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teachermom2834
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2 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

We've joined the local Catholic co-op although none of the classes or groups are meeting yet. 

I have to ask the reverse question. I keep getting all kinds of political emails from this co-op message board but the candidate they support would not be allowed to join the co-op. His wife might be allowed because she's Catholic but I believe their marriage is irregular which might prevent her from being able to join. 

But I keep getting emails saying that it's a mortal sin to not vote for this guy. 

I do not think you are going to enjoy this co-op! 

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1 hour ago, teachermom2834 said:

actually think anyone that knows me well would be happy for me just to sign their paper and join their co-op because I am nice and hard working and share their conservative values. But they think I am the exception. One of the good Catholics like ACB. But they need to keep their rules to keep the bad ones out. 

This bothers me more than I can say. 

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23 hours ago, Ellie said:

The use of the term "evangelicals" always confuses me, especially now that I have returned to the Catholic Church. 🙂 I assume you mean Protestants, or, as I like to say, non-Catholic Christians. I don't know which group of non-Catholic Christians would be included in the term "evangelical," or even "fundamental," because shouldn't all Christians be evangelical and fundamental?

Back in the day when I was a non-Catholic Christian, some of the groups I was familiar with would not have been comfortable allowing Catholics to participate. Some had statements of faith which would have excluded most Catholics, usually a statement about the Bible being the final authority in all matters. I saw a well-established support group fall apart because of some Catholic vs non-Catholic issues that were terribly mishandled by the leader. It was very sad. 😞  And I have apologized to my Catholic homeschool friends for any part I might have played in that (they are not the ones involved in that situation, but I cannot apologize to those people; I can only apologize to the ones I know now); they were gracious and said that people have a right to associate with whoever they want to associate with, and if a group of homeschoolers prefers to associate only with others of like mind, well, that's fine. There's nothing that prevents Catholic homeschoolers from doing their own support groups and co-ops and whatnot.

But you know, this kind of thing has been going on since the Reformation.

Same.  I’m not religious, but I was raised in a church with EVANGELICAL right in it’s name, and it was nothing like what I think of when people refer to “evangelicals” today.  Most of my friends were Catholic and Jewish and we all participated in everybody’s everything.

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5 hours ago, DorothyNJ said:

Most of the coops around here that label themselves "Christian" have Statements of Faith that exclude Catholics, Methodists, anyone who isn't young-earth, etc.  But the way they are worded, a quick reading makes people feel welcome.  I only understand what is really meant by reading about SOF on here.   I don't know why they don't just spell it out in clear English.  I know at least one Catholic who joined thinking she'd be welcome and then was excluded.  

That sounds very contradictory.  It sounds like "a quick reading makes people THINK they'll be welcomed".

I've a friend who, after divorcing, married a "nice" christian man.  She soon learned, he married her thinking he'd save her from her LDS faith. When she held her ground, he started attacking her.  He was NOT a "nice" man.

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23 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I've always been under the impression "evangelical" is a far more narrow term than "just" protestants (which is a very large and diverse group) as a body. (my maternal grandmother was one when she was younger - but eventually only watched televangelists on TV.)  And it's not just Catholics they exclude.  It seems to be those who exclude - exclude everyone who doesn't meet their own very narrow definition of what makes a Christian.  I live in a major metro in the PNW - but I've heard some eye raising things from evangelicals, starting as far  back as when I was in jr high.  my dd got it in 2nd grade when some evangelical kid told her she was going to hell unless she repented.   I believe it was a more extreme family as they pulled their kids to send them to an evangelical private school.)

A LDS family moved to the southern bible belt, and wrote an article on their experience.  If you weren't an evangelical - you had no  social life. Even kids at school wouldn't play with you.  So - they started attending the 'E" church weekly pot lucks, etc.  Their kids even participated in their scripture mastery (or whatever they called it.) sponsored by the local church.  They just didn't go to church with them on Sunday.  The ministers started praising them because of how much they participated in the activities that supported their smaller town.  What started off as being excluded, slowly changed to where they were part of the group - even though they didn't go to church with them on Sunday.  When some traveling preacher came through town to do a dog and pony about how terrible and unchristian LDS are - the evangelical ministers threw him out.  (compare this to a number of years ago - a group of evangelicals went to SLC to go door to door to tell LDS how unchristian they were and they needed to repent.)

