I don't like my US history curriculum...

[Mommalongadingdong]

This is my first year homeschooling, and am only schooling my 5th grader. She has a hard time focusing in school, and has thrived with the one on one instruction at home. She still needs a lot of explaining and repetition, and doesn't grasp big pictures and has a hard time connecting the dots unless explicitly told - and that is why I don't like my program.

We are doing Bookshark D (the US history 1) for history. I chose it because I wanted to align with the public school, she needs extra reading, and she prefers one on one time with me. I also have The Giant US History Timeline, Interactive US History Maps, and all the related Evan Moor History Pockets. Oh and 180 Days of SS Grade 5 and Joy Hakim's History of US series. I'm really only doing the BS readings/questions (which... come on this was only worth it for the schedule), and maybe one of those hands on activities a week. But I have those resources. They tend to not match up with what I have, and some see above her level or not interesting to her. I don't know if its okay to assign her something and work with it together entirely like for a writing assignment in those books I would have to explain the question and guide her through her ideas and writing. I don't know what a 5th grader should be able to produce, is that normal? 

Issues - it isn't teaching history. It's telling a story and having me ask questions. I'm filling in info and gaps on my own so she gets the historical context. I want something story like, but also very obvious it is real and historically accurate, and ties it all together. Also, I have no way to assess whst she's understanding besides conversations, which I usually have to guide her through and she usually remembers tidbits form historical fiction, but can't apply it overall. For example, we read Pedro's Journal and she kept saying Columbus wanted to find land so he could get the reward. (I asked why he was sailing, what was he looking for? She's refering to an offer in the book of money for whoever sighted land first.)

Does anyone know of something different that might fit for us? I don't mind a 1 year US history course, and want to spend <150ish. That or advice on how to teach what she's learning in a more traditional way, instead of just connecting historical fiction? My biggest issue is there is no assessment honestly. Is what she's getting the right amount? I don't expect her to remember all the facts, but she seems to be missing key points and remembering interesting tidbits. Is that appropriate? I know US history will be taught again later. 

 

If you read through this and still want to help me despite my insecure ramblings , I highly appreciate it! Thank you! 

 

[Clemsondana]

Is she reading from the Hakim series?  I'm not clear on what you're using it for and how it fits with you needing to explain everything.  I will say that, while i know a lot of people who have had great success with the Sonlight/Bookshark approach, my kids struggled with it because they couldn't tell what was real and what was part of the fictional story.  But, maybe if you covered the basic facts (whether from you or from the Hakim books) first, she could read the books with the idea of 'This is how that part of history might have looked from the perspective of Pedro'.  

It's completely OK to work together if that's what works.  It sounds like you're trying to do 2 things -  help with her reading/comprehension and also learn history.  There isn't a wrong way to learn the history (well, I'm sure there is, but it's not going to be about whether you're working together or independently or using a particular set of books), so I'd pick whatever approach you want to use for history and do what you need to do to help her learn the material that you want her to learn.  You might even choose one or 2 types of materials to focus on (Hakim, or the History Pockets, or whatever you find useful) and then treat the Bookshark books as less of a 'history program' and more of a 'reading comprehension practice using historical fiction that's set in a similar time period to what we're reading about in history class'.

I hope others will chime in - there are people here with great advice!  

[Janeway]

6 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

This is my first year homeschooling, and am only schooling my 5th grader. She has a hard time focusing in school, and has thrived with the one on one instruction at home. She still needs a lot of explaining and repetition, and doesn't grasp big pictures and has a hard time connecting the dots unless explicitly told - and that is why I don't like my program.

We are doing Bookshark D (the US history 1) for history. I chose it because I wanted to align with the public school, she needs extra reading, and she prefers one on one time with me. I also have The Giant US History Timeline, Interactive US History Maps, and all the related Evan Moor History Pockets. Oh and 180 Days of SS Grade 5 and Joy Hakim's History of US series. I'm really only doing the BS readings/questions (which... come on this was only worth it for the schedule), and maybe one of those hands on activities a week. But I have those resources. They tend to not match up with what I have, and some see above her level or not interesting to her. I don't know if its okay to assign her something and work with it together entirely like for a writing assignment in those books I would have to explain the question and guide her through her ideas and writing. I don't know what a 5th grader should be able to produce, is that normal? 

