Homeschoolers, Stop. Advising. Public Schoolers.

[HS Mom in NC]

Aaaaarrrrgggggghhhhhh!  I'm venting here because I've already explained it as explicitly as possible twice at the FB homeschool group. You can disagree, it's not a JAWM post.

It really bugs me when some poor struggling public school parent stumbles onto a homeschool page thinking "homeschool" means public school at home and then asks for advice for her struggles.  I'm guessing it's the newer homeschoolers who won't pay close attention and ask questions to clarify if they're actually homeschooling. Then when one of us does and it turns out they're ps at home, we explain the difference between homeschooling and public school options and that they need to contact the school and other ps parents because we're not qualified to answer their questions. 

But Little Miss Homeschool Consultant and her minions get in a huff accusing us of being tribalistic and hostile because we explained the differences and didn't "help" them. How can we? I mean I could guess some random stuff and talk out of my.... but that won't actually help the ps parent. It's guessing.  If the ps parent was content with guessing they could do that themselves. They're looking for answers homeschoolers don't have. And we should know that we don't have them.  We don't like it when people who don't homeschool try to advise us on matters they don't know about, so how can we advise them when we don't know?

Seriously, this was a question by a ps parent whose kid is in ps 6th grade trying to have her kid take high school ps classes online in addition to ps 6th grade for credit for a public school diploma.  Apparently at some point the high school said yes, but COVID is now screwing it up some way. Yet there were homeschoolers offering advice. I told her to contact the schools involved because they would know, not us.

If you don't know, say you don't know.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[fairfarmhand]

Oh yuck. I can see how questions on juggling toddlers, finding friends, getting into a Routine might be easily fielded but the specifics of academics are just not the same.

[Farrar]

Shrug. Sometimes they could use some good homeschool advice.

Sometimes they're asking about how things are going to be handled at school and no one knows and people need to point them in another direction.

I find that the advice on these big state level groups is all over the place. Some good, some really bad.

[kirstenhill]

2 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

But Little Miss Homeschool Consultant and her minions get in a huff accusing us of being tribalistic and hostile because we explained the differences and didn't "help" them. How can we? I mean I could guess some random stuff and talk out of my.... but that won't actually help the ps parent. It's guessing.  If the ps parent was content with guessing they could do that themselves. They're looking for answers homeschoolers don't have. And we should know that we don't have them.  We don't like it when people who don't homeschool try to advise us on matters they don't know about, so how can we advise them when we don't know?

Seriously, this was a question by a ps parent whose kid is in ps 6th grade trying to have her kid take high school ps classes online in addition to ps 6th grade for credit for a public school diploma.  Apparently at some point the high school said yes, but COVID is now screwing it up some way. Yet there were homeschoolers offering advice. I told her to contact the schools involved because they would know, not us.

If you don't know, say you don't know.

 

Yeah, that's kind of weird, oddly specific situation to be asking anyone in any forum about...like, how would anyone BUT the school and maybe the specific administrators involved in allowing that know?  I don't think that online/distance public schoolers are totally out of line in asking questions in a homeschool forum (like topics others have mentioned above -- entertaining younger siblings, socialization, setting up schedules or a good learning environment), and some of us have both homeschool and public school kids and can give suggestions related to both.  But so much varies from school to school that asking things beyond general questions seems weird to begin with. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

The advice given to Covid homeschoolers-those of us who are just homeschooling a year-is frustrating too.  It’s like people don’t want to read the actual question and the answer to everything is “deschool.”

I posted something on a FB group(I am homeschooling my younger two but plan to send them back into school) and the whole chorus was “deschool for a year! Don’t worry about doing schoolwork!” Well, that’s great until I want to put my kids back into school next year and they’re a complete year behind, thus proving my district’s view of homeschoolers.  I needed ideas on schedules and time management with my job and grad school; and just not doing the kid’s schoolwork and letting them deschool for six months is not the answer.

 

You also can’t “deschool” if your kids are in high school and being graded.  Or needing to complete credits to graduate. 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

Another topic I keep seeing is the many variations on the theme:

"COVID virtual online school isn't working for my kid, so I'm only going to homeschool this year.  What homeschool curriculum most closely matches my kid's ps so we can go back seamlessly next year?  Also, I'm working full time, so it has to do all the teaching and grading, I don't want it to be entirely online, my kid has to do it independently, I want an all in one curriculum, I have no idea where my child is academically in any subject, and I don't want to spend any money. "

And people start throwing out curriculum suggestions like they're reading out of the Rainbow Resource catalogue!

