Jump to content

Menu

Removed; thanks, all! <3


Recommended Posts

Mercy, there is no way to win with this. I am going through this at my church, too. I am so sorry. I do understand small churching and what a disappointment it is when a large family leaves a small church. It is good they're taking their extreme views out of the equation. I hope you guys can get back to the heart of worship.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hugs, Mercy.

Some people feel that piece of cloth is their hill to die in front of. It symbolizes something for them -- their freedom to choose perhaps.

The people made their decision & it would likely have been made regardless of your requirement. I suggest continuing to pray. For them, your church, and this country. Big hugs for your sadness, upsetness, and worry.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s not just you. This stuff is happening in just about every church out there. A dear friend of mine who is heavily involved in her little church had the opposite happen. She is pro-mask due to health concerns in her family and it was made clear to her family that the church is anti-mask. My friend and her family cannot attend until this is all over, due to medical concerns. She and her husband led the music ministry and their 4 kids make up most of the youth, so them not being there is a big deal. They aren’t skipping church to make some statement, but there’s really nothing else they can do, since they must rely on others to mask to protect them, and the others won’t mask. They are heartbroken and feeling a bit jaded right now.

It’s happening in so many places and playing out in so many different ways. I’m so sorry that this has hurt you.

Edited by Garga
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3
  • Sad 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand it either.  I just had someone I know go on a rant about a restaurant where the host wouldn't answer a question until she put on a mask.  So she left.  And ranted on FB.  And had dozens of people agree with her.  Is the news on the right really so much different than the news for us over here in the center because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND.  Someone else I know who lives in the same area was making a similar plea for the re-election of her favorite politician and 20% of her argument was economics, and the rest had to do with prayer and conspiracy theories.  I don't get it.  She's known at least two people close to her to be in the ICU with Covid.  I don't understand how educated women with graduate degrees who are typically very rational can all come to the conclusion that masks are the enemy and the media is the problem.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh. I'm really sorry 😞 . 

This stuff is really tearing apart communities. I don't know if we'll be able to go back to our homeschooling center, because one of the most involved people there right now is anti-masking (and also still mad at me for being pro-masking and social distancing.) I hate what this is doing to us. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
  • Sad 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I don’t get all the nastiness with masking.  We have anti maskers here who seem to go out of there way to “educate/reform” people and businesses who comply with the mask mandate.  It is like it is some kind of special mission.  

 

 

I've seen that too.  One person on FB shared a photo that was supposed to show how "nasty"/germy masks were because of how discolored the mask was.  However, the mask was very clearly covered with makeup.  Skipping makeup would have solved their problem completely but of course then they wouldn't have "proof" about how terrible masks were.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 6
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I had someone post on FB that putting a mask on a child is child abuse.  Sigh.  I also got into a heated discussion with someone who is generally logical and rational about loss of freedoms and how stupid masks are because there is no way they can work and everyone just wears dirty ones from the floor of their car anyways. So yeah it's lots of fun over here. 

  • Sad 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so sorry to hear this. This isn't your fault. You were the one who wanted to follow standard recommended medical procedures. This is akin to requiring seatbelts. They are the ones with the problem. I've already written on this forum about all of the personal relationships we lost over COVID and masking so I completely understand what you are going through. 

I know it hurts like hell but you are better off without people like this in your life. 

((hugs))

People suck...that is all. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

I had someone post on FB that putting a mask on a child is child abuse.  Sigh.  I also got into a heated discussion with someone who is generally logical and rational about loss of freedoms and how stupid masks are because there is no way they can work and everyone just wears dirty ones from the floor of their car anyways. So yeah it's lots of fun over here. 

We know people who believe that requiring kids to wear masks is literally demonic. They are keeping their kids home from school to avoid masks because some obscure monk in Greece says masks are evil. 

