POTUS and FLOTUS have Covid-19

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Actually, I haven't found that, really. It has a bunch of groups of broadly aligned people, and even those people are usually only aligned along some axes. 

Right? Someone need only put up a thread about abortion or hormonal birth control, and you'll quickly see how popular my views are. 😉 I'm willing to bet I'm farther to the right on that issue than even @EmseB and @Bagels McGruffikin. 

I think we call each other out when we are not logical, or not sensitive, or not well-informed. I've been called out many a time and others have too. That is one of the many beautiful things about this board. We challenge each other. "Iron sharpens iron."

I really and truly haven't seen much true nastiness here lately. Maybe I'm missing it, but I remember the old days and there were a couple of posters who would literally make me cry, once in a while! Things seem infinitely more civil now.

Edited October 3, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

I had a personal life sad thing today

 So sorry Pen.

[ktgrok]

Just now, MercyA said:

Right? Someone need only put up a thread about abortion or hormonal birth control, and you'll quickly see how popular my views are. 😉 I'm willing to bet I'm farther to the right on that issue than even @EmseB and @Bagels McGruffikin. 

I think we call each other out when we are not logical, or not sensitive, or not well-informed. I've been called out many a time and others have too. That is one of the many beautiful things about this board. We challenge each other. "Iron sharpens iron."

I really and truly haven't seen much true nastiness here lately. Maybe I'm missing it, but I remember the old days and there a couple of posters who would literally make me cry, once in a while! Things seem infinitely more civil now.

Agree. 

I think sometimes people mistake discussion for nasty 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, MercyA said:

I really and truly haven't seen much true nastiness here lately. Maybe I'm missing it, but I remember the old days and there a couple of posters who would literally make me cry, once in a while! Things seem infinitely more civil now.

I haven't, either, but I suppose now that I'm one of the "popular girls," I may not know it 😛 . 

 

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I think we call each other out when we are not logical, or not sensitive, or not well-informed. I've been called out many a time and others have too. That is one of the many beautiful things about this board. We challenge each other. "Iron sharpens iron."

What I always try to do is to talk to people from the perspective of THEIR values and not mine. I will never change someone's values. I may hope to show someone that they are not living up to their own. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Yes, but if I've told you I find it mean or hurtful, then you should stop doing it, right? It's what you said earlier. 😉

You should certainly be able to ask people not to say things to you that you find hurtful 🙂 . 

[happi duck]

The "meh" and "shrug" thing interests me.  On the internet, imo, I think they both come across as a dismissive "screw you", even "f**k you".

Isn't that what they convey to everyone else?

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Demanding people change their language so as to not be hurtful as defined by the person demanding the language change, or apology, or concession of wrongs isn't benign. It can create a whole lotta eggshells one has to avoid. But this is probably a spin off thread.

Yes, I see that, and I am not always a fan of being peremptorily asked to change my language. Who gets to decide what language is OK, anyway? 

But on the other hand, we are a relatively small group, and we all know that some of us have lost family to COVID, and many more know people with lingering side-effects. It's also widely known many of us make a serious effort to avoid getting sick. So it's not shocking that a "meh" amounts to throwing a hand grenade into the discussion. I doubt this was particularly surprising to anyone. The reaction was predictable. 

[SereneHome]

8 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Right? Someone need only put up a thread about abortion or hormonal birth control, and you'll quickly see how popular my views are. 😉 I'm willing to bet I'm farther to the right on that issue than even @EmseB and @Bagels McGruffikin. 

I think we call each other out when we are not logical, or not sensitive, or not well-informed. I've been called out many a time and others have too. That is one of the many beautiful things about this board. We challenge each other. "Iron sharpens iron."

I really and truly haven't seen much true nastiness here lately. Maybe I'm missing it, but I remember the old days and there were a couple of posters who would literally make me cry, once in a while! Things seem infinitely more civil now.

See, right there!!

Not sensitive - you can't really define that bc, again, subjective, so calling people on it is well.....

Not well informed - that's incredibly condescending approach to take.

And then there is "wording" of thoughts that many seem to be so concern about, which again, leads to people being called insensitive and not well-informed.

