I don’t do confrontation with neighbors.

[Carrie12345]

I need to figure out how to though.

I’ve hated our next door neighbors for the several years they’ve been here, but dh and I always do the “Hey, how are ya” thing because dh *loathes* confrontation, and I’m not good with it when it comes to people I can’t escape (except family, lol.). They’re mostly only here on weekends, thank goodness, but they’ve managed to make me really resent them.  We’re in a heavily wooded area on acre+ lots, and I’m accustomed to nearly complete privacy. For over a decade, the neighbor across the street could see down my long driveway, and my other next door neighbor could see where we take the dog(s) out, but that was it. Then this neighbor started cutting down trees and building outbuildings, spending every daylight hour for 2 or 3 years now with a direct view to my beloved sanctuary.  So I don’t like him.

To top that off, he keeps his dog off leash.  His dog is generally not mean or threatening, he’s just a dog, but any dog can get mean or threatening. I used to figure he’d eventually learn his territory and quit wandering over to mine, but he hasn’t.  I also figured I’d be moving! This year, there have been a few times where the neighbor has walked through our property to get the dog, and that’s way over the line for me, especially since some of those times have been at night.  He freaked my husband out one night, and my 9yo another.  Yesterday, I heard them looking for the dog, and it turned out that he had wandered into another neighbor’s open back door.  This morning, my dd went to leave for work and the dog was on our property growling at her.

Our development does have rules that dogs cannot be off their owner’s property unleashed.  Our development has also had another uptick in vandalism and theft, and my husband is out of town, so I’m on high alert.  If this man comes walking through my property at night, we’re going to have some big problems!  At this point, it’s obvious that he doesn’t feel there’s a problem he needs to take action on.  I mean, he would have by now, right?

I’ve thought about just leaving a note on their door, but that would probably set their security system off. I’ve thought about widening our security’s detection zones, but we have bears and deer that it picks up and that would drive the whole block crazy.  I’ve thought about posting signs, including the ones you can buy that mention hiding bodies.  Not sure how those would be received because there is a small language barrier.  I could also report it to security, but that generally doesn’t go anywhere.

I guess I’m not exactly looking for suggestions on *what to do, but the encouragement to do *something*. I’m sick of having that dog around here, but I really need this man to stay off my property. But I also have to see him from my previously private space every time he’s here. I’ve let it go on for so long, it makes me feel like *I’m in the wrong at this point.  Even though I’m not.

[MEmama]

I don’t know if I missed it, but have you just asked him to keep his dog on his own property? That’s not confrontational, it can be friendly. Honestly, I doubt you can seriously do much (Like report it to security) until you’ve at least asked. Perhaps he doesn’t realize not everyone loves Fido, or that your neighbourhood has such a rule.

I'm not a let dogs run loose kind of person at all, but if I can understand that a lot of people would be clueless, especially living in the woods. 

[Scarlett]

This is part of the covenants to my boss’ housing developments.  5.3 just cracks me up,  but also serious in the requirement that you shouldn’t complain to the developer or HOA until you have done your best to work it out with your neighbor.  I know it isn’t Pleasant especially when you already resent him but just knock on their door and say hey, please keep your dog off of our property.  

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Scarlett

[Junie]

You said that there is a slight language barrier.  I'm guessing there's also a culture barrier.

I would talk to him soon and tell him that his dog growled at your daughter and you would like him to keep his dog off of your property.

 

[Carrie12345]

40 minutes ago, MEmama said:

I don’t know if I missed it, but have you just asked him to keep his dog on his own property? That’s not confrontational, it can be friendly. Honestly, I doubt you can seriously do much (Like report it to security) until you’ve at least asked. Perhaps he doesn’t realize not everyone loves Fido, or that your neighbourhood has such a rule.

I'm not a let dogs run loose kind of person at all, but if I can understand that a lot of people would be clueless, especially living in the woods. 

