transfer situation/online degree- UPDATE in OP

[teachermom2834]

Ugh. My second ds. Nothing is ever easy.

He is only 20 yo but is in what should be his final semester. He took in alot of de and he has gone to summer school so he is set to graduate in December with a BS in marketing. BUT- he isn't going to be able to, I don't think. He is on his third try with an advanced business stats class. He needs a C- to graduate and he took a W the first try and then got a D last semester. He has tried, gone to a tutor, etc. I think it is really a case that he just isn't going to be able to pass it. 😞 He has three other classes that are extremely difficult this semester and I just don't see him passing all of them. So, I think he is not graduating yet he is so very very close.

This ds does not enjoy school at all. He is a decent student. Even with doing poorly in a few classes he has maintained over a 3.0 and kept his scholarship. He overall has done well. He could do better but he certainly hasn't done poorly enough or blown things off to the degree we would withdraw support. He's worked, has an internship. He's not a superstar academic but totally should be getting a degree. 

So he is just so frustrated and so are we. He has tried and just can't pass. But so close. He is going to come up 3 or 6 hours short of the degree, probably, but retaking seems like an exercise in futility. It's just too hard for him.

So, he is looking to put in transfer applications. He wants to stay where he is. He has built a life there and wants to stay so he is going to be looking for an online program. But that's going to be at least another 30 hours to get graduated. As a mom I don't hate this idea. He is so young he could use another year to mature, let the economy start to come back, hopefully, could work and do another internship and build his resume. But another year when he only needs a class or two? 

But he is really discouraged and wants to be DONE. I thought of Thomas Edison State and thought maybe he could finish that faster? I don't know much about that.

Anyone have any thoughts? He seems determined to finish so I don't think he'll be that person that lives the rest of their lives 3 hours short of a degree. But, gosh, such a disappointment for a kid that has gone to school almost continuously since he was in de and was really feeling great about graduating and had started reaching out to employers to get knocked back a year.

Anyone have any thoughts on Thomas Edison State in this situation? Or is there another reputable online school that doesn't require 30 hours in residency for the degree? 

This ds has always talked about going to grad school but it wouldn't be in a competitive program or an elite school or anything like that. 

UPDATE- He did it. Took the final in the class in question tonight and passed. Just one exam left and that is in a class he currently has an A in. It will be hard to believe until it is all official offical (which will be a week from today). But it appears he will be a graduate next week at this time. Phew!

Edited December 5, 2020 by teachermom2834

[8filltheheart]

Can he see if there is a way to use his completed hrs toward a different major? I seriously wonder if he could take fewer than 30 hrs to finish something else. Or take the class somewhere else and transfer the credit in? Has he met with his advisor? I suspect they will really want to work with him to be able to graduate.

[teachermom2834]

I looked all over for a class to transfer in and most business degrees don’t require such a stats class so I haven’t found an equivalent. This class is required for every degree in the business school so he would have to make a big change. I couldn’t find anything he could get without more than another 30 hours in another department. He hasn’t gotten much guidance from his advisor other than just to try again 🙁

[8filltheheart]

That's beyond rough. Has he met directly with the professor?  Begged for extra help from them so he can graduate?

[teachermom2834]

Yes. He has. But now he is worried about other classes even if he passes the stats class. He’s just so discouraged. I’m trying to get him to just see that we will help him figure it out but not to give up. 

We always knew this school was going to be tough for him. He’s been able to hold his own but it’s been hard. I felt for sure the prof would pass him in stats last semester. There just isn’t any end of semester bump or curve like we have had in most tough college classes our kids (and ourselves)have been in. 

I’m trying to encourage him to see it through to the end while helping him find a plan B. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by teachermom2834

[Lori D.]

Ug! So hard!

Could he request a special exemption and do a substitute course? Could he request work-experience-as-credit to finish out any remaining credits? 

It really is in the *school's* best interest to help a student who is that close to graduating -- otherwise the school's numbers on completed degrees go down because the student either dropped out just before the finish line, or transferred away so that another school gets to have that "diplomas awarded" percentage, and his current school is left with a higher figure for "students not completing degrees". What with all the craziness of the past few years, I think colleges are going to *want* to have the best looking stats possible to keep students coming in so that they don't end up having to close their doors... 