So, yeah....you might not be seeing this is nasty, but it's certainly not that civil either. And it's not challenging anyone except to a fight.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Happymomof1 said:

But you guys were just saying you were just discussing. It wasn't nasty, but I perceive it as nasty and it makes me cry....see the issue

I'm not sure what I could have said to make you cry, honestly. What was it? 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

See, right there!!

Not sensitive - you can't really define that bc, again, subjective, so calling people on it is well.....

Not well informed - that's incredibly condescending approach to take.

And then there is "wording" of thoughts that many seem to be so concern about, which again, leads to people being called insensitive and not well-informed.

So, yeah....you might not be seeing this is nasty, but it's certainly not that civil either. And it's not challenging anyone except to a fight.

It's not condescending. She was saying that's the general rule she's seen -- people calling each other out for those reasons. It's a board that debates vigorously. You don't have to agree with her characterization to feel like those are valid reasons someone might call you out. Of course, "not well informed" and "not sensitive" are in the eye of the beholder. But then I think one arrives at truth via seeing a variety of different perspectives. 

[Garga]

12 minutes ago, happi duck said:

The "meh" and "shrug" thing interests me.  On the internet, imo, I think they both come across as a dismissive "screw you", even "f**k you".

Isn't that what they convey to everyone else?

No.

When I think of “meh” I picture a French man in the 1950s, leaning against a wall on a dimly lit street at night after the rain smoking a cigarette and shrugging his shoulders in a world weary manner as if to say, “Who can tell? Life is hard. Maybe yes, maybe no, I don’t know. Meh.”

It’s a world-weary “who can say?” shrug. 

 

ETA: It’s more about the worn down internal feelings of the person saying it, than an external f u to someone else.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Garga

[SereneHome]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's not condescending. She was saying that's the general rule she's seen -- people calling each other out for those reasons. It's a board that debates vigorously. You don't have to agree with her characterization to feel like those are valid reasons someone might call you out. Of course, "not well informed" and "not sensitive" are in the eye of the beholder. But then I think one arrives at truth via seeing a variety of different perspectives. 

It hasn't been my experience on this board.

As a matter of fact, it has been the opposite. I was told that my opinion was stupid and I didn't know what I was talking about.  The person never bothered to ask me how I came up to my conclusion or what sources I had.

There were other instances when no other perspectives have been even entertained, again, bc evidently I was just not well informed enough. And if I could be informed, then I would see the light of my wrongness.

I know people here see themselves as able to intelligently debate, for the most part, I found it differently. I had someone yelling at me and leaving in a huff, again, bc she just couldn't understand how I can be so insensitive and miss informed.

And I didn't say anything about Mercy talking about "logic" bc again, in my experience, posters get very emotional very quickly and there is no logic in sight....

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Happymomof1 said:

On my phone, not on my computer so I can't look it up. About to go to bed as well. But mainly it was the people ganging up on the other poster. When people hurt other people, it makes me cry and want to protect them.

I understand the impulse. I really do. I often do try to get between people piling on a person and that person, because I think everyone deserves a hearing. 

But I'm having a hard time with the perspective of "everything is FINE here, so it's no big deal" when there are people with dead relatives on the thread. It just doesn't seem to need saying. 

[Ausmumof3]

12 minutes ago, happi duck said:

The "meh" and "shrug" thing interests me.  On the internet, imo, I think they both come across as a dismissive "screw you", even "f**k you".

Isn't that what they convey to everyone else?

I’d say to me meh means something is bland or boring, or it’s something the person is indifferent to.  I wouldn’t say it’s the equivalent of obscene language. But I’m not always the best at reading tone in gestures etc.  I do mostly prefer words though sometimes emojis convey a lot.  

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Yes, but if I've told you I find it mean or hurtful, then you should stop doing it, right? It's what you said earlier. 😉

You can explain what part was hurtful, and then I can explain and we can figure out if what you thought I was saying, and what I was tryign to say, are the same thing. And if not, then I can try to explain it a different way, that makes sense to you, and avoids the hurt feelings. 

We may still disagree, but at least there is clarity. 

