10th Grade Book Selection Help?

[Miss Tick]

I need help picking the next literature book for my 10th graders. We are in the last stretch of History of the Medieval World and will switch over to Renaissance with the new year. I generally align the literature readings with the history period we are studying, but it is a loose guide. So far this semester we have read Heaney's Beowulf and listened to the Mabinogian. Right now through October they are in the midst of a deep dive into Romeo & Juliet, a little early, but this is the time that worked.

WTM suggests -
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (we've read this in the last few years, not excited to do it again)
Selections from The Canterbury Tales (which selections, though?) We read the McCaughren version at one point not too long ago.
The Prince

Or we could start the Renaissance period early, I'm hoping to cover -
Don Quixote (abridged) abridged feels like cheating, but no way we would make it through the full-on book, I've been working on that myself in spurts for 3 years.
?Gulliver's Travels
Pride and Prejudice
Frankenstein/The Last of the Mohicans (reader's choice)
Jane Eyre
Moby Dick We already read an abridged version a few years ago, so I'd like this to be the full thing.
 

Anyone feel like weighing in with their opinions? I don't feel qualified to compare all these different fruits. I'm really just trying to pick something from the bolded, but feel free to give me any opinions you've got!

 

[Lori D.]

It sounds like you've either read abridged versions of many of the items, or have items on the list just because they are on the WTM list.
Do you *want* to cover these works? (Which is different than feeling you *need* to cover these works.)
And especially, what would your 10th graders *enjoy* reading/discussing/digging into?


If nothing on your list feels really exciting, what about a step sideways into a unit of poetry, or short stories, or a contemporary work of high interest to your family, not related to the history time period?


Other classics ideas that fit into the Medieval/Renaissance time periods:
- Inferno (or the full Divine Comedy) (Dante)
- Utopia (More) -- excerpts would be plenty (and do a contemporary dystopia alongside)
- additional Shakespeare plays, if really enjoying Romeo & Juliet
- Paradise Lost (Milton)
- Pilgrim's Progress (Bunyan)


How about doing some modern works in conjunction with/comparison to Medieval/Renaissance works: 

- The Once and Future King (White)
A more readable King Arthur, that White wrote pretty closely from Mallory's 15th century Mort d'Arthur, and discuss in context with Mabiogian

- The Lord of the Rings (Tolkien)
A fantasy epic, influenced by themes, cultures, ideas in Beowulf, Sir Gawain, and Arthurian mythology

- A Canticle for Leibowitz (Miller)
Post-apocalyptic sci-fi work, set in 3 stages: 1st =very early disorganized Medieval; 2nd = brink of Renaissance; 3rd = technologically more advanced than current times -- all 3 stages trace the threads of the destructive cycle of man, rise of political power structures, and the role of the Church in keeping alive the light of literacy, knowledge, and faith through the monastic order

- Anathem (Stephenson)
A great one to do after A Canticle for Leibowitz. Canticle for Leibowitz was written in 1960 by a Catholic author while Anathem was written in 2008 by an atheist -- so, an interested contrast in basic worldview. Anathem follows a very similar structure (3 stages) and idea as Canticle for Leibowitz -- except with scientists keeping alive the light of knowledge and reason as a sort of monastic order.

- 1984
A contemporary dystopia, and compare with More's 16th century Utopia (which was slyly and quietly highlighting problems with gov't & political system), or maybe in conjunction with The Prince (Machiavelli) 

- Animal Farm
In conjunction with The Prince (Machiavelli) 



ETA... ANNNDDD, if I would just carefully read the original post:
 

7 hours ago, SusanC said:

I need help picking the next literature book for my 10th graders....

WTM suggests -
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (we've read this in the last few years, not excited to do it again)
Selections from The Canterbury Tales (which selections, though?) We read the McCaughren version at one point not too long ago.
The Prince

Or we could start the Renaissance period early, I'm hoping to cover -
Don Quixote (abridged) abridged feels like cheating, but no way we would make it through the full-on book, I've been working on that myself in spurts for 3 years.
?Gulliver's Travels
Pride and Prejudice
Frankenstein/The Last of the Mohicans (reader's choice)
Jane Eyre
Moby Dick We already read an abridged version a few years ago, so I'd like this to be the full thing.

For directly answering your question of picking the next book from your list😉 ,then I'd say go ahead and move on to Renaissance since the 2 Medieval works on the list have already been read in different versions earlier.