Oh, no. I’ve been a total chicken and haven’t mentioned it once.  That’s how avoidant/passive aggressive Ive been.
I mean, I’m sure he’s heard me yell at the dog to go home, but that’’s about as bold as I’ve been.  😑

[Innisfree]

First, like the others said, I'd just tell him that both he and his dog need to stay off your property. I'd be uncomfortable doing it too, but it needs to happen.

Second, to reinforce the point, on wooded acreage around here, people post signs. "Posted: keep out." I  believe they carry legal weight here, but anyway, they're respected.  At least around the area where my father had his farm, the vibe (to my perhaps limited understanding) was less unneighborly, and more just hey, dude, you need to not be in here. They're quite common.  Are those an option in your area?

[I talk to the trees]

I’m a “keep a paper trail in case things go sour” kind of person, so I'd probably start by sending a return-receipt letter reminding them of the development's rules, and telling them that their dog needs to stay on their property. If that doesn’t work, call animal control. I hate it when people let dogs (and cats too) run loose! Not only is it a nuisance for everyone around, but the poor animals don’t stand a chance if they wander into a busy street! 😔

[wintermom]

That's pretty frustrating. I'd have my dh do the talk with the neighbour, especially if there is a language/cultural difference. I think more cultures are used to men talking to other men. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, I talk to the trees said:

I’m a “keep a paper trail in case things go sour” kind of person, so I'd probably start by sending a return-receipt letter reminding them of the development's rules, and telling them that their dog needs to stay on their property. If that doesn’t work, call animal control. I hate it when people let dogs (and cats too) run loose! Not only is it a nuisance for everyone around, but the poor animals don’t stand a chance if they wander into a busy street! 😔

I think that is not the greatest plan.  That happened to me one time and it did not make for good neighborly relations.  I would first try a knock on the door.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

I would speak to him politely that the dog is a nuisance to your family, there is neighborhood rule, that it is not safe to walk on another’s property at night, and that due to an increase in crime you will be calling security if you see evidence of someone not authorized. 

Then I would send him a letter saying exactly the same thing, beginning with “I’m writing this to reiterate what we spoke of on -___day.” And then say it again, politely and non threateningly.

And yes, I would definitely inform security, even if they do nothing. However, when speaking to anyone, even the guy, I’d never mention your displeasure with him cutting down trees and building outbuildings. I totally understand the feeling, but some may see that as a “reason you’re being overly upset” with the guy.

 

Yes, this.  And honestly he may have zero clue that you dislike the dog being on your property.  I lived in the country until recently and dogs did often come on our property.  It did not bother us. But I did ask the girl down the lane to stop riding her horse through our front yard because it was causing huge holes!  But if you can just make your feelings known, politely and non threateningly I think he might easily comply.

[Innisfree]

17 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

when speaking to anyone, even the guy, I’d never mention your displeasure with him cutting down trees and building outbuildings. I totally understand the feeling, but some may see that as a “reason you’re being overly upset” with the guy.

Agreeing with this.

[fairfarmhand]

Yeah, just talk to the fellow. I might mention that due to the uptick in vandalism in the area, you guys are nervous about anyone being in the yard after dark. If Fido goes missing, here's my cell number, please text me and ask if he's over here. 

 

Honestly, exchanging cell numbers with neighbors has been a blessing. We get texts "Hey, I think your dog got out, can you come get it?"  and I can respond, "I don't think that's my dog, she's laying under the porch right now."  So us introverts don't have to actually go talk to people, we can just gently say by text "Can you come get the dog, he's barking and growling at my kids."

[Arctic Bunny]

Definitely don’t bring up past history, just the present facts.

DH is gone a lot

There has been a lot of suspicious activity in the area recently

You’re going to be calling police/security about anybody on your property instead of checking it out yourself.

Also, the dog growled at your daughter, so keep him off the  property as well.

Thank you, have a nice day.