If you find that anyone disagreeing is upsetting, no, that can't be really fixed. But yeah, if you say to me that using XYZ language or term is upsetting to you, bcause it makes you feel like I hate you, then I will explain "wow, no! of course I don't hate you! What I meant was XYZ", and then I'll try not to use the phrasing that you said was upsetting. 

That's different than just saying that anyone who disagrees with each other is being mean. 

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SereneHome said:

It hasn't been my experience on this board.

As a matter of fact, it has been the opposite. I was told that my opinion was stupid and I didn't know what I was talking about.  The person never bothered to ask me how I came up to my conclusion or what sources I had.

There were other instances when no other perspectives have been even entertained, again, bc evidently I was just not well informed enough. And if I could be informed, then I would see the light of my wrongness.

I know people here see themselves as able to intelligently debate, for the most part, I found it differently. I had someone yelling at me and leaving in a huff, again, bc she just couldn't understand how I can be so insensitive and miss informed.

And I didn't say anything about Mercy talking about "logic" bc again, in my experience, posters get very emotional very quickly and there is no logic in sight....

I always ask for sources and am willing to debate until the cows come home. I also often take unpopular stances that people yell at me about. 

The COVID threads have debates that are months old. They have largely stayed civil. 

I can't speak to your experience, because I have no clue what opinion you were defending. It's easy to come up with opinions that may be genuinely offensive to people, and lots that should be debated without undue emotion. But after all, if people call you names and leave in a huff, then you win, right? There are always going to be judgmental people out there. If you stay above the fray and show your sources, consider it a point to you. 

[Catwoman]

33 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Idk the intention, and I think the illness of leaders be they Boris Johnson or Donald Trump is quite serious, but I read that and cracked up laughing.  

I had a personal life sad thing today, so thank you! a real out loud laugh was excellent!!!!  Better than chocolate!

I don’t know what happened today, Pen, but I’m sorry you’re sad and I hope you feel better soon. 

(((((Pen)))))

[Ausmumof3]

Re meh

maybe this is why the very different reactions if we’re interpreting that differently.

its not a phrase I hear in real life away from this forum.

[Clemsondana]

5 minutes ago, happi duck said:

The "meh" and "shrug" thing interests me.  On the internet, imo, I think they both come across as a dismissive "screw you", even "f**k you".

Isn't that what they convey to everyone else?

I haven't, and won't, post in this discussion otherwise but this point stood out to me.  When I see Meh it usually means 'not a big deal' or 'you see it your way, I see it mine, no worries' or something like that.  

And, I wonder if part of what some people are finding disorienting is the idea that everybody wants to debate things vigorously.  When somebody asks a 'Why do you/some people do/think X?' type of question, I think that there is a set of people who are happy to explain their beliefs/thoughts/experiences/observations but have no interest in defending them.  I assume that they're just gathering information.  Like, if people ask 'How is your area handling school starting or shutdowns or restaurants?' or 'How does your co-op deal with situation Y?' I'm happy to answer so that the questioner can have a variety of answers to choose from, but I have absolutely no interest in defending the choices that I'm describing.  I'm actually not opposed to debate, but it often comes across as 'let me point out why you're wrong' instead of 'Hmm...that's an interesting perspective...we do it differently, but I could see how you could see it that way'.   I will debate as a form of problem solving, but I don't have any desire to spend my free time debating people online.  

[Frances]

52 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I agree and disagree. Yes, who we elect to the highest office speaks volumes about who we are as a society.

I think what any of them say means very VERY little. I think what they do matters 100% more. And that's what I judge them on. Their actions. Not speeches and tweets.

 

I judge them on all of it. As I wrote in the original post, it’s both talking and treating others. At least in the current case for me they are very, very consistent. The behavior is very consistent with words, especially when it comes to COVID, the topic under discussion.

 

And spreading misinformation is an action, it is doing. Especially when you know the power of your words and influence.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Frances

[Catwoman]

13 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

But you guys were just saying you were just discussing. It wasn't nasty, but I perceive it as nasty and it makes me cry....see the issue

If any of our posts are making you cry, it’s time to step away from the computer for a while and try to figure out why people who don’t even know you are able to hold that level of power over you. 

