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POTUS and FLOTUS have Covid-19


YaelAldrich
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3 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

He did manage to walk to the helicopter and from the helicopter to a waiting car. Those are good signs.

Bill

 

Yes, they are. Since there is an executive suite there, I could see the medical powers that be wanting him to be there in order to monitor everything more closely. It would be a lot easier to get appropriate care if things starting tanking or anything.

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4 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

It’s been a long time coming, this is just the last straw. For the sake of boundaries and mental health and not enjoying the time here anymore, it needs to be done. There are too few people who I genuinely enjoy and who treat me with any sort of respect or fairness left. But to those who have been sweet and supportive and been able to disagree without assuming intent or slander or poking and picking at me personally, hugs and best wishes.

You are not alone. I have “only” been here 10 years and this thread is the last straw for me. It really is.  

I came here today specifically predicting and expecting some of the comments on this thread by the usual suspects (although we are missing a few) and  I find myself just done.  It’s so predictable it’s funny.  And sad.  For me- it’s uninspired, predictable and hardly educated or well trained in any way. 

In response to not saying things well or tone or whatever..... listen If we have to word everything perfectly to post here or risk members shredding us apart (Which happens, always), well frankly that is not the kind of training or education I am looking for. If that it the “standard” of a online message board, I don’t want anything of what you guys are selling or allowing anymore. What good is education or knowledge if you act like an a##hole? 
 

There has been the sanctimonious disconnect here for several years and it’s getting worse, so I’m done. The slow creep of disrespectful behavior and “non political talk” is gross, obvious, tolerated and not a “community” that I want to be part of or associated with at all.  There is no discourse. No one is listening to anyone anymore.  It’s gross. 

I have appreciated the help, advice and input during my time here.  Trully. 

 

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8 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

But again, whatever I am doing to stay safe, however I am feeling about this nightmare - it's my feelings. Someone else thinking it's a hoax or govt trying to control us or just another cold has no bearings or SHOULDN'T have any bearing on how I feel about it or what I am doing.

 

It doesn't have any bearing on how I feel about what I'm doing. It might have bearing on how much patience I have for people who are constantly being dismissive. That being said, I also haven't said anything rude. I've merely suggested that saying "meh" might scan as insensitive as people and explained why that may be. 

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5 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

It's bad when it's acceptable to wish a rough go of an illness on someone. I mean, there are politicians who I think are flat out evil, and I wouldn't say that I hope they have a rough time with an illness just to teach them some sort of lesson. People here said the same thing when Boris Johnson took ill as well.

It's not randomly wishing an illness on someone, and you ought to know it. It's wishing someone took it seriously. 

In the best of all possible worlds, they wouldn't have gotten sick but would then also take it seriously. Since it's abundantly clear that "taking it seriously" isn't happening without getting sick, some people are indulging in wishful thinking about being sick helping people get serious. 

Again, I would like to underscore that my preferred option is 

a) not sick 

b) takes public health advice. 

Also, I want a pony, and my chance of getting one in this lovely Manhattan apartment is about equal to my chance of a) and b) combined. 

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2 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

When this broke, the only person I could think of was Barron Trump.

I am the mother of a tall, gangly 13 year old who towers over me  and tries to be brave and grown up in front of the world, but would completely freak out if both his parents were sick at the same time. All day long I have been thinking a lot about him.

I am glad he tested negative. I hope he has someone he can talk to and get comfort from because even the White House or especially the White House can be a scary and lonely place for a 13 year old kid. 

 

 

Yeah, my heart goes out to him. I hope he stays healthy and can be emotionally healthy, too. 

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8 minutes ago, LarlaB said:

In response to not saying things well or tone or whatever..... listen If we have to word everything perfectly to post here or risk members shredding us apart (Which happens, always), well frankly that is not the kind of training or education I am looking for. If that it the “standard” of a online message board, I don’t want anything of what you guys are selling or allowing anymore. What good is education or knowledge if you act like an a##hole? 
 