I can't get beyond the first question. The only person who could answer the first question would have to know what her particular ps is doing in each subject while having a detailed knowledge of multiple curriculum options that meet the specific criteria that follows the question. 

[Farrar]

Another who is tired of long term deschooling advice... but I also don't see it very often anymore. I do think more people should deschool for a few weeks. Like, if you are teaching K-8, then take some time to explore some field trips, try out some curricula together, watch some documentaries and read aloud some books together, etc. It will help you make your homeschool plan more effectively. But not for high school! And not for months and months... not unless you're deciding to unschool. In which case, great, but know that it's a particular path.

I'm sick and tired of the people who insist that you can do school in an hour no matter what. Like, sure, for some kids and if you want things to be really pared down. But some kids just take a heck of a lot more time. And if you want to do any projects or field trips or read aloud any books that aren't the length of a short picture book... then it's going to take longer. Like, this myth that homeschool takes no time is something I'm way over.

[Farrar]

I'm trying to have grace for the public schoolers who are stuck between bad choices. Some of them are asking for - not just unicorns, but unicorns that puke out gold for them spend - but for many of them, even if they can't devote much time or bandwidth to teaching, I think it's a better choice. I think a lot of it is about helping them see the pros and cons of each end. Like, the unicorn they want does not exist. So then it's about what do they want to put up with - whatever insanity their district is forcing on them - or the various downsides of homeschooling - the time, or the lack of educational time if you're not going to devote the time, the cost, the being off sequence with the district a bit... But we can also help them see what's realistic. It takes time, but maybe not as much as they think. It costs money, but again, you can spend time or money. Being off in terms of content is not that big a deal. Things like that.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Farrar

[Forget-Me-Not]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

You also can’t “deschool” if your kids are in high school and being graded.  Or needing to complete credits to graduate. 

 

This irritates more than almost anything else. Homeschooling high school is a whole different ball game that you have to prep and educate for. You can’t just randomly pull your kid out of high school and do what the elementary-age homeschoolers are doing. On my local FB page there’s a woman who keeps asking for “curriculum” for her 11th grader and can’t seem to fathom that it’s so much more involved than that.  All of the local home-based charters are full with waiting lists, it’s too late to enroll in classes at the local CC, and she’s getting truancy letters from the district. Someone suggested a private religious school that has a homeschool program, and she replied that they’d been kicked out of there because she refused to wear a mask. At that point I was like, “Oh, so that’s what we’re dealing with” and tuned it out. I have no idea what she’s going to do with that poor kid. She couldn’t seem to process that homeschooling 11th grade was going to require some serious effort and involvement on her part, well beyond buying a boxed curriculum and leaving the kid to it. 

[Garga]

39 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Another who is tired of long term deschooling advice... but I also don't see it very often anymore. I do think more people should deschool for a few weeks. Like, if you are teaching K-8, then take some time to explore some field trips, try out some curricula together, watch some documentaries and read aloud some books together, etc. It will help you make your homeschool plan more effectively. But not for high school! And not for months and months... not unless you're deciding to unschool. In which case, great, but know that it's a particular path.

I'm sick and tired of the people who insist that you can do school in an hour no matter what. Like, sure, for some kids and if you want things to be really pared down. But some kids just take a heck of a lot more time. And if you want to do any projects or field trips or read aloud any books that aren't the length of a short picture book... then it's going to take longer. Like, this myth that homeschool takes no time is something I'm way over.

Preach it, sister!  Amen!

Edited September 10, 2020 by Garga

[Garga]

10 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

This irritates more than almost anything else. Homeschooling high school is a whole different ball game that you have to prep and educate for. You can’t just randomly pull your kid out of high school and do what the elementary-age homeschoolers are doing. On my local FB page there’s a woman who keeps asking for “curriculum” for her 11th grader and can’t seem to fathom that it’s so much more involved than that.  All of the local home-based charters are full with waiting lists, it’s too late to enroll in classes at the local CC, and she’s getting truancy letters from the district. Someone suggested a private religious school that has a homeschool program, and she replied that they’d been kicked out of there because she refused to wear a mask. At that point I was like, “Oh, so that’s what we’re dealing with” and tuned it out. I have no idea what she’s going to do with that poor kid. She couldn’t seem to process that homeschooling 11th grade was going to require some serious effort and involvement on her part, well beyond buying a boxed curriculum and leaving the kid to it. 

