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POTUS and FLOTUS have Covid-19


YaelAldrich
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Cardiac & respiratory status normal.  Not on oxygen.  Walking fine, in good spirits.

ETA:  Had a fever Thursday and Friday.  None since.  Will not give specifics as to testing.

ETA2:  It's been 72 hours since his diagnosis.  Was apparently on oxygen at the White House.

Edited by Katy
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50 minutes ago, EKS said:

It's possible that this is just a vocal minority.  I know that for the first many years I was here, many, many people were conservative.  The shouting down thing seems to be a hallmark of the new ultra left leaning crowd.  

I learned long ago on this board to be careful of using loaded words, to give documentation or at least reasons for claims and to have “rhino skin” (a board term from at least ten years ago). Asking for well reasoned arguments that don’t make broad generalizations that use loaded language is not “shouting someone down “. Me telling you that I disagree with you and why, is not “shouting you down “. The people having the most problems on this board are the ones who are not learning these basic lessons of public discourse. It has nothing to do with how conservative they are. 
 

signed a conservative leaning politically moderate who is also a very conservative Christian. 

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We need some serious timeline clarification.

IF he knew, and IF he went to Bedminster knowing he was positive --

That's unconscionable. And I'm trying to be charitable with my word choice.

The doctors said he was diagnosed 72 hours ago and the antibody cocktail was given 48 hours ago. Something is obviously not right.

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48 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Hmm... I haven’t noticed an influx of  “ultra left leaning” posters. Seems to be the same old familiar posters. I have noticed a distinct shift from the extremely conservative “you’re not really a Christian” “How can I explain dinosaurs consistent with my Young Earth beliefs” board that I first encountered here a decade ago, but I attribute much of that shift to a broader cultural shift in the US in particular.

I didn't say there has been an influx.  Just a shift, which for the most part has been nice for the reasons you mention.  And I agree that what's going on with the ultra left is cultural.

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3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, I've dealt with it more than the average bear, I would say, given my hobbies. But not much here, to be honest. 

I agree that I see it much less here than elsewhere.

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1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

We need some serious timeline clarification.

IF he knew, and IF he went to Bedminster knowing he was positive --

That's unconscionable. And I'm trying to be charitable with my word choice.

The doctors said he was diagnosed 72 hours ago and the antibody cocktail was given 48 hours ago. Something is obviously not right.

Yeah, I agree. 

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2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

We need some serious timeline clarification.

IF he knew, and IF he went to Bedminster knowing he was positive --

That's unconscionable. And I'm trying to be charitable with my word choice.

The doctors said he was diagnosed 72 hours ago and the antibody cocktail was given 48 hours ago. Something is obviously not right.

Writing this on Saturday: The antibody cocktail was given yesterday less than 24 hours ago according to my information.  The diagnosis was late on Thursday I believe — unless it was already past midnight Friday. 

What doctors said 48 and 72 hours?

 

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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

Writing this on Saturday: The antibody cocktail was given yesterday less than 24 hours ago according to my information.  The diagnosis was late on Thursday I believe — unless it was already past midnight Friday. 

What doctors said 48 and 72 hours?

 

The presidents doctor just said 72 hours ago in the update to reporters.

 

Edited by melmichigan
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4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

There will always be a potential gap between when you are contagious and when you test positive. Which is why testing is not an excuse to avoid distancting, masks, etc in these scenarios where there is daily potential exposure. It's better than nothing, but not enough to control spread when you have people behaving recklessly. (as in, just hours after Trump's status was released, the chief of staff who had known exposure to Trump and others was giving a press conference, unmasked, rather than quarantining as CDC guidelines require)

On the other hand, if say, one was willing to stay home for several days/week, and then take a test or two, before visiting a higher risk family member, that would help eliminate that gap. 

Or using testing PLUS the regular CDC guidelines of distancing/masks, etc. 

But mostly it seems that they were WAY over reliant on tests, ignoring distancing and mask, had people with symptoms who were still mingling with others in close quarters, and had people with known exposure still mingling with others. Tests can't make up for that kind of behavior. 

That isn't the narrative AT ALL that I'm seeing. People are having playdates outdoors, meeting at playgrounds to play, etc. You KNOW small kids are not distancing while playing on a playground. Sigh. 

We did come across an empty playground on our nature walk the other day and I let the kids use it until another kid showed up. Then we left and I had the kids use hand sanitizer. That is WAY more cautious than most people here. Even kids at school don't have to wear masks or anything when on the playground I don't think. 

Our school does-even first grade, but we are still having an outbreak. We may be in the minority on our strict mask policy-and we have desk shields.

Didn't I read that the virus had mutated to getting around masks? Forgive the weird wording.

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2 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

That's before the medical update where his doctor said he was diagnosed 72 hours ago.