Issues - it isn't teaching history. It's telling a story and having me ask questions. I'm filling in info and gaps on my own so she gets the historical context. I want something story like, but also very obvious it is real and historically accurate, and ties it all together. Also, I have no way to assess whst she's understanding besides conversations, which I usually have to guide her through and she usually remembers tidbits form historical fiction, but can't apply it overall. For example, we read Pedro's Journal and she kept saying Columbus wanted to find land so he could get the reward. (I asked why he was sailing, what was he looking for? She's refering to an offer in the book of money for whoever sighted land first.)

Does anyone know of something different that might fit for us? I don't mind a 1 year US history course, and want to spend <150ish. That or advice on how to teach what she's learning in a more traditional way, instead of just connecting historical fiction? My biggest issue is there is no assessment honestly. Is what she's getting the right amount? I don't expect her to remember all the facts, but she seems to be missing key points and remembering interesting tidbits. Is that appropriate? I know US history will be taught again later. 

 

If you read through this and still want to help me despite my insecure ramblings , I highly appreciate it! Thank you! 

 

You have fallen in to a typical trap that new home schoolers fall in to. I did, we all did, for the most part, at the beginning. Basically, from the outside you think the public school is doing a ton. And you get worried your child will not get all that wonderful stuff they would have gotten at the public school. So you buy tons of books, trying to line up what the public school does. And you way way overestimated what the public school does. IF your child had been in 5th grade public school, reading would have been a collection of short stories or selections from books.  History would have been entire history topics summed up in to a few paragraphs and then more questions asked on worksheets than there had been paragraphs. And there probably would have been a few "hands on" projects (aka cut and glue). The teacher maybe would have pulled some videos out to show the kids too. 

 

If you want, you could just get an inexpensive 5th grade, US history textbook, used, from a used bookstore. Joy Hakims books are more for high school so forget that.  I am planning to use Star Spangle Story next year, which is meant for 1-4th grade, but go a little more in depth for my older child. Next year, they will  be 1st, 4th, and 6th. With my older children, I think I used tons of videos and books that I simply found that followed the topics. I did Story of the World so the American History topics came up naturally in the course of studying the entire world.

[EKS]

I recommend using the concise version of Hakim.  Read it aloud and discuss.  Occasionally have her write about the important and/or interesting bits.  You want her to get the big picture and, more important, to enjoy history.  If you do these things, I promise that she will be far ahead of the game when and if she returns to school.

Hakim concise:

Volume A

Volume B

Volume C

Volume D

[ktgrok]

If you are enjoying what you are doing - keep doing it. 

If you want something different, and US history based, maybe Blossom and Root? It's also reading from books, but it uses nonfiction, much more than historical fiction. Or Beautiful Feet? 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I learned about these books on here, I think from @Spy Car, but it could have been one of the other dads.  I love these books:

The Drama of American History series, by James and Christopher Collier.  

These books are organized topically, so that each book overlaps chronologically a bit with the book before and after; this means the first chapter of each book tends to give a good "where we are in the story" summing-up before launching into the topic for the book.  The books are short, between 6-8 chapters each.  We have the kindle versions, so I'm not sure on page count, but the chapters are typically between 10-20 minutes of read-aloud time.  

We read them together at the table, one chapter per sitting, maybe spending two weeks on a book.  In their independent reading list, they read historical fiction or additional non-fiction that corresponds with the time period.  For example, we are doing the Civil War right now.  We'll spend 2 weeks on the Collier Civil War book, then probably another 2 weeks on the Reconstruction/Jim Crow book.  In the mean time, the kids are reading Bull Run, Across Five Aprils, Battle Lines (Civil war graphic novel), Big Bad Ironclad (another graphic novel), Follow the Drinking Gourd (picture book), and a whole Mark Twain study that started previous to the two Collier books, but overlaps, including Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn, Celebrated Jumping Frog, and The Trouble Begins at 8 (a biography by Fleischman).  We'll also watch the movies Lincoln and Little Women.