You do NOT have to have to say things perfectly!! You have to have some empathy for people who have dead or very sick family members from this virus. You swallow your "mehs" and go talk to people who haven't had tragedies in their life due to something you don't give a hoot about, because that's the POLITE thing to do, whatever else you think. In the same way that you don't show up to an AA meeting and start talking about how a drink or two never hurt YOU, personally, and why CAN'T you talk about it here?? 

Come on. This is a minimal standard of human decency. 

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4 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

So, I personally think this is the worst news we could have at this point.

This isn't good for the USA. I could not, do not, wish anyone to get sick with Covid-19, regardless of if it's mild or not. 

I think that the POTUS getting it does have a sense poetic justice to it. To take an analogy to describe my thoughts: we hold people to a higher standard with the more responsibility they have, or the more knowledge. I hold teachers to a higher standard about explaining their position. I hold priests to a higher standard in living in a Christian manner. I hold my mayor to a higher standard in terms of showing support to community events, etc. When we see people held to (fair and fairly) higher standards, we do get a stronger reaction of "justice" when they disregard the standard and suffer consequences that could have been avoided.

The POTUS's COVID response has not lived up to my standard. It's not that I *wanted* it to happen, but I am not surprised that it did and it feels more fair because of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander": he thought "it is what it is" about the goose getting infected, so it should be good enough for him, too.

It shouldn't be the people not in a position of power that have to pay the price of a decision, it should be the decision-makers to bear the brunt of things. This isn't normally how it happens, but seeing a glimpse of this possibly occurring in this one instance and recognizing it as such doesn't make someone a bad person. Reveling in it would be taking it too far; but if you have lost a loved one I can see how it would be easy to place your anger there.

However, I say again, I do not wish it on anyone, even him. And I feel like this is the worst thing that could happen to the country at this particular time. Even if it is mild, it is disruptive during an already difficult election time, in really the last possible moment. If we had to choose a time for this to happen, summer would have been a better time. Assuming mild symptoms, a summer infection vs an election-month infection would have been much better. 

And I don't see anything "good" coming from this: either he dies (really bad), he is incapacitated for a stretch of time (really bad), he gets mild symptoms and then disregards that any other option could have happened or that others are lesser for having worse outcomes (really bad).

This is not a good thing. Nothing will be learned from this, no true justice will be gotten from it.

But here we are.

Yes.  Financial markets etc have gone wonky again, world stability feels iffy and so many people have potentially been exposed to this virus.  It’s all kind of depressing.

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31 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

from what I pieced together from the news networks, I think that whereas his symptom was "fatigue" a few hours ago, he has since developed a fever and that could have been a trigger for those in charge of his treatment to make this decision. Perhaps they think that it is best not to let the symptoms progress given his age and his title in the government.

I think he wanted to be able to walk unaided to the helicopter.  If things went south and he waited too long, it would look worse.  They can keep things more private at the hospital, I would think.

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I think I saw he was getting monoclonal antibody treatment?  That may be easier to provide in a hospital setting.  I think they will be a lot more cautious with him as well.  It’s probably also a lot easier to keep his condition private if necessary if things get worse and he’s already in a place to receive care.  Seeing POTUS go away in an ambulance it probably not a signal anyone wants to send to America’s enemies.

Edited by Ausmumof3
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2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I think he wanted to be able to walk unaided to the helicopter.  If things went south and he waited too long, it would look worse.  They can keep things more private at the hospital, I would think.

You are right, it would look really bad if he had to be put on a wheelchair for transport to Walter reed later on ... 

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

I think I saw he was getting monoclonal antibody treatment?  That may be easier to provide in a hospital setting.  I think they will be a lot more cautious with him as well.

That antibody treatment seems to be a simple IV. That could easily be done in the WH Medical Unit.

They must have strong concerns if they are taking both these steps. Experimental non-approved meds and a trip to Walter Reed.

Bill

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20 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think I saw he was getting monoclonal antibody treatment?  That may be easier to provide in a hospital setting.  I think they will be a lot more cautious with him as well.  It’s probably also a lot easier to keep his condition private if necessary if things get worse and he’s already in a place to receive care.  Seeing POTUS go away in an ambulance it probably not a signal anyone wants to send to America’s enemies.

