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Is finding a space for AP testing going to be even harder this year?


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54 minutes ago, Farrar said:

With the exception of homeschoolers and a few others, access to AP courses is generally a strong proxy to economic privilege. More than a quarter of American schools offer no AP courses at all. 

So 75% of American high schools are economically privileged. Got it.

Does your quarter of schools that don’t offer APs include top tier privates and publics that have done away with APs (but whose students can still take the exams, naturally), because they think they offer higher level classes? Because in my small sample of those no AP schools they’re about the textbook definition of privilege.

The bottom line where I stand is that the American high school diploma means nothing and is insufficient to enroll in university in Europe, for example. A couple of APs fix that, and I don’t think European schools are in the business of woke American privilege parsing. And, they cost so much less, so 🤷‍♀️  
edited to add, since the point of this post was not public policy otherwise none of us would homeschool: I was able to register at my local public as we’ve done in years past. The same contact had forgotten about the existence of exam only codes, but once reminded he produced them promptly. This school is still remote so I’m still afraid it may occur to them not to have extra people on the building once they open, but so far fingers crossed that codes don’t get cancelled (!!). this same school decided to administer the PSAT in January, in case that helps someone... 

Edited by madteaparty
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10 hours ago, madteaparty said:

So 75% of American high schools are economically privileged. Got it.

Does your quarter of schools that don’t offer APs include top tier privates and publics that have done away with APs (but whose students can still take the exams, naturally), because they think they offer higher level classes? Because in my small sample of those no AP schools they’re about the textbook definition of privilege.

The bottom line where I stand is that the American high school diploma means nothing and is insufficient to enroll in university in Europe, for example. A couple of APs fix that, and I don’t think European schools are in the business of woke American privilege parsing. And, they cost so much less, so 🤷‍♀️  
edited to add, since the point of this post was not public policy otherwise none of us would homeschool: I was able to register at my local public as we’ve done in years past. The same contact had forgotten about the existence of exam only codes, but once reminded he produced them promptly. This school is still remote so I’m still afraid it may occur to them not to have extra people on the building once they open, but so far fingers crossed that codes don’t get cancelled (!!). this same school decided to administer the PSAT in January, in case that helps someone... 

More impoverished and small rural schools have dropped AP programs in the last decade than wealthy schools according to news reports. Yeah, a few tippy top schools have made a show of dropping them, but that's not the majority. And obviously that's not what I'm saying. But I am saying that the poorer the school, the less likely they are to have any program at all. My own zoned high school has an AP program. It's a single class. By which I mean, not just a single AP exam offered, but also a single class for that single exam. It's a Title 1 school. No surprise.

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10 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

And kids who go to schools without AP program aren’t penalized. Any chance such grace will be extended to homeschoolers this year? 

Two things. One, yes, they are penalized. If you're an amazing student at a poor school, sure, you have an edge. But most students at poor schools don't ever get the chance to be amazing students in the first place. The kids who fight the culture, fight the lack of resources, etc. are exceptional in that they're the exception. We know this. We know that sending kids to better resourced schools helps them succeed. 

And yes, AO's are aware that getting access to AP sites is harder this year. Are some schools being absolute asses about it? Sure. But some are quite understanding.

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1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Two things. One, yes, they are penalized. .

No they aren’t. Admissions looks at what is available at your school. They state as much. Kids are expected to take highest level classes available to them. We are talking admissions here. Nobody is arguing that a rich kid at Exeter is getting a better education that a kid in a tiny rural remote place with barely any electives. You want to fix that, it’s a totally different topic. So please don’t twist my words. 

around here the biggest problem with schools in poor areas isn’t the lack of educational opportunities but drugs and gangs that recruit kids early. Kids don’t care to learn and the ones that do are sadly few. You don’t fix that problem by lowering and dumbing down admissions standards. It’s not an educational problem. Sadly it’s much, much bigger than that.

Edited by Roadrunner
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Well, this thread took a turn. 

