POTUS and FLOTUS have Covid-19

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, lewelma said:

Well, emotive words are never helpful. But they flow out of these two different worldviews where each side refuses to see the other's arguments. I might also mention, that Bagels may feel meh, because she has had some serious tragedy in her life, so may have worked hard to reduce her emotional load. 

I understand that and sympathize, but this is like trying to convince kids to finish their meals by citing the starving children in Africa -- yes, if you've seen horrors yourself, it may make you feel differently about things, but you'll never ever transmit your own emotional reality to other people in that way. You just have to be secure with your own assessments of your own risks. 

Plus, the problem with that approach is, of course, that with infectious diseases, you don't just make the decisions for yourself. 

[Liz CA]

17 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's unsurprising, I think. I meant, I'm embarrassed to say, but it felt very much like "not my problem" when it was all the way in Italy...

Good point. Far away...until it was the neighbor.

[Frances]

22 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I haven't heard much about it, but didn't VA Gov. Northam and his wife just get diagnosed? I honestly don't think the virus respects ideological or political boundaries.

The article I posted above you about leaders changing their minds after getting the virus includes quotes from both Republicans and Democrats.

[Pen]

14 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I think it is liberal/conservative because it is about whether we act together as a nation and a team or whether the individual is empowered to make decisions appropriate to them.  This is kind of the heart of 2 different worldviews mostly identified with the 2 different political parties in the US.

I'm in NZ and definitely like the team approach, but there is an intellectual argument to empower the individual like Sweden has. Without getting political and acting as an outside observer (I immigrated to NZ 25 years ago), it seems that the USA has struggled with covid because they did not embrace either NZ's approach (team) or Sweden's approach (individual responsibility), and got all muddled because there was a difference of opinion as to the approach, which then got full of rancor. 

 

I think smaller national size might have helped NZ and probably Sweden too.  

I am also not sure that rancor (including worse than usual due to election) did not both precede and also follow difference of approach and muddle. I do think you are on to something in that a large part of US wanted to be Sweden-like in approach and another large part wanted to be NZ like. I think by the time we even knew that there was a novel virus there was probably already too much stealth virus in US to have been successfully NZ like.  

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

I think smaller national size might have helped NZ and probably Sweden too.  

I am also not sure that rancor (including worse than usual due to election) did not both precede and also follow difference of approach and muddle. I do think you are on to something in that a large part of US wanted to be Sweden-like in approach and another large part wanted to be NZ like. I think by the time we even knew that there was a novel virus there was probably already too much stealth virus in US to have been successfully NZ like.  

Plus just luck.  There were no super spreader events there before the virus was really identified.  

[Pen]

18 minutes ago, EmseB said:

There were, as I'm reading on Twitter, a lot of indoor events held for the nomination as well that weren't as publicized.

 

15 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, interesting. I really hope that's true, because news of outdoor spread would make me quite unhappy. Your anecdotal evidence plus the protests have made me feel a lot safer outside. 

 

Me too.  

Not just unhappy. I would have to re-rethink my actions. And re-rethink exhorting my state and local leaders about outdoor classes if possible. And so on and so forth.  I have to anyway to some degree since my nephew got sick at an outdoor camp. And people in my area got sick at an outdoor barbecue. But I was looking at that as an unusual unfortunate events, despite outdoors being mostly safe—not that outdoors groupings really aren’t all that safe. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Pen

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Plus just luck.  There were no super spreader events there before the virus was really identified.  

Eh, super-spreader still means like 20+ people. New Zealand had more than a thousand cases by the end of it all. It sputtered out because of the tight lockdown, not because there weren't large spreading events.

Now, can one do this in a fragmented and large nation like the US? Probably not. And we have too many people coming in and out, anyway. 

[Ausmumof3]

7 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

Me too.  

Not just unhappy. I would have to re-rethink my actions. And re-rethink exhorting my state and local leaders about outdoor classes if possible. And so on and so forth.  I have to anyway to some degree since my nephew got sick at an outdoor camp. And people in my area got sick at an outdoor barbecue. But I was looking at that as an unusual unfortunate events, despite outdoors being mostly safe—not that outdoors groupings really aren’t all that safe. 

