Experience with the Now! Program?

[warriormom]

Anyone have experience with the Now! Program? PLEASE SHARE! My dyslexia professional friends say that it is not evidence-based. Dr. Conway (of NOW! and The Morris Center) states that OG is not evidence-based and his program was tested through double blind peer-reviewed research. My friend whose mom is a neuropsychologist said it was not the highest level of research backing. They state that Lindamood-bell is the only program really backed by solid research. 

Here is the link for the NOW! Program: http://nowprograms.net/ . What really got my attention is that the ladies from Alabama Game Changers are opening The Morris Center? https://alabamagamechangers.org/agc/ Here is the original Morris Center in Florida: http://themorriscenter.com/

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by warriormom
add in a link for morris center

[PeterPan]

17 hours ago, warriormom said:

My friend whose mom is a neuropsychologist said it was not the highest level of research backing.

When people beat around the bush like that, sometimes they are hiding how strongly they feel about it.

I found a pdf by Conway on his NOW approach and am trying to read through it. It's so much blather, I haven't gotten to anything concrete yet.

Have you considered just buying an accessible OG product you can implement yourself? How old is the dc you're attempting to work with? 

I tried to review your old posts, and I saw a long list of things (ADHD, SLDs, hypotonia, etc.). Have those been combined into a more global diagnosis like ASD? Sometimes that happens. I think sometimes when your gut is saying an answer (like OG with a tutor) is incomplete, that it's reflecting the complexity of the situation, not whether OG is right for some kids.

So no, OG alone was not adequate to get my ds "reading". Reading, if you speak to any reading expert, has multiple components. Sometimes what happens is a provider/tutor/system is targeting these kids who have *more* going on. I agree, reading can have *more than phonological processing* as an issue for some kids. 

But when you ask what the ANSWER to that is, I'm not going to say buy in on one guy who slams everyone else. It's more going to be identify the components, build a team, tackle the components. So for my ds, we needed syntax work. That should be an SLP, but good luck finding someone, which means I've been stuck with it. There are the metalinguistic issues, etc. (inferences, vocabulary, blah blah). I've got an SLP hitting those. There is prosody/fluency, and I'm taking my ds for an audiology eval to dig in on that a bit as the things I tried that were more reading specific didn't click. Some kids also have vision issues, midline issues, and need to see a developmental optometrist. My ds had language delay issues, where words didn't mean things, spelling and parts of words didn't mean things. That was specific to his ASD. And he has behavior issues due to his ASD that require significant support. Right now, he can read for 10-20 minutes IF he has me sitting right there, alternating lines with him, helping him stay calm. That's his ASD that requires significant support.

So IF it's strictly phonological processing (the strict definition of dyslexia) then that's absurd to knock OG. There are some newer programs and systems that *build* and will acknowledge OG but say they've stood on the OG shoulders and gone further. SPELL -LINKS is there. Constructivist approaches. But they don't diss OG. And if more is going on, obviously you have more to deal with. 

I would be cautious. Anything great he can do, you should be able to do yourself. When you look at the materials yourself, do they make sense? 

[PeterPan]

http://nowprograms.net/files/IDA_Anecdotal-Support-for-a-Dyslexia-Treatment-Method_Conway_12-2017.pdf  His doc. 

His stuff is old. Are you wanting to go to his school? He's trying to cite Kilpatrick's book and I haven't read Kilpatrick. I know he hangs with the SPELL-LINKS people and is in some of that movement to move on to other programs that *build* on it. But this guy (Conway) predates those programs, meaning Conway is citing a comment with a relative comparison of NEWER programs to OG and saying it applies to his antique program.

Yeah, I see nothing here. He divulges nothing about his program, and the things he claims are basically true about ALL good approaches right now. 

Lots of emotion, no information.

What is your situation, what is the issue, and what intervention do you need? If you were aware of the SLDs in 2016, why are you now looking for reading intervention in 2020?? Is this a different, younger dc or did the intervention you tried fail?

Edited October 16, 2020 by PeterPan

[sss]

Hi there,  I'm also looking into this program and I'm wondering if you have an update? Did you get any more information that was helpful? What did you decide ultimately.  I know the person responding above was less than positive but I just keep finding positive reviews from parents so I'm curious.  Not sure you'll even see this since this thread is old but worth a shot! 

[PeterPan]

On 4/9/2021 at 11:11 AM, sss said:

 I know the person responding above was less than positive but I just keep finding positive reviews from parents so I'm curious.