I'm sorry so many people are indeed having trouble finding testing sites this year. But coming back to say that after my initial scare I found a local public high school (not the one we're zoned for, which ignored my e-mail) that let us register no problem at all. I hate that this is such a source of stress every year. And this year we're relying on AP exams more than usual because I don't want my 11th grader doing in person dual enrollment classes (he's doing one online, but he's not a huge fan of online classes in general).

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We got an e-mail from the college board that said that if you get an exam code, it's possible that if the school decides to limit non-students, the homeschooled student might be able to take the test in the online format they are developing.  They said that might help you negotiate with the school.

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2 hours ago, freesia said:

We got an e-mail from the college board that said that if you get an exam code, it's possible that if the school decides to limit non-students, the homeschooled student might be able to take the test in the online format they are developing.  They said that might help you negotiate with the school.

I wish they had sent this directly to all AP coordinators a month ago. I wonder how much misery it would have saved us all. 

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On 10/7/2020 at 10:45 PM, Roadrunner said:

And kids who go to schools without AP program aren’t penalized. Any chance such grace will be extended to homeschoolers this year? 

The Common Application added an optional section this year that allows students to address disruptions to their education, such as closures for coronavirus or natural disaster. I think this was something that they'd been working on because of evacuations from hurricanes and wildfires in previous years. The mass effect of coronavirus may have spurred them to action.

I think a student could legitimately indicate that access to test sites was restricted, due to school policy changes. On the other hand, AP test scores have limited effect on college admissions. The grade in the course has a more significant and direct effect.

Availability of testing doesn't alter the rigor of the academic experience the student had. It would have an effect on credit the student could receive once they get to college.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

The Common Application added an optional section this year that allows students to address disruptions to their education, such as closures for coronavirus or natural disaster. I think this was something that they'd been working on because of evacuations from hurricanes and wildfires in previous years. The mass effect of coronavirus may have spurred them to action.

I think a student could legitimately indicate that access to test sites was restricted, due to school policy changes. On the other hand, AP test scores have limited effect on college admissions. The grade in the course has a more significant and direct effect.

Availability of testing doesn't alter the rigor of the academic experience the student had. It would have an effect on credit the student could receive once they get to college.

 

This is what we have been told as well.  I do wonder though if that will be different given the lack of SATs this year. 

It does seem unfair though that a kid who scored a 1 and a kid who scored a 5 gets same treatment. We have ton of kids at our PS that get A’s and fail exams (get 1s and 2s). 

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Just now, Roadrunner said:

This is what we have been told as well.  I do wonder though if that will be different given the lack of SATs this year. 

It does seem unfair though that a kid who scored a 1 and a kid who scored a 5 gets same treatment. We have ton of kids at our PS that get A’s and fail exams (get 1s and 2s). 

Maybe it would be more accurate to say that strong scores can help, but that low scores might not hurt.

Even though College Board manages both SAT and AP testing, they are not reported on the same score reports. The SAT score reports sent to colleges have SAT and SAT Subject Test scores.  Advanced Placement scores are a different score report and are usually only sent to the college the student will be attending.

The Common App does have a section for Testing, where students can self-report AP scores. The student can choose if they report and which scores they report. I frequently see other educational consultants recommending that students only report AP scores they would like to have considered.

 

I do agree that the current system, that allows schools to shut out students who have learned the material and would like to test, is unfair. Finding a place for AP testing was one of my least favorite homeschool tasks.

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I may lose my mind trying to secure AP exam seats this year.  I’ve managed to find one of them.  Five more to go. 😳

In my daughter’s case, it kinda does matter. Passing AP scores on some of those exams would waive prerequisites for community college classes she wants to take next year.  Based on past experience, without AP scores she is unlikely to be granted prerequisite waivers.  

I’m not interested in rushing her through college, but I’d also prefer she be challenged with new material instead of rehashing stuff she’s already learned.  As it is, community college courses have been a cakewalk for her so far.  This year’s AP-heavy lineup is actually a challenge, which is good for her brain. 😜

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

DD’s AP Psychology teacher just sent the following good news:

 

 

Hello Parents and Students,

 
Good news for those of you who are struggling to find a place to take the AP Psychology exam.  Our director Susan Richman spoke with her contact at the College Board and he is actively working to make sure that homeschool students have a viable option for the exam in May.
 