  • Confused 5
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get it either. It's just not that big a deal to wear a mask. I understand all the things others are saying here, but it's truly baffling to me. I'm so sorry. Maybe your church will attract families who see that you're all taking their physical wellbeing as seriously as their spiritual wellbeing. I think this is one of those things that is realigning people and groups in new ways.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You are not alone Mercy!  I don't get i either.  It's just a piece of cloth!  I mean I understand that there are some kids out there who are sensitive to cloth / touch and probably can't wear a mask.  But if it will save other people from going to the hospital, then so be it.  I will wear a mask. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don't understand it either.  I just had someone I know go on a rant about a restaurant where the host wouldn't answer a question until she put on a mask.  So she left.  And ranted on FB.  And had dozens of people agree with her.  Is the news on the right really so much different than the news for us over here in the center because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND.  Someone else I know who lives in the same area was making a similar plea for the re-election of her favorite politician and 20% of her argument was economics, and the rest had to do with prayer and conspiracy theories.  I don't get it.  She's known at least two people close to her to be in the ICU with Covid.  I don't understand how educated women with graduate degrees who are typically very rational can all come to the conclusion that masks are the enemy and the media is the problem.

I don't get it at all.  I wear masks and so do lots of Republicans I know.  My Republican Gov keeps re-issuing mask orders and my Rep mayor issued a mask order 2 weeks before here.

As to our church, I hadn't been attending, just watching on YouTube.  Since they have opened up the nursery and Sunday school for the littles who do not wear masks and kids can be superspreaders even with no symptoms, I won't be attending until we have vaccines or it has mutated to a much milder form or much more effective and available treatments.

Mercy, I am sorry that this has happened at your church.

 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

My Republican Gov keeps re-issuing mask orders

Same! He is doing a good job overall. But churches are unfortunately exempt.

Edited by MercyA
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with others -- try not to take it personally.  It sounds like others were requiring it too.  Also, it sounds like the family is planning to return, so it's not permanent.

I have to say though that even reading that made me burn inside.  WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?  I mean, even if we find out that masks are only 10% effective, won't we be glad that we at least tried to do the right thing and hopefully saved a few lives?  

The whole message of God is to love one another, and to love one another unselfishly.  That means it might not be what our first instincts want.  Wearing a mask for 1 -2 hours in church is so extremely simple.  It's nothing.   I truly do not understand why people make it something.

Our church cannot even meet in person yet...  Our area has way too high numbers.  I don't see that happening until next spring or summer!  The fact that your church is able to meet in person is wonderful!  

All that said, have you offered to not teach if you think it goes against the majority of the church's current opinions?  (I believe in the past you said you did, but I'm not sure.)  If your entire church is anti-mask except you (although it doesn't seem to be that way), then I suppose you and your family could take a leave of absence for awhile.  Not in a tit for tat way, but in a loving way.  (I can't imagine you doing it any other way, anyway!)

I guess I would try and pray away my anger and frustration.  (Which I would definitely have a lot of in your situation!)  People are the way they are because of their life experiences and their genetics.  They believe they're doing the right thing.  I think we can and should work to replace our anger with compassion (which is hard!), while still kindly yet confidently holding on to what we believe is the right and loving and reasonable position to take.   I might even send the family a card and tell them that you miss them and look forward to their return.

I'm so grateful that our church is handling the pandemic the way it does.  But, I've also learned from some of my friends that other Christians have a leftover fear of the government taking away their right to worship the God whom they love.  That fear turns into something that feels more like arrogance and selfishness, and I think that's what's so hard.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is happening all over the place.  I'm so sorry you are struggling with this.  It seems to be a common issue right now that many groups and churches are dealing with.  We haven't been to Mass since March and I miss it greatly.  I'm actually not sure what the policy is for my church.  I'm pretty sure they are enforcing masking but going to large gatherings inside is out of my comfort zone even with masks so we have stayed away.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m sorry it’s so frustrating.  We had this conversation with friends at church over singing/non singing and one of my friends whose people smart said really we are all dealing with so much change and some of us deal with it better than others.  Some people really aren’t able to cope with the amount of change being expected of them right now.  That made a tonne of sense to me and helped me to be a bit more patient I hope.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh. I am so sorry. I do not get it either. Here, we have ppl screaming that requiring kids to wear masks is causing an enormous PANDAS outbreak in pretty much all schools across the country. Strep is rampant and alllllll these kids are so bad they’re developing PANDAS. Not to mention the suffocated brain cells from the extreme lack of oxygen. 😐😑😐😑😐😑

I cannot roll my eyes hard enough. Just cannot. 

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I've seen that too.  One person on FB shared a photo that was supposed to show how "nasty"/germy masks were because of how discolored the mask was.  However, the mask was very clearly covered with makeup.  Skipping makeup would have solved their problem completely but of course then they wouldn't have "proof" about how terrible masks were.

