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My mother in law died of covid related stuff this afternoon. 

Thank you.   I wish I had a good update to give.  Michelle's family made the decision to discontinue life support today.  Her lungs were sustaining damage while on the ventilator, but were not he

Another uncle of mine has died of covid. That's three for our family. They did not live near each other. 😞

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23 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes correct.  Same store where the two infected pizza workers worked.  A girl from the local high school.  She attended school on Monday and Tuesday.  The only thing we don’t know is what the wait time was - she may have been in store for a while if they were slow I guess.

We also had a case in an English language school that was deemed a casual contact but I know less about that one as it just came in yesterday.

Quoting myself to say it’s worth keeping in mind that the two pizza workers would have been peak infectiousness and a tonne of customers have been through the store with only one positive so far.  So while it’s probably a risk it’s probably not a really high chance of it happening.

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

Quoting myself to say it’s worth keeping in mind that the two pizza workers would have been peak infectiousness and a tonne of customers have been through the store with only one positive so far.  So while it’s probably a risk it’s probably not a really high chance of it happening.

And she did go INSIDE the store? It's not just curbside pick up? 

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2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I kind of wonder how much good it all does. I've thought about sanitizing the bags, but I'm not sure if that's really a likely vector... wouldn't the fruits and veggies themselves be the problem, and you can't sanitize those? 

I usually throw out the bags and wash my hands after doing so, but I am sure that if the worker getting my fruit had COVID, there'd be some virus on the fruit. And I'm not sure what to do about that 😕 .

I just quickly spray down packaged stuff with peroxide - I stick a spray top on the bottle and mist everything. I mist bananas as well if they will be eaten that day. 

Produce like apples I wash with soap and water or veggie wash stuff I bought. I spritz, rub, rinse, dry. Berries go in a bowl of water with a bit of the veggie wash stuff, swish for 30 seconds, rinse in a colander and dry. 

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5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ugh. We haven't been going to stores for this reason. Especially with cases going up (so more virus hovering in indoor spaces), it doesn't seem safe. 

I hope delivery is safe. If I start hearing about people getting it from takeout or groceries, I'll really freak out. (We don't sanitize our groceries, since we haven't heard about anything like that.) 

 

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

Was she physically going into the grocery store or having them bring groceries to her car?  I don't go into the stores at all, but have started wearing my mask (since cases have been rising) from the time I get to the store and call for curbside pick-up until I get home and get out of my van.  Sometimes the workers aren't wearing the masks over their noses and are talking to me as they are putting groceries in my car (and breathing on my groceries).

We do still sanitize our groceries (since March) as at least a 1/3 of each order goes to our elderly parents.  Not taking any chances.

Yes - physically going into the store. We don't have much for delivery yet, although instacart is new and I used it for the first time this week! No curbside pick up for most places either unfortunately.

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5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I kind of wonder how much good it all does. I've thought about sanitizing the bags, but I'm not sure if that's really a likely vector... wouldn't the fruits and veggies themselves be the problem, and you can't sanitize those? 

I usually throw out the bags and wash my hands after doing so, but I am sure that if the worker getting my fruit had COVID, there'd be some virus on the fruit. And I'm not sure what to do about that 😕 .

As far as possible, I buy produce that are inside boxes or bags. For example, I would buy baby spinach in the plastic container, tomatoes inside boxes, individually wrapped cucumbers etc. If the produce can stay outside as in potatoes, apples, garlic etc, I do not consume them right away and leave them alone in a corner inside a plastic bin for 48 hours even though they are inside plastic bags. That should kill the covid germs, if any. For fresh produce that needs to go inside the fridge, I wash under running cold water, soak in water+vinegar+salt solution in a big mixing bowl for 10 minutes and then wrap in paper towels and put inside plastic bags in the fridge. I wipe down every container of milk, cheese etc with disinfectant, let it dry for 15 minutes and then put in the fridge. I see myself doing this for a long time to come. Which is what makes grocery shopping days stressful and tiring.