Just sharing DH's journey: he was ONE CLASS (3 units) short of graduating with a Bachelor's degree back in the 1980s. He just could not make himself do it -- burned out. After spending a year waiting tables, he hired on with our city's fire dept. and had a long and successful career there. During those years, that 1 class turned into 6-8 classes, as the catalog kept changing every few years. Fast forward 3 decades later, and DH retired, took 2 full-time semesters of classes to complete his Bachelor's degree -- and then immediately went on to complete a distance-learning Master's degree. 😉 I absolutely see it as a blessing and the very best thing for DH that he he did NOT complete the degree in his 20s -- instead, he went into a field that provided him with a steady income + benefits, and challenged him to keep growing and learning, as he developed an amazing skill set as a fire fighter, paramedic, and eventually captain of an engine crew.

[Lilaclady]

Can he take withdraw form one or two classes, take  a break and do an internship for next spring and Then retry in the fall. He should also go talk to his advisor and see what they say. 

[teachermom2834]

7 minutes ago, Lilaclady said:

Can he take withdraw form one or two classes, take  a break and do an internship for next spring and Then retry in the fall. He should also go talk to his advisor and see what they say. 

At this point I don’t think he wants to prolong the situation. He feels hopeless he would pass in the future and the longer he waits to transfer the further off he is pushing off graduation. So I think he’s ready to move on. 
 

But I am helping him see the options he has. I told him to me trying and we’d revisit the situation in a month. That would give him time to get transfer applications in.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I know we are supposed to let our kids advocate for themselves, but he is so close to done and only 20 years old.  I would absolutely talk to the administration myself before giving up on this school.  I know from personal experience that rules can be waived.  Because I was twenty and so close to graduation and my mom stepped in when I couldn’t.  

[cbollin]

Not sure that transfer is the answer. 

But....Some info on TESU:  he would need at least the 2 required courses there (SOS 110, and a capstone). plus pay the "credit residency waiver fee".  You can play around with the degree requirements and see what he already has toward it.  or some of the gurus on degreeforum.net can help plug and chug and have best guesses on what to fit.  That D might even transfer. I can't remember all policies.  (edit to add: grade of D can transfer as non area of study. so yes for gen ed, or elective. )

another "does not need 30 credits" in transfer is Charter Oak State College.  would still need 2 courses there that everyone has to take.

and the third of the Big 3 that let you transfer almost everything in is Excelsior College.  they require 7 credits minimum to finish. I know little about them.

Edited September 22, 2020 by cbollin

[Bootsie]

As several others have said, I suggest that he talk to his advisor.  A number of schools have put in some type of general education degree for students who end up having enough hours for a degree but do not meet the requirements for a particular major.  If he is within four classes of graduation, it would be much easier and faster to finish with a degree there than take 30 or more hours at another school. 

[teachermom2834]

4 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

As several others have said, I suggest that he talk to his advisor.  A number of schools have put in some type of general education degree for students who end up having enough hours for a degree but do not meet the requirements for a particular major.  If he is within four classes of graduation, it would be much easier and faster to finish with a degree there than take 30 or more hours at another school. 

I think he could get a general studies degree. Obviously not ideal but I thought he could go to grad school (he was looking at some online programs that shouldn’t be hard to get into). I thought if he was going to do that it would be better than spending that time just to transfer and get a bachelors degree. If he is going to spend another year anyway I was thinking that would be better- to get a masters that he wanted anyway. 
 

I do think when I looked there was a general studies degree. I actually think if he fails a class or two he could even give it another go in the spring knowing he could get the general studies in the spring if nothing else and move on.

I realize a general studies degree is not good - before people jump on me about suggesting that- but it is an option and I am trying to pull options together. Not ideal, I know.
 

 

[almondbutterandjelly]

Change majors to whatever is the quickest to accomplish.  On his resume, he could still say, like, "38 hours of business classes" or something so employers would see he had that.  Or apply those classes to a minor.

My brother was a CS major and could not get better than a D in a Calculus class that was required.  He ended up switching to English and applied his CS classes toward a minor in CS.  He wasn't as far along as your son, but that's my story.  He has been working in the computer field since graduation.