So while we are moving basically chronologically, we are focused topically by the Collier books, which I find very helpful.  We read them together, so I address any questions or vocabulary immediately as we go.  

I've got the Collier books combined with the SOTW3 and 4 books, so we just pause SOTW each time we come to the next Collier topic.  I hope that makes sense.  

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Monica_in_Switzerland

[Spy Car]

7 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

I learned about these books on here, I think from @Spy Car, but it could have been one of the other dads.  I love these books:

The Drama of American History series, by James and Christopher Collier.  

These books are organized topically, so that each book overlaps chronologically a bit with the book before and after; this means the first chapter of each book tends to give a good "where we are in the story" summing-up before launching into the topic for the book.  The books are short, between 6-8 chapters each.  We have the kindle versions, so I'm not sure on page count, but the chapters are typically between 10-20 minutes of read-aloud time.  

We read them together at the table, one chapter per sitting, maybe spending two weeks on a book.  In their independent reading list, they read historical fiction or additional non-fiction that corresponds with the time period.  For example, we are doing the Civil War right now.  We'll spend 2 weeks on the Collier Civil War book, then probably another 2 weeks on the Reconstruction/Jim Crow book.  In the mean time, the kids are reading Bull Run, Across Five Aprils, Battle Lines (Civil war graphic novel), Big Bad Ironclad (another graphic novel), Follow the Drinking Gourd (picture book), and a whole Mark Twain study that started previous to the two Collier books, but overlaps, including Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn, Celebrated Jumping Frog, and The Trouble Begins at 8 (a biography by Fleischman).  We'll also watch the movies Lincoln and Little Women.

So while we are moving basically chronologically, we are focused topically by the Collier books, which I find very helpful.  We read them together, so I address any questions or vocabulary immediately as we go.  

I've got the Collier books combined with the SOTW3 and 4 books, so we just pause SOTW each time we come to the next Collier topic.  I hope that makes sense.  

 

 

As a heads up, just a few days I noticed that they have released the Drama of American History as a comprehensive e-book.

I'd actually sent emails to the publisher years ago urging them to do this. I never heard back and have no idea if my propting had any "influence" or not. 

I'm curious if they'd edited the individual books in the series to help unify the narratives chronologically or if they are exactly as published originally. Not sure about that. 

But the Colliers' DoAH books are very excellent IMO.

I should note that I was turned on to these my dear Moira (nmoira) of memory. Her early-death still hurts me. Painful. I think of her often. 

Bill

[ktgrok]

Does it have to be US history - or would a US geography year work? 

[BusyMom5]

Are you using the Sunflower brand history timeline?  If so, its my main source for my 4th grader thus year, too.  We are doing 2-3 pages a week.  I've got a lot of the same resources you do, and my older kids are reading and discussing the Hakim series.   My 4th grader isn't quite ready for that, so I've been trying to look ahead in the time line and figure out when something on the timeline is coming up and she listens on those days.  For reading, she's just reading the American Girl series this year.  She's also reading the Who Was series as she wants.   I think your book selections may be a bit above your daughter's head, so pull back a bit.  Our history is 30-45 minutes 3x a week.  

 

[Another Lynn]

If I remember correctly, Memoria Press has a US History spine and they also publish a workbook with 200 Questions about US History - or something like that.  I think you keep going through the questions even after you've covered the material to help them remember the key points.  

[Momto6inIN]

Normal 5th graders are not going to remember details about history. They will remember things they found interesting or unusual and if they can tell you what they found intetesting in a somewhat connected paragraph-ish kind of way I'd consider it a win! @EKS 's approach is what we do too.

[Hunter]

On 9/19/2020 at 8:26 AM, EKS said:

I recommend using the concise version of Hakim.  Read it aloud and discuss.  Occasionally have her write about the important and/or interesting bits.  You want her to get the big picture and, more important, to enjoy history.  If you do these things, I promise that she will be far ahead of the game when and if she returns to school.

Hakim concise:

Volume A

Volume B

Volume C

Volume D

I did not know that existed. Thanks for the heads up. How did I miss that? LOL. 