 

eta: I recall similar conversation before - and there were some mainline protestants (I think one was Methodist.  My mother briefly attended a Methodist church as a teen - and my evangelical grandmother flipped her lid.)  that posted who were not allowed in evangelical homeschool groups.  Evangelical most definitely does not = protestant.  That's like saying rectangles = squares.  all rectangles are squares, but not all squares are rectangles.

See, I don't think there's a point in try to evaluate how narrow or how broad someone's faith is. I think that term is used more by those outside the faith than by those in the faith, if you see what I mean. Also, 30 years ago, I was more likely to hear the term "fundamentalist" than "evangelical" to describe those who were more legalistic than the norm.

I can understand why the LDS family had problems, and it wasn't because of "evangelical." Most *Protestants* would consider LDS to be a cult and so would not welcome an LDS family into their activities (I'm not making judgements here; I'm just saying what I believe would have been the reason they were not welcome). There is a deep, fundamental difference between LDS theology and Catholic as well as Protestant theology, which is one of the reasons that the Catholic Church does not accept LDS baptisms.

I would expect all people of faith to be "evangelical." But there are no set parameters of what makes a non-Catholic Christian "evangelical."

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6 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

That sounds very contradictory.  It sounds like "a quick reading makes people THINK they'll be welcomed".

I've a friend who, after divorcing, married a "nice" christian man.  She soon learned, he married her thinking he'd save her from her LDS faith. When she held her ground, he started attacking her.  He was NOT a "nice" man.

What a creeper

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2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

A dear old lady friend of mine who is Baptist but very loving and accepting of me said about ACB “she is Catholic but if you read about her not really.”

She meant it as a compliment 😂 

 

For some reason that makes me think of Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof telling the Constable he should have been a Jew.  The constable laughs, and thinks Tevye is making a joke.

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6 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

My grandmother was Eastern Orthodox, from Slovakia, and her daughter converted to a Independent Fundamental Baptistry 1611 KJV only church as a young adult. It made for, um, some very interesting family get togethers, especially around holidays.  I grew up celebrating Normal Easter and Non Normal Easter lol.

in response to OP’s question, I don’t know what I am, but I grew up evangelical.  But I don’t buy into the whole Catholics aren’t Christians thing.  I believe religion is personal and between you and God, not you and the name of your church. 

What's the difference- other than dates?  Just interested in information to learn.

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6 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

So the folks in my circle of acquaintance have decided that I, as a Catholic, am not a Christian. They have also decided that ACB, a professing Catholic, is a Christian, so she must not “really” be Catholic. OK...got it. I’ll just stay home and have friends on the internet 😂

 

There are perks to living in an irreligious area.  Most  people dont' care too much.  (there are a couple big evangelical megachurches that think everyone who doesn't believe what they do will go to hell.  My sil's mil attended one.  It caused a lot of friction.  at least things got better over the years.) 

I have had my brother telling me why my faith is wrong - his seventh-day adventist friend tells him what LDS believe.  The last time he broached the subject with me, I nearly (literally) fell on the floor laughing so hard at the absurdity of the question.   After all, his seventh-day adventist friend had assured him it was true.

My last conversation with my mother was her asking me one more time what LDS believe -  she wanted to counter the crap my brother was pushing at her.  (I found the pages he'd demanded she read when i was cleaning out her apartment. It was horrible.)   For a last conversation, I'm grateful it was a positive one, as I expressed my love for her and my firm belief that God loved her and wanted her to be happy.

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9 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

Dates was the main thing, but Orthodox Christians have a lot more pomp and circumstance than Wesleyans do.  We called Grandma’s Easter Non Normal Easter because it was a different day than everyone else we know. Plus there’s a midnight service, IIRC, and it was a lot more fun than Normal Easter.

I've watched Joanna Rants as one of my "spanish" channels.  (language warning) More about culture.  One of her rants is how americans celebrate Christmas.  One day?  that's all?   What about ___?  what about ___?   in Columbia how it starts in early Dec. and goes to ephiphany! . . . Btw, she's Jewish.  (people dont' believe she's latina because she's also red headed and blue eyed.)