If you are truly that sensitive, online forums may not be the best place for you. I’m saying that out of concern, not to say you shouldn’t be here. 

[SereneHome]

Just now, Frances said:

I judge them on all of it. At least in the current case for me they are very, very consistent. The behavior is very consistent with words, especially when it comes to COVID.

I understand. I just have different scales, I guess. I won't say anything else bc I don't want to get banned for political conversations.

 

[ktgrok]

From my TV boyfriend, Van Jones ( I love him very, very much)

"I don’t want to argue with anyone about this. But for me, sympathy and empathy are not limited resources.

I spend time in prison with people who live and work in prisons who have done awful things. And I have learned that people can do monstrous things — and still be worthy of love, sympathy and empathy. Yes, before they repent.Yes, before they atone. Still worthy. Already worthy.

I know we all make mistakes, do dumb things and take irresponsible risks with our own lives and others. But grace is (by definition) not earned and not deserved — but something we all will at some point need. And I am not going to make my heart smaller to punish Trump or anyone else.

That said, I know others feel differently. And I don’t want to argue about it."

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Happymomof1 said:

That is not how I interpreted what she said. Sigh...back to my parents again....

How did you interpret it? 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

I will debate as a form of problem solving, but I don't have any desire to spend my free time debating people online.  

That's reasonable. And if that's how one feels, one should probably not continue to participate on contentious debate threads 😉 

[Not_a_Number]

OK, so, I'm not sure why we're debating the meaning of the word meh, when this was the quote:

 

"Meh, not too worried honestly. Praying for their recovery and that they have mild cases. There are advantages to having the best care in the world available though, especially when the virus is incredibly mild in most people, even in their age demographic." 

 

The message here is really clear. The virus is no big deal for most of us, even overweight 70-year olds. It doesn't really MATTER what "meh" means, specifically, because it's not really changing the message. 

One should be entitled to say that, of course. But the fact that this will offend people who've had relatives die or get very sick is really obvious. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Animula V. Blandula said:

Because a poster upthread said she thought it meant f*** you, and because language is interesting 🙂

True enough 🙂 . I think it mostly depends on context!! I've certainly said "meh" in my life, and whether I mean it as a middle finger really depends whether a show of not caring would be equivalent to a middle finger or not 😉 

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

OK, so, I'm not sure why we're debating the meaning of the word meh, when this was the quote:

 

Because the forum glitch has deprived you all of your friendly, neighbourhood* moderators.

*Neighbourhood being a relative term, seeing how my closest boardie is over 200km away. 😛

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, happi duck said:

The "meh" and "shrug" thing interests me.  On the internet, imo, I think they both come across as a dismissive "screw you", even "f**k you".

Isn't that what they convey to everyone else?

Interesting...I don’t see it at that level of hostility. I do use “meh” sometimes but I, personally, hope I don’t use it when discussing a disease that has killed a million people. To me it’s like, “I tried the Tofu Burger. It was meh.” Like, I am not compelled to care about it; it wasn’t worth thinking about more. Surely won’t eat one again because it was not worth my money or time. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Interesting...I don’t see it at that level of hostility. I do use “meh” sometimes but I, personally, hope I don’t use it when discussing a disease that has killed a million people. To me it’s like, “I tried the Tofu Burger. It was meh.” Like, I am not compelled to care about it; it wasn’t worth thinking about more. Surely won’t eat one again because it was not worth my money or time. 

Yeah, that's how I usually use it. But if someone was crying and yelling and telling me how I hurt their feelings, and I looked stony-faced and said "meh," it would definitely be an F U. Sometimes, a show of indifference can be a slap in the face. 

As I said, it depends on context. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Heartwood said:

What’s obvious is that’s how you interpreted it. 
 

Meh, I don’t read it that way. 

...the quote says the virus is incredibly mild in most people. I'm very barely paraphrasing. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Heartwood said:

Why don’t you go back and read all she had to say about it?  I think she explains herself quite clearly and still cares about those who’ve suffered and died or, meh, don’t check it out.

I mean, I also care about people who've died because a brick fell on their head and think their deaths are no less tragic than COVID deaths. Nonetheless, I don't think that's a major public health issue and I would probably sound pretty indifferent to proposed solutions to this problem. 