Here is the list of new information that we have received:
 
  • The College Board is *fully* committed to making sure all homeschooling students are able to take AP exams this spring, and they realize this is being made very challenging in some locations because of policy restrictions at schools because of on-going concerns about COVID-19. 
  • Homeschooling families will NOT at all need to pay the 'late fee penalty' (normally $40) for NOT finding a test location by the mid-November early-ordering deadline. 
  • Basically, the advice to homeschooling families is NOT to continue trying to locate a cooperative school right now, as a NEW POLICY will be formally unrolled in *early January 2021* that will fully explain to schools the new CONTINGENCY EXAM option. 
  • This CONTINGENCY EXAM will both be an option for school students who will still be doing coursework virtually right through the end of the school year, AND for homeschooling students who would not otherwise be allowed to take an exam at a local school (even if that school would be AP testing of their own students on location in the school building). 
  • The *procedures* on how homeschool students can be formally registered for this CONTINGENCY EXAM will be explained fully in this early January policy announcement.
  • This CONTINGENCY EXAM will cover *full* course content, unlike last year's shortened at-home online exam. Again, in early January we will receive full information on any format changes that may have needed to be made. 
  • Pennsylvania Homeschoolers AP Online will fully communicate in early January about these changes, so that all students and parents know what to expect.  
This is good news for all of you still out there searching for a school!! 

 

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On 11/10/2020 at 9:32 AM, fourisenough said:

DD’s AP Psychology teacher just sent the following good news:

 

 

Hello Parents and Students,

 
Good news for those of you who are struggling to find a place to take the AP Psychology exam.  Our director Susan Richman spoke with her contact at the College Board and he is actively working to make sure that homeschool students have a viable option for the exam in May.
 
Here is the list of new information that we have received:
 
  • The College Board is *fully* committed to making sure all homeschooling students are able to take AP exams this spring, and they realize this is being made very challenging in some locations because of policy restrictions at schools because of on-going concerns about COVID-19. 
  • Homeschooling families will NOT at all need to pay the 'late fee penalty' (normally $40) for NOT finding a test location by the mid-November early-ordering deadline. 
  • Basically, the advice to homeschooling families is NOT to continue trying to locate a cooperative school right now, as a NEW POLICY will be formally unrolled in *early January 2021* that will fully explain to schools the new CONTINGENCY EXAM option. 
  • This CONTINGENCY EXAM will both be an option for school students who will still be doing coursework virtually right through the end of the school year, AND for homeschooling students who would not otherwise be allowed to take an exam at a local school (even if that school would be AP testing of their own students on location in the school building). 
  • The *procedures* on how homeschool students can be formally registered for this CONTINGENCY EXAM will be explained fully in this early January policy announcement.
  • This CONTINGENCY EXAM will cover *full* course content, unlike last year's shortened at-home online exam. Again, in early January we will receive full information on any format changes that may have needed to be made. 
  • Pennsylvania Homeschoolers AP Online will fully communicate in early January about these changes, so that all students and parents know what to expect.  
This is good news for all of you still out there searching for a school!! 

 

This is good news indeed!   I had given up finding DS a place to test this spring and resigned us to reviewing/testing for this year's APs in May 2022.  Looking forward to seeing what the CB rolls out.

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  • 2 months later...

I just got off the phone with the College Board after being hung up on twice by two different representatives who could only recite that I should check the website and find a school that would agree to allow my dd to test. Of course, the whole reason I was calling is that I haven't been able to find a school willing to allow her to test.....I asked to speak to a supervisor and then was hung up on.....

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3 hours ago, cuckoomamma said:

I just got off the phone with the College Board after being hung up on twice by two different representatives who could only recite that I should check the website and find a school that would agree to allow my dd to test. Of course, the whole reason I was calling is that I haven't been able to find a school willing to allow her to test.....I asked to speak to a supervisor and then was hung up on.....