Those of us in healthcare are usually very careful with hours since diagnosis, we don't just estimate, so this is concerning.

Edited by melmichigan
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1 minute ago, math teacher said:

Our school does-even first grade, but we are still having an outbreak. We may be in the minority on our strict mask policy-and we have desk shields.

Didn't I read that the virus had mutated to getting around masks? Forgive the weird wording.

What????????

Where did you read that?

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re "shaming/ shouting down" vs "disagreement"

 

20 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I learned long ago on this board to be careful of using loaded words, to give documentation or at least reasons for claims and to have “rhino skin” (a board term from at least ten years ago)..

All of these are valuable, important elements of effective communication generally

And

20 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

...Asking for well reasoned arguments that don’t make broad generalizations that use loaded language is not “shouting someone down “. Me telling you that I disagree with you and why, is not “shouting you down “. T

20 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

...Asking for well reasoned arguments that don’t make broad generalizations that use loaded language is not “shouting someone down “. Me telling you that I disagree with you and why, is not “shouting you down “. The people having the most problems on this board are the ones who are not learning these basic lessons of public discourse. It has nothing to do with how conservative they are. 
 

signed a conservative leaning politically moderate who is also a very conservative Christian. 

this is, seriously and literally, what "rhino skin" means. Dialogue across difference is not for the thin-skinned.  It's hard, and a good deal of the difficulty is managing our OWN defensiveness and reflexes to respond snarkily, or before counting to 10.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 

20 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 ....The people having the most problems on this board are the ones who are not learning these basic lessons of public discourse. It has nothing to do with how conservative they are. 
 

signed a conservative leaning politically moderate who is also a very conservative Christian. 

+1

 

signed a liberal leaning political moderate who is a very progressive Jew.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

The presidents doctor just said 72 hours ago on live tv.

 

 

Listening to replay now.

I heard it but it will need to be clarified. 

Doctor 2 spoke of him being at Walter Reed for “24 hours” - however the helicopter departed to Walter Reed around 5pm ET which was less [error fixed:] less than 20 hours ago...

They may be giving medical time windows of 24 hours meaning within that and 72 hours meaning within that — designations that are important medically, for medical care decisions,  but not as a precise timeline . 

Edited by Pen
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26 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I learned long ago on this board to be careful of using loaded words, to give documentation or at least reasons for claims and to have “rhino skin” (a board term from at least ten years ago). Asking for well reasoned arguments that don’t make broad generalizations that use loaded language is not “shouting someone down “. Me telling you that I disagree with you and why, is not “shouting you down “. The people having the most problems on this board are the ones who are not learning these basic lessons of public discourse. It has nothing to do with how conservative they are. 
 

signed a conservative leaning politically moderate who is also a very conservative Christian. 

OMG here we go again!!!!!

Why can't you accept the fact that may be, just may be, even if one presents well researched arguments, if majority doesn't agree, it matters none how well researched, well worded, well presented those arguments are?

What you and a few others are saying sounds great in theory. It is NOT a reality of this forum.

signed as a person who doesn't take things personally OR looses any sleep over being unpopular on a message board.

P.S even if one presents nothing but their own opinion, it should still be respected on a basic level. Despite the fact that Mercy thinks that not all opinions are created equal

 

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8 minutes ago, math teacher said:

Our school does-even first grade, but we are still having an outbreak. We may be in the minority on our strict mask policy-and we have desk shields.

Didn't I read that the virus had mutated to getting around masks? Forgive the weird wording.

Uh say what now? Let’s be clear.

So far nothing we have stops Covid.  What we have slows Covid down. 
 

testing neg today doesn’t mean you will not test positive  tomorrow 
 

wearing a QUAlITY mask PROPERLY can reduce aerosol transmission 60% up to 90%  but frankly many face coverings are flat out useless. 
 

more hand washing and social distance also reduces means of transmission  

the virus is not spreading because it has mutated to the point that those things no longer slow it down  

the virus is spreading bc there are still people to contact it and eventually everyone has to have contact with someone.
 

Eventually everyone is going to have had this. It’s as unavoidable as the wind and the rain. But slowing it down gives society the time to provide medical care that otherwise would not be available and work towards a safe reliable vaccine  

 

 

Edited by Murphy101
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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Listening to replay now.

I heard it but it will need to be clarified. 

Doctor 2 spoke of him being at Walter Reed for “24 hours” - however the helicopter departed to Walter Reed around 5pm ET which was less than 12 hours ago. 

They may be giving medical time windows of 24 hours meaning within that and 72 hours meaning within that — designations that are important medically, for medical care decisions,  but not as a precise timeline . 

It's 12:30pm on Saturday, he was taken to WR around 5pm, last night, which is more than 12 hrs ago. We're closing in on 20 hrs now. 