So, arguing that the virus is relatively harmless is different from saying that you don't care about anyone dying from it. 

I'm also not really sure what the point of all the meh's is... 

[Frances]

20 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I understand. I just have different scales, I guess. I won't say anything else bc I don't want to get banned for political conversations.

 

Yes, it’s likely people are coming at it from different perspectives. And I don’t disagree that actions are very important.  I am confused though by judging everyday people based on what they are saying about the president being sick (and concluding it is evil in some cases), but not judging the president, who has astronomically greater influence, on what he says about others, both individually and as groups. It’s not as though anyone took any action or tried to get him sick. 

[SereneHome]

21 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

OK, so, I'm not sure why we're debating the meaning of the word meh, when this was the quote:

 

"Meh, not too worried honestly. Praying for their recovery and that they have mild cases. There are advantages to having the best care in the world available though, especially when the virus is incredibly mild in most people, even in their age demographic." 

 

The message here is really clear. The virus is no big deal for most of us, even overweight 70-year olds. It doesn't really MATTER what "meh" means, specifically, because it's not really changing the message. 

One should be entitled to say that, of course. But the fact that this will offend people who've had relatives die or get very sick is really obvious. 

But it's not the fact for everyone. It didn't offend me and my husband's uncle died from Covid. It didn't offend other people.  Just as she said "most people have mild symptoms".

So, was the message unclear or was the perception of the message distorted?

And that kind of brings me back to one of the reasons I first posted on this thread - people get accused of certain feelings, or lack thereof, just based on someone's perception. And THAT being treated as a fact. Isn't it a problem?

[fairfarmhand]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

Am I the only one for whom you guys aren't just "anonymous people on a message board?"   I mean, at this point, some of you are among people I've "known" longer than anyone else in my life.  I mean, you guys show up in my dreams.  And especially during covid, when I'm not seeing people in real life much, you guys are very much real to me.

 

6 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

No, no you are not alone! If I didn't have y'all to "talk" to there's no way I would have made it through the past seven months.

Many many of you guys are friends. I l think a lot about you all. I've had this message board for socialization for about a decade, which is longer than I've known most of my close friends.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, SereneHome said:

But it's not the fact for everyone. It didn't offend me and my husband's uncle died from Covid. It didn't offend other people.  Just as she said "most people have mild symptoms".

So, was the message unclear or was the perception of the message distorted?

And that kind of brings me back to one of the reasons I first posted on this thread - people get accused of certain feelings, or lack thereof, just based on someone's perception. And THAT being treated as a fact. Isn't it a problem?

It didn't offend you, but it offended some people. I don't think there's any contradiction or misinterpretation in that fact. People's emotional reactions vary. Given the many, many interactions over the previous months, I don't think anyone's reaction was a surprise. 

[MercyA]

57 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

See, right there!!

Not sensitive - you can't really define that bc, again, subjective, so calling people on it is well.....

Not well informed - that's incredibly condescending approach to take.

And then there is "wording" of thoughts that many seem to be so concern about, which again, leads to people being called insensitive and not well-informed.

So, yeah....you might not be seeing this is nasty, but it's certainly not that civil either. And it's not challenging anyone except to a fight.

Let me give a personal example. There was a time when I truly did not understand victim blaming as it related to cases of rape and sexual harassment. It's embarrassing to say, but there it is. 

I freely admit it was something I hadn't thought through well enough, if at all. I was not well-informed, and that is the truth. I said some insensitive things here that were probably hurtful to other people. And I was called out on it, and I learned from that.

Was it subjective for people to call me insensitive? Well, perhaps. But that doesn't mean they were wrong. If a group of kind, well-intentioned, intelligent women are telling you you are coming across as insensitive, maybe it's time to stop for a minute and consider that.

And I hope I am never condescending to anyone who is not well-informed through no fault of their own. Forgive me if I have ever done that! But I do assume most women on this forum have both the skill and the resources to become better informed, to be able to distinguish between good sources of information and bad ones, and to apply consistency and logic to their own viewpoints.