Yikes. That poor kid.  😞

Once Covid hit, everyone was “homeschooling” and some people are seriously confused about what that means. I’ve had a couple of confusing conversations with a “homeschooler” who was just doing public school at home.  That’s fine...but it’s not homeschooling. 

I wonder if this woman is completely confused about what “homeschooling” really is and does just think there’s some sort of national curriculum out there. 

I know my MIL was gobsmacked that we didn’t head over to the school every year to pick up the books and instructions so we could homeschool. She was furious on my behalf that the school wasn’t providing what we needed.  She really could barely understand that I figured out each subject by myself and bought my own books and figured out how to teach it myself—and that I wanted it that way!  I think it took her a year to really understand what homeschooling actually was. 

[Momto6inIN]

Yeah. I don't even bother to answer any FB questions unless I happen to be one of the first few to comment and can kind of set the tone.

The potential damage this situatuon could be doing to actual homeschooling is truly frightening.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Momto6inIN

[Shoeless]

19 minutes ago, Garga said:

Yikes. That poor kid.  😞

Once Covid hit, everyone was “homeschooling” and some people are seriously confused about what that means. I’ve had a couple of confusing conversations with a “homeschooler” who was just doing public school at home.  That’s fine...but it’s not homeschooling. 

I wonder if this woman is completely confused about what “homeschooling” really is and does just think there’s some sort of national curriculum out there. 

I know my MIL was gobsmacked that we didn’t head over to the school every year to pick up the books and instructions so we could homeschool. She was furious on my behalf that the school wasn’t providing what we needed.  She really could barely understand that I figured out each subject by myself and bought my own books and figured out how to teach it myself—and that I wanted it that way!  I think it took her a year to really understand what homeschooling actually was. 

 

One of my son's online instructors made a point of asking families "So are you homeschooling this year, or doing public school at home?"  I appreciated that they made the distinction because they are not the same! 

I think some homeschool moms have made it a mission to "convert" crisis schoolers into full time homeschoolers.  Instead of helping, they are making a mess of things for all of us. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by MissLemon

[Forget-Me-Not]

27 minutes ago, Garga said:

Yikes. That poor kid.  😞

Once Covid hit, everyone was “homeschooling” and some people are seriously confused about what that means. I’ve had a couple of confusing conversations with a “homeschooler” who was just doing public school at home.  That’s fine...but it’s not homeschooling. 

I wonder if this woman is completely confused about what “homeschooling” really is and does just think there’s some sort of national curriculum out there. 

I know my MIL was gobsmacked that we didn’t head over to the school every year to pick up the books and instructions so we could homeschool. She was furious on my behalf that the school wasn’t providing what we needed.  She really could barely understand that I figured out each subject by myself and bought my own books and figured out how to teach it myself—and that I wanted it that way!  I think it took her a year to really understand what homeschooling actually was. 

I’ve encountered some of that too. When I homeschooled independently, I frequently had people ask me about curriculum and where I got it. Even now with one of the home based charters we use, I have a ton of freedom to pick curriculum—they just won’t buy anything religious, but even then I could still use it if I wanted to pay for it myself.  

[Sk8ermaiden]

Am I the only one who doesn't think "deschooling" needs to be the thing it is? Like I see the need in certain situations, usually when a child is suddenly pulled from a bad or traumatic school situation, and their parent needs to figure things out, and the child needs to decompress. But I feel like it gets recommended every time a child gives their parents pushback about wanting to do schoolwork. Like if you wait long enough your magical snowflake will be ready and eager to learn. 

My daughter has never been in B&M school, but if you left her alone until she was happily ready to learn with no pushback, she'd be playing Sims and watching TikTok for the rest of her life...
 

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Another topic I keep seeing is the many variations on the theme:

"COVID virtual online school isn't working for my kid, so I'm only going to homeschool this year.  What homeschool curriculum most closely matches my kid's ps so we can go back seamlessly next year?  Also, I'm working full time, so it has to do all the teaching and grading, I don't want it to be entirely online, my kid has to do it independently, I want an all in one curriculum, I have no idea where my child is academically in any subject, and I don't want to spend any money. "

And people start throwing out curriculum suggestions like they're reading out of the Rainbow Resource catalogue!

