Vitamin D - mega dose for really low levels?

[matrips]

I’ve seen this discussed before.  Would you chime in with how to get really low levels (12) of Vitamin D up?  It’s for a friends teenage son that has always had issues and now has rickets too :(. Despite being under constant doctor supervision.

what is the mega dosage?  How is it given?  For how long? How long does it take to get levels up to 40 or more from 12?  What does maintenance look like?  Thanks.

eta to add extra questions.  Trying to give my friend specifics 

Edited September 29, 2020 by matrips

[mom2samlibby]

Low magnesium causes low vitamin D.  There is a lot of information on this site.  It focuses on magnesium, potassium, and sodium, along with Vitamin C.  I've been following the protocol here for the past 2 1/2 years.  It's eliminated a ton of the health issues I was having -- migraines, vertigo, heart palpitations, tinnitus, exhaustion.  This might give them something to consider.  https://therootcauseprotocol.com/all-resources/ 

[prairiewindmomma]

1. Have a celiac panel and other autoimmune stuff run. That is not normal.

2. Put him outside daily with skin showing.

3. Do the megadosing with regular follow up testing. There is an iv drip that bypasses the liver, but insurance doesn’t cover it typically. If $xxx isn’t an issue, I’d be asking while you sort out the stuff in point #1.

4. If dr isn’t seriously alarmed by this, fire dr.

[matrips]

3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

1. Have a celiac panel and other autoimmune stuff run. That is not normal.

2. Put him outside daily with skin showing.

3. Do the megadosing with regular follow up testing. There is an iv drip that bypasses the liver, but insurance doesn’t cover it typically. If $xxx isn’t an issue, I’d be asking while you sort out the stuff in point #1.

4. If dr isn’t seriously alarmed by this, fire dr.

He has autoimmune issues and gi issues.  What is the megadose?  His doctors are useless.  Firing them is not exactly an option unfortunately, but another agency may be taking over care.  Trying to give the mom some info because they are have not been prescribing d or magnesium.  Moms been giving it on her own, but I’m interested in the iv information.  Thanks!

[prairiewindmomma]

Megadosing is calculated on his body weight, absorption issues, etc. It also depends on how frequently it is done. 
 

I will link a study, but this should be done under dr oversight, imo. If mom isn’t a good advocate, maybe you could help in that arena https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7295536/

[prairiewindmomma]

If he has AI issues, I’d choose a rheumatologist over a GI dr to do it. Most endocrinologists don’t specialize enough to do d well, but some do. So, odds are a complicated kid is seeing a variety of issues....don’t just have to stick with a primary dr for this.

[Terabith]

Exact details may vary, but usually it looks something like 50,000-100,000 IU 2 or 3 times a week (D3), along with about 5,000 IU D3 WITH K2.  You also want to make sure to supplement magnesium, too, but the K is crucial for absorption.  

[matrips]

Great, thank you so much!  I copied the data you gave me and sent it to her.  If anyone else has info, I will copy it and send to her as well.

[Pen]

https://vitamindwiki.com/Loading+dose+of+vitamin+D+then+monthly+maintenance+is+the+most+popular+–+Nov+2018

 

 

[BeachGal]

25 minutes ago, matrips said:

He has autoimmune issues and gi issues.  What is the megadose?  His doctors are useless.  Firing them is not exactly an option unfortunately, but another agency may be taking over care.  Trying to give the mom some info because they are have not been prescribing d or magnesium.  Moms been giving it on her own, but I’m interested in the iv information.  Thanks!

Some states have businesses that offer IV drips. Just make an appointment and walk in to get it. They are overseen/administered by doctors and nurses. Here is one that determines how to proceed after testing vitamin D.

https://driphydration.com/lab-tests/vitamin-d-testing/

You also might be able to find a service that will come to you. That might be more expensive.

 

Grassroots Health would be a good place to learn more about vitamin d and find a medical practicioner who could help devise a treatment plan.

https://www.grassrootshealth.net/research/

https://www.grassrootshealth.net/project/daction-practitioners/

 

GI and autoimmune issues, genes and poor nutrition can all contribute to deficiency. Ideally, she really should find a different doctor who will help her figure out what to do.