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59 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

We've joined the local Catholic co-op although none of the classes or groups are meeting yet. 

I have to ask the reverse question. I keep getting all kinds of political emails from this co-op message board but the candidate they support would not be allowed to join the co-op. His wife might be allowed because she's Catholic but I believe their marriage is irregular which might prevent her from being able to join. 

But I keep getting emails saying that it's a mortal sin to not vote for this guy. 

It sounds like they are very misinformed about the teachings of the Catholic Church and guidance on voting.

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2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I have never heard even super hard core Catholics say non-Catholics aren’t Christian. Now, they absolutely would say the non-Catholic definitely had their facts wrong but not that they fell outside Christianity. I absolutely believe you that this happened. Just saying I have never heard it. I was a homeschool mom before I realized that Catholics aren’t Christians to some people. It never occurred to me.

Generally the biggest target of scorn from the super judgy Catholics is the other Catholics that aren’t good enough for them 🙁 They don’t normally hold non-Catholic Christians to Catholic standards the way they do other Catholics.

This is very true in my experience as a former practicing Catholic for twenty five years. My Catholic mom and her Catholic friends refer to the “super judgy” Catholics as Catholics who think they are more Catholic than the pope. I’ve seen some of this on the boards here at times. And for my Catholic friends and relatives, it often arises in political conversations.

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17 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I've watched Joanna Rants as one of my "spanish" channels.  (language warning) More about culture.  One of her rants is how americans celebrate Christmas.  One day?  that's all?   What about ___?  what about ___?   in Columbia how it starts in early Dec. and goes to ephiphany! . . . Btw, she's Jewish.  (people dont' believe she's latina because she's also red headed and blue eyed.)

It's not one day! You can listen to Rock Around the Christmas tree, eat sugar, and watch Die Hard starting after Halloween. 😂😂😂  

 

Disclaimer: I have never seen Die Hard and we do advent activities.

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I've seen this judgmental, legalistic behavior when people make decisions to exclude others based on religious ideology instead of about faith and a relationship with our Creator & Savior. I'm in line with the evangelicals in theory but I am not okay with excluding people based on a religious litmus test. 

From what I've seen though this cuts across all religions.  

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1 hour ago, Ellie said:

See, I don't think there's a point in try to evaluate how narrow or how broad someone's faith is. I think that term is used more by those outside the faith than by those in the faith, if you see what I mean. Also, 30 years ago, I was more likely to hear the term "fundamentalist" than "evangelical" to describe those who were more legalistic than the norm.

I can understand why the LDS family had problems, and it wasn't because of "evangelical." Most *Protestants* would consider LDS to be a cult and so would not welcome an LDS family into their activities (I'm not making judgements here; I'm just saying what I believe would have been the reason they were not welcome). There is a deep, fundamental difference between LDS theology and Catholic as well as Protestant theology, which is one of the reasons that the Catholic Church does not accept LDS baptisms.

I would expect all people of faith to be "evangelical." But there are no set parameters of what makes a non-Catholic Christian "evangelical."

It's not how broad or narrow their faith is - it's about how they treat those who don't believe the same as themselves. some would label them legalistic.  It's not a term I use, and only learned about here.   My grandmother was one - I had peers in school who were (and boy were they enlightening!) - back when I belonged to no particular church.)  I'm not without experience in this area.  Your reply has been enlightening too.

 

52 minutes ago, frogger said:

It's not one day! You can listen to Rock Around the Christmas tree, eat sugar, and watch Die Hard starting after Halloween. 😂😂😂  

 

Disclaimer: I have never seen Die Hard and we do advent activities.

I was chatting with a neighbor yesterday.  This subject came up about decorating for Christmas early.  I piped up I bought a tree!  (we'll see how I like it - but it looks like you can actually hang ornaments on it.  Most trees are bushy cones.  I hate them - they don't decorate well.)  She said it needed to go up before Halloween.  (I brought up for New Year's how we're supposed to shout Jumanji to get out of this).

I want to go to the "christmas tree lot" at Nordstrom (specific stores).  They have a display of trees from Balsam Hill.  I almost bought one from them last year, but  there were just little things that were off.