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5 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

As far as possible, I buy produce that are inside boxes or bags. For example, I would buy baby spinach in the plastic container, tomatoes inside boxes, individually wrapped cucumbers etc. If the produce can stay outside as in potatoes, apples, garlic etc, I do not consume them right away and leave them alone in a corner inside a plastic bin for 48 hours even though they are inside plastic bags. That should kill the covid germs, if any. For fresh produce that needs to go inside the fridge, I wash under running cold water, soak in water+vinegar+salt solution in a big mixing bowl for 10 minutes and then wrap in paper towels and put inside plastic bags in the fridge. I wipe down every container of milk, cheese etc with disinfectant, let it dry for 15 minutes and then put in the fridge. I see myself doing this for a long time to come. Which is what makes grocery shopping days stressful and tiring.

I do the same!  I only buy fresh produce and fruit (except bananas) that are in bags or containers (or buy frozen).  And...wipe down and/or clean everything.  So much work!!!  Hubby and I do it together so it isn't as bad, but still a lot of work every time we get groceries.  And...I shop for us, my dad, and my in-laws.  I'm not stopping anytime soon either.

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My 2nd DS's best friend (17) in boarding school in Israel has covid. He's reporting having a hard time breathing and being very uncomfortable. They sent him home to his family (also in Israel). They just moved to a bigger place, so finally has his own room to recuperate.

 

ETA:  He had a COVID test and it was negative.  I don't know if I would trust it, but who knows.  He's around his family so I hope they don't catch whatever it is he has...

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Two weeks ago we all of a sudden had people in our circles (including my ds and his housemates and my best friend and her dh) test positive. Those cases ranged from a symptomatic to mild cold. We had people we knew through dh’s work or parents of friends on Facebook having a harder time, including a couple hospitalized. All those cases have turned the corner, returned home, and are recovering. I am certain I must know more, because we have so many cases, I’m just not aware because they aren’t close and aren’t sharing publicly. But everyone we have been aware of is now ok it seems.

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16 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

I've been wondering about eye protection lately, as things have gotten more intense.  Wasn't really worried this summer.  I do wear glasses, but they have lots of gaps...

The whole thing is so weird to me. I have been working on the Covid end of our unit for months now and yet have not contracted it. We do wear PAPRs while we are in the rooms, but the rooms are not negative pressure. They have glass doors which we slide shut, but there is a gap that the IV tubing etc goes through and, of course, they are open for a while as we go in and out and pass things through. Most of them are intubated so on closed systems, although they are broken at times when the tubing comes disconnected, and many of them have tracheostomies, so not perfect closed systems.

I wear a surgical mask when not in the rooms, and I wear glasses, but not eye shields. The PAPRs provide eye protection in the rooms. I do sometimes eat or drink in the fairly immediate area, there would be little opportunity to eat or drink during a 12 hour shift otherwise.  Some of the people I work with do not wear surgical masks when they are not in the rooms - a combination of youthful feelings of immortality, politics, and just plain failure to keep up with current data, and still very few have caught it so far. 
In our scenario I wonder if our patients are so far along in the process that they are minimally infectious. Staff in other parts of the hospital have contracted it. But it seems crazy to me that I have not caught it, but someone visiting a super market once a week gets sick. Another factor may be the ventilation systems.

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's lucky. It's such a weird virus. 

I should add, hospitals are pretty full. I in no way mean to imply that everyone locally is doing fine, just my friends locally. 

I forgot to mention my sister. Her's did cause major headaches and some gastro issues but she is fine now.

 

 

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Just now, frogger said:

I should add, hospitals are pretty full. I in no way mean to imply that everyone locally is doing fine, just my friends locally. 

I forgot to mention my sister. Her's did cause major headaches and some gastro issues but she is fine now.

Yeah, I didn't think you were saying that! We know a mix of people ourselves. It's very varied. 

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2 hours ago, TCB said:

I have been working on the Covid end of our unit for months now and yet have not contracted it.

I am so very glad that you have been staying healthy.  From the bottom of my heart, thank you for the work that you are doing.  

 

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1 hour ago, JennyD said:

I am so very glad that you have been staying healthy.  From the bottom of my heart, thank you for the work that you are doing.  