This makes me worried for Vic.  There was a tonne of people at the beach last night and I was reassuring myself that it would be ok because of the outdoor thing.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

Me too.  

Not just unhappy. I would have to re-rethink my actions. And re-rethink exhorting my state and local leaders about outdoor classes if possible. And so on and so forth.  I have to anyway to some degree since my nephew got sick at an outdoor camp. And people in my area got sick at an outdoor barbecue. But I was looking at that as an unusual unfortunate events, despite outdoors being mostly safe—not that outdoors groupings really aren’t all that safe. 

Ugh. And I remember a poster on here saying that people were getting sick at outdoor events in the Midwest. 

But maybe that's because people have been taking the outdoor thing too literally... it's not like being outdoors ensures that you don't get sick, it probably just takes a longer exposure time/worse luck? 

What happened at the outdoor barbecue, if you don't mind me asking? Was it entirely outdoors? 

[Ausmumof3]

What does this mean for rapid testing as a means of controlling spread?  That was sounding hopeful but many of these people were having the regular rapid tests.

[Ausmumof3]

Pres. Trump's campaign manager, Bill Stepien, has tested positive for COVID-19.

[Terabith]

24 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

What does this mean for rapid testing as a means of controlling spread?  That was sounding hopeful but many of these people were having the regular rapid tests.

Well, rapid testing is good for catching infections so people can quarantine.  But it doesn't prevent infections.  And it's far less effective when a) there's a super spreader event, and b) people cover up their positive tests and continue galavanting about, as it increasingly looks likely happened. 

[lewelma]

38 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I think smaller national size might have helped NZ and probably Sweden too.  

I am also not sure that rancor (including worse than usual due to election) did not both precede and also follow difference of approach and muddle. I do think you are on to something in that a large part of US wanted to be Sweden-like in approach and another large part wanted to be NZ like. I think by the time we even knew that there was a novel virus there was probably already too much stealth virus in US to have been successfully NZ like.  

I'm definitely NOT trying to suggest that non-island nations could have done an elimination strategy.  I was trying to say that there is a team approach and an individual approach. Some countries like Vietnam, Mongolia, South Korea, Germany, NZ, and Sweden basically took one approach and ran with it.  Other countries didn't for many different reasons.  From the outside, it looked like America was divided about these two worldviews, and then each went to an extreme side of their beliefs as the debate got more heated.  However as I see it, individual responsibility is a conservative ideal but it is not the same as 'don't mask', which is Trumpian republicanism.  I often see these conflated. The quote I was responding to was about liberal vs conservative viewpoints. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

However as I see it, individual responsibility is a conservative ideal but it is not the same as 'don't mask', which is Trumpian republicanism. 

Well, see, feeling like this was the case was why I would have described myself as a conservative in college and grad school. It's completely incompatible with the anti-mask thing, though. (And a number of other things I won't describe on this board.) 

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Well, rapid testing is good for catching infections so people can quarantine.  But it doesn't prevent infections.  And it's far less effective when a) there's a super spreader event, and b) people cover up their positive tests and continue galavanting about, as it increasingly looks likely happened. 

I just started a thread with an article explaining how the rapid testing works to limit spread. 

[Ausmumof3]

Trump is also taking remdesivir apparently which is not really surprising.

[lewelma]

45 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Plus just luck.  There were no super spreader events there before the virus was really identified.  

Kind of off topic, but I would have to disagree.  When we went into lockdown (generally considered the strictest in the world outside of China), we were hardly testing at all.  We have no idea how many people were positive.  And now we are finding 'historical' cases 5 months later that are still testing positive that had not been recorded, so we know there were a lot.  

Princeton did a review of NZ's approach just recently, and named 3 things that gave us the edge: 1) a strong social contract, 2) Our Chief Doctor was an excellent communicator, and 3) Jacinda Ardern was an excellent communicator. I would add to this: NZ's political system of a single chamber parliamentarian system.  So I'm not going with Luck. But this is off topic. I know that Americans hate being compared to NZ because it was not possible to do what NZ did with a country the size of the USA. So just saying, I'm not comparing. 