[happi duck]

I personally wouldn't tell anyone your dh is gone a lot.  I would stick to "your dog is not allowed off your property".

If no one has told them, they truly might think it's fine the dog runs around anywhere.  We had a neighbor whose dog ran around all day while she was at work.  When we said something she cheerily said " it's okay!  She always comes home!"

[teachermom2834]

We have a problem with the next door neighbor letting her big dog run loose. He barks at us like he is protecting our own house from us. He stands in the road and stops traffic. He poops giant poops in my yard everyday often twice. I have opened my car door only to have it standing there waiting to bark at me. Such a giant nuisance!

Well, in this case the owner is an older lady. I have talked to her. Dh has talked to her. She kind of shrugs and says that is how it is. 

We live in a small town and she is well connected and we are outsiders (and damn yankees at that). Never felt in our best interests to call animal control. So I have a special shovel I use to clean up this dog's big poop every day. Just saying- I am nonconfrontational and that is where it has gotten us. 

[catz]

I'd have your husband talk directly to him in a friendly but direct way first.  And only because I think your husband is likely to get more respect from someone like this.  "Hey, just so you know it has scared our family multiple times to have your dog growling on our property or to see someone out the window at night when you are looking for Fido and there's a local leash law.  Can you please make sure your dog stays on your property.".  Then I'd move to reiterating in writing.  Then I'd call animal control if it continues.  

Some people really are that un-self aware how their actions might look and feel to others and need it spelled out for them.  But I'd have no issue moving on to animal control if you documented those 2 actions first. 

[barnwife]

I guess I am confused about why the neighbor's cutting down trees and building outbuildings has any bearing on this situation. I mean, I get that you don't like that now he can view your property. But I am assuming (which I probably shouldn't do), that these things are being done on his property. So that's really out of your control and you just need to make peace with that.

I agree with some other posters that I'd start with a conversation with the neighbor first. I mean, at least give the neighbor a chance to improve things before escalating the situation. Or at least, I'd want to, because bad neighbor relations are miserable.

[Pen]

 

Talk with neighbor about the dog and request that he keep it on leash or within a fenced area.  Try to just bring it to his attention as a deep concern due to the growling.

The dog probably had no idea where it’s territory legally ends and may see your family as trespassing on its own turf.  Many dogs consider all they can see or urine mark as “theirs.”   My son got bit by a dog who decided it owned the road and our side of street as well as its own yard, so I would recommend that you deal with this ASAP.  

Try to do “information” rather than “confrontation”. 

Look up human trespass rules for your area.  You may need signs. 

[Hyacinth]

Would it help to frame it not as a confrontation but as a conversation? I know it's still going to feel awkward and you'd rather not talk to him at all, but if you talk yourself into a confrontation, you'll probably get one.

It doesn't have to start that way.

"Hi Neighbor. We've never actually spoken, but I'm Carrie, your next-door neighbor." Slight chit chat about the weather or whatever. Then, "While we're talking, I need to let you know that your dog wandering into our yard is not okay with us. (Add information about aggressive acts from dog, increased crime in the area having everyone on high alert, and rules from the HOA).  

And end with "Thanks for listening. I appreciate you keeping the dog out of our yard. Have a great afternoon!"

Better yet, both you and your husband go and have the conversation.

[KungFuPanda]

Don’t assume he won’t respect your wishes when you’ve never even spoken to him. Is years of fretting easier than ONE conversation? Also, if you want to block the view of his property you can landscape or put up a privacy fence. I’m assuming he didn’t cut down any of your trees. You can’t really get annoyed at someone for using their own property and when he encroaches into yours you have to speak up. 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Fencing an acre or more is very expensive, and really shouldn’t be necessary as it’s not her dog escaping, it’s others trespassing.