The only 2 books on your list that fall in the Renaissance time period are Don Quixote (late Medieval), and The Prince (early 1500s -- so early Renaissance), and Don Quixote (early 1600s). I have to say, that reading full versions of either of those choices would not excite *me* personally (lol). But a good abridged/adapted version of Don Quixote could be fun. And many people save The Prince and do it as part of a philosophy study, or even possibly part of a government study, so you could still include that one in a different capacity later on...

Gulliver's Travels (1726) and Last of the Mohicans (1757) are Enlightenment era (roughly 1650-late 1700s), and the other titles fall in Early Modern, so they would not be specifically part of the Renaissance (roughly late 1400s through mid-to-late 1600s).

Don't know if that helps at all, lol. All the BEST in your Literature studies, whatever you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Lori D.

[cintinative]

I remember recently when I was paging through that section of the WTM that the main "Great Books" lists just listed the title, but if you go into the bibliography/where to find it section, it sometimes specifies more about what part of the reading is meant. However, I just looked at The Canterbury Tales and it only says selections.  For Don Quixote, the book listed is an abridged version by Walter Starkie.

My oldest is in a medieval lit class this year, and this is what they are reading from Canterbury Tales

The Wife of Bath’s Tale (171)
The Clerk’s Prologue and The Clerk’s Tale(209)
The Franklin’s Prologue (293) and The Franklin’s Tale (293-317)

They are reading all of Sir Gawain, as well as Sir Orfeo

What about swapping out The Fairie Queene for Sir Gawain? Or maybe MacBeth?

 

[Miss Tick]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

I remember recently when I was paging through that section of the WTM that the main "Great Books" lists just listed the title, but if you go into the bibliography/where to find it section, it sometimes specifies more about what part of the reading is meant. However, I just looked at The Canterbury Tales and it only says selections.  For Don Quixote, the book listed is an abridged version by Walter Starkie.

My oldest is in a medieval lit class this year, and this is what they are reading from Canterbury Tales

The Wife of Bath’s Tale (171)
The Clerk’s Prologue and The Clerk’s Tale(209)
The Franklin’s Prologue (293) and The Franklin’s Tale (293-317)

They are reading all of Sir Gawain, as well as Sir Orfeo

What about swapping out The Fairie Queene for Sir Gawain? Or maybe MacBeth?

 

Thanks! The list of selected Tales is helpful. If we go that direction I will start with those and see what we think.

I looked at The Fairie Queene and I don't think I could do it justice. Macbeth and Hamlet are both on my short list, I think one of those would be great.

[cintinative]

21 minutes ago, SusanC said:

Thanks! The list of selected Tales is helpful. If we go that direction I will start with those and see what we think.

I looked at The Fairie Queene and I don't think I could do it justice. Macbeth and Hamlet are both on my short list, I think one of those would be great.

 

If you do Hamlet, there is a BBC radio production (free online) we listened to this summer that was good.  We listened as we read. Also, we watched the version of Hamlet with David Tennant. It's @Lori D.'s favorite version.  😃  

There is a Classics Club video and syllabus by Center for Lit for Hamlet which we used.  

I am (obviously) outsourcing the medieval lit titles, so I can relate to worrying you can do something justice!  😃  

I hope it goes well for you!

Edited September 22, 2020 by cintinative

[Miss Tick]

3 hours ago, Lori D. said:

It sounds like you've either read abridged versions of many of the items, or have items on the list just because they are on the WTM list.
Do you *want* to cover these works? (Which is different than feeling you *need* to cover these works.)
And especially, what would your 10th graders *enjoy* reading/discussing/digging into?


If nothing on your list feels really exciting, what about a step sideways into a unit of poetry, or short stories, or a contemporary work of high interest to your family, not related to the history time period?


Other classics ideas that fit into the Medieval/Renaissance time periods:
- Inferno (or the full Divine Comedy) (Dante)
- Utopia (More) -- excerpts would be plenty (and do a contemporary dystopia alongside)
- additional Shakespeare plays, if really enjoying Romeo & Juliet
- Paradise Lost (Milton)
- Pilgrim's Progress (Bunyan)


How about doing some modern works in conjunction with/comparison to Medieval/Renaissance works: 

- The Once and Future King (White)
A more readable King Arthur, that White wrote pretty closely from Mallory's 15th century Mort d'Arthur, and discuss in context with Mabiogian

- The Lord of the Rings (Tolkien)
A fantasy epic, influenced by themes, cultures, ideas in Beowulf, Sir Gawain, and Arthurian mythology