I've had people say this to me - that they don't want their kids to wear masks because they get gross.    I did point out to one that you are supposed to wash them every so often.  🤨

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

And ((((Mercy))).   I've been so surprised at the vitriol some people seem to spew about masks.  To me it's such a minor thing but people act like you are holding them at gunpoint or want to pour acid on them.  I don't get it.   

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am so sorry. We live in an area that is heavily anti-mask but our Catholic church has taken a hard line. No entry without a mask and serious distancing. Usher meets you at the door and they seat you, and they dismiss you row by row to keep people from huddling up. It's a big change. But, I am so thankful for the hard line because there is no mask judgement. No one is going to make any assumptions about you as a person because you wear a mask other than that you wanted to attend church enough to wear one. 

I am sure some people feel like it is overkill but I was just telling someone yesterday that I am so thankful our pastor took a hard stand. It removes all the controversy and judgement. It is the only place I go that it is just easy. 

I am sorry things are so hard. I have mask issues in every other area of life and it is just so tiresome. Dealing with it at church is extra sad. 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, easypeasy said:

Ugh. I am so sorry. I do not get it either. Here, we have ppl screaming that requiring kids to wear masks is causing an enormous PANDAS outbreak in pretty much all schools across the country. Strep is rampant and alllllll these kids are so bad they’re developing PANDAS. Not to mention the suffocated brain cells from the extreme lack of oxygen. 😐😑😐😑😐😑

I cannot roll my eyes hard enough. Just cannot. 

Wait, what?? How are masks causing pandas? My kid has PANDAS and he will wear a mask when we go anywhere! 

Only thing I can think of is irritation causing skin infection, from the mask...but you could fix that by washing the darn things, and having plenty. 

Crazy people. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to ask all the people thinking masks don't work if they agree that covering one's mouth/nose when they sneeze or cough is a good idea. If so, well, that's the SAME principal that masks work on! Catching droplets so they don't spread to others! It's that simple!

And in the churches, I just shake my head at the idea that churches can't tell you what to do. Um...since the 10 commandments they have been doing that! 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You are not alone! Same situation here: small church, anti-maskers refusing to attend,  lost relationships. Dh is the pastor.  He's struggling. We're struggling .

  • Sad 11
Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Wait, what?? How are masks causing pandas? My kid has PANDAS and he will wear a mask when we go anywhere! 

Only thing I can think of is irritation causing skin infection, from the mask...but you could fix that by washing the darn things, and having plenty. 

Crazy people. 

Because wearing it causes low oxygen levels and that causes cancer and other illnesses.  And everyone who is smart knows about how low oxygen causes cancer and toxicity poisoning.  And wearing a mask is not holistic.  It promotes antibiotics overuse.  Plus, it is a Petri dish.  
 

I actually got kicked out of a group recently for using science on some of these.  Really, if your oxygen levels are on the low 80s, it isn’t the mask.  And if you washed the mask, no Petri dish.  

  • Like 1
  • Confused 5
  • Sad 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really sorry, Mercy.

We attended an outdoors graduation recognition ceremony at our church in May, because DD18's school graduation had been postponed, and we didn't know if there would be one. In advance, the youth pastor sent out the precautions they would take, and the expectations for those who would attend and promised it would be a safe environment. The church did not follow the guidelines that they said they would; the families did not follow the things they were meant to do with social distancing; and we waited for a long time for the crowds to disperse, so that we could go take a family picture in the designated photo spot, but people just stood around in large groups chatting, while graduates hugged and took pictures together. Finally we just left, and I cried in the car.

After that, I couldn't trust that my church would follow their own guidance, so we have been watching the services online. Supposedly, they are following the state's mask mandate, but whenever I see the crowd, there are so many people who are unmasked.

I started to wonder if we should allow our kids to go back to youth group, because the messages sent out by the youth ministry promise they are doing things safely. Then last week, I was at the church building for the first time since March, and I was able to see into the youth area through a window. I could only see a small group of four teen girls, but none of them was masked.

It makes me so sad. Our pastor has said some things from the pulpit that reveal that he has anti-masking views. He has not gone on and on about it, but it's easy to infer his point of view.

It's a really dumb thing for this to be dividing Christian communities. People have become firmly entrenched in their opinions, even though there is no scriptural support for being against masks.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really sorry you're caught up in that.  How disheartening. 