[Spy Car]

I found Hakim unreadable. Like "ripping my hair out" unreadable. Concise would have to be better for being shorter, but try any of the Colliers brothers works to see American history that's offered up in a highly interesting narrative that's well-written and well-informed.

One person's opinion.

Bill

[Not_a_Number]

23 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I found Hakim unreadable. Like "ripping my hair out" unreadable. Concise would have to be better for being shorter, but try any of the Colliers brothers works to see American history that's offered up in a highly interesting narrative that's well-written and well-informed.

One person's opinion.

Bill

How come? I've recently started thinking about teaching history more seriously, and I came across many people recommending her. 

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, Not_a_number said:

How come? I've recently started thinking about teaching history more seriously, and I came across many people recommending her. 

In my subjective opinion Hakim's writing style is leaden. I've always been a history buff--since childhood. But when I tried to pre-read her (oft recommended US history books) many years ago, I was deeply frustrated by her writing style. Others may disagree.

Hakim is also attacked by arch-conservative groups, which has no bearing on me. It is a matter of style and story telling ability, not a political bent.

It isn't often that I find myself "rewriting" an author as a read them, but that was a non-stop experience with Hakim. I wish I could provide fresh examples, but too many years have passed since.

The Drama of American History was the precise opposite. Great wring and sweeping narrative that really bring to light the struggles and divisions we've faced from the beginning. The Colliers do a fabiolus job of presenting the reasoning of both sides in contentious disputes--so a reader (a young mind) will understand the complexities involved vs "being cardboard cut-outs," even when it comes to groups like slave holders.

They are smart, accurate, and develop the materials to teach thematically.

Highest recommendation from me.

If Hakim works for someone, call my aversion to her writing my personal taste. But it is a "fingernails on a blackboard" experience for me.

Bill

 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

In my subjective opinion Hakim's writing style is leaden. I've always been a history buff--since childhood. But when I tried to pre-read her (oft recommended US history books) many years ago, I was deeply frustrated by her writing style. Others may disagree.

Hakim is also attacked by arch-conservative groups, which has no bearing on me. It is a matter of style and story telling ability, not a political bent.

It isn't often that I find myself "rewriting" an author as a read them, but that was a non-stop experience with Hakim. I wish I could provide fresh examples, but too many years have passed since.

The Drama of American History was the precise opposite. Great wring and sweeping narrative that really bring to light the struggles and divisions we've faced from the beginning. The Colliers do a fabiolus job of presenting the reasoning of both sides in contentious disputes--so a reader (a young mind) will understand the complexities involved vs "being cardboard cut-outs," even when it comes to groups like slave holders.

They are smart, accurate, and develop the materials to teach thematically.

Highest recommendation from me.

If Hakim works for someone, call my aversion to her writing my personal taste. But it is a "fingernails on a blackboard" experience for me.

Bill

Super interesting, thank you. I showed them to DH and he wasn't impressed, but I haven't looked at them myself yet. But it sounds he's not alone in not enjoying the style... he's also pretty into history. 

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, Not_a_number said:

Super interesting, thank you. I showed them to DH and he wasn't impressed, but I haven't looked at them myself yet. But it sounds he's not alone in not enjoying the style... he's also pretty into history. 

By this I assume you are referring to Hakim?

It has been a mainstay for a long time. Take a look for yourself. It is not for me. I'd revolt. 

The DoAH is available as an ebook (I just discovered). It was originally published as a series of (many) volumes that were hard to track. Libraries used to have them (typically) as hard copies. If you can find a way to preview the DoAH or have your husband check them out, I think he'd be impressed. The way the Colliers present history is precisely the way I'd do it if I put in the work myself. It is excellent IMO.

Bill

ETA: I found the DoAH Amazon link for the ebook. I'd suggest putting hubby to the task of reading as much of the sample as possible. I'm confident he will have a different response that he did with Hakim if we are like-minded history lovers.

https://www.amazon.com/Drama-American-History-Lincoln-Collier-ebook/dp/B072WHXZQ5

 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

By this I assume you are referring to Hakim?

It has been a mainstay for a long time. Take a look for yourself. It is not for me. I'd revolt. 