- A Canticle for Leibowitz (Miller)
Post-apocalyptic sci-fi work, set in 3 stages: 1st =very early disorganized Medieval; 2nd = brink of Renaissance; 3rd = technologically more advanced than current times -- all 3 stages trace the threads of the destructive cycle of man, rise of political power structures, and the role of the Church in keeping alive the light of literacy, knowledge, and faith through the monastic order

- Anathem (Stephenson)
A great one to do after A Canticle for Leibowitz (which was written in 1960 by a Catholic author), as it follows a very similar structure (3 stages) and idea -- except with scientists keeping alive the light of knowledge and reason as a sort of monastic order

- 1984
A contemporary dystopia, and compare with More's 16th century Utopia (which was slyly and quietly highlighting problems with gov't & political system), or maybe in conjunction with The Prince (Machiavelli) 

- Animal Farm
In conjunction with The Prince (Machiavelli) 



ETA... ANNNDDD, if I would just carefully read the original post:
 

For directly answering your question of picking the next book from your list😉 ,then I'd say go ahead and move on to Renaissance since the 2 Medieval works on the list have already been read in different versions earlier.

The only 2 books on your list that fall in the Renaissance time period are Don Quixote (late Medieval), and The Prince (early 1500s -- so early Renaissance), and Don Quixote (early 1600s). I have to say, that reading full versions of either of those choices would not excite *me* personally (lol). But a good abridged/adapted version of Don Quixote could be fun. And many people save The Prince and do it as part of a philosophy study, or even possibly part of a government study, so you could still include that one in a different capacity later on...

Gulliver's Travels (1726) and Last of the Mohicans (1757) are Enlightenment era (roughly 1650-late 1700s), and the other titles fall in Early Modern, so they would not be specifically part of the Renaissance (roughly late 1400s through mid-to-late 1600s).

Don't know if that helps at all, lol. All the BEST in your Literature studies, whatever you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Your post is great Lori, both a direct answer to my question and some answers to questions I didn't know how to ask!

I'm trying to cover a solid selection of "important" books, recognizing that there is no agreed upon master list. I feel like I got through the entirety of my school career without even enough awareness of what I was missing. Since I haven't read many of these, it is difficult to compare them, I appreciate the opinions of others here. I had a list I was excited about starting with ancients, but it ended with Mabinogion and I've been waiting for a lightning strike.

We are all big readers, but not great "discussers". I'm trying to rectify that slowly as we progress through whatever we do for literature.

I got a bunch of good ideas from your post, thank you. I'll put them up for some kind of a vote and see where we head next.

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, SusanC said:

...I'm trying to cover a solid selection of "important" books, recognizing that there is no agreed upon master list. I feel like I got through the entirety of my school career without even enough awareness of what I was missing...

That's always a tricky balance -- yes, exposure to classics (esp. those that influenced later authors/artists), but some of the works are so tough as to really be better done in college. So just a quick summary for familiarity would be fine for that second group. Because there are SOOO many more "classics" starting in the 1800s-present day, it's tough to get to ALL of those works that you might want to cover... so you might throw in some of those later books in with the sparser selection of classic Medieval/Renaissance works.
 

1 hour ago, SusanC said:

...  I had a list I was excited about starting with ancients, but it ended with Mabinogion and I've been waiting for a lightning strike...

Cinnative's suggestions are great. 😄 
And agreeing with her about Macbeth and Hamlet (esp. Macbeth) have a Medieval feel, if wanting to do more Shakespeare.

For Canterbury Tales, we covered:
- short excerpts from the Prologue; and the very short ending Retraction
- The Nun's Priest (medium; Chauntecleer the rooster folktale)
- The Pardoner's Tale (short; moral folktale; 3 men go looking for Death -- and find Death)
- The Knight's Tale (long; courtly tale of knightly honor, set in classical ancient times)
- The Wife of Bath's Tale (medium; King Arthur related; knight of King Arthur gives his word, and follows through; also a tale that reveals male and female perspectives of Chaucer's times)

The Franklin's Tale that Cinnative mentioned is like a traditional fairy tale, and another fine choice.