If you're interested in hearing an encouraging sermon by our pastor about trusting the "experts," I can forward it to you.  🙂 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, MercyA said:

Same! He is doing a good job overall. But churches are unfortunately exempt.

It is a she.  And although in the primary I didn\t vote for her (my fantastic mayor was running too), her continued governance has been impressive, even though she is suffering from lung cancer.  Like when some big pot of money was given to our state, I can't remember if it was for COVID relief like medical stuff or just to shore up the state's economy and budget,   she totally knocked down the legislature plan to use it to build a new capitol building and other stupid stuff and took the money and used it to help get internet in places, PPE, give grants to restaurants and other businesses, help the volunteer fire departments with their COVID issues, etc.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KeriJ said:

You are not alone! Same situation here: small church, anti-maskers refusing to attend,  lost relationships. Dh is the pastor.  He's struggling. We're struggling .

I'm so sorry. I have been praying dilegently for our pastor and elders. I will add you to my prayers this morning. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I'm really sorry, Mercy.

We attended an outdoors graduation recognition ceremony at our church in May, because DD18's school graduation had been postponed, and we didn't know if there would be one. In advance, the youth pastor sent out the precautions they would take, and the expectations for those who would attend and promised it would be a safe environment. The church did not follow the guidelines that they said they would; the families did not follow the things they were meant to do with social distancing; and we waited for a long time for the crowds to disperse, so that we could go take a family picture in the designated photo spot, but people just stood around in large groups chatting, while graduates hugged and took pictures together. Finally we just left, and I cried in the car.

After that, I couldn't trust that my church would follow their own guidance, so we have been watching the services online. Supposedly, they are following the state's mask mandate, but whenever I see the crowd, there are so many people who are unmasked.

I started to wonder if we should allow our kids to go back to youth group, because the messages sent out by the youth ministry promise they are doing things safely. Then last week, I was at the church building for the first time since March, and I was able to see into the youth area through a window. I could only see a small group of four teen girls, but none of them was masked.

It makes me so sad. Our pastor has said some things from the pulpit that reveal that he has anti-masking views. He has not gone on and on about it, but it's easy to infer his point of view.

It's a really dumb thing for this to be dividing Christian communities. People have become firmly entrenched in their opinions, even though there is no scriptural support for being against masks.

I am memorizing 1 Peter 2:9-16 so I can more easily give a reason as to why I wear a mask, straight from the scripture.

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m sorry it’s so frustrating.  We had this conversation with friends at church over singing/non singing and one of my friends whose people smart said really we are all dealing with so much change and some of us deal with it better than others.  Some people really aren’t able to cope with the amount of change being expected of them right now.  That made a tonne of sense to me and helped me to be a bit more patient I hope.  

Other than COVID, the not singing and the much less music (at the service we would go to, normally their were 4 or 5 hymns and responses we sang, there would be non-sung organ or harp opening and closing, sometimes there would be bell choir, etc.) is part of the reason I am not in church.  I am ADHD and love music and feel much closer to God during the hymns or music, than during most other parts of the service.  And I don't think the church is doing communion though we were doing it on the online service at home.

  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

If it wasn't the state law/mandate and you compelled it as the "right thing", then you were essentially trying to decide the right thing for another family. So it's sad that it happened but predictable. I would have been pissed if my dc were in that class and it wasn't the state law/mandate and you mandated it to decide for us. In the same way, I'm pissed that our church can't tell their people to follow the state mandate. Of course you can take that one step farther and say our governor should not have mandated it for churches, that he didn't have the right to do that. Other states, even draconian ones like MI, have not mandated it in churches while mandating them otherwise. 

I think just let it go. They've said they'll come back when this blows over, and a lot of people are saying that. If the church sanctioned your behavior, then ultimately the responsibility lies with them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so sorry you are going through this. You are generous to try and make it work.

Mixed messaging is particularly difficult and policing a church for compliance is a nightmare. Because of this many churches are closed, ministers are exhausted. They are used to juggling and being able to accommodate various opinions. This just doesn't work with opinions about Covid.

We are only open for one Sunday service, with masking and distancing mandatory, and no singing. Only 1/4 of the parish choose to attend. Our online service is run out of a smaller chapel with music and singing so folks at home can sing along and have a more intimate online experience. This only works because dh, the priest is also a musician as well as our adult children. It's still difficult. People wanting to open the church for their particular group,  which they say will follow all the rules, haha, but seem to forget the needs if all the groups opened up. It's really hard. And I'm about done with crazy talk. Fortunately our parents are happy with facebook live Sunday School before the online service. And they are a mix of families who chose to have their children follow the online program and those that go in person. We also have a daily Evening Prayer and midweek service online. More people are attending the extra services than when we held them in the church building. 