 

Thank you for your kindness! 
I’m feeling pretty low at the moment. I looked after a lovely patient over Thanksgiving who I’m feeling worried about. He would desaturate profoundly doing the smallest thing. He knew how precarious his situation was. I’m hoping so much that when I go back he’s improved and gone to the floor but I’m worried I’ll find him on a ventilator or worse. 
One of my best friends in England messaged me that her beloved aunt died today of Covid in a nursing home. My parents elderly friend in the UK was admitted with Covid pneumonia and the worst thing is his wife died a few days ago, not sure what from but she was a dialysis patient.

On a positive note my nephew and his family were positive but have recovered after a fairly mild illness.

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17 hours ago, mlktwins said:

I do the same!  I only buy fresh produce and fruit (except bananas) that are in bags or containers (or buy frozen).  And...wipe down and/or clean everything.  So much work!!!  Hubby and I do it together so it isn't as bad, but still a lot of work every time we get groceries.  And...I shop for us, my dad, and my in-laws.  I'm not stopping anytime soon either.

It is so much work. I just wanted to say for those that wonder why some of us are cleaning groceries when public health officials say it’s not much risk, that it makes good sense from a public health perspective for them not to include grocery cleaning on the list of measures. The risk of transmitting that way is low enough that it would be a poor return on investment to encourage the public to do something that is so time and energy intensive when it would only prevent a small number of cases. From a personal health perspective, though, the calculus is different. For people who are only currently encountering the outside world through groceries and packages, that’s the place they can reduce their risk further. For people who are out working with the public, it probably doesn’t make sense, since the risk of catching it in public is so much higher than getting it from their own groceries. 

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51 minutes ago, kand said:

It is so much work. I just wanted to say for those that wonder why some of us are cleaning groceries when public health officials say it’s not much risk, that it makes good sense from a public health perspective for them not to include grocery cleaning on the list of measures. The risk of transmitting that way is low enough that it would be a poor return on investment to encourage the public to do something that is so time and energy intensive when it would only prevent a small number of cases. From a personal health perspective, though, the calculus is different. For people who are only currently encountering the outside world through groceries and packages, that’s the place they can reduce their risk further. For people who are out working with the public, it probably doesn’t make sense, since the risk of catching it in public is so much higher than getting it from their own groceries. 

That makes a lot of sense! 

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53 minutes ago, kand said:

It is so much work. I just wanted to say for those that wonder why some of us are cleaning groceries when public health officials say it’s not much risk, that it makes good sense from a public health perspective for them not to include grocery cleaning on the list of measures. The risk of transmitting that way is low enough that it would be a poor return on investment to encourage the public to do something that is so time and energy intensive when it would only prevent a small number of cases. From a personal health perspective, though, the calculus is different. For people who are only currently encountering the outside world through groceries and packages, that’s the place they can reduce their risk further. For people who are out working with the public, it probably doesn’t make sense, since the risk of catching it in public is so much higher than getting it from their own groceries. 

I've been thinking about this. On the one hand, it doesn't seem that risky not to worry about packages. On the other hand, it really is one of our major modes of exposure. On the third tentacle, I'm already SO TIRED with all the care we're taking. 

I don't really know what all this contemplating will lead to, sigh. 

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That makes so much sense..... here we are doing well to not indoor dine — we were indoor dining in the summer and it is a little bit — my husband asks me about once a week if we can eat inside a restaraunt.  
 

It’s good for us and a big risk reduction for us — but it’s pretty far from washing groceries.  
 

 

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38 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I've been thinking about this. On the one hand, it doesn't seem that risky not to worry about packages. On the other hand, it really is one of our major modes of exposure. On the third tentacle, I'm already SO TIRED with all the care we're taking. 

I don't really know what all this contemplating will lead to, sigh. 

I take a more middleground with packages than I did early on with this. Instead of quarantining them in the sunlight on a covered porch for a couple days, I now mostly just open them and dump the contents out and then get rid of the packaging and wash my hands thoroughly. my main concern would be if my mail carrier or UPS driver were infected and had transferred virus onto them when carrying them to my porch. I like to leave them outside for most of the day they are delivered before bringing them in, but my DH has a tendency to bring them in as soon as he sees them. I do admit I’ve been more careful than that with a couple packages that have come from hot zones, though. I had an Etsy package from one of the Dakotas, and I disinfected all the contents in that package before giving them to my daughter.