I went reading over the message from our AP teacher. The information about those online exams should be available in early February, so hopefully we will know something in under a month. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So here are the latest AP updates, and here is PA Homeschooler's recommendations (thanks Roadrunner for pointing me to them upthread).

Back in the fall I was utterly unable to find a testing site for DS to take either AP Physics or AP Computer Science; looks like I need to go back to the schools and try again ASAP.  I am not at all confident that this is going to work out.

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1 hour ago, JennyD said:

So here are the latest AP updates, and here is PA Homeschooler's recommendations (thanks Roadrunner for pointing me to them upthread).

Back in the fall I was utterly unable to find a testing site for DS to take either AP Physics or AP Computer Science; looks like I need to go back to the schools and try again ASAP.  I am not at all confident that this is going to work out.

🥲

I hope it works out. It’s disappointing that they aren’t allowing us to register directly. Hopefully they can be persuaded to give you a digital code.

also, look at UC Scout. They are offering digital exams. 
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeZgrmBfA8fZmqtRzO9gYsH964s_Yw1xqYjnA2-2oKL2t3C6w/viewform?fbclid=IwAR3L9--mw_fzzUkMThGAfbd610kc8WZVI-Jgu22ivo2H2Bmqjc4WiC8-kP4

 

I have no idea how they are getting away with this or if it’s for their students only. So I wouldn’t count on it, but might be worth trying it as a possible option. 

Edited by Roadrunner
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  • 2 weeks later...

So has anyone heard from their high schools yet re: which AP Exam option/dates they’re going to go with for homeschooled kids registered through their school? I’m tempted to reach out so I know whether we need to be ready by beginning of May; but ‘our’ school is a bit of a scramble and I always seem to know more than they do about the AP process, so I suspect they haven’t even digested the CB’s announcement and formulated a plan.

I’m a little nervous (even though we already have our exam codes) since they weren’t equipped to take payment when we registered in the fall and I got no response to my 1/4 email asking if they want their payment yet.

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1 hour ago, fourisenough said:

So has anyone heard from their high schools yet re: which AP Exam option/dates they’re going to go with for homeschooled kids registered through their school?

No but they are still online, teachers aren’t vaccinated yet. I don’t expect to know until April whether they can offer the exams in school. My local community colleges already announced that they aren’t reopening campuses until summer at the earliest.

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I am still calling around trying to get a space.  Public high schools are still virtual here so presumably they will be offering the digital exams, but so far nobody has agreed to let my DS register.  I feel bad for these AP coordinators -- it's not like they don't have enough on their plates right now without dealing with some random homeschooler -- but there's no other option.

 

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We are doing AP Lit (at home, on our own) this year, and following the updates. Our local public school will allow my own kids to sit, but not the other 3 kids in our class. 

It's a HUGE disadvantage to the digital test-takers to not be able to go back to previous questions in the multiple choice portions of the English / humanities tests; it's probably less critical in the maths & sciences. That said, they'll get to type the FRQ's, and the pencil-and-paper students will have to hand-write them. (My kids are comfortable writing, but their essays improve dramatically when allowed to type them instead of hand-write them.)

What a mess.

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3 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

We are doing AP Lit (at home, on our own) this year, and following the updates. Our local public school will allow my own kids to sit, but not the other 3 kids in our class. 

It's a HUGE disadvantage to the digital test-takers to not be able to go back to previous questions in the multiple choice portions of the English / humanities tests; it's probably less critical in the maths & sciences. That said, they'll get to type the FRQ's, and the pencil-and-paper students will have to hand-write them. (My kids are comfortable writing, but their essays improve dramatically when allowed to type them instead of hand-write them.)

What a mess.

So I wonder how many MCQs will show up on screen at once. If I am understanding this correctly, you can’t change the answer, but can you scroll up and down and decide what you answer first? They said they would release a digital practice room in April. Let’s hope it’s more flexible than it sounds like right now. 