Best of luck!

 

 

[elegantlion]

Another option if the class if offered next semester is to drop it now and take it alone the next. He might find it doable if wasn't trying to complete other difficult courses too. 

 

Of course, I'd look into how that might affect financial aid. My son also is just ready to be done, but had to take 6 credits for qualify for fin aid. 

[Lilaclady]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the general studies degree. He will be able to have a degree which is way better than transferring and then not finishing with a degree. 

[teachermom2834]

2 hours ago, Lilaclady said:

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the general studies degree. He will be able to have a degree which is way better than transferring and then not finishing with a degree. 

I agree, And honestly, he was never going to get anywhere on his academic chops. He is a great worker/people person. He's great at jobs, not at school. He just needs the degree so that he doesn't hit a brick wall in the workplace because he is really good at actually doing things! But he was never going to be trading on academic awards and honors or test scores or anything. Bright kid and ambitious but not an academic. This is not new!

It's just so terribly frustrating and disappointing. But I have told him we support getting him through and I think a general studies degree and getting on with his life is a good outcome. I saw in the catalog that the general studies degree is only available with permission from an advisor or dean or something but this circumstance seems exactly what it would be designed for. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by teachermom2834

[Miguelsmom]

Look at interdisciplinary degrees also. They may be able to substitute the class with a different class with approval. He'll have some hoops to jump through. Does he by chance have his work from the D class he may be able to dispute it for a higher grade. Is he taking it with the same teacher?

[Matryoshka]

15 minutes ago, Miguelsmom said:

Look at interdisciplinary degrees also. They may be able to substitute the class with a different class with approval. He'll have some hoops to jump through. Does he by chance have his work from the D class he may be able to dispute it for a higher grade. Is he taking it with the same teacher?

That's actually what I did - I dumped my first major about two years in and there wasn't enough time to pivot without adding an extra year, so I submitted a proposal for an interdisciplinary major and graduated on time... he might have to get really creative at this late date, but it's certainly worth looking into.

I'd also look into what someone else said about getting them to waive or substitute the requirement for that particular class.  They do want people to graduate, and if you ask they're often more flexible than you'd think.  I worry about my dn who is a junior and still hasn't taken a required calculus class, and he's had no math other than stats that he somehow still got major credit for with a D since precalc in high school.  I'm not sure how he's going to get over that hurdle unless he can also somehow get a waiver or something.

[teachermom2834]

So far there doesn’t seem to be any flexibility on the course. But there has to be some way. You can’t get even a general business or management degree from this school without business calculus and two stats classes. There have to be other people who just can’t do it. In fact, when he took the advanced stats in the spring he told me half the class was retaking. I think the degree he can get is called something like General Studies with a business concentration. I need him to talk to his advisor for details but I didn’t want him to think I had given up on him passing. 
 

I have just been trying to encourage him to give it his best. He was close last semester- got a D+ and he needed a C- and the test that sank him was the second week of March when he was sick (possibly COVID) and he lost his job and everything was upside down. And he got no grace at all. He had a 68 in the class. So he thought he could find a way to pass. But then he started struggling in some other classes as well so he was just really discouraged earlier this week. But- he had the first of three Stats exams and passed with a 76. So he is not out yet. However,  he got a 66 on an exam in another class. Did I mention nothing is ever easy with this kid? Ugh.

Also ironic that my oldest ds got an accounting degree without stats or calculus required. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by teachermom2834

[ieta_cassiopeia]

Can he transfer in a masters'-level applied statistics course from somewhere (face-to-face in his area or online)? At that level, it's fairly common for undergraduates and postgraduates to share some courses, so it won't necessarily be any more difficult than the undergraduate course, plus it's possible he may find a more reasonable course administration if it is from elsewhere. That might open options to study in the spring, where he can concentrate on that plus employment instead of trying to juggle three courses at once.

 

If he ends up passing advanced statistics but failing something else, same principle for the other course.

 

Most of all, hugs, because you and your son are in an unenviable position.

[EKS]

My son's friend took four tries to pass Calc 4, and he finally did it when he took it by itself during the term immediately following graduation.  If this were my son, I'd recommend that he take the hard class by itself and hire a tutor that will work with him several times a week.