If you want a different Christmas movie - I can recommend "We're no Angels" with Humphrey Bogart, Peter Ustinov, and the unseen but important role of "adolphe".  (Adolphe is a snake.)

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17 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

If you want a different Christmas movie - I can recommend "We're no Angels" with Humphrey Bogart, Peter Ustinov, and the unseen but important role of "adolphe".  (Adolphe is a snake.)

I have never heard of that one. Thanks!

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Our co-op is sponsored by a Baptist church. It's very large and probably about 50% Catholic or more. Or maybe it's just the people I know happen to be Catholic. There is a SOF but you don't have to sign it to attend or to teach. You do have to promise not to teach anything directly opposed to the statement of faith, which is the same SOF as the one for the church. So a Catholic can teach pretty much anything but Apologetics. The SOF is young-earth creationism so I don't have my kids take Biology there and although I've been asked to teach it multiple times, I've made it clear that I can't teach it from their perspective. I do teach Anatomy there and don't have a problem with that. I taught Bioethics there and it was a good discussion with a mix of kids from Catholic and Protestant backgrounds. 

I have many very good friends who go to a private school that is associated with the same group that ACB is associated with (and I think it's a branch/relative of the school her kids go to). I know the school very much embraces the idea of bridging the historic gap between Catholics and Protestants. It's sort of one of the things they are proud of and known for. It's actually a school that a lot of homeschoolers here end up at for high school. 

I do think the "Catholics aren't Christians" idea within the evangelical community is very real and very sad. 

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1 hour ago, Frances said:

This is very true in my experience as a former practicing Catholic for twenty five years. My Catholic mom and her Catholic friends refer to the “super judgy” Catholics as Catholics who think they are more Catholic than the pope. I’ve seen some of this on the boards here at times. And for my Catholic friends and relatives, it often arises in political conversations.

Yes. Back in the day, "more Catholic than the pope" was just a saying but now some of these people literally believe they are more Catholic than the pope. Like he's not even a Catholic but they are. Pope Francis's latest encyclical is making them lose their minds. 

 

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Just now, Ordinary Shoes said:

Yes. Back in the day, "more Catholic than the pope" was just a saying but now some of these people literally believe they are more Catholic than the pope. Like he's not even a Catholic but they are. Pope Francis's latest encyclical is making them lose their minds. 

 

Yes. It used to be a sarcastic saying. Now with Francis it is literal. 

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4 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

A dear old lady friend of mine who is Baptist but very loving and accepting of me said about ACB “she is Catholic but if you read about her not really.”

She meant it as a compliment 😂 

See, I really am not thin skinned on the issue. I have some really close evangelical friends. In fact, a good friend of mine actually started a co-op that I couldn’t join. (I could have joined if I just signed her statement, so it wasn’t personal, she would have happily let me join if I would just sign her paper). 
 

My mom was Baptist and my dad was Catholic...so I really see more common ground than most folks I guess. 
 

I actually think anyone that knows me well would be happy for me just to sign their paper and join their co-op because I am nice and hard working and share their conservative values. But they think I am the exception. One of the good Catholics like ACB. But they need to keep their rules to keep the bad ones out. 
 

Anyway- it is just really interesting to watch the commentary and I wonder how it is all reconciled. 

I first responded to this with a laughing emoji, but then I read the whole post and it seemed mean to laugh. 

I laughed because the old lady friend of yours reminded me of my Grandmother. She was Catholic but my Mom didn't grow up Catholic. To make a long story short, my grandmother grew up in Paris during WWII and then moved to a tobacco farm in Virginia after meeting my grandfather who was a soldier. There was no Catholic Church for miles and miles so she sent my Mom and aunt to church with their paternal grandmother, a Baptist. But my Grandmother remained a devout Catholic and when there was finally a church in their town she became a regular attendee and my grandfather converted. 

Anyway...she used to tell me all the time that I "was really Catholic because we're all Catholic at heart" and she had baptized me Catholic in the kitchen sink as a baby. I would tell her that I didn't think that was accepted by the church and she said it was an emergency so it was ok. I asked what the emergency was and it was that no-one else was going to do it. 🙂

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4 minutes ago, Alice said:

I first responded to this with a laughing emoji, but then I read the whole post and it seemed mean to laugh. 