[Pen]

https://vitamindwiki.com/100%2C000+IU+Vitamin+D+weekly+for+4+weeks+is+safe+and+effective+for+children+–+May+2019

[matrips]

Thank you!  I sent her the extra info and links

[Terabith]

But yeah, that's not normal.  Our whole family had single digit levels of D, so that's not really a concern, but the fact that he's actually developed rickets.....I'd be seriously suspicious that there's something going on beyond just not enough sun/ not absorbing or making D well.  (And we have a genetic mutation that seriously impacts our levels of D, but nobody got actual rickets.)

 

[BeachGal]

For vitamin K2, she should get something like Jarrow's MK-7 (menaquinone-7) which is more bioavailable than MK-4 (menaquinone-4), especially if he has GI issues. It's a 90 mcg softgel. One per day should be good. Then, she could also get some Thorne D3/K2 drops and add 2 drops of so per day to get D3 and MK-4. I take both of those myself. The K2 is important to take, though. Here's an good article about K2:

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-are-the-differences-between-vitamin-k2-mk-4-and-mk-7/

[ElizabethB]

I felt wonky when I took 50,000 a week to bring my levels up from 7.  My functional medicine doctor recommends 10,000 a day for someone dose loading, he says daily is better than weekly for a loading dose.  

You currently cannot make D from the sun in most of the US, and in CA, TX, FL, you need to be almost exactly at solar noon in just shorts with no sunscreen. You need a sun angle of 50 degrees or more to make D. https://www.suncalc.org/#/25.7748,-80.1977,3/2020.09.28/20:38/1/3

How to safely make D from the sun: 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-from-sun#skin-color

[matrips]

7 minutes ago, Terabith said:

But yeah, that's not normal.  Our whole family had single digit levels of D, so that's not really a concern, but the fact that he's actually developed rickets.....I'd be seriously suspicious that there's something going on beyond just not enough sun/ not absorbing or making D well.  (And we have a genetic mutation that seriously impacts our levels of D, but nobody got actual rickets.)

 

He definitely has multiple issues and is a complex care kid.  But his doctor has not been doing right by him.  His pancreas doesn’t work well, and he definitely has issues with D absorption, but it never should have gotten to this point.  He’s been in pain since the spring and they just kept putting casts on him and giving him ibuprofen for inflammation.  Now they find he has a major bone infection in his foot, ankle, and leg and will need surgery once he’s stable.  

[BeachGal]

Your friend might also want to ask about doing a magnesium drip as well because with her son's GI issues, it's probably going to be hard for his gut to deal with it as a supplement, at least initially. Too much magnesium will just give him "loose stools" or, more bluntly, puddin' poops. His poor gut doesn't need that.

[ElizabethB]

It took 2 to 3 months for me at 50,000 a week to get to above 40.  I had to play around with dosing, I need 30,000 a week to maintain, the rest of my family maintains at 2,000 a day.  You just need to retest every few months for a while and see, it is very individual.  Mine slipped to just below 30 when I tried a lower dose to maintain and I felt a bit more tired, but not as tired as I felt at 7!

I have to take weekly because of my food allergies, I feel slightly wonky the day after my 30,000 dose but not as bad as when I was building up, also the 50,000 dose felt less wonky once my levels had built up a bit.

[gardenmom5]

Drops with Vitamin K are most effective.  Pay attention to the oil used as a base, olive oil is better than corn oil.

that said:

My OD couldn't get her levels up, no matter what she did.  She's homozygous for mthf, and started treating that.  Her D3 levels finally came up.

[Soror]

I second the Celiac test. I had a friend that had consistent low doses, couldn't get it to raise. Brittle bones etc. Celiac test showed up positive, surprise.

[Pen]

17 hours ago, BeachGal said:

For vitamin K2, she should get something like Jarrow's MK-7 (menaquinone-7) which is more bioavailable than MK-4 (menaquinone-4), especially if he has GI issues. It's a 90 mcg softgel. One per day should be good. Then, she could also get some Thorne D3/K2 drops and add 2 drops of so per day to get D3 and MK-4. I take both of those myself. The K2 is important to take, though. Here's an good article about K2:

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-are-the-differences-between-vitamin-k2-mk-4-and-mk-7/

 

It is very expensive but Thorne has a good K2 alone drops also.

and Life Extension has a K1 and two types of K2 combined gel cap called SuperK 

 

with GI issues anything that’s tolerable (like D3 or K2 usually are) in feeling or taste that can be held in mouth for awhile may work for some intradermal/sublingual absorption and that may help.  

Magnesium can be as a soak or skin lotion

D can also be nebulized - but Idk if K2 can be. 

 

With rickets calcium may also be needed

 

it is unfortunate that they do not have a good doctor