Edited October 3, 2020 by MercyA

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I have said it before that so many people on this board who tend to have conservative views...or even those who are somewhat middle of the road......they (we) feel shouted down and "cancelled."  

I think it depends how you define "middle of the road." I'm not a flaming liberal by any stretch of the imagination. I've had as many contentious fights with people on the far left as I have on this board.

Also, no one is canceling anyone. This board is a place where discussion is welcome. "Cancel culture" is much worse, and I can tell you that, because I've seen it in action. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Heartwood said:

I think I’ve said enough about the virus with you for now. I have pointed you back to what BagelsMcGruffin (or however she spells it) said and clarified, but you want to zero in on a certain point that I have no interest in discussing with you. Pick a bone with someone else. 

And somehow, I'm the mean girl in this scenario.

[SereneHome]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

Yes, it’s likely people are coming at it from different perspectives. And I don’t disagree that actions are very important.  I am confused though by judging everyday people based on what they are saying about the president being sick (and concluding it is evil in some cases), but not judging the president, who has astronomically greater influence, on what he says about others, both individually and as groups. It’s not as though anyone took any action or tried to get him sick. 

I think I understand what your question is....and I had to stop and think for a minute.....

So, I pay very little attention to people's words, I pay a lot of attention to their actions. That multiplies 1000 when it comes to politicians. I don't listen to anything they say, I pay attention to what they do.

But no one should be glad when someone else is sick. And if Trump said anything to the extent, that's between him and whoever he prays to at night. But when so so many people in our society are now expressing such sentiments, that's very concerning to me, bc that's a much much bigger problem, in my opinion. Trump came and he will go, but we, as a society are deteriorating, and to me that's scary.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Certainly, this board is not as bad as it could be.  I have been on boards (and left them) where things are worse.

But I have described this before, in as neutral terms as possible......a very large number of people who hold viewpoints that aren't liberal in nature feel shouted down and just quit offering their opinion.  Like...a lot.  

Again, it depends what you mean by "not liberal in nature." I'm somewhat of an elitist. I support the right to debate vigorously in a way that's not currently supported by a lot of the very progressive left. 

If you're saying that supporters of the president get shouted down... well, I believe that. But I don't think those people are flaming liberals. 

[MercyA]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

And somehow, I'm the mean girl in this scenario.

On Wednesdays we wear pink. Just FYI.

[SereneHome]

48 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I always ask for sources and am willing to debate until the cows come home. I also often take unpopular stances that people yell at me about. 

The COVID threads have debates that are months old. They have largely stayed civil. 

I can't speak to your experience, because I have no clue what opinion you were defending. It's easy to come up with opinions that may be genuinely offensive to people, and lots that should be debated without undue emotion. But after all, if people call you names and leave in a huff, then you win, right? There are always going to be judgmental people out there. If you stay above the fray and show your sources, consider it a point to you. 

That made me laugh 🙂

The thing is, I love a good, unemotional debate and I don't get to have those anymore....so I would love to have it, I am not interested in winning, just learning.

And yes, I agree, you are very very good at staying civil

[MercyA]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

And somehow, I'm the mean girl in this scenario.

(Seriously, though, I have never seen you be anything but measured, calm, and pleasant. It's truly admirable.)

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SereneHome said:

So, I pay very little attention to people's words, I pay a lot of attention to their actions. That multiplies 1000 when it comes to politicians. I don't listen to anything they say, I pay attention to what they do.

Yes, I also pay attention to what they do. And I think a lot of people who pay attention to what the president does are winding up hoping he feels sick enough to take it seriously, because his actions may lead to hundreds more thousands dying. 

 

Just now, SereneHome said:

But no one should be glad when someone else is sick. And if Trump said anything to the extent, that's between him and whoever he prays to at night. But when so so many people in our society are now expressing such sentiments, that's very concerning to me, bc that's a much much bigger problem, in my opinion. Trump came and he will go, but we, as a society are deteriorating, and to me that's scary.

But you realize people who are saying that are sometimes just hoping to save other people's lives, right? 