I laughed because the old lady friend of yours reminded me of my Grandmother. She was Catholic but my Mom didn't grow up Catholic. To make a long story short, my grandmother grew up in Paris during WWII and then moved to a tobacco farm in Virginia after meeting my grandfather who was a soldier. There was no Catholic Church for miles and miles so she sent my Mom and aunt to church with their paternal grandmother, a Baptist. But my Grandmother remained a devout Catholic and when there was finally a church in their town she became a regular attendee and my grandfather converted. 

Anyway...she used to tell me all the time that I "was really Catholic because we're all Catholic at heart" and she had baptized me Catholic in the kitchen sink as a baby. I would tell her that I didn't think that was accepted by the church and she said it was an emergency so it was ok. I asked what the emergency was and it was that no-one else was going to do it. 🙂

That’s funny. And it would have been fine to react with the laughing emoji. If I didn’t laugh I don’t know how I would make it in my current town. 
 

My old lady friend really loves and respects me. I know this. So her comments don’t sting. 
 

I would have missed out on some great people in my life if I hadn’t been open to friends of all stripes. 

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22 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

Half the time, I couldn't figure out what they were trying to say in the home-made SOF.  Even when I was Protestant and DID know what my denomination taught, I couldn't tell what our co-op's SOF was getting at.  I wondered why they didn't just use The Apostle's Creed or The Nicene Creed, both of which have stood the test of time.  

Well, there's that part in the Apostles' Creed that says, "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church," while the Nicene Creed says, "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church." I've heard non-Catholic Christians try to explain what "catholic" means, but you know most non-Catholic Christians just don't buy it.

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On 10/13/2020 at 12:16 PM, teachermom2834 said:

Would Amy Coney Barrett be welcome in your homeschool group? I'm not in a homeschool group, but most of the groups in our area make a big deal about being "inclusive" and secular. Religious homeschoolers of all types are more likely to feel uncomfortable as many of the groups don't allow any religious references at all. Could she teach at your co-op? The co-op I'm planning to join is run by a conservative church, but I believe she would be welcome and would be allowed to teach. They allow anyone to be involved, but make the group's belief system clear.  Be on the board? ? Would you allow your kids to be friends with her kids? Of course! My kids have many friends with all kinds of religious beliefs (or no religious beliefs). Allow your teenagers to date her teenagers? Yes. (One of my kids married a Jewish girl.)

 

I don't agree with some beliefs of the Catholic faith, but I wouldn't find that a reason to exclude someone from my circle or any groups that I am in charge of.  I keep hearing about people in the Bible belt saying they can't find a group because they have different beliefs or aren't religious, but I have the opposite problem. I live in a liberal area where it's very hard to find homeschool groups that even allow Christian beliefs to be mentioned. The most religious homeschoolers I know either don't join co-ops at all or they try to start their own groups.

This may not relate to your question, but I did once have a bizarre experience with a Catholic woman at a homeschool event that was held at a community rec center. Several women were talking about the various churches they attend, other women were listening, and one woman jumped into the conversation to tell everyone that the Catholic Church was the "one true church" and the rest of us were all deceived and wrong. She went on and on and everyone just stared at her. I'm not sure how mainstream that belief is, although the woman always seemed to have more issues of all kinds than the average person.

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38 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Well, there's that part in the Apostles' Creed that says, "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church," while the Nicene Creed says, "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church." I've heard non-Catholic Christians try to explain what "catholic" means, but you know most non-Catholic Christians just don't buy it.

We and all Protestants who do use the Apostles Creed  use a small c for catholic.  With a small c, it just means church universal and not the Holy Roman Catholic Church, which we would not be okay with.

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1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

We and all Protestants who do use the Apostles Creed  use a small c for catholic.  With a small c, it just means church universal and not the Holy Roman Catholic Church, which we would not be okay with.

Even in Catholic school we were taught that the catholic in the Apostles Creed was small c, meaning universal. So that is even the meaning it holds for me. 

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1 hour ago, Alice said:

I first responded to this with a laughing emoji, but then I read the whole post and it seemed mean to laugh. 