JMO: The Clerk's Tale is a straight "no" for me -- I "get" that it's meant to show the queen-wife's noble character, but it honestly just comes off like a cruel and abusive husband-king saying, "oh, all that cruelty I caused you to suffer -- it was all just a test, and you passed", and she's like: "yes dear, no hard feelings" and they live happily ever after. Ummm... no. Hard pass for me. 😉 

The free Glencoe Literature Library guide would give you plenty of background info. questions, comparisons, and graphic organizers to launch a bit of discussion on the your choice of:
- characterization & background in the Prologue
- discussion of chivalry in: Knight's Tale
- comparison of marriage tales: Wife of Bath's Tale and Clerk's Tale
- comparison of your choice of cautionary tales: Nun's Priest's Tale; Pardoner's Tale; Summoner's Tale (crude farting story); Clerk's Yeoman's Tale (long 2-part story)


Just some rambling thoughts on the other Medieval/Renaissance works I suggested in my post up-thread, since you're looking for thoughts as one piece of the puzzle for deciding what work(s) to go with from here 😉 :

- Inferno (or the full Divine Comedy) (Dante)
Worthwhile (but not a "must") Referenced in art, literature, and popular culture, but it could wait for college. It is long, and in verse, and in Italian (so you'd be reading a translation of the poetry). At a high school level, I'd probably opt for light exposure -- a good summary (maybe Sparknotes' Inferno summary), read a few key excerpts, and call it good

- Utopia (More)
Not a "must." The work is not usually directly referenced, but the idea of a "utopia" (term coined by author Thomas More in this work), is worth understanding as the concept of a utopia (and the flip side of a dystopia) are frequently referenced in literature, film, and popular culture.

- Paradise Lost (Milton)
Not a "must." Less frequently referenced. JMO: this one can wait for college. It is long and in verse. Sparknotes summary.

- Pilgrim's Progress (Bunyan)
Christian allegory. Worthwhile (but not a "must"), as it is referenced in other literature (see halfway down in this Wikipedia article, under "Cultural Influences"). It is esp. useful as a direct visualization of the Christian's journey of faith, and also as exposure to the literature form of "allegory". You could go for an abridged version and be fine -- since it is an allegory, all of the themes are on the surface and all of the connections are direct 1-to-1 connections, so not tons of depth for digging. BTW: since Jane Eyre is on your future list, I'll just add that some people have noted that Jane Eyre's "pilgrimage" is a bit like the journey in Pilgrim's Progress, with variations on the temptations. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Lori D.

[cintinative]

10 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

 

JMO: The Clerk's Tale is a straight "no" for me -- I "get" that it's meant to show the queen-wife's noble character, but it honestly just comes off like a cruel and abusive husband-king saying, "oh, all that cruelty I caused you to suffer -- it was all just a test, and you passed", and she's like: "yes dear, no hard feelings" and they live happily ever after. Ummm... no. Hard pass for me. 😉 



- Utopia (More)
The work is not usually directly referenced, but the idea of a "utopia" (term coined by author Thomas More in this work), is worth understanding as the concept of a utopia (and the flip side of a dystopia) are frequently referenced in literature, film, and popular culture.

 

I'll be interested to see how Angelina Stanford handles The Clerk's Tale given your comments. 😃

OP, my oldest is studying medieval history this year and the second half or so of the year will be primary sources for history. We are covering Utopia and The Prince as part of this. I have read everything ahead. Compared to some of the other reading (such as Summa Theologica), these were much easier reads for me.  

OP, do you by chance own Invitation to the Classics? There are some introductions to different historical and literary works. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801011566/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1   If you want, I can check if certain books are in there. Unfortunately the Amazon listing does not have the TOC as a preview.

[Lori D.]

54 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I'll be interested to see how Angelina Stanford handles The Clerk's Tale given your comments. 😃

OP, my oldest is studying medieval history this year and the second half or so of the year will be primary sources for history. We are covering Utopia and The Prince as part of this. I have read everything ahead. Compared to some of the other reading (such as Summa Theologica), these were much easier reads for me.  

OP, do you by chance own Invitation to the Classics? There are some introductions to different historical and literary works. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801011566/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1   If you want, I can check if certain books are in there. Unfortunately the Amazon listing does not have the TOC as a preview.

LOL! Not like I had a strong opinion or anything... 😉 😂 I'm sure Angelina Stanford (who is MUCH more knowledgeable than I am!!) will be able to provide lots of depth and context, and bring out some other worthwhile ideas.

One thing I find so interesting about Chaucer's Canterbury Tales is that they are not all original creations; he was often retelling in verse much older stories, classics, and folktales. My guess is that the Clerk's Tale is Chaucer's version on one of those older "character of a noble wife" virtue tales. I do find his Wife of Bath story to be surprisingly modern with the discussion of societal roles and power (and that the Wife of Bath is pointing out the power imbalance between the sexes), and also in the sense that the characters are even discussing what might be important to women/wives... 
 