It's a shame that people are dying because they can't get these treatments (and because POTUS said it was a hoax) and now he's getting the best treatment, well maybe... before he's even been sick for 24 hours. 

Edited by hippiemamato3
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Bagels said meh in how it had played out in her circles, as in everyone had gotten a cold. That was her experience and went along with a post hoping the president had an equally meh case.

A poster immediately pounced with the fact that 200k dead is not meh. Bagels never said that, and given her posting history I personally don't know why anyone would assume that she takes that scale of loss of life lightly, no matter her personal experience with covid and her view of it as an individual experience.

I say this as someone who has unreasonable anxiety about covid given my demographic, and as someone who really would cower in fear and not let anyone leave the house if given the chance. (As an aside, I am thankful I don't have that option, or I could really spiral into actual agoraphobia and really project that unhealthily onto my kids, I think). I don't take offense at her perspective or word choice or life experience and I have not read anything she says as minimizing a very real loss of life or other's more elevated concerns or worries about the virus (but I think there should also be space on the forum to debate those things, too, without people taking things personally).

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Just now, lewelma said:

I will say that given he is being tested daily, I'm a bit concerned at how quickly his symptoms ramped up. We are talking 24 hours, right?

I think from listening to Norman Swann on the Coronacast that the first day of symptoms is the best day for testing because you’re most likely to be shedding and test positive.  It seems likely that maybe he’s had it for a day or two but only just got the positive test.  Also I’m guessing with symptoms like fatigue presumably they are things that are easy to ignore or put down to overwork.  But if you are looking for the symptoms because you know you have virus you might be more aware of them earlier.

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49 minutes ago, Calizzy said:

The thing that I actually find interesting about this situation is that Melania actually has it too. I've always assumed that their marriage is a bit of a show, and not a genuine relationship. But apparently they do have a close enough relationship that it spread between them quickly. 

They both work closely with Hope Hicks, and they flew to and from the debate, with Hicks, on AF1. 

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3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I will say that given he is being tested daily, I'm a bit concerned at how quickly his symptoms ramped up. We are talking 24 hours, right?

Agree. Given that he's tested daily and as far as we know first tested positive last night/early this a.m. how rapidly he developed symptoms seems worrisome.

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53 minutes ago, Calizzy said:

The thing that I actually find interesting about this situation is that Melania actually has it too. I've always assumed that their marriage is a bit of a show, and not a genuine relationship. But apparently they do have a close enough relationship that it spread between them quickly. 

She's been on the campaign trail with him.  We have no idea what their bedroom situation is, just that they've both been exposed to the same people in recent weeks. I read something about the Supreme Court Nomination being a potential super spreader event, but nothing is conclusive yet.

6 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I will say that given he is being tested daily, I'm a bit concerned at how quickly his symptoms ramped up. We are talking 24 hours, right?

 

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Agree. Given that he's tested daily and as far as we know first tested positive last night/early this a.m. how rapidly he developed symptoms seems worrisome.

 

How do we know POTUS is getting tested daily?  I've read staff members are getting tested "nearly daily" and more often if they have symptoms, but I've never seen that the President is being frequently tested.

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2 minutes ago, Katy said:

How do we know POTUS is getting tested daily?  I've read staff members are getting tested "nearly daily" and more often if they have symptoms, but I've never seen that the President is being frequently tested.

Interesting. Maybe not.  

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1 minute ago, Katy said:

 

She's been on the campaign trail with him.  We have no idea what their bedroom situation is, just that they've both been exposed to the same people in recent weeks. I read something about the Supreme Court Nomination being a potential super spreader event, but nothing is conclusive yet.

 

 

How do we know POTUS is getting tested daily?  I've read staff members are getting tested "nearly daily" and more often if they have symptoms, but I've never seen that the President is being frequently tested.