[lewelma]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, see, feeling like this was the case was why I would have described myself as a conservative in college and grad school. It's completely incompatible with the anti-mask thing, though. (And a number of other things I won't describe on this board.) 

I am very liberal, but because I have conservative family members (not Trumpian republicans), I have worked very hard through deep reading to understand the core foundations of that worldview.  My father is one of the widest read individuals I know, and he is conservative. He worldview is based in logic.  If I can deeply understand why someone thinks a certain way, I can better explain my own viewpoints and also come to compromise. 

[ElizabethB]

3 hours ago, happi duck said:

The "meh" and "shrug" thing interests me.  On the internet, imo, I think they both come across as a dismissive "screw you", even "f**k you".

Isn't that what they convey to everyone else?

I personally thought meh meant whatever, but I am old and not hip, that's the way it comes across to me from my teens' tweets...

So, to me meh means whatever, or not much, or I don't care for something that much, but not snarky or rude, just describing a ho hum reaction.

[Garga]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Previously I had expected lots of sickness spread even at outdoor activities, but then statistics seemed to indicate that I was wrong.  Now, I am not sure. Maybe many more people got sick, but did not get tested. 

But even outdoors, you are supposed to stay a solid 6 feet away from other people.  

Per photographs of the event, the chairs were placed shoulder to shoulder.  

I don’t think the outdoor event in the rose garden challenges the idea that being outdoors is safe. It’s always been said that being outdoors is safe IF you are distant. Both things have to be present to be safe: outdoors + distance.

In the rose garden they were outdoors, but not distant.

 

See picture in this article:  https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/02/trump-timeline-activities-425041

Edited October 3, 2020 by Garga

[Frances]

3 minutes ago, Garga said:

But even outdoors, you are supposed to stay a solid 6 feet away from other people.  

Per photographs of the event, the chairs were placed shoulder to shoulder.  

I don’t think the outdoor event in the rose garden challenges the idea that being outdoors is safe. It’s always been said that being outdoors is safe IF you are distant. Both things have to be present to be safe: outdoors + distance.

In the rose garden they were outdoors, but not distant.

 

See picture in this article:  https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/02/trump-timeline-activities-425041

I think there was also mingling before and after when people were talking face to face without masks, not just sitting side by side. Plus as others have mentioned, there were a number of indoor events too.

[lewelma]

Continuing with the conservative ideal post, my family shows a lot of personal responsibility:

My parents (80 years old) - have not seen or interacted with anyone in person since March.

My sister (the teacher) - has a compromised immune system but is a teacher who is required to teach in person or lose her job. So she wears a mask, goggle, a face shield, a microphone, a headset, a lab coat, and drinks her lunch through a straw so she doesn't remove her PPE. When she comes home, she strips at the door, puts her clothes in the washing machine, and takes a shower before seeing her husband. She never goes out with friends and all shopping is delivered. 

My other sister (a professor) - is super healthy.  She teaches face to face with 10 feet social distancing and takes off her mask when lecturing. She shops in person with a mask on.

My other sister (a councilor) - has chosen to work from home because she has anxiety issues so felt better not working face to face. However, she does do 'walking' sessions, where they walk outside 6 feet apart and with masks for an hour. Both of her children have chosen to attend school virtually for the year even though their schools are open. This sister will go to outdoor restaurants as she deems the risk low. She also has driveway parties with her friends. 

Each is taking personal responsibility, going beyond what their state mandates, but each is identifying their own risk and taking appropriate action for their situation. That is the conservative ideal. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by lewelma

[SereneHome]

9 minutes ago, kand said:

I didn’t take “not well informed” as a condescending thing in this particular context. It didn’t sound like Mercy was calling anyone not well informed, just saying in general, that can be one reason for disagreeing with someone and she gave an example where she was the not informed person who had been called out here and learned from it. I have had the same experience here, which is why it’s interesting that some find it an echo chamber, when I have had a lot of beliefs challenged here, and some changed. For example, I was raised on “color blind” race theory and thought that was a good thing until listening to a lot of discussions here over the years (much more listening than participating), which dramatically changed my view on that. And I would say yes, that was an example where I was uninformed and didn’t know better (even though I didn’t realize it at the time). 
 