I laughed because the old lady friend of yours reminded me of my Grandmother. She was Catholic but my Mom didn't grow up Catholic. To make a long story short, my grandmother grew up in Paris during WWII and then moved to a tobacco farm in Virginia after meeting my grandfather who was a soldier. There was no Catholic Church for miles and miles so she sent my Mom and aunt to church with their paternal grandmother, a Baptist. But my Grandmother remained a devout Catholic and when there was finally a church in their town she became a regular attendee and my grandfather converted. 

Anyway...she used to tell me all the time that I "was really Catholic because we're all Catholic at heart" and she had baptized me Catholic in the kitchen sink as a baby. I would tell her that I didn't think that was accepted by the church and she said it was an emergency so it was ok. I asked what the emergency was and it was that no-one else was going to do it. 🙂

Actually it's my understanding that the sink baptism would be valid. I used to know someone who was trained as a nurse in the 1960s in a Catholic hospital. She was not Catholic. She said the nuns taught them to baptize everyone who was unconscious "just in case." It's my understanding that all that is needed for a valid baptism is that the person baptizing intends to baptize the other person and they use water. That person does not even need to be a Christian. 

There's the infamous case from the 1860s about the little Jewish boy who was baptized by his nurse and the Church took custody of him from his parents. 

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1 hour ago, Ellie said:

Well, there's that part in the Apostles' Creed that says, "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church," while the Nicene Creed says, "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church." I've heard non-Catholic Christians try to explain what "catholic" means, but you know most non-Catholic Christians just don't buy it.

What on earth?!?

Lots of non-Catholic Christians use the Apostles Creed.  At some point in elementary school most kids in such churches learn that the Roman Catholic Church exists and ask "how come we say 'catholic' in the creed when we're not catholic?" and the adult/older kid they asked says "the word means universal.  Some churches have that as part of their name, but when we say it we aren't referring to their name, we mean the world-wide church that includes all Christians." And the kid says "Oh" and that's that.

Edited by Danae
word, not world
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3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Actually it's my understanding that the sink baptism would be valid. I used to know someone who was trained as a nurse in the 1960s in a Catholic hospital. She was not Catholic. She said the nuns taught them to baptize everyone who was unconscious "just in case." It's my understanding that all that is needed for a valid baptism is that the person baptizing intends to baptize the other person and they use water. That person does not even need to be Christian.

Our parish priest loves to tell the story of his Baptism. He was in danger at birth. His father asked the doctor, a Jew, to baptize him. The doctor followed the instructions of the father and baptized our priest shortly after birth. They remained friends for many years.

So loving and respectful. 

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I’m pretty sure you would have been welcome in the co-op I belonged to. I mean, they had a statement of faith but it was pretty  open, and really there weren’t many discussions of religion. Co-op class teachers occasionally did bring religion up, but I think everyone was pretty good at keeping it to what most people could agree with. I know there were a variety of opinions on evolution. 

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A LDS missionary slipped and fell while hiking in Switzerland, and was killed.  I bring it up, because those same attitudes of "only people we agree with us are *real* Christians" was very much apparent in the comments.  This is the same mentality of those homeschoolers, etc. who gleefully exclude those who believe something different.   

Some of the comments were abhorrent - including some who were glad she died and how she deserved to go to hell.  I can't imagine saying that to anyone - of any faith.   But I have realized over time, we do have some on this board who have left me with the impression they would think, and even say, such things.  It was gratifying to see there are decent people of other faiths who also found those comments repulsive and who censured those making them.

 

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8 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I had heard a lot about anti- Catholicism but hadn't really heard of anti-Protestantism until my dd3 described what happened at her college.  She was giving a ride to a few people (she had a car even as a freshman because she had medical reasons for it) and these two Catholic girls laid into her after she asked about their student group (she had heard good things about it from some Catholic friends and though she wasn't a Catholic, she wasn't anti-Catholic either).  All about how she isn't a Christian,etc.   In fact, I believe that at least one of her Catholic friends stopped going to the group because these super strict Catholics got in charge.