I can't get beyond the first question. The only person who could answer the first question would have to know what her particular ps is doing in each subject while having a detailed knowledge of multiple curriculum options that meet the specific criteria that follows the question. 

 This is a peeve of mine of Facebook groups period. It is worse there than anywhere else. You ask for something VERY specific. I need something like THIS, but not THIS. And in a second you have 100 recommendations, all "We love XYZ", no mention of how it applies to your situation and most of them very obviously exactly what you said you didn't want. Super obvious and obnoxious when you're asking about something for someone with dyslexia, auditory processing disorder, autism, etc. and the responder has no clue.  You don't have to chime in on topics you know nothing about!

[theelfqueen]

1 hour ago, kirstenhill said:

 

Yeah, that's kind of weird, oddly specific situation to be asking anyone in any forum about...like, how would anyone BUT the school and maybe the specific administrators involved in allowing that know?  I don't think that online/distance public schoolers are totally out of line in asking questions in a homeschool forum (like topics others have mentioned above -- entertaining younger siblings, socialization, setting up schedules or a good learning environment), and some of us have both homeschool and public school kids and can give suggestions related to both.  But so much varies from school to school that asking things beyond general questions seems weird to begin with. 

I do think a lot of people do not realize that their school, their district, their state does things completely differently than some other state, district or even sometimes school in the same district. So they dont know their question is hard for someone else to advise on...

[Murphy101]

I think home school groups should put those “questions to answer before joining” on their groups. 
 

1) If you are enrolled in a public k-12 school with in person or online - this is not the group for you.

2) If you are ONLY covid schooling, we can’t help make a plan for going back to school.  If that’s what you need, we are not the group for you.

[Laurel-in-CA]

Refer them to the state organization's web pages on How to Homeschool and Working with X-age/stage child. Well, unless they are a personal friend and then I ask more questions and refer them to Rainbow Resource for brain overload and Timberdoodle for fun stuff.

[Carol in Cal.]

My recollection is that deschooling started to be suggested when a child was leaving school in the middle of the year, usually in a traumatic situation of some sort.  And the assumption was that years of homeschooling would ensue, and that it was better to start it right than to turn it into a big fat opportunity for PTSD only at home and in the family, which would be bad.

It’s not for every situation.  It’s not even GOOD for every situation.

[rebcoola]

I'm technically a public schooler since we use an ALE and I still can't help the virtual schoolers.  It's just different.   

[TechWife]

This has all brought to light the fact that people still don’t understand what homeschooling is. When government officials refer to public school virtual learning as “homeschool,” that’s the tip off. It’s understandable why some parents in that situation would think a group of homeschoolers would be able to help. In reality, the differences need to be patiently explained. I agree that beyond some time management tips there isn’t much crossover between the two. I understand their frustrations. It would have been so much better if the schools had lowered expectations this year, covering the basics and not worrying about providing the extras. Instead, parents and school systems seem to be trying to do it all.  Virtual band class - really? Provide a book and a suggested practice schedule and then re-evaluate next year. Yes, I know there are some gifted musicians out there that need more, but that is the exception, not the rule. Don’t even get me started on kids trying to do five or six AP classes from home - that could take all day. In the end this all seems like people wanting everything to be “normal,” when in reality the kids and families in general would be better off if we acknowledged that things aren’t normal and looked with fresh eyes at exactly what needs to be done. In the area where I live, education has become a god and people are unreasonable in the best of times, so I don’t hold out much hope. 

[KungFuPanda]

13 hours ago, Farrar said:

Another who is tired of long term deschooling advice... but I also don't see it very often anymore. I do think more people should deschool for a few weeks. Like, if you are teaching K-8, then take some time to explore some field trips, try out some curricula together, watch some documentaries and read aloud some books together, etc. It will help you make your homeschool plan more effectively. But not for high school! And not for months and months... not unless you're deciding to unschool. In which case, great, but know that it's a particular path.

I'm sick and tired of the people who insist that you can do school in an hour no matter what. Like, sure, for some kids and if you want things to be really pared down. But some kids just take a heck of a lot more time. And if you want to do any projects or field trips or read aloud any books that aren't the length of a short picture book... then it's going to take longer. Like, this myth that homeschool takes no time is something I'm way over.

