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Neither a borrower nor lender be (please JAWM)


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8 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

I wonder if there are certain things that are safer/easier to loan out than others.

 

IE things with a short timespan. So I'd be willing to lend that karoake machine for a party (Or a dish). Or a lawn mower, etc

But not clothes, curriculum, etc that would be needed over a long period of times.

 

Personally I'd be willing to lend a book for someone to read and return -- but only books with no sentimental value such that its no big deal if they don't come back. I do have a friend who won't do it though because it affects her attitude toward the person if the book does not get returned.

This reminds of the movie Out of Africa where Robert Redford's character said to Meryl Streep's character, 'He was a friend, but he didn't return a book he borrowed to me.'  She said, 'you would lose a friend over a book?' And he said, 'no but he did.'

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15 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Any updates? Are you getting your cds? I'm a nosy Nelly and killing time at Walmart pickup.

I hope so, but I still don’t have a firm date this is going to happen because the young lady is planning to hand them off to dd. They do usually see each other about once a month, but it will surely be a few weeks before that might have happened. I will get them back in part because I am committed to not letting it drop and if she “keeps forgetting” I will keep nagging her. 

 

In a completely unrelated strange twist on the original subject, something interesting happened yesterday. I was doing a major clean-out of a storage area in our house and I have costumes I had made for my kids for Halloween many years ago. There was one costume I “borrowed” from my SIL when my dd was three. (I say “borrowed,” but really this was offered to me by her, since her kids had outgrown that costume by then. So, I guess I “borrowed” it but she never indicated or requested it back.)Over the years, we became ex-friends; for a while, we could barely be in the same room together. But apparently that costume remained in my storage, along with a few others that were very precious. 

Anyway. I saw this costume that had come from her so many years ago (20) and sent her a picture and a text. I said I was cleaning out stored clothes, am taking stuff to Goodwill, and did she want this costume back? Guys, never in a million years did I expect this but she said yes. She wants that 30-year-old costume back!  Wow. Glad I asked. 

As an aside, her shenanigans around “borrowing” and “lending” stuff was a big factor on why I decided on this policy all those years ago. She was also famous for giving things to people and then claiming they kept them against her wishes. (She did this with furniture she gave me for my son.)  I have to wonder if she has been muttering for twenty years about how I kept the preschooler’s costume all these years. She wants the costume now because she will have two grandkids soon. 

She asked me if I had another costume from her kids, which my dd never used. I was tempted to say, “no; remember you hated me by then, so I never borrowed that one...” 

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On 9/29/2020 at 9:24 AM, vonfirmath said:

I wonder if there are certain things that are safer/easier to loan out than others.

 

IE things with a short timespan. So I'd be willing to lend that karoake machine for a party (Or a dish). Or a lawn mower, etc

But not clothes, curriculum, etc that would be needed over a long period of times.

 

Personally I'd be willing to lend a book for someone to read and return -- but only books with no sentimental value such that its no big deal if they don't come back. I do have a friend who won't do it though because it affects her attitude toward the person if the book does not get returned.

Certainly some things are easier to loan than others if you’re not risking much, but IMO (and I think the numerous stories in this thread testify so) I don’t think it has that much to do with the monetary value of the lent item. When someone accidentally ruins your book or never, ever, ever returns the scarf they borrowed that windy day you went shopping together, it just does breed hard feelings. 

When the item is nominal it can make the lender feel worse about simply trying to get their thingy back, because you don’t want to seem like a putz for bothering the friend about your ten dollar rubber stamp they borrowed, but OTOH, it’s yours, you weren’t planning to be rid of the stamp and the right behavior from the borrower is to return it in perfect condition as soon as possible. 

I do think it is more problematic to lend something for long-term or without an obvious end game because, unless the borrower is super-conscientious, you will eventually have to ask for the item back, or a date when it can be returned. I realized this once when I loaned another hser my microscope and slides. It did work out in the end but I worried about the darn thing because it was expensive, could be easily ruined by a careless kid, and was out of my jurisdiction for a year. When I agree to lend it, my thinking was, “Well, sure; I don’t have a kid doing biology this year, so might as well share resources to help one another ou.” But in retrospect, I realized I would not lend that out in future because if it were ruined or forever kept, I would have been awfully steamed. 

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3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Certainly some things are easier to loan than others if you’re not risking much, but IMO (and I think the numerous stories in this thread testify so) I don’t think it has that much to do with the monetary value of the lent item. When someone accidentally ruins your book or never, ever, ever returns the scarf they borrowed that windy day you went shopping together, it just does breed hard feelings. 