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11 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

So I wonder how many MCQs will show up on screen at once. If I am understanding this correctly, you can’t change the answer, but can you scroll up and down and decide what you answer first? They said they would release a digital practice room in April. Let’s hope it’s more flexible than it sounds like right now. 

I'm *SUPER skeptical. And also hoping I'm wrong. 

 

  • Exam security: 2021 AP digital exams have been designed with security in mind, so students can take exams at home if they are unable to test at their school. Digital exams administered at home or in school will:
    • Not allow students to return to answered questions or move back-and-forth between unanswered questions
    • Begin at the same time worldwide with synchronous section start times
    • Not include questions that can be answered with internet searches, textbooks, notes, study guides, or similar material
    • Include security features to prevent students from collaborating, accessing unauthorized aids, or attempting to have someone else test for them
    • Be reviewed with plagiarism detection software and other monitors and post-exam analyses for detecting exam violations
  • Exam violations on any AP Exam—paper or digital—will result in a score cancellation and additional consequences as warranted.
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32 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

I'm *SUPER skeptical. And also hoping I'm wrong. 

 

  • Exam security: 2021 AP digital exams have been designed with security in mind, so students can take exams at home if they are unable to test at their school. Digital exams administered at home or in school will:
    • Not allow students to return to answered questions or move back-and-forth between unanswered questions
    • Begin at the same time worldwide with synchronous section start times
    • Not include questions that can be answered with internet searches, textbooks, notes, study guides, or similar material
    • Include security features to prevent students from collaborating, accessing unauthorized aids, or attempting to have someone else test for them
    • Be reviewed with plagiarism detection software and other monitors and post-exam analyses for detecting exam violations
  • Exam violations on any AP Exam—paper or digital—will result in a score cancellation and additional consequences as warranted.

Yikes 😞

So they are going to give us one question at a time? That stinks. 

I am glad there is some security though. Last year I sent mine with his passport, social security card, and another form of picture ID into the room convinced they were going to at least make him hold it up in front of the camera. Nothing. 

Edited by Roadrunner
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  • 2 weeks later...

I didn't read through what's happened on this thread, but if there are California folks, I wanted to make sure you're aware that one of the charters (iLead) is offering seats for digital versions of the exams for California homeschoolers - PSA, PSP, or charter. I saw it posted about last week or week before, I think. So there are virtual seats if you're in California, though you may need to act quickly if you haven't yet.

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My kids are registered for traditional exams at our local school on the traditional day; I wonder if they'll take them digitally or on paper? (I could call the school and ask, but they may not know yet, and I'll just wait; they've been good to me, and I don't want to pester.)

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I was finally able to register DS for digital exams through a local private school.  What a relief.   I had to promise that we wouldn't try to switch to paper exams once he was registered.

 

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On 3/2/2021 at 1:29 PM, Lucy the Valiant said:

My kids are registered for traditional exams at our local school on the traditional day; I wonder if they'll take them digitally or on paper? (I could call the school and ask, but they may not know yet, and I'll just wait; they've been good to me, and I don't want to pester.)

 

On 3/3/2021 at 6:29 AM, JennyD said:

I was finally able to register DS for digital exams through a local private school.  What a relief.   I had to promise that we wouldn't try to switch to paper exams once he was registered.

 

I received an email from the school my kids are going to take their exams at. For that location, paper exams would be on paper and social distancing would be enforced if required without issues since that was already factored in. People can opt to take the digital exam instead but have to confirm by end of this month. My kids prefer paper because internet can go down and they would like to have the chance to go back and forth on MCQs.


https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/about-ap-2021/updates/digital-exams
“Students must be able to access a reliable internet connection that can support concurrent data transmission commensurate with the volume of students taking the exam in the same location.

...