My Catholic friend has found that going to weekday mass is the answer. Very few people attend and are masked. 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

If it wasn't the state law/mandate and you compelled it as the "right thing", then you were essentially trying to decide the right thing for another family. So it's sad that it happened but predictable. I would have been pissed if my dc were in that class and it wasn't the state law/mandate and you mandated it to decide for us. .

A sunday school or church should only require that which is mandated by law, or you will be pissed? So say, having a rule that you have to raise your hand before speaking? That's not mandated by law, but required by the teacher, so you'd be angry? 

Churches have always had more "rules" than the state. 

And she wasn't mandating what is right for them, but what was safe for HER, as the teacher, and safe for others in the class. 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

My family is not going until Covid and masks are over, because there are too many elderly people in church, and masks alone are not enough to protect them, or at least that's what my heart is telling me.

My family is interacting with all kinds of people, so they should not be putting elderly people at risk by going to church.

I hope our church folks don't think I'm just being an a$$hole.  I have explained my reasons to one pastor and to the lady who called to see how we're doing.  I'll continue to send my annual donation in late December.  But I'm not going to be guilt tripped into bringing my kids to church at a time like this.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not alone! Went to outdoor church a couple of times and it was ok.  Then they moved inside.  Which I was not comfortable with or happy about.  The Pastor swore people were following the rules etc.  So I agreed to try.  We  wore our good masks.  It was so bad. 

Yes all the seats in service were in family groups at least 6 feet apart.  But everyone was crowded in the small lobby talking and hugging.  They had a table with like 4 people handing out operation Christmas boxes making it even more crowded and interactive.

We have a mask mandate they aren't supposed to allow entry period according to the mandate.  The church has decided wearen't supposed to ask why someone isn't masking and assume they have a disability.  So masking was only about 80%.  I was very uncomfortable and left early.    

It could be done safely.  They could have had the Christmas boxes line the other hallway and and have people grab them and exit that way.  The pastor gave a simple explanation and their were pamphlets plus we've done it every year.  No one had to hand them to people.  

Instead of having a greeter shake peoples hands and hold the door open.  They could have had a waiting area outside and had the greeter let families one at a time and find their seats.  They could release families one by one.  If people chose to socialize once they are outside that's on them.  

It's so frustrating because they are so insistent that showing up in person is soooo important but than they aren't being as safe as possible.  

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

If it wasn't the state law/mandate and you compelled it as the "right thing", then you were essentially trying to decide the right thing for another family. So it's sad that it happened but predictable. I would have been pissed if my dc were in that class and it wasn't the state law/mandate and you mandated it to decide for us. In the same way, I'm pissed that our church can't tell their people to follow the state mandate. Of course you can take that one step farther and say our governor should not have mandated it for churches, that he didn't have the right to do that. Other states, even draconian ones like MI, have not mandated it in churches while mandating them otherwise. 

I think just let it go. They've said they'll come back when this blows over, and a lot of people are saying that. If the church sanctioned your behavior, then ultimately the responsibility lies with them.

I'm confused. Why does a teacher not have the right to decide on behavior in her classroom? That's essentially what you are saying here. The state does not mandate how children are supposed to behave in class. Does that mean that Mercy couldn't enforce behavior rules? What about a dress code? 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

A sunday school or church should only require that which is mandated by law, or you will be pissed? So say, having a rule that you have to raise your hand before speaking? That's not mandated by law, but required by the teacher, so you'd be angry? 

Churches have always had more "rules" than the state. 

And she wasn't mandating what is right for them, but what was safe for HER, as the teacher, and safe for others in the class. 

Personally, I’m very impressed that Mercy is standing up for her values...

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Heartwood said:

I read it as being frustrated with going above and beyond a health mandate/law (e.g. requiring a full body suit to attend class).

Except exempting churches is not in any way scientific. Viruses aren’t very pious 😉 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t for the life of me figure out why churches are exempt. So thankful our leaders in my faith are listening to the science. We are still on zoom and expect to be for a long time. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • MercyA changed the title to Removed; thanks, all! <3

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...