Reports vary: McEnany says mulitple times daily. Trump says every one to two days. 

https://thegrio.com/2020/07/22/trump-contradicts-press-secretary-test-covid/ 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/donald-trump-tested-for-covid19-nearly-once-a-day/news-story/811f8588518b7380539953e489ea41fd

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10 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

That antibody treatment seems to be a simple IV. That could easily be done in the WH Medical Unit.

They must have strong concerns if they are taking both these steps. Experimental non-approved meds and a trip to Walter Reed.

Bill

I guess maybe because it’s experimental ?  If there’s some kind of safety event he needs to be where he can get help.  I don’t know I’m clutching at straws a bit. I just don’t want to think about how messed up things will be if he does have a serious case and get incapacitated.  
 

here’s a little about the antibody treatment if anyone’s interested.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/clinical-trials-monoclonal-antibodies-prevent-covid-19-now-enrolling

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2 minutes ago, Katy said:

How do we know POTUS is getting tested daily?  I've read staff members are getting tested "nearly daily" and more often if they have symptoms, but I've never seen that the President is being frequently tested.

See this from The Hill on 5/7/20 (I would copy/paste but for some reason it won't let me.)

Now obviously with this POTUS one can't assume just because he said it that it's true. But I believe it's been relatively widely reported that he's tested daily.

 

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I really don't know what to think except I hope everyone recovers.  I think hoping someone gets the right amount of sick to change policy is a pipe dream. He is going to do what he thinks will get him re-elected.

 

I think Bagels deserves some grace.  

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56 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

 

People can not keep holding others responsible for their own reactions and feelings.

No, but also, people cannot just say whatever they want and not expect people to have a reaction to it. 

If my husband, whom I love dearly, is using phrasing that is hurtful, I'm going to say something. Not to attack him or be mean, but to let him know. 

I'm not holding him responsible for my feelings, but I'm sure going to let him know why the words were upsetting to me. 

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

I guess maybe because it’s experimental ?  If there’s some kind of safety event he needs to be where he can get help.  I don’t know I’m clutching at straws a bit. I just don’t want to think about how messed up things will be if he does have a serious case and get incapacitated.  
 

here’s a little about the antibody treatment if anyone’s interested.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/clinical-trials-monoclonal-antibodies-prevent-covid-19-now-enrolling

They had an official with the firm that supplied this experimental treatment on the news just now and--as far as administration goes--he made it sound no more complicated than a simple IV.

The WH has a fairly advanced in-house medical unit. Makes me think they had reasons to move aggressively, as opposed to being "an abundance of caution." But it is all speculation, to be sure.

Bill

 

 

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1 hour ago, PeachyDoodle said:

I agree. There is definitely a popular clique here and crossing them will bring out the daggers. It's always been that way in the 8-10 years I've been here but it seems worse since the last board upgrade. I have left a few times and for some reason I keep coming back but I'm not entirely sure why.

 

Is there? I'm a moderator and I don't know who counts in this popular clique. 

-------

I've already asked you all to stop with the interpersonal stuff. I don't want to have to lock the thread.

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13 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I have made that mistake several times since the board upgrade. I think the edit button used to be at the bottom, but now it’s in the upper right corner. I was hitting the quote button by mistake when I tried to edit. Maybe that’s what happened to you? Took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong. 

Ah, that's it! I did edit, but then tried to edit again and must've posted again.

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4 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Except if you look at things from his point of view it makes total sense, so I have no reason to be upset. He isn't wrong. That said, neither am I. I always try to look at his point of view first.

It's not about being right or wrong. It's about hearing that you hurt someone, and then deciding how to go forward from there. Once you know something is hurtful, most people will try to change their wording so they don't hurt someone again, right?

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53 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I can completely understand why @Bagels McGruffikin left. I haven't been on here as long as most of you but oh boy is this board intolerant. If one's views contradict what popular girls think on that particular day - it gets pretty nasty.

Back to topic at hand - I think it speaks volumes about where we are as a society based on what people are saying about president being sick. G-d help us all bc while I am not a Christian, I know my religion has a few opinions on what happens when people are that evil to each other.