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I’m actually in the middle of a moderate fuss over not seeing my aged parents indoors.  
 

It is where my energy is going.  
 

Sigh!

 

Our county is up to 70 cases per hundred thousand (per day) and it’s definitely a place where (for various reasons) not everybody gets tested.  

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Just now, Lecka said:

I’m actually in the middle of a moderate fuss over not seeing my aged parents indoors.  

We’ve been fortunate that my aged parents are on the same page we are. They really, really don’t want to catch this, so it has been only outdoor, masked visits from the start of this last Spring. They haven’t been in a store since this started. We make sure their groceries are delivered. It would be really difficult if they were wanting us to come visit them inside their home.

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4 minutes ago, kand said:

We’ve been fortunate that my aged parents are on the same page we are. They really, really don’t want to catch this, so it has been only outdoor, masked visits from the start of this last Spring. They haven’t been in a store since this started. We make sure their groceries are delivered. It would be really difficult if they were wanting us to come visit them inside their home.

We've podded with our in-laws. But we don't go inside at all, and we don't have play dates. The only thing we ever do is go to the park, where we stay as far as possible from people. 

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9 minutes ago, kand said:

I take a more middleground with packages than I did early on with this. Instead of quarantining them in the sunlight on a covered porch for a couple days, I now mostly just open them and dump the contents out and then get rid of the packaging and wash my hands thoroughly. my main concern would be if my mail carrier or UPS driver were infected and had transferred virus onto them when carrying them to my porch. I like to leave them outside for most of the day they are delivered before bringing them in, but my DH has a tendency to bring them in as soon as he sees them. I do admit I’ve been more careful than that with a couple packages that have come from hot zones, though. I had an Etsy package from one of the Dakotas, and I disinfected all the contents in that package before giving them to my daughter.

We've been quarantining packages for a few days in a safe spot to let any possible virus decompose. Doesn't work for groceries, though! 

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My nieces.... my sister has told them to stay away from their grandparents — they should, they are both on the riskier side — including one who is working as a restaraunt server.

On our Thanksgiving zoom call — my mom and step-dad were saying “it’s been so long since we’ve seen [nieces].”  And really heavily “we want them to come see us.”  
 

And then it’s like — they say they are careful and want to be careful, but their idea of what is risky is really different than what I think is reasonable. 
 

They are people who will always wear a mask at the store, and my mom has quit going to the big Wal-Mart here that has gotten to have a lot lower mask compliance lately, and has me pick things up for her, but — they think it’s fine to see family members and close friends.  
 

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22 minutes ago, kand said:

I take a more middleground with packages than I did early on with this. Instead of quarantining them in the sunlight on a covered porch for a couple days, I now mostly just open them and dump the contents out and then get rid of the packaging and wash my hands thoroughly. my main concern would be if my mail carrier or UPS driver were infected and had transferred virus onto them when carrying them to my porch. I like to leave them outside for most of the day they are delivered before bringing them in, but my DH has a tendency to bring them in as soon as he sees them. I do admit I’ve been more careful than that with a couple packages that have come from hot zones, though. I had an Etsy package from one of the Dakotas, and I disinfected all the contents in that package before giving them to my daughter.

LOL, that's pretty much where I am with mail and packages.  I often try to open with scissors without using my hands too much, but if I do touch a bit I don't worry and just wash my hands thoroughly.  The stuff inside I figure hasn't been touched in long enough that it's fine. 

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2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

LOL, that's pretty much where I am with mail and packages.  I often try to open with scissors without using my hands too much, but if I do touch a bit I don't worry and just wash my hands thoroughly.  The stuff inside I figure hasn't been touched in long enough that it's fine. 

This is how I handle it too.

In the beginning I washed grocery packages but gave it up when the data just didn't seem to support it as particularly beneficial. Most of my food hangs out in the pantry, fridge or canning shelves for days before I use them anyway. 
 

I automatically wash my hands right after touching anything from outside the house.

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It’s bad enough my local hospital has now requested a refrigerated morgue truck be delivered within 24 hours. To be fair, there is only 4 morgue spaces, but now the funeral homes are backed up.