 

Sure, if you consider yourself not well informed, that's one thing. To assume that your opponent is, simply bc they are not agreeing with you, that's condescending. In addition, she went on to say that one should question their views if a bunch of "kind, well-intentioned women" tell them to do it.

In any case....it's not really about Mercy's posts. My point was, that quite often I have observed that unpopular views get dismissed as "not well informed, insensitive, judgmental" etc etc etc. It's not really unique to this particular thread. 

[Corraleno]

53 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Pres. Trump's campaign manager, Bill Stepien, has tested positive for COVID-19.

Also three members of the WH press corps and another WH staffer. At least 2 of the journalists (and maybe all 3, I don't know) were at the WH on Saturday covering the Barrett event. One then flew to PA with Trump on AF1, and developed symptoms on Thursday. The other was only at the WH on Saturday and Sunday and began showing symptoms on Wednesday, reinforcing the idea that the Saturday events were a significant source of spread. Also, four of those who have tested positive so far were on the debate prep team, which met in close quarters with no masks or distancing for several days: Trump, Hicks, Conway, and Stepien. Others who were in the room included Rudy Guiliani, Chris Christie, Stephen Miller and Jason Miller.  Christie was tested today (Friday) and expects results tomorrow. Not sure about the others. 

[MercyA]

14 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

she went on to say that one should question their views if a bunch of "kind, well-intentioned women" tell them to do it.

I think it's always useful to examine one's own views, and if we are truly right, we should have no fear or hesitation about that.

However, just for the record, here is what I actually said: "If a group of kind, well-intentioned, intelligent women are telling you you are coming across as insensitive, maybe it's time to stop for a minute and consider that."

That is a quite a bit different from what you are implying I said. I stand by my words.

Edited October 3, 2020 by MercyA

[SereneHome]

1 minute ago, MercyA said:

I think it's always useful to examine one's views, and if we are truly right, we should have no fear or hesitation about that.

However, just for the record, here is what I actually said: "If a group of kind, well-intentioned, intelligent women are telling you you are coming across as insensitive, maybe it's time to stop for a minute and consider that."

I stand by my words.

Well......until, of course, a group of kind, well-intentioned, intelligent women will tell you to re-reconsider your words. Right?

But sarcasm aside, I never said that examining one's views is a bad idea.

[Pen]

 

Remdesivir was apparently added to POTUS treatment.

and Apparently Chris Wallace will be getting tested

 

 

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

What does this mean for rapid testing as a means of controlling spread?  That was sounding hopeful but many of these people were having the regular rapid tests.

There will always be a potential gap between when you are contagious and when you test positive. Which is why testing is not an excuse to avoid distancting, masks, etc in these scenarios where there is daily potential exposure. It's better than nothing, but not enough to control spread when you have people behaving recklessly. (as in, just hours after Trump's status was released, the chief of staff who had known exposure to Trump and others was giving a press conference, unmasked, rather than quarantining as CDC guidelines require)

On the other hand, if say, one was willing to stay home for several days/week, and then take a test or two, before visiting a higher risk family member, that would help eliminate that gap. 

Or using testing PLUS the regular CDC guidelines of distancing/masks, etc. 

But mostly it seems that they were WAY over reliant on tests, ignoring distancing and mask, had people with symptoms who were still mingling with others in close quarters, and had people with known exposure still mingling with others. Tests can't make up for that kind of behavior. 

6 hours ago, Garga said:

But even outdoors, you are supposed to stay a solid 6 feet away from other people.  

Per photographs of the event, the chairs were placed shoulder to shoulder.  

I don’t think the outdoor event in the rose garden challenges the idea that being outdoors is safe. It’s always been said that being outdoors is safe IF you are distant. Both things have to be present to be safe: outdoors + distance.

In the rose garden they were outdoors, but not distant.

 

See picture in this article:  https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/02/trump-timeline-activities-425041

That isn't the narrative AT ALL that I'm seeing. People are having playdates outdoors, meeting at playgrounds to play, etc. You KNOW small kids are not distancing while playing on a playground. Sigh. 