Oops, something happened to my comment here and it disappeared, so I hope you don't read it until I edit and add it.  🙂  I began experiencing anti-Protestantism as a Lutheran -- but not from Catholics.  It was from so-called Bible churches that were starting to become popular back in the 80's.  I don't attend a Lutheran church now, although there are many things I love about it.  I happen to attend a non-denominational church now which would also probably be thought of as not Bible-based and therefore not acceptable by some churches, even though I think it's completely and beautifully Bible-based. 

2 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Actually it's my understanding that the sink baptism would be valid. I used to know someone who was trained as a nurse in the 1960s in a Catholic hospital. She was not Catholic. She said the nuns taught them to baptize everyone who was unconscious "just in case." It's my understanding that all that is needed for a valid baptism is that the person baptizing intends to baptize the other person and they use water. That person does not even need to be a Christian. 

There's the infamous case from the 1860s about the little Jewish boy who was baptized by his nurse and the Church took custody of him from his parents. 

That's always been my understanding too.  Although I'm sure our current church would say that even if you're not officially baptized, God will still accept you.  🙂 

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7 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

We've joined the local Catholic co-op although none of the classes or groups are meeting yet. 

I have to ask the reverse question. I keep getting all kinds of political emails from this co-op message board but the candidate they support would not be allowed to join the co-op. His wife might be allowed because she's Catholic but I believe their marriage is irregular which might prevent her from being able to join. 

But I keep getting emails saying that it's a mortal sin to not vote for this guy. 

I left a “support” group back in 2008 because of a sort of similar issue. The state leadership of the group sent out emails telling us who to vote for in the primaries- because, you know, if you are a member of this group, it is assumed that you are also of a particular political persuasion. I was extremely uncomfortable about it, and sent out an email to members of my local chapter suggesting (nicely) that we should all vote our conscience instead of being told who to vote for. The president of my chapter sent out an email in reply lambasting me for speaking my mind, and telling me that we weren’t allowed to use the email list for political commentary. Um, wth was that email that we got from the state leadership? After that, my dd and I were pretty much shunned by everyone in the chapter *except* my one real friend, the only Catholic mom in the whole group. It was a very eye-opening experience. 
 

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On 10/13/2020 at 11:34 AM, teachermom2834 said:

 

Honestly it always comes across that we are bad people and will hurt their children if they are around us. But I have seen things in regards to Barrett that are not about her judicial philosophy but specifically about her life as a Christian. One of these people wrote (on FB of course!) that ACB is “the hands and feet of Jesus.” Yet this same person doesn’t want me around. That’s what I have a hard time with. 

Not going to read through the thread because religious-->government stuff triggers me & I stumbled in here on accident - but I'll answer this part:

It's because many (not all, but many) homeschooling, evangelical (and other breeds) Christians are hypocrites. Giant, fluffy, dangerous hypocrites.

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On 10/14/2020 at 6:22 PM, gardenmom5 said:

A LDS missionary slipped and fell while hiking in Switzerland, and was killed.  I bring it up, because those same attitudes of "only people we agree with us are *real* Christians" was very much apparent in the comments.  This is the same mentality of those homeschoolers, etc. who gleefully exclude those who believe something different.   

Some of the comments were abhorrent - including some who were glad she died and how she deserved to go to hell.  I can't imagine saying that to anyone - of any faith.   But I have realized over time, we do have some on this board who have left me with the impression they would think, and even say, such things.  It was gratifying to see there are decent people of other faiths who also found those comments repulsive and who censured those making them.

 

I can't even.  😞

But I guess I can't say I am surprised.  All the people who are cheering that someone has COVID and is doing poorly, all the people who email, tweet, facebook, etc incredibly vile stuff to women, etc. etc/

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17 hours ago, easypeasy said:

Not going to read through the thread because religious-->government stuff triggers me & I stumbled in here on accident - but I'll answer this part:

It's because many (not all, but many) homeschooling, evangelical (and other breeds) Christians are hypocrites. Giant, fluffy, dangerous hypocrites.

The thing is - most people are hypocritical about something. Some try harder than others to rid themselves of hypocrisy, and some things that people are hypocrites about are a bigger deal than things other people are hypocritical about, but we all fall prey to it. Those who think other people are hypocrites but they aren't ... probably are. I'm including myself in this, obviously. 

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