I really, really despise the shoot/shovel  attitude for dogs that are doing what a dog is meant to do- run and explore until it’s tired out, aggressiveness is another matter.. It’s the owner’s responsibility, no fault of the dog. A neighbor has German short haired pointers that occasionally escape. They’ve run a mile to my house. When trying to find the owners I met some men who bitched that the dog should be shot because it chased deer. They didn’t want to tell me where the dog lived. I was a bit befuddled, because these same men have no trouble shooting deer that they’ve fed all year, putting out bearbait, or using beagles that live in tiny pens 24/7 to hunt . Now I see the dog is gone again, and I’m pretty sure who shot it.

 

My little Mazie is a German short haired pointer mix.  She has not yet escaped but I can't imagine someone shooting her.

Also, I agree the person with the roaming dog should be the one to build a fence to contain him.  

Edited September 18, 2020 by Scarlett

[Carrie12345]

I’m definitely not trying to start any debate over shooting dogs. I’m just trying to get other people to force me to face the fact that I need to speak to this guy, lol.

The background was really just to paint the picture of why we’ve never been nicey-nice neighbors.  I scoot my chair around to avoid him seeing me as much as possible.

The dog doesn’t pose a large threat other than what any dog of any breed has the capability to do. He’s a medium hound-type breed (oh, that whine!). Mostly he just startles us around corners and, the main issue, has his owner roaming around in the dark.  With tires being slashed and sheds being broken into, that’s just intolerable. Even with my dd saying he growled this morning, we’re more annoyed than fearful.  But we’re used to bears grunting at us, so our fear scale may be skewed. 

The land between our properties is pretty much all rock, so fence building and/or planting isn’t really possible.  I mean, I could pay a fortune for someone to come in with heavy equipment to dig down or build up soil, but I don’t have a fortune at the moment. Not that I want to mess with the natural landscape to begin with.  (I am thinking privacy lattice for my garden, deck, and balcony, but that has nothing to do with trespassing.)

No, I haven’t worked up my resolve yet. Dh is actually out of town right now, without a return date, which is probably why I’m extra anxious and also feel the extra need. I think they have guests with them this weekend, which doesn’t help.

 

Oh, and animal control isn’t really a thing here. I mean, we HAVE a county dog warden, but he’s infamous for not answering even serious, scary calls.  An annoyed neighbor isn’t going to rate, lol.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Also, I agree the person with the roaming dog should be the one to build a fence to contain him.  

In a perfect world, sure.

But... you can't actually force your negligent neighbor to fence their dog in. Certainly not without a credible threat behind it, like "If you don't, I will sue and definitely win" or "If you don't, I will take that dog to the nearest shelter" or "If you don't, animal control will come and fine you". (Or, yes, "If you don't get that animal under control, somebody's gonna shoot it". But unless you want to shoot the dog, and are willing to do so for anything short of an immediate life-or-limb situation, it's not going to work to get them to watch their animal.)

Sometimes it is easier to just accept the realpolitik of the situation.

With that said, in regards to the trees issue, OP can get ten free trees by joining the Arbor Day Foundation.

[Carrie12345]

17 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

With that said, in regards to the trees issue, OP can get ten free trees by joining the Arbor Day Foundation

If only they’d bring a jackhammer and truckloads of dirt!

[Pen]

I like “conversation” rather than confrontation.  

 

It sounds like the dog needs better training.   And to have its owner outside  when it is.  Hounds can be pretty difficult about going off after scents or sights depending on type of hound—and as you say aren’t especially known for aggression. But I still think growling at your daughter is a concern.  

He probably can’t exercise it enough keeping it on a leash. 

Actually given tire slashing etc perhaps a dog with a good bark is actually a good thing to have around. 

[Pen]

1 minute ago, OKBud said:

Get over it and hoof it over 😁👍🏻

It's going to be fine. Worst case, things continue as they are, which you can totally handle!

 

Probably that’s the worst. If the person is reasonably stable.   But if not stable,  anything could happen anyway for any reason or none. 

 I agree with “go do it.”