The deaths are all from one nursing home. We’ve actually had only comparatively few deaths from the community at large, but people at that nursing home are dying in numbers of 5-7 a day. They’re also swabbing all deceased persons and discovering some in the community, unexplained deaths that are Covid positive.

I’m a paramedic and we are so busy at work.  I am exhausted. 
 

A friend who is an EMT at another ambulance service had Covid last month and is still dealing with bilateral pneumonia, fatigue, and shortness of breath. She is in her late 20s with no underlying conditions.  She caught it at work, despite full PPE.

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7 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

It’s bad enough my local hospital has now requested a refrigerated morgue truck be delivered within 24 hours. To be fair, there is only 4 morgue spaces, but now the funeral homes are backed up.

The deaths are all from one nursing home. We’ve actually had only comparatively few deaths from the community at large, but people at that nursing home are dying in numbers of 5-7 a day. They’re also swabbing all deceased persons and discovering some in the community, unexplained deaths that are Covid positive.

I’m a paramedic and we are so busy at work.  I am exhausted. 
 

A friend who is an EMT at another ambulance service had Covid last month and is still dealing with bilateral pneumonia, fatigue, and shortness of breath. She is in her late 20s with no underlying conditions.  She caught it at work, despite full PPE.

Bless you and others who are on the front lines. May this wave subside quickly.  🙏❤️

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On 11/28/2020 at 1:37 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmmm. I'll have to think about whether we should make sure to only buy fruit and veggies in boxes. But I do make salad... maybe I should stop for the time being 😕 . Stir fries for veggies? Stir fries ARE good... 

We don't go shopping at all, though. We just get pick up and delivery, because I am NOT setting foot indoors if I don't have to. 

I haven't been inside a grocery store since February.  Here's a recent study from Spain about food hygiene and other behaviors and covid.   https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935120311208?via%3Dihub

We wash as much as we can with soap and water, and otherwise wipe down with peroxide.  It's a headache for sure.  

Don't forget to get your MMR vxn!  https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/6/e02628-20

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2 minutes ago, daijobu said:

I haven't been inside a grocery store since February.  Here's a recent study from Spain about food hygiene and other behaviors and covid.   https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935120311208?via%3Dihub

We wash as much as we can with soap and water, and otherwise wipe down with peroxide.  It's a headache for sure.  

Don't forget to get your MMR vxn!  https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/6/e02628-20

Those are bizarre numbers and it's not clear what to do with them. Like, I do not believe walking the dog can reasonably increase your chance of COVID, unless you're getting close to other people! And I don't believe wearing a mask does absolutely nothing, like the survey suggests.

Any idea what these numbers are supposed to mean? These are self-report, and it's quirky data. 

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Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Those are bizarre numbers and it's not clear what to do with them. Like, I do not believe walking the dog can reasonably increase your chance of COVID, unless you're getting close to other people! And I don't believe wearing a mask does absolutely nothing, like the survey suggests.

Any idea what these numbers are supposed to mean? These are self-report, and it's quirky data. 

Yeah, I agree, we were scratching our heads over this as well.  

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1 minute ago, daijobu said:

Yeah, I agree, we were scratching our heads over this as well.  

So, it looks like the people who got most infected... lived alone and never went outside. I have NO CLUE what that's supposed to mean. Maybe it's reverse causation? People with a positive test reporting having done less stuff to justify to themselves that they were REALLY CAREFUL and it's not their fault they got infected?? 

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38 minutes ago, daijobu said:

Yeah, I agree, we were scratching our heads over this as well.  

Looking at the study, there were 99 people who had COVID; of those 29 had walked a dog.  I didn't count how many variables they were considering, but with such a small sample size, it is hard to determine anything.  The questions asked if the person participated in any of these activities during the strictest lockdown period.  But, I can't find that they asked about WHEN the person had COVID.  I read quickly so maybe it is in there, but it looked to me like the person could have had COVID before walking the dog.  

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3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

We've been quarantining packages for a few days in a safe spot to let any possible virus decompose. Doesn't work for groceries, though! 