We did come across an empty playground on our nature walk the other day and I let the kids use it until another kid showed up. Then we left and I had the kids use hand sanitizer. That is WAY more cautious than most people here. Even kids at school don't have to wear masks or anything when on the playground I don't think. 

[Pawz4me]

The WH events of last Saturday were indoors as well as outdoors. Per the Washington Post:

Quote

Attendees were so confident that the contagion would not invade their seemingly safe space at the White House that, according to Jenkins, after guests tested negative that day they were instructed they no longer needed to cover their faces. The no-mask mantra applied indoors as well. Cabinet members, senators, Barrett family members and others mixed unencumbered at tightly packed, indoor receptions in the White House’s Diplomatic Room and Cabinet Room.

 

[Not_a_Number]

7 hours ago, lewelma said:

I am very liberal, but because I have conservative family members (not Trumpian republicans), I have worked very hard through deep reading to understand the core foundations of that worldview.  My father is one of the widest read individuals I know, and he is conservative. He worldview is based in logic.  If I can deeply understand why someone thinks a certain way, I can better explain my own viewpoints and also come to compromise. 

At this point, I’m a liberal-leaning moderate, at least in the context of US politics. But there are certainly conservative ideas with a lot of appeal to me.

[AmandaVT]

9 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Truth is....There is *VERY MUCH a liberal type of leaning of this board, and often, anyone who doesn't fit perfectly within the liberal thought processes tends to be shouted down.  This is a reflection of what is often happening in popular culture as a whole and in some cases, has been referred to as "cancel culture."   This board isn't immune to cancel culture.  I have said it before that so many people on this board who tend to have conservative views...or even those who are somewhat middle of the road......they (we) feel shouted down and "cancelled."  

 

Soooo....this may depend on where we live a bit. This board is where I come to hear from online friends with conservative viewpoints. My state is mostly quite liberal and I consider myself more middle of the road. In my real world, I have a mix of conservative and liberal friends, but even my most conservative Southern Baptist Liberty University graduating friends are more liberal than many on this board.

You see a very much liberal type board, I see a more conservative board with a mix of viewpoints. I'm betting the two perspectives are due, at least partly, to where we live and who we see on a daily basis. 

[Pen]

7 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ugh. And I remember a poster on here saying that people were getting sick at outdoor events in the Midwest. 

But maybe that's because people have been taking the outdoor thing too literally... it's not like being outdoors ensures that you don't get sick, it probably just takes a longer exposure time/worse luck? 

What happened at the outdoor barbecue, if you don't mind me asking? Was it entirely outdoors? 

 

I was not there. A neighbor told me and I do Not know accuracy as to details. It was supposed to be entirely outdoors—some life milestone event, I forget what, and using outdoors to minimize risk and be legal for the state rules iirc. It was in our rural area (at that time not confirmed to have any cases) and according to neighbors people attending included relatives from Portland, a small city cf NYC, but at that time high in cases for our state—it is within distance for going to for city things. It was apparently started by one or more of the visiting relatives.  My guess would be that bathrooms would have been used. Unless they had brought luggable loo type thing it seems unlikely that no one from Portland would have needed a bathroom.  Local persons maybe would have too... 

(I wrote “locals” and my walking on eggshells feelings about posting on WTM had me go back and make it “local persons” not to ever want to write something like blacks or whites or Hispanics or locals here where an adjective is made into a group noun.) 

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

Soooo....this may depend on where we live a bit. This board is where I come to hear from online friends with conservative viewpoints. My state is mostly quite liberal and I consider myself more middle of the road. In my real world, I have a mix of conservative and liberal friends, but even my most conservative Southern Baptist Liberty University graduating friends are more liberal than many on this board.

You see a very much liberal type board, I see a more conservative board with a mix of viewpoints. I'm betting the two perspectives are due, at least partly, to where we live and who we see on a daily basis. 

I agree with this completely.  I have a mixture of friends irl, but I definitely hear the conservative voices loudly and clearly here. I hear the liberal voices, as well.  I see both sides getting support for their views. 

[Not_a_Number]

16 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

Soooo....this may depend on where we live a bit. This board is where I come to hear from online friends with conservative viewpoints. My state is mostly quite liberal and I consider myself more middle of the road. In my real world, I have a mix of conservative and liberal friends, but even my most conservative Southern Baptist Liberty University graduating friends are more liberal than many on this board.