 

That's why I was tlaking about sentimental value, not monetary.

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2 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

That's why I was tlaking about sentimental value, not monetary.

Well, yeah, I think sentimental items should never be loaned out and shouldn’t be given to other people unless you’re on your deathbed. But, I think even things that are neither sentimental nor monetarily valuable can still cause hard feelings. Here’s a story to illustrate:

I had a friend (call her Sue) whose other friend (call her Joanne) was planning a vacation to Disney. Sue had recently returned from a trip to Disney and had one of those guidebooks that tells you all the tips and hints for making it the best vacation. So Joanne asked if she could borrow Sue’s Disney book. Now: was this book expensive? No. Hard to come by? No. Deeply meaningful? Also no. But while Joanne was borrowing the book, her toddler ripped the cover off. When she returned it to Sue, she said something like, “Sorry about that; junior tore the cover off, but the book is still okay!” Well, Sue felt really miffed. Not because the book was itself so meaningful, but because it communicates a lack of caring. Gee the book is still readable, what’s the big deal? Well, the big deal is, I lent you a book that looks attractive and I got something back that looks rescued from the trash bin. If the friend who borrowed the book could manage a Disney vacation, she surely could have bought a brand-new perfect Disney guidebook to give to Sue. 

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1 minute ago, Quill said:

Well, yeah, I think sentimental items should never be loaned out and shouldn’t be given to other people unless you’re on your deathbed. But, I think even things that are neither sentimental nor monetarily valuable can still cause hard feelings. Here’s a story to illustrate:

I had a friend (call her Sue) whose other friend (call her Joanne) was planning a vacation to Disney. Sue had recently returned from a trip to Disney and had one of those guidebooks that tells you all the tips and hints for making it the best vacation. So Joanne asked if she could borrow Sue’s Disney book. Now: was this book expensive? No. Hard to come by? No. Deeply meaningful? Also no. But while Joanne was borrowing the book, her toddler ripped the cover off. When she returned it to Sue, she said something like, “Sorry about that; junior tore the cover off, but the book is still okay!” Well, Sue felt really miffed. Not because the book was itself so meaningful, but because it communicates a lack of caring. Gee the book is still readable, what’s the big deal? Well, the big deal is, I lent you a book that looks attractive and I got something back that looks rescued from the trash bin. If the friend who borrowed the book could manage a Disney vacation, she surely could have bought a brand-new perfect Disney guidebook to give to Sue. 

Yes, and such people act as though the fact that someone else caused the damage (a kid, a dog, a rainstorm, a dh) they can't possibly be responsible for it. I know someone who always blames someone else in her household, as though she is not responsible if her kid colored in it. It's the kid's fault! 

I am continually amazed at how self centered people are 😞 

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6 minutes ago, Quill said:

Well, yeah, I think sentimental items should never be loaned out and shouldn’t be given to other people unless you’re on your deathbed. But, I think even things that are neither sentimental nor monetarily valuable can still cause hard feelings. Here’s a story to illustrate:

I had a friend (call her Sue) whose other friend (call her Joanne) was planning a vacation to Disney. Sue had recently returned from a trip to Disney and had one of those guidebooks that tells you all the tips and hints for making it the best vacation. So Joanne asked if she could borrow Sue’s Disney book. Now: was this book expensive? No. Hard to come by? No. Deeply meaningful? Also no. But while Joanne was borrowing the book, her toddler ripped the cover off. When she returned it to Sue, she said something like, “Sorry about that; junior tore the cover off, but the book is still okay!” Well, Sue felt really miffed. Not because the book was itself so meaningful, but because it communicates a lack of caring. Gee the book is still readable, what’s the big deal? Well, the big deal is, I lent you a book that looks attractive and I got something back that looks rescued from the trash bin. If the friend who borrowed the book could manage a Disney vacation, she surely could have bought a brand-new perfect Disney guidebook to give to Sue. 

I can't help how other people react.

For me, if the thing I am loaning out is going to cause me grief and to think less of a person when an accident happens, then there is sentimental value attached to that item for me and I should not loan it out.

 

Our leader took my daughter's AHG handbook home to sign stuff and a cup got knocked over and it got wet.  She offered to replace it. But the book being tea-stained in places did not make it unusable and I valued her more as a leader and a friend than I valued the handbook.  It could have as easily been me knocking a cup over.