I have no issues with using LMB products, which is what it appears he is doing, presumably in some modified/adapted fashion since he's not listing the programs. But if you look at how he's describing each program, it's LMB.

http://www.nowprograms.com/programs/now-foundations/  he's clearly describing LIPS here. I've used it, like it, recommend it. https://ganderpublishing.com/pages/lips-overview

http://www.nowprograms.com/programs/now-mental-imagery/  This is clearly https://ganderpublishing.com/pages/visualizing-and-verbalizing-overview

http://www.nowprograms.com/programs/now-math-concept-imagery/  is clearly https://ganderpublishing.com/pages/on-cloud-nine-math-overview 

http://www.nowprograms.com/programs/now-grammar-and-writing/ This I'm a little less clear on. From the description it sounds like he's using something like https://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-reviews-core-curricula/composition-and-grammar/ungraded-multi-level-resources-grammar/winston-grammar  plus something else for the composition, not sure. https://lindamoodbell.com/comprehension/parent-tips-imagery-language-connection-writing  explains how LMB envisions visualization leading to writing and it's kind of vague. Might be more helpful to work on actual narrative language issues, but that would be materials from a different company.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/timconwayphdthemorriscenter  Here's his linked in, and you can see he worked with LMB, helped develop some of the materials, etc. He's clearly taking the ideas and running with them. 

http://nowprograms.net/files/IDA_Anecdotal-Support-for-a-Dyslexia-Treatment-Method_Conway_12-2017.pdf  This is some of what I was saying was jibberish. He discloses nothing, and reality is that people doing OG are USING the LMB programs as well. It's not like they're doing OG and NOT working on visualization, NOT working on phonological processing. On the lists I hang on, people using OG *are* in fact using LIPS and V/V. The only people doing reading intervention and NOT working properly and thoroughly are in the ps system, sorry. So that's picking some kind of ghost fight and getting really theoretical to complain OG is not something everyone knows it is not. OG does not hit phonological processing adequately on it's own and does not hit visualization on its own, no joke.

So if you want those programs, you can buy them and do them yourself. If you want to hire a tutor through him to do his version of those programs, do it. No issues. The programs are fine. But make sure you realize how much it's going to cost before you get in and make sure you sort out whether you'd rather do it yourself. This is a homeschooling list, so the question here is what we can do ourselves. You can buy any of those programs for about the cost of 1 session of 1:1 tutoring through his company and do it yourself. Or pay his company. I'm sure his services are fine. But is the guy obfuscating and hiding all that and riding on your emotions and someone WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO HELP YOUR CHILD? Of course he is. 

So it's just money. As long as the intervention gets done, that's all that matters. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by PeterPan

[Davidica]

On 10/16/2020 at 12:06 PM, PeterPan said:

When people beat around the bush like that, sometimes they are hiding how strongly they feel about it.

I found a pdf by Conway on his NOW approach and am trying to read through it. It's so much blather, I haven't gotten to anything concrete yet.

Have you considered just buying an accessible OG product you can implement yourself? How old is the dc you're attempting to work with? 

I tried to review your old posts, and I saw a long list of things (ADHD, SLDs, hypotonia, etc.). Have those been combined into a more global diagnosis like ASD? Sometimes that happens. I think sometimes when your gut is saying an answer (like OG with a tutor) is incomplete, that it's reflecting the complexity of the situation, not whether OG is right for some kids.

So no, OG alone was not adequate to get my ds "reading". Reading, if you speak to any reading expert, has multiple components. Sometimes what happens is a provider/tutor/system is targeting these kids who have *more* going on. I agree, reading can have *more than phonological processing* as an issue for some kids. 

But when you ask what the ANSWER to that is, I'm not going to say buy in on one guy who slams everyone else. It's more going to be identify the components, build a team, tackle the components. So for my ds, we needed syntax work. That should be an SLP, but good luck finding someone, which means I've been stuck with it. There are the metalinguistic issues, etc. (inferences, vocabulary, blah blah). I've got an SLP hitting those. There is prosody/fluency, and I'm taking my ds for an audiology eval to dig in on that a bit as the things I tried that were more reading specific didn't click. Some kids also have vision issues, midline issues, and need to see a developmental optometrist. My ds had language delay issues, where words didn't mean things, spelling and parts of words didn't mean things. That was specific to his ASD. And he has behavior issues due to his ASD that require significant support. Right now, he can read for 10-20 minutes IF he has me sitting right there, alternating lines with him, helping him stay calm. That's his ASD that requires significant support.

So IF it's strictly phonological processing (the strict definition of dyslexia) then that's absurd to knock OG. There are some newer programs and systems that *build* and will acknowledge OG but say they've stood on the OG shoulders and gone further. SPELL -LINKS is there. Constructivist approaches. But they don't diss OG. And if more is going on, obviously you have more to deal with. 

I would be cautious. Anything great he can do, you should be able to do yourself. When you look at the materials yourself, do they make sense?