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2 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

That was a poorly worded headline I saw a few days ago.  Speculation that it was mutating to become more contagious. https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/covid-19-mutation-may-be-evolving-to-bypass-masks-hand-washing/

Thank you for linking this since I still need to learn how to link. Something else I can work on in isolation.

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5 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

It's 12:30pm on Saturday, he was taken to WR around 5pm, last night, which is more than 12 hrs ago. We're closing in on 20 hrs now. 

 

Thanks - my error.    Combo of arithmetic error and time zones .

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1 minute ago, SereneHome said:

OMG here we go again!!!!!

Why can't you accept the fact that may be, just may be, even if one presents well researched arguments, if majority doesn't agree, it matters none how well researched, well worded, well presented those arguments are?

What you and a few others are saying sounds great in theory. It is NOT a reality of this forum.

signed as a person who doesn't take things personally OR looses any sleep over being unpopular on a message board.

P.S even if one presents nothing but their own opinion, it should still be respected on a basic level. Despite the fact that Mercy thinks that not all opinions are created equal

 

???   Why do you think that it's not a reality of the forum?  The brouhaha in this very thread was due to the use of loaded words.  If someone repeatedly runs into communication problems, then perhaps they should examine how they communicate. 

 

BTW  - misinformation about COVID19 does elicit stronger reactions because misinformation and dismissal of medical science regarding the virus very literally can kill people.  There are lots of people on this board whose COVID19 lifestyle is very similar but using loaded words and dismissing it is the problem, not the lifestyle.  There are lots of people on this board who are concerned about the economy.  But a black and white dismissal of the COVID19 science (as it evolves) does nothing for their argument. 

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7 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Mercy thinks that not all opinions are created equal

Oh, absolutely. Does anyone believe this? Possibly if we were talking about butter pecan vs. mint chocolate chip ice cream, and not, you know, a worldwide pandemic with actual lives at stake. 

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6 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

So why are all these people, that were in contact with those testing positive, "allowed" to decline to quarantine because they tested negative that day?

 

I don’t know for sure in their case, but for some of my relatives deemed “essential workers” they keep on working without quarantine if negative test.  

 

For some people I know it may not even be “allowed” to quarantine- if they are needed HCW for example. 

And I think other threads have raised situations of teachers exposed to someone positive but who “have to” keep working. 

 

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14 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I haven't posted much in this thread.  Mostly to say I was going to start a thread that I didn't because DH distracted me and I couldn't remember what I was going to say lol.

But what I will say is this.

I know Bagels in person.  I pick up her kids 2 times a week.  My kids literally ask regularly when they get to play with her kids.  I have eaten food in her house and she has eaten food in mine.  

She is not a mean nasty person.  She *DOES* , like so many here....get pretty riled up.  And although I try to often maintain a reasonable head on the boards.....and really, in person too.....I am generally pretty middle of the road and pretty neutral....

Truth is....There is *VERY MUCH a liberal type of leaning of this board, and often, anyone who doesn't fit perfectly within the liberal thought processes tends to be shouted down.  This is a reflection of what is often happening in popular culture as a whole and in some cases, has been referred to as "cancel culture."   This board isn't immune to cancel culture.  I have said it before that so many people on this board who tend to have conservative views...or even those who are somewhat middle of the road......they (we) feel shouted down and "cancelled."  

Covid and the recent protests have really turned the problem bare. There has been so many references to "killing grandma" and " not caring about others" and "racists" and so on just tossed around.  And I personally feel like there has been SO MUCH more of that vs "cowering in fear."  I do feel like some people who talk about having been told they are "cowering in fear" are conflating their facebook feeds and perhaps other personal situations with what happens here on the board.

 

 

 

 

I will be honest....most of you are "random anonymous people on the internet for me.  I know Ktgrok is Katie (though I can't promise I spelled that right) and she lives in Florida.  I know Not-a Number lives in the northeast.  I know Mercy is a very devout Christian.  

But I know Bagel's address.  I can actually walk to her house.  If my DH had to have emergency surgery right now, I could drop my kids off with her and know they would be ok.  She isn't a random person on the internet to me, but yeah....most of you are.  

And the truth is that isn't a bad thing.  Thinking we know these people on the internet is part of what is contributing to the polarization that is happening.

 

Please.....really get to know the people you talking to online before you think you know who you are talking to.  

Please tell her that I will miss her very much. I decided a few years ago to not get sucked into hot topics. It’s just too personally draining. But I have greatly appreciated her voice on this board and she has often said what I was thinking. So in that way, she’s taken it on the chin on my behalf. But life is too full and too short to sacrifice emotional energy for strangers on the internet. I truly wish her the best. 

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11 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

P.S even if one presents nothing but their own opinion, it should still be respected on a basic level. 

Nope. Not all opinions are worthy of respect. 