We quarantine non-perishables rather than wiping them down. In the early days, everything got wiped, but now, things that can sit in their bags a couple days do, and then they can be used. If my household was just adults, this would be different as well. I know that I can trust myself to open the package and then wash my hands, but not my kids.

58 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Those are bizarre numbers and it's not clear what to do with them. Like, I do not believe walking the dog can reasonably increase your chance of COVID, unless you're getting close to other people! And I don't believe wearing a mask does absolutely nothing, like the survey suggests.

Any idea what these numbers are supposed to mean? These are self-report, and it's quirky data. 

Super weird data. I haven’t finished reading it yet, but one of my thoughts on the dog walking was that during the time period the study covered, Spain was in really strict lockdown, and walking the dog was one of the few things you were allowed out to do. I remember hearing on the news of a lot of people using “walking the dog” as an excuse to get out. I wonder if people used that as a time to meet up with others (though being outside, doesn’t seem it would have that strong an effect.) Weird. 

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Here's a possible personal Covid experience that has a slightly funny aspect to it. We very recently rented out one of our properties to a young man. He sent dh a message asking if something could be done about the air quality in the apartment and said he felt like it was stale and "hard to breathe". We replied that it seems surprising because no other tenant has mentioned that, and suggested that perhaps the air is a bit stale because it has been vacant for a few months, and we did repairs and such. We suggested cracking some windows to get some air exchange and also suggested that he could get a personal air system of his own. Then, dh said, he didn't reply for days. We wondered if he had been offended by these suggestions.

Today, he got back in touch with dh and said he owed an apology; it turns out he may be positive for covid (no test back yet) and he thinks *that* is why it seemed like it was hard to breathe while lying in bed. 

It makes me think of all those people, complaining that their candles have no scent. 😄 

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19 hours ago, kand said:

Super weird data. I haven’t finished reading it yet, but one of my thoughts on the dog walking was that during the time period the study covered, Spain was in really strict lockdown, and walking the dog was one of the few things you were allowed out to do. I remember hearing on the news of a lot of people using “walking the dog” as an excuse to get out. I wonder if people used that as a time to meet up with others (though being outside, doesn’t seem it would have that strong an effect.) Weird. 

DH said that he expected all self-reported results to be pretty useless and to have random spurious correlations, and I do rather agree with him. Most of these people didn't have tests, either, so... it's really hard to know. 

I feel like we would KNOW if there was serious surface transmission with food delivery. Like, they still haven't found anything like that in the Australia cluster, right? Only people who've lied about working in the pizza shop and people who had been inside it to pick up the pizza. 

Oh, DH also said that "food delivery" might look pretty different in Spain. Like, the grocer's boy may have actually COME INTO your house and dropped off the food while chatting in the kitchen... 

Anyway, I think I'm going to ignore this data, although I'll admit that it's making me more stressed, lol. We get lots of deliveries! 

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I wonder if dogs could pick up CV19 on feet (or fur elsewhere) and track it home where it could fall off in dust etc and circulate in air. 
 

During a TB outbreak we removed shoes outside and tried to wash dog feet before they came in. 

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Those are bizarre numbers and it's not clear what to do with them. Like, I do not believe walking the dog can reasonably increase your chance of COVID, unless you're getting close to other people! And I don't believe wearing a mask does absolutely nothing, like the survey suggests.

Any idea what these numbers are supposed to mean? These are self-report, and it's quirky data. 

All correlation, no causation.  I'd guess that dog-walking is a marker for people who found reasons to go out a lot (and socialize while out).  Disinfecting purchases is probably a marker for people who were extremely cautious in general.  I doubt that any of these behaviours (other than living with others) are causal in of themselves.

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1 minute ago, wathe said:

All correlation, no causation.  I'd guess that dog-walking is a marker for people who found reasons to go out a lot (and socialize while out).  Disinfecting purchases is probably a marker for people who were extremely cautious in general.  I doubt that any of these behaviours (other than living with others) are causal in of themselves.

Agreed, but I still don't like seeing it, lol. 

It's like, I know all these statistical tricks very well, and I still do NOT want to see "data" that says that disinfecting groceries is extremely important and getting groceries delivered is bad! Even though rationally I know we have ample evidence that it's not really the case, and I've followed that evidence myself. 

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