The DoAH is available as an ebook (I just discovered). It was originally published as a series of (many) volumes that were hard to track. Libraries used to have them (typically) as hard copies. If you can find a way to preview the DoAH or have your husband check them out, I think he'd be impressed. The way the Colliers present history is precisely the way I'd do it if I put in the work myself. It is excellent IMO.

Bill

ETA: I found the DoAH Amazon link for the ebook. I'd suggest putting hubby to the task of reading as much of the sample as possible. I'm confident he will have a different response that he did with Hakim if we are like-minded history lovers.

https://www.amazon.com/Drama-American-History-Lincoln-Collier-ebook/dp/B072WHXZQ5

 

Yes, by "this" I meant Hakim. I will definitely take a look for myself, of course -- I'm still in the preliminary stages of my research and am currently delegating some of the work 😉 . But at the end of the day, I have to see for myself. 

I'll send DH the link right now, thanks! I'm curious what he thinks. 

[Spy Car]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_number said:

Yes, by "this" I meant Hakim. I will definitely take a look for myself, of course -- I'm still in the preliminary stages of my research and am currently delegating some of the work 😉 . But at the end of the day, I have to see for myself. 

I'll send DH the link right now, thanks! I'm curious what he thinks. 

I'm not sure if it is possible to skip deeper into the DoAH (past the "Indians" introduction of European exploration) and get into the Age of Federalism (and Anti-Federalism) or the run up to the Civil War--or not--but as the "disputes" that shaped American history intensify, the more the balance of the Colliers bros (and their ability to present the best case for all sides) becomes clearly evident.

I'm curious to know the response.

Bill

Edited September 25, 2020 by Spy Car

[Momto6inIN]

Obviously Hakim isn't for everybody, but my boys (currently ages 20 and 18) still remember things from those books 8 years later!

[ktgrok]

On 9/25/2020 at 5:16 PM, Spy Car said:

In my subjective opinion Hakim's writing style is leaden. I've always been a history buff--since childhood. But when I tried to pre-read her (oft recommended US history books) many years ago, I was deeply frustrated by her writing style. Others may disagree.

Hakim is also attacked by arch-conservative groups, which has no bearing on me. It is a matter of style and story telling ability, not a political bent.

It isn't often that I find myself "rewriting" an author as a read them, but that was a non-stop experience with Hakim. I wish I could provide fresh examples, but too many years have passed since.

The Drama of American History was the precise opposite. Great wring and sweeping narrative that really bring to light the struggles and divisions we've faced from the beginning. The Colliers do a fabiolus job of presenting the reasoning of both sides in contentious disputes--so a reader (a young mind) will understand the complexities involved vs "being cardboard cut-outs," even when it comes to groups like slave holders.

They are smart, accurate, and develop the materials to teach thematically.

Highest recommendation from me.

If Hakim works for someone, call my aversion to her writing my personal taste. But it is a "fingernails on a blackboard" experience for me.

Bill

 

Thank you! 

I have one of the concise Hakim books and found it dull as dirt. Like, it was a regular old textbook but with more pictures. Just..not interesting. Oddly, I found the regular version better than the concise version. It was like they took out the interesting parts for the concise one or something. The reguar on was intresting to flip through, but not sit and read cover to cover. 

Just looked at the Drama of American history and totally agree with their approach of winnowing it down to the major themes. 

[Mommalongadingdong]

Okay everyone thank you all for your replies. I got the Drama of A.History book, the pilgrim one related to what we're on next, to try out. 

 

I really want to say the people to said its okay for a 5th grader to just hear and retain interesting stories - THANK YOU. My 16yo son took US history last year (on level, public school) and he could recount pretty basic stuff in comparison to what I was stressing over with my 10yo. I'm just going to continue reading novels and books, playing with the globe, and talk about linking stuff. I'm just freewheeling it, and using a textbook to guide me.

 

I have her in a charter and I have to submit a work sample monthly, and this month is SS and I think that's what caused me to freak out. I'm just going to have her write out what she can about Columbus/exploration/etc. and work with her on it once I see what she can come up with on her own. 

 

Again thank you all for your support and insight! I just keep needing affirmation that I am not doing her a disservice by having her home this year.