[BusyMom5]

He is so young, another semester isn't going to hurt him!  I would encourage him to stay in the class, and possibly drop one of the others he is struggling with instead.  Graduating Dec vs May isn't that big of a deal- and with his age he's still so much younger than others graduating.  I would not have him switch majors yet.  

[teachermom2834]

20 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

He is so young, another semester isn't going to hurt him!  I would encourage him to stay in the class, and possibly drop one of the others he is struggling with instead.  Graduating Dec vs May isn't that big of a deal- and with his age he's still so much younger than others graduating.  I would not have him switch majors yet.  

I totally agree. I have wanted him to just slow down (and cut back hours at his job) but you know, when you are 20 a semester feels like forever. 

In good news the 66 he got in another class was actually an A with a curve. He was extremely excited and surprised because he had pretty much never had a professor curve grades at this school. He was so demoralized having studied really hard and then just done so poorly. Turns out he did better than the rest of the class.

For now, he is still hanging in there are has a C or higher in all his classes with just a couple months left to go. I really think if he doesn’t pass everything it would only be one or two he doesn’t. I think he should just take those again in the spring. I think he would pass and if he didn’t he could make sure he was lined up for a general studies degree so he can move on. I’m totally comfortable with that outcome.

Thanks, everyone for the brainstorming and sympathy. It is heartbreaking to see how demoralized he is at the thought that he has come so far and is so close but just can’t get it done. But the week ended up better than it started. So we will see. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

You're very welcome. We're here to support each other. May all the other papers turn out better than expected, because being done this semester would be the best outcome of all.

[teachermom2834]

OP here with a mid term update. 
 

He was sitting pretty with As and Bs in all his classes after his first exams. The 76 on the first stats exam actually ended up as an 80. He had never even gotten out of the 60s last try so definitely an improvement. 
 

So he takes the second stats exam of the three he will have. He studies and thinks he is prepared and - he gets a 54.  🤬

So here we go down the final stretch of the semester. He feels good about all his other classes. His stats grade, and his graduation, will ride on the final exam in that class. Talk about stressful! Good grief nothing is ever smooth sailing. 
 

Thanks, all. I just needed to tell someone. Was really hoping he could do better on this second one and be more comfortable going into the final. 
 

(Though last time through he got a 40 on this particular exam. So there is improvement. Oy!)

[kiana]

Don't give up, a lot of times finishing strong and especially putting in consistent effort will cause a borderline grade to get pushed over the edge.

[MerryAtHope]

Praying he can stick with it in his final goes better!

[teachermom2834]

Update- he took the final in the trouble class tonight and passed. He actually thinks he is getting a B-.

So looks like I have another 2020 college graduate! 🙂 

[iamonlyone]

Woohoo!!! 🎉 Congratulations to your son and your family!!

[teachermom2834]

1 minute ago, iamonlyone said:

Woohoo!!! 🎉 Congratulations to your son and your family!!

Thank you! Not sure what is next for him but we’ll worry about that another day. The degree was a real obstacle for him and it is a relief he got it done. 

[iamonlyone]

Yes! When our kids struggle, their success is all the sweeter! I'm so glad that you all can celebrate that hard-earned diploma, breathe a sigh of relief, and consider what comes next.

Edited December 5, 2020 by iamonlyone

[RootAnn]

Yay! Thanks for updating!

[cbollin]

Love that update!!!!!!!  congratulations!

[BusyMom5]

Congratulations!  To both you and your son 😉

[MerryAtHope]

Wow, congratulations! So excited that it worked out for your son. That’s great perseverance!

[plansrme]

Love hearing the update! So glad it has worked out. The saying, "A mom is only as happy as her least-happy child," or whatever it is, also works as, "A mom is as stressed as her most-stressed child," so congratulations to you both! 

[teachermom2834]

19 minutes ago, plansrme said:

Love hearing the update! So glad it has worked out. The saying, "A mom is only as happy as her least-happy child," or whatever it is, also works as, "A mom is as stressed as her most-stressed child," so congratulations to you both! 

So true! This was fairly stressful! In fact, so stressful I am still waiting to see it all officially official before I really celebrate! 🙂