 

I think who we elect as our highest leader and cheer on and support with money and votes and how that person talks (and tweets) about and treats others speaks volumes about who we are as a society. How we respond when our leader dismisses scientific information and purposely sows misinformation, resulting in the illness and death of many of our fellow citizens also speaks volumes about who we are as a society. Not condemning evil is supporting it.

I wish it didn’t take someone getting the virus to take it seriously and follow the advice of public health and medical experts and encourage others to do the same, especially when they have such enormous power and influence. Unfortunately, it hasn’t worked to date. But if a mild case with no long term health effects (and certainly not death) can save some innocent lives, I’ll take it, given how many have already been lost and how many more will likely have long term negative health effects.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/evanega-et-al-coronavirus-misinformation-submitted-07-23-20-1/080839ac0c22bca8/full.pdf

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Just now, ktgrok said:

It's not about being right or wrong. It's about hearing that you hurt someone, and then deciding how to go forward from there. Once you know something is hurtful, most people will try to change their wording so they don't hurt someone again, right?

I think that depends on if what was said was truly hurtful or not. And who gets to make that determination is an interesting discussion in and of itself. 

Demanding people change their language so as to not be hurtful as defined by the person demanding the language change, or apology, or concession of wrongs isn't benign. It can create a whole lotta eggshells one has to avoid. But this is probably a spin off thread.

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7 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

 

The WH has a fairly advanced in-house medical unit. Makes me think they had reasons to move aggressively, as opposed to being "an abundance of caution." But it is all speculation, to be sure.

Bill

 

 

It takes a lot of coordination for the President and all his accompanying staff and vehicles to go anywhere.   Since there's a presidential suite with offices, etc. at Walter Reed there's no reason not to use it while waiting to see whether he becomes very sick or not. 

They didn't rush the President to Walter Reed.  The helicopter sat outside the White House for a long time before the President boarded and it took off.  Then when he arrived there were a lot of vehicles and people to transport him to the hospital entrance.  I told my son that the helicopter probably had to wait for all those vehicles to drive to the hospital before the President could leave on the short flight.   

 I'm guessing that it's logistics as well as being right there with the best doctors and nurses.

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23 minutes ago, Heartwood said:

I have a close friend who says meh a lot and I interpret it as a shrug. Not rude or offensive. Many people here are quick to jump on the attack and be easily offended. To think she doesn’t care is, at this point, laughable because of how ridiculous that assumption is. So many of you know her and know she is a caring person. 
 

I like to imagine pushing people off their high horses, chuckle, and move on. All too often I don’t have the time to engage in lengthy debates when my opinions differ from others and I have to let go and move on. This place can be quite vicious when you see things from a different (unpopular) viewpoint and you can be accused of being all kinds off terrible things *eyeroll* . It makes me grateful for my real world friends and that I live in Jurassic Park, ha ha.

As for the OP, I am praying for a quick recovery. I find it interesting how it can be picked up by those being precautionary or not.

 

If you think I feel animosity toward or offended by @Bagels McGruffikin you misunderstood me.

 

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7 hours ago, MercyA said:

Meh? With over 205,000 Americans dead?

Dipping my toe in here.  I don’t think she is dismissing the deaths at all, but just keeping a perspective. As Trump has said from day one, even one death is too many.  But maybe looking at the original estimates of 2.2 million deaths by August I think (?) of Covid, then 205,000 deaths, with many people experiencing mild symptoms and hospitalizations overall going down, is much better than predicted.  So she may be choosing to be optimistic about her recovery.

 

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5 minutes ago, Laurie said:

It takes a lot of coordination for the President and all his accompanying staff and vehicles to go anywhere.   Since there's a presidential suite with offices, etc. at Walter Reed there's no reason not to use it while waiting to see whether he becomes very sick or not. 

They didn't rush the President to Walter Reed.  The helicopter sat outside the White House for a long time before the President boarded and it took off.  Then when he arrived there were a lot of vehicles and people to transport him to the hospital entrance.  I told my son that the helicopter probably had to wait for all those vehicles to drive to the hospital before the President could leave on the short flight.   

 I'm guessing that it's logistics as well as being right there with the best doctors and nurses.