Digital exams administered at home or in school will:

  • Not allow students to return to answered questions or move back-and-forth between unanswered questions
  • Begin at the same time worldwide with synchronous section start times
  • Not include questions that can be answered with internet searches, textbooks, notes, study guides, or similar material
  • Include security features to prevent students from collaborating, accessing unauthorized aids, or attempting to have someone else test for them
  • Be reviewed with plagiarism detection software and other monitors and post-exam analyses for detecting exam violations”
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First a vent:

While we had no difficulty getting signed up for exams last September, the counselor told us she would let us know when the school was accepting payments for AP exams. I sent her a follow up note in November and another in January asking how/when we could pay our fees. I got no response to either message. I emailed and called/left voicemail last Thursday, Monday, and again Tuesday of this week. Finally,  I got a reply from the counselor last night. We went in this morning to pay the treasurer for the tests. Grrrrr, this person is inefficient and unresponsive, and she apparently loves leaving things for the last minute. (Keep in mind this school has been open for in-person instruction all school year— this isn’t due to pandemic-related remote work inefficiency.)

And then a question:

In response to me asking when/where my DD would take her exams, here was her reply: 

“We will be offering the in-school paper and pencil exam for all of our test During the first administration... Please note that if the student do not attend the in-school paper and pencil exam, the exam will be defaulted to Administration 2 that for AP Lit and for AP psychology.  Statistics will also be paper based for the second administration (it  will only be digital during the 3rd administration)  For digital version exams, we will not be offering them at school.  The student will need to take the exam at home.  Please make sure to follow the instructions to download the AP exam browser.”

Can someone help me interpret and fact-check this? So if my student wants to take the digital tests at home, she can just no-show the in person exams during the first administration and she will be “defaulted” to the digital exams? How exactly will that work? Will the CB know to send her a link for the later tests? Is anyone else suspicious that if we did this, she might just lose the chance to take the exams this year? I did a live chat with CB and it was pretty unhelpful. It just said to check with the AP Coordinator at the school.

Any thoughts?

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3 hours ago, fourisenough said:

Bump, does anyone know the answer to my question above? DD REALLY doesn’t want to take the paper/pencil exam.

Collegeboard is correct in this case. Its the AP coordinators job.

https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/exam-administration-ordering-scores/ordering-fees/late-testing/switch-student-later-exam

“AP coordinators take the following steps in AP Registration and Ordering to move a student to later exam administration. These steps are about changing the exam date for one student at a time. You can also choose to change the exam dates for multiple students at a time per course.

...

Indicate Reason for Changing Exam Date

When you move a student’s exam date to Administration 2 or Administration 3, you need to indicate a reason for the exam date change, as in previous years when moving a student to late testing. As per usual, most reasons don’tincur an additional fee.

The following reasons can be indicated to address this year’s circumstances:

  • Select Covid 19: Social distancing requirements or lost instruction time if students need to test during Administration 2 or Administration 3 because:
    • Your school is unable to test students during the first administration due to social distancing requirements, or
    • Your school is unable to test students during the first administration because additional instructional time is needed, or
    • Local policies or conditions don’t allow in-person testing at all.
  • Select school closing: election, national holiday, or natural disaster if students need to test during Administration 2 or Administration 3 because your school has experienced closures or delays due to the coronavirus.

These are the later testing reasons that don’t incur an additional fee:

  • Academic contest/event
  • Athletic contest/event
  • Conflict with IB or Cambridge exam
  • Conflict with nationally, province-, or state-mandated test
  • Covid-19: Social distancing requirements or lost instruction time
  • Disabilities accommodations issue
  • Emergency: bomb scare or fire alarm
  • Emergency: serious injury, illness, or family tragedy
  • High school graduation
  • Language lab scheduling conflict
  • Religious/holiday observance
  • School closing: election, national holiday, or natural disaster
  • Strike/labor conflict
  • Student court appearance
  • Two AP Exams on the same date at the same time“
Edited by Arcadia
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/12/2021 at 10:20 AM, fourisenough said:

Bump, does anyone know the answer to my question above? DD REALLY doesn’t want to take the paper/pencil exam.

Okay, school where DD is registered to take her AP exams just sent out Google survey asking students where/how they plan to take their exams; apparently they’re leaving it entirely up to the students. DD chose all digital at home. That will mean Eng Lang and Psych during second administration timeframe and Stats during third administration. Glad to have that settled! DD is very happy.

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