54 minutes ago, cintinative said:

... OP, do you by chance own Invitation to the Classics? There are some introductions to different historical and literary works. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801011566/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1   If you want, I can check if certain books are in there. Unfortunately the Amazon listing does not have the TOC as a preview.

We enjoyed using that volume to enhance our DIY high school lit. studies -- and it's a great one for as you say, introduction to classics for one's own self-edification. 😉 

It's all run together, but here's a link to the works listed in the table of contents for Invitation to the Classics. Note: it is Western-centric.



ETA: Okay, I took a few minutes and turned it into a list with just authors/works (and dropped out the authors who wrote the background essays for each entry):

Ancients
Homer : The Iliad and The Odyssey
Aeschylus : The Oresteia
Herodotus : History of the Persian wars
Western histories
Sophocles : Oedipus rex
Euripides : The Bacchae
Aristophanes : Comedies
Plato : The republic
Aristotle : Nichomachean ethics
Virgil : The Aeneid
Roman and Italian classics
Early Christian writers
Augustine : The confessions

Medieval/Renaissance
Beowulf
Medieval Christian writers
Thomas Aquinas : Summa theologica
Dante : The divine comedy
Sir Gawain and the green knight
Geoffrey Chaucer : The Canterbury tales
The second shepherds' play and Everyman
Thomas More : Utopia
Martin Luther : The Babylonian captivity of the church, The small catechism
Devotional classics
Niccolò Machiavelli: The prince
John Calvin : Institutes of the Christian religion
Miguel de Cervantes : Don Quixote
Spanish classics
William Shakespeare : Hamlet, King Lear, Midsummer night's dream, and The tempest
John Donne : Poems
George Herbert : The temple
John Milton : Paradise lost

1700s
Blaise Pascal : Pensées
John Bunyan : The pilgrim's progress
Jonathan Swift : Gulliver's travels
Jonathan Edwards : A treatise concerning religious affections
Samuel Johnson : Essays and Rasselas
James Boswell : The life of Samuel Johnson
Western social and political philosophy
Jean-Jacques Rousseau : Confessions
Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay : The federalist

1800s
Jane Austen : Pride and prejudice
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe : Faust
William Wordsworth and Samuel Taylor Coleridge : Lyrical ballads
German classics
John Keats : The great odes
Alexis de Tocqueville : Democracy in America
Ralph Waldo Emerson : Essays
Frederick Douglass : Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass : an American slave
Nathaniel Hawthorne : The scarlet letter
Emily Dickinson : The complete poems
Herman Melville : Moby Dick
Gustave Flaubert : Madame Bovary
French classics
Charles Dickens : Great expectations
John Henry, Cardinal Newman : Apologia pro vita sua
Søren Kierkegaard : Fear and trembling
George Eliot : Middlemarch
Gerard Manley Hopkins : Poems
Leo Tolstoy : Anna Karenina
Fyodor Dostoyevsky : The brothers Karamazov
Henry James : The portrait of a lady
Mark Twain: The adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Friedrich Nietzsche : Twilight of the idols
Joseph Conrad : Heart of darkness

1900s
The makers of the modern world
James Joyce : Dubliners
Franz Kafka : The trial
William Butler Yeats : Poems
T.S. Eliot : Four quartets
Robert Frost : Poems
Modern poetry in English
Modern drama
C.S. Lewis : The Screwtape letters
William Faulkner : Go down, Moses
Simone Weil : Waiting for God
Dietrich Bonhoeffer : Letters and papers from prison
Flannery O'Connor : "A good man is hard to find," "Greenleaf," "Revelation"
Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn : One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich
Contemporary writers

Edited September 22, 2020 by Lori D.

[Miss Tick]

Wow! Judging by the TOC that must be a hefty book! Thanks @cintinative
I'll check the link out. I laid out some options at dinner and it sounds like Hamlet and Macbeth are winners, and I'm going to buy a copy of the abridged Don Q to check out potentially for the end of this semester. Perhaps we will circle back next semester and read Inferno. 

 

[Lori D.]

29 minutes ago, SusanC said:

... I laid out some options at dinner and it sounds like Hamlet and Macbeth are winners... 

Woo-hoo! My DSs really enjoyed both Hamlet and Macbeth -- we did them "reader's theater" style. DSs kept grabbing the female roles in Hamlet so they could do goofy female voices (you know, as in Shakespeare's days, guys played both the male and female roles)... 😂 

After reading through Macbeth, we watched Throne of Blood, Akira Kurasawa's 1950s b&w samurai film that is the story of Macbeth. So cool!