You see a very much liberal type board, I see a more conservative board with a mix of viewpoints. I'm betting the two perspectives are due, at least partly, to where we live and who we see on a daily basis. 

Yeah, this is a more conservative board than many places I participate. 

[Not_a_Number]

25 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I was not there. A neighbor told me and I do Not know accuracy as to details. It was supposed to be entirely outdoors—some life milestone event, I forget what, and using outdoors to minimize risk and be legal for the state rules iirc. It was in our rural area (at that time not confirmed to have any cases) and according to neighbors people attending included relatives from Portland, a small city cf NYC, but at that time high in cases for our state—it is within distance for going to for city things. It was apparently started by one or more of the visiting relatives.  My guess would be that bathrooms would have been used. Unless they had brought luggable loo type thing it seems unlikely that no one from Portland would have needed a bathroom.  Local persons maybe would have too... 

(I wrote “locals” and my walking on eggshells feelings about posting on WTM had me go back and make it “local persons” not to ever want to write something like blacks or whites or Hispanics or locals here where an adjective is made into a group noun.) 

Hmmm, worrisome. How long were they there? Do you know how many people get infected? 

And I definitely use the word "locals," lol.

[marbel]

9 hours ago, Pen said:

 

 

I think we are in same denomination. I wonder if any others also do it. 

Pretty sure most Christian denominations do it, as we are specifically told to do so; 1 Timothy 2:1-4:

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[Ausmumof3]

BNO says Sen Ron Johnson has also tested positive.

[Joker]

7 hours ago, Frances said:

I think there was also mingling before and after when people were talking face to face without masks, not just sitting side by side. Plus as others have mentioned, there were a number of indoor events too.

There’s also videos from the event and there was lots of hugging and cheek kissing - without masks, of course. I was honestly shocked. This was unlike any outdoor event I’ve been a part of or seen. 

[Ausmumof3]

Apparently the screening tests being used were the Abbott ones which aren’t as reliable with low viral load or asymptomatic people.  That might explain why the president didn’t test positive till shortly before becoming symptomatic.

[AmandaVT]

19 minutes ago, Joker said:

There’s also videos from the event and there was lots of hugging and cheek kissing - without masks, of course. I was honestly shocked. This was unlike any outdoor event I’ve been a part of or seen. 

It was jarring to see. Since school started last month, I haven't hugged anyone outside of DH and DS. I keep my mask on all day at school except when eating or drinking alone in my office. And I work in a county that has had 25 total cases since March. It's hard to wrap my head around seeing reckless behavior because we don't see much of it in real life right now.

[NewIma]

9 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Last I read 7 people associated with the nomination ceremony and 11 people associated with the debate in Cleveland. 

The Nomination ceremony seems important in that it was outside and presumably people attending got tests done.   Based on apparent statistics from outdoor protests, where many also have not been masked and were at close quarters etc—and yet cases seem to have been low, that figure for the SCOTUS Justice Nomination ceremony has surprised me. 

 

Previously I had expected lots of sickness spread even at outdoor activities, but then statistics seemed to indicate that I was wrong.  Now, I am not sure. Maybe many more people got sick, but did not get tested. 

I just saw a picture of people inside socializing without masks at the nomination ceremony, so it appears the whole thing was not outside.

[EmilyGF]

11 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

 

Truth is....There is *VERY MUCH a liberal type of leaning of this board, and often, anyone who doesn't fit perfectly within the liberal thought processes tends to be shouted down.  This is a reflection of what is often happening in popular culture as a whole and in some cases, has been referred to as "cancel culture."   This board isn't immune to cancel culture.  I have said it before that so many people on this board who tend to have conservative views...or even those who are somewhat middle of the road......they (we) feel shouted down and "cancelled."  

 

So, I'm a pretty conservative person (in the old-school sense) in general, but I think we've got a selection effect going on currently with respect to COVID and the proper response. Basically, people I know in person who "don't take COVID seriously," as my kids would say, are hanging out with friends, having dinner parties, going to homeschool coop. I am not, which means I feel pretty alienated from a number of my friends in real life. So, what do I do? I sign on to the forum and talk about COVID with "strangers" from around the world.