Now, as I said, if I had my druthers, he'd be fit as a fiddle in a day, but he'll also decide to take the virus seriously. We'll have nationwide contact tracing and good public health messaging. Maybe we'll distribute N-95s for everyone. Maybe at least masking will stop being a political issue. 

But I understand why people think the chances of not having half a million dead by the end of it hinges on the president being a bit more sick than a cold. 

[Pen]

58 minutes ago, happi duck said:

The "meh" and "shrug" thing interests me.  On the internet, imo, I think they both come across as a dismissive "screw you", even "f**k you".

Isn't that what they convey to everyone else?

 

I had a misunderstanding myself with use of 🤷‍♀️which I understood to mean “I don’t know” but others took to be a rude dismissive shrug.

So I am very aware now of that sort of issue where intended meaning and received meaning differ hugely in tone and emotion. 

 

Irl I also used a word similar to sad but not sad when responding about a loss some had had with which I wanted to offer comfort, but it turned out my choice carried a pejorative connotation.   I felt bad about that for a long time and still cringe when I see the word. 

 

There are a number of subset cohorts of ethnicities etc related to Covid where I feel like it is walking on eggshells to write any word related to that here lest it be jumped on. 

 

I try to give people grace and assume good intentions and caring.  I don’t always live up to my own ideal in that.

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

That made me laugh 🙂

The thing is, I love a good, unemotional debate and I don't get to have those anymore....so I would love to have it, I am not interested in winning, just learning.

And yes, I agree, you are very very good at staying civil

Thank you, and I'm not being sarcastic -- I really appreciate it! That's high praise. 

I've kind of had to develop this skill, lol, because I disagree with people so often. As I said, I'm a contrarian. So I have to figure out how to get along with people I don't agree with basically all the time. Mostly, I try to disagree without making it personal. It doesn't work all the time, but it helps. 

(Now, how am I going to go back to our local homeschooling center when one of the other teachers still isn't talking to me because I wouldn't go along with calling COVID a hoax, sigh? Sometimes, staying civil isn't enough.) 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am not saying "supporters of the president get shouted down" and by even bringing such a thing up, which was no where in my post, it kinda points to what the problem is.  Part of the problem is presuming that because a person holds X view....they must also support Y......which is often what is done when you (general you) don't really know a person.

The fact that someon might support A concept.....that the president might also support....doesn't mean that they are automatically a supporter of Trump.

I agree, but what I'm saying is lots of other conservative ideas are very much present on the board. I think a lot of the posters are actually pretty moderate. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Happymomof1 said:

But you guys were just saying you were just discussing. It wasn't nasty, but I perceive it as nasty and it makes me cry....see the issue

 

I have been in a state today where interactions that I think would not normally lead me to tears have been doing so.

And I noticed that in someone else irl today too. 

I wonder if 2020 stress reactions are adding to our online reactions and feelings too? 

 

 

[ktgrok]

19 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 

Truth is....There is *VERY MUCH a liberal type of leaning of this board, and often, anyone who doesn't fit perfectly within the liberal thought processes tends to be shouted down. 

 

But...how is the this even a liberal/conservative issue? A virus, sickness, people dying...that's not big government vs small government or economic theory or whatever....

19 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

 

So, was the message unclear or was the perception of the message distorted?

And that kind of brings me back to one of the reasons I first posted on this thread - people get accused of certain feelings, or lack thereof, just based on someone's perception. And THAT being treated as a fact. Isn't it a problem?

Personally, that's why I usually try to ask questions to clarify, rather than assume intent. Now, if they refuse to clarify, that's telling, but I try to give them that chance. 

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 

But I have described this before, in as neutral terms as possible......a very large number of people who hold viewpoints that aren't liberal in nature feel shouted down and just quit offering their opinion.  Like...a lot.  

Again, now is this a liberal vs conservative issue in any way?

8 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

 

But no one should be glad when someone else is sick. And if Trump said anything to the extent, that's between him and whoever he prays to at night. But when so so many people in our society are now expressing such sentiments, that's very concerning to me, bc that's a much much bigger problem, in my opinion. Trump came and he will go, but we, as a society are deteriorating, and to me that's scary.

This I agree with. When I see Christians talking that way it is upsetting. That's not what our faith teaches.