When you say there is "no reason" for the president not to use his suite at Walter Reed, it presupposes that "reason" drives the decision making of this White House.

Bill

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42 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Is there? I'm a moderator and I don't know who counts in this popular clique. 

-------

I've already asked you all to stop with the interpersonal stuff. I don't want to have to lock the thread.

Yeah, there is and I'm clearly not the only one who's noticed.

My apologies; I missed your comment earlier in the thread.

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4 minutes ago, Heartwood said:

I wasn’t trying to understand you, only give my opinion about the word meh, comment on an attitude that we’re apparently not suppose to be addressing in this thread, and talk about the original post. 

 

👍

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

It's not about being right or wrong. It's about hearing that you hurt someone, and then deciding how to go forward from there. Once you know something is hurtful, most people will try to change their wording so they don't hurt someone again, right?

To what extent? Again, remember, we are dealing with feelings, which are subjective and personal.

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1 hour ago, Frances said:

I think who we elect as our highest leader and cheer on and support with money and votes and how that person talks (and tweets) about and treats others speaks volumes about who we are as a society. How we respond when our leader dismisses scientific information and purposely sows misinformation, resulting in the illness and death of many of our fellow citizens also speaks volumes about who we are as a society. Not condemning evil is supporting it.

I wish it didn’t take someone getting the virus to take it seriously and follow the advice of public health and medical experts and encourage others to do the same, especially when they have such enormous power and influence. Unfortunately, it hasn’t worked to date. But if a mild case with no long term health effects (and certainly not death) can save some innocent lives, I’ll take it, given how many have already been lost and how many more will likely have long term negative health effects.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/evanega-et-al-coronavirus-misinformation-submitted-07-23-20-1/080839ac0c22bca8/full.pdf

I agree and disagree. Yes, who we elect to the highest office speaks volumes about who we are as a society.

I think what any of them say means very VERY little. I think what they do matters 100% more. And that's what I judge them on. Their actions. Not speeches and tweets.

 

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44 minutes ago, matrips said:

Dipping my toe in here.  I don’t think she is dismissing the deaths at all, but just keeping a perspective. As Trump has said from day one, even one death is too many.  But maybe looking at the original estimates of 2.2 million deaths by August I think (?) of Covid, then 205,000 deaths, with many people experiencing mild symptoms and hospitalizations overall going down, is much better than predicted.  So she may be choosing to be optimistic about her recovery.

"Meh" is quite often used in a way that is intentionally dismissive, snarky, and sarcastic--no matter *who* chooses to use it.  And I'd be shocked if Bagels did not know that. 

I am weary of people not taking this virus seriously. Almost everyone in my circles definitely has a "meh" attitude about the whole thing. And that attitude--especially on part of people in authority--is quite literally killing people. 

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Don’t know if anyone posted about the Regeneron antibody cocktail that President Trump got today. I looked up what is. 

Regeneron's cocktail includes lab engineered antibodies- one a monoclonal antibody that targets the spike protein and another antibody that targets a different part of the SARS2 coronavirus.  It was not clear to me what second part.  I assume that the second target could be the envelope or nucleocapsid or some other part.  

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Meh = shrug to me. I use it frequently.

I don’t usually change my words to suit emotion.  However I will consider explaining, adjusting, and discussing them.

For example, I had a discussion about Thomist philosophy during coffee yesterday than completely changed my view of the using the phrase “all laws are backed by violence”.  And getting into the details of what big government is with someone who claims to want to vote DT for smaller government gave them serious pause to reconsider their POV (or so they said more than a bit shocked to themselves  LOL)

All that aside for the actual topic. 
 

Who the heck can figure what is going on with DT? No one. There’s a dozen possible means and ends to the ways of his cray cray. Which is exactly why more people feel uncertain about the future now than they did 4 years ago.

 

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

Must be a full moon tonight 

 

Idk the intention, and I think the illness of leaders be they Boris Johnson or Donald Trump is quite serious, but I read that and cracked up laughing.  

I had a personal life sad thing today, so thank you! a real out loud laugh was excellent!!!!  Better than chocolate!

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