 

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15 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

I can't help how other people react.

For me, if the thing I am loaning out is going to cause me grief and to think less of a person when an accident happens, then there is sentimental value attached to that item for me and I should not loan it out.

 

Our leader took my daughter's AHG handbook home to sign stuff and a cup got knocked over and it got wet.  She offered to replace it. But the book being tea-stained in places did not make it unusable and I valued her more as a leader and a friend than I valued the handbook.  It could have as easily been me knocking a cup over.

 

Yes, but the difference between that and Quill’s story about the Disney guidebook is that your friend offered to replace the damaged book. Quill’s friend didn’t do that, and it was very inconsiderate to return a book in poor condition when it had been in good shape when she borrowed it. It’s the offer to replace the damaged item that matters most. 

Edited by Catwoman
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1 minute ago, OKBud said:

Right, she did the right thing without being mothered into it. That's exactly the kind of adult we all want to be friends with and live next door to, and interact with in any capacity. 

Exactly. It’s not about the book having been returned with a damaged cover — it’s about the woman not apologizing and offering to replace it. It’s about thoughtfulness and respect for other people’s property. Also, returning a borrowed book with the cover torn off is just plain terrible manners.

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I only "lend" things that I am willing to part with....which is frequently because I have a small house and try not to keep anything around I am not using.  But I have two semi-related stories.

1.  I needed to borrow a meat grinder once.  I am a vegetarian and only needed it for a single cat food experiment.  If the experiment went well, I planned to purchase my own but did not want to buy one until I knew.  A friend offered me theirs.  This person is always happy to lend things and I have borrowed from him frequently before that time.  I got it home and tried to put it together.  It was apparent immediately that it was broken.  The shaft was stripped.  I was not even able to completely assemble it.  This discovery was within hours of taking possession.  I called him and explained.  He told me that that sounded vaguely familiar and to just go ahead and toss it.  I did.  I borrowed someone else's, did the experiment, returned it, and went on with my life.  FIVE years later, original guy asks for his grinder back.  I tried to remind him what happened, that it was damaged when I got it, and he had told me to get rid of it.  This is close friend so after several jabs back and forth, I ended up just buying him a new grinder.  It was not worth it.  But I will never borrow from him again.  

2.  Not exactly a borrowing story but similar.  We have a curriculum consignment sale once a year.  When dd was younger, I did a swift trade in all of her old curriculum.  I usually sold over half of what I entered.  At the end of the sale, you go back and pick up your unsold items to take home.  For 2-3 years in a row, there was a woman there at pick-up time following people around and asking them to sell their unsold items to her for a reduced price or even to GIVE her the items.  This came with a sob story about tight finances and being taken advantage of and that I was really asking too much for the item anyway and and and.  I knew it was a farce and kind of rude to the organizers to cut out the commission but when she asked me, I relented since the alternative was to hang on to it for a whole year until the next sale.  I didn't think much of it until this summer, which is YEARS after she bought/took things from me, she posted a big "for sale" post on our local homeschool board.  I saw at least 5 of my items in her list and she was asking much more for them than I had originally listed them for consignment.  For instance, a Singapore Math soft cover textbook that I listed for $5 and ended up giving her, she was asking $15!  These don't cost much more than $15 brand new.  It appears she did not have much luck selling her items at these inflated prices but it took a lot of will power to resist messaging her and asking for the items for free to see if she'd see the irony.

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Skimomma, I eventually came close to completely giving up selling curriculum at co-op. People want hundred-dollar books for pennies. Also, I got sick of all the effort pricing, gathering and lugging everything there only to lug stuff back at the end of the day. It most often was not worth it. 

Now my younger sister is homeschooling so I offer her any/all of my things; otherwise, off to GW it goes. And in every case, I tell her she is welcome to say yes or no to any or all offers of curriculum. It’s no hard feelings if she doesn’t think it suits or doesn’t want to store it until her kids reach that age, etc. 

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8 minutes ago, Quill said:

Skimomma, I eventually came close to completely giving up selling curriculum at co-op. People want hundred-dollar books for pennies. Also, I got sick of all the effort pricing, gathering and lugging everything there only to lug stuff back at the end of the day. It most often was not worth it. 

 

 

I would be the same if my stuff didn't sell well.  I stopped doing it when I no longer yielded at least $200.  When it was all K-6 stuff, it was easy to sell.  

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