Someone in my own former church once commented, when Obama was on vacation, that it was "just like a n-------" [to be lazy]. Someone else in the same church remarked that "those people [black people] only get off their butts to protest." I'm not going to respect opinions like that, not even on a basic level. 

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4 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Please tell her that I will miss her very much. I decided a few years ago to not get sucked into hot topics. It’s just too personally draining. But I have greatly appreciated her voice on this board and she has often said what I was thinking. So in that way, she’s taken it on the chin on my behalf. But life is too full and too short to sacrifice emotional energy for strangers on the internet. I truly wish her the best. 

Me too - she's one of the voices I often look to for a reasonable, well thought out opinion that doesn't always line up with my thinking, but that I respect. (I probably didn't word that well). Alternative point of view that I may not have thought of, but respect greatly? 

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18 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Why can't you accept the fact that may be, just may be, even if one presents well researched arguments, if majority doesn't agree, it matters none how well researched, well worded, well presented those arguments are?

I've been in places where you have to be VERY careful not to contradict the prevailing wisdom in the group. I have not largely found that to be the case in this forum. Most people stay courteous even if they violently disagree. It's not true for EVERYONE, but I have to say, I now know who the typical miscreants are and try not to engage too much 😉 . 

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4 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Nope. Not all opinions are worthy of respect. 

Someone in my own former church once commented, when Obama was on vacation, that it was "just like a n-------" [to be lazy]. Someone else in the same church remarked that "those people [black people] only get off their butts to protest." I'm not going to respect opinions like that, not even on a basic level. 

Yeah. And on a factual level, "people don't spread the virus, viruses just SPREAD" is nothing but pernicious nonsense. That's not an opinion I have to respect. 

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3 minutes ago, Pen said:

I hope we can manage a “What did they know and when did they know it?” discussion keeping it staying civil. 

Me, too. 

But of course, they knew it before releasing it. I think it's pretty standard not to release medical info, frankly. The decision to still attend events, on the other hand... 

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12 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Nope. Not all opinions are worthy of respect. 

Someone in my own former church once commented, when Obama was on vacation, that it was "just like a n-------" [to be lazy]. Someone else in the same church remarked that "those people [black people] only get off their butts to protest." I'm not going to respect opinions like that, not even on a basic level. 

So, where do you draw the line?

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Breaking news about the WH leak about DJT's health. The leaker is likely to be Chief of Staff Mark Meadows who was filmed talking to the WH Press Pool. He is clearly heard asking to be off the record. In addition an email was sent to the entire press pool with these same allegations:

 

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39 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

???   Why do you think that it's not a reality of the forum?  The brouhaha in this very thread was due to the use of loaded words.  If someone repeatedly runs into communication problems, then perhaps they should examine how they communicate. 

 

BTW  - misinformation about COVID19 does elicit stronger reactions because misinformation and dismissal of medical science regarding the virus very literally can kill people.  There are lots of people on this board whose COVID19 lifestyle is very similar but using loaded words and dismissing it is the problem, not the lifestyle.  There are lots of people on this board who are concerned about the economy.  But a black and white dismissal of the COVID19 science (as it evolves) does nothing for their argument. 

Based on my own experience and based on how Bagel's comment was taken.

Well, there are a lot of topics that elicit very strong reactions. I am sure you can think of a few.

I don't think the topic itself should be an excuse as to how discussion is conducted. Everyone has topics that they feel strongly about.

 

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4 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

Soooo....this may depend on where we live a bit. This board is where I come to hear from online friends with conservative viewpoints. My state is mostly quite liberal and I consider myself more middle of the road. In my real world, I have a mix of conservative and liberal friends, but even my most conservative Southern Baptist Liberty University graduating friends are more liberal than many on this board.

You see a very much liberal type board, I see a more conservative board with a mix of viewpoints. I'm betting the two perspectives are due, at least partly, to where we live and who we see on a daily basis. 

Agreed. I think this forum has a good mix of conservatives and liberals but it can seem different while in the midst of an online discussion. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I've been in places where you have to be VERY careful not to contradict the prevailing wisdom in the group. I have not largely found that to be the case in this forum. Most people stay courteous even if they violently disagree. It's not true for EVERYONE, but I have to say, I now know who the typical miscreants are and try not to engage too much 😉 . 

I might need you to get me a cheat sheet. I can't remember posters that well. hahaha

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1 minute ago, SereneHome said:

I might need you to get me a cheat sheet. I can't remember posters that well. hahaha

Oooooooh. I don't think I'll provide a cheat sheet, but I really recommend knowing the cast of characters, so to speak. They all have VERY different personalities, and some people are reliable jerks. Others are reliably nice and kind. 

I, for example, am reliably calm and am reliably contrarian 😉 . I'm not one of the really kind posters, but I try hard for justice. 

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