Because people who are living life as if nothing is going on are busier, their voices aren't going to be as strong online. I sure wouldn't be posting here as much if I were attending my normal coops, play groups, moms' night outs, museums, etc. Coming here gives me a sense that I'm not alone, despite what my friends are doing around me.

I love the variety of voices on this board. Let's keep it up, but with graciousness and thoughtfulness.

Emily

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmm, worrisome. How long were they there? Do you know how many people get infected? 

And I definitely use the word "locals," lol.

Several hours afaik. I don’t know numbers sick totals. Nor about possible spread thereafter before realizing situation. My impression was it was a smallish party but that most there caught the CV19–I don’t think any of the locals had severe cases. But possibly feeling horrible miserable even though technically “mild” (said my friend who knows them). 

We are getting to Pumpkin patch, hayrides, and corn mazes time which  in this area usually brings a lot of people from cities and added money in to some small farms that do those ...  that may become similarly fraught. Instructions were given to do things like cut corn maze swaths wider and limit number of people in them at one time, to not mix family groups on same hayride and so on.  But usually social mingling is part of the fun, bumping into others in maze, sharing a packed hayride...

[Not_a_Number]

14 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

So, I'm a pretty conservative person (in the old-school sense) in general, but I think we've got a selection effect going on currently with respect to COVID and the proper response. Basically, people I know in person who "don't take COVID seriously," as my kids would say, are hanging out with friends, having dinner parties, going to homeschool coop. I am not, which means I feel pretty alienated from a number of my friends in real life. So, what do I do? I sign on to the forum and talk about COVID with "strangers" from around the world.

Because people who are living life as if nothing is going on are busier, their voices aren't going to be as strong online. I sure wouldn't be posting here as much if I were attending my normal coops, play groups, moms' night outs, museums, etc. Coming here gives me a sense that I'm not alone, despite what my friends are doing around me.

I love the variety of voices on this board. Let's keep it up, but with graciousness and thoughtfulness.

Emily

That's an excellent point. This board has given me strength to follow through with our new way of life. I started posted in the COVID threads when one my local acquaintances, a homeschooling mom whose kid was in my class and was friends with my daughter, basically dumped me over not being willing to say COVID was a hoax. She's still not talking to me.

So you all have been moral support... 

[EKS]

12 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Truth is....There is *VERY MUCH a liberal type of leaning of this board, and often, anyone who doesn't fit perfectly within the liberal thought processes tends to be shouted down. 

It's possible that this is just a vocal minority.  I know that for the first many years I was here, many, many people were conservative.  The shouting down thing seems to be a hallmark of the new ultra left leaning crowd.  

[Not_a_Number]

14 minutes ago, EKS said:

It's possible that this is just a vocal minority.  I know that for the first many years I was here, many, many people were conservative.  The shouting down thing seems to be a hallmark of the new ultra left leaning crowd.  

I hope you're not including me as part of an ultra left-leaning crowd... since I AM new. 

[bibiche]

14 minutes ago, EKS said:

It's possible that this is just a vocal minority.  I know that for the first many years I was here, many, many people were conservative.  The shouting down thing seems to be a hallmark of the new ultra left leaning crowd.  

Hmm... I haven’t noticed an influx of  “ultra left leaning” posters. Seems to be the same old familiar posters. I have noticed a distinct shift from the extremely conservative “you’re not really a Christian” “How can I explain dinosaurs consistent with my Young Earth beliefs” board that I first encountered here a decade ago, but I attribute much of that shift to a broader cultural shift in the US in particular.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Hmm... I haven’t noticed an influx of  “ultra left leaning” posters. Seems to be the same old familiar posters. I have noticed a distinct shift from the extremely conservative “you’re not really a Christian” “How can I explain dinosaurs consistent with my Young Earth beliefs” board that I first encountered here a decade ago, but I attribute much of that shift to a broader cultural shift in the US in particular.

Yeah, I would have been a lot less interested in that board. 

[Katy]

Update being given now.

[Pawz4me]

Chris Christie is positive.