I think this theory formed with people who liked that they could school for an hour or two in k-2, but never upped their game as their kid grew. You CAN accomplish more at home than at school in a few hours for a few years. After that, you’re fooling yourself to make your day easier. 

12 hours ago, Sk8ermaiden said:

Am I the only one who doesn't think "deschooling" needs to be the thing it is? Like I see the need in certain situations, usually when a child is suddenly pulled from a bad or traumatic school situation, and their parent needs to figure things out, and the child needs to decompress. But I feel like it gets recommended every time a child gives their parents pushback about wanting to do schoolwork. Like if you wait long enough your magical snowflake will be ready and eager to learn. 

My daughter has never been in B&M school, but if you left her alone until she was happily ready to learn with no pushback, she'd be playing Sims and watching TikTok for the rest of her life...
 

 This is a peeve of mine of Facebook groups period. It is worse there than anywhere else. You ask for something VERY specific. I need something like THIS, but not THIS. And in a second you have 100 recommendations, all "We love XYZ", no mention of how it applies to your situation and most of them very obviously exactly what you said you didn't want. Super obvious and obnoxious when you're asking about something for someone with dyslexia, auditory processing disorder, autism, etc. and the responder has no clue.  You don't have to chime in on topics you know nothing about!

I’m not sure deschooling works too well in a post-internet world. There’s too much entertainment available. I can see it working better back when the kids could be screen-free and had to actively seek out their own activities. Brains were in the habit of doing more work, even in recreation. Going screen free all day didn’t used to be hard. You just turned off the TV. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by KungFuPanda

[Wheres Toto]

14 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Another topic I keep seeing is the many variations on the theme:

"COVID virtual online school isn't working for my kid, so I'm only going to homeschool this year.  What homeschool curriculum most closely matches my kid's ps so we can go back seamlessly next year?  Also, I'm working full time, so it has to do all the teaching and grading, I don't want it to be entirely online, my kid has to do it independently, I want an all in one curriculum, I have no idea where my child is academically in any subject, and I don't want to spend any money. "

And people start throwing out curriculum suggestions like they're reading out of the Rainbow Resource catalogue!

I can't get beyond the first question. The only person who could answer the first question would have to know what her particular ps is doing in each subject while having a detailed knowledge of multiple curriculum options that meet the specific criteria that follows the question. 

This is my pet peeve, and it comes mostly from the long-term homeschoolers.   Someone asks 3rd grade math and everyone just starts throwing out suggestions without asking even the most basic questions.  Do you want religious or secular?  Textbook, workbook, video, online?   At least narrow it down a little bit.  

[HS Mom in NC]

12 hours ago, theelfqueen said:

I do think a lot of people do not realize that their school, their district, their state does things completely differently than some other state, district or even sometimes school in the same district. So they don't know their question is hard for someone else to advise on...

Yes, I think it's the most problematic assumption by parents of school aged children. What a child's education consists of can be very different from classroom to classroom, school to school, district to district, and state to state.

Here's the thing, if you want uniform education in government funded schools across the nation, including in state universities so all credits transfer, you have to support national, enforced standards and curriculum so children can transition easily when they change classrooms, schools, districts, and or states.  If you don't want the national, enforced standards and national curriculum, then don't complain about the hodgepodge of differences.  Pick one and take what comes with it, America.

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Yes, I think it's the most problematic assumption by parents of school aged children. What a child's education consists of can be very different from classroom to classroom, school to school, district to district, and state to state.

Here's the thing, if you want uniform education in government funded schools across the nation, including in state universities so all credits transfer, you have to support national, enforced standards and curriculum so children can transition easily when they change classrooms, schools, districts, and or states.  If you don't want the national, enforced standards and national curriculum, then don't complain about the hodgepodge of differences.  Pick one and take what comes with it, America.

This phrase could be said about so many issues in our nation. Somehow people missed the part of life where "every good part, has its downsides. Nothing is perfect." And they whine about the problems with stuff.

[HS Mom in NC]

17 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

This is my pet peeve, and it comes mostly from the long-term homeschoolers.   Someone asks 3rd grade math and everyone just starts throwing out suggestions without asking even the most basic questions.  Do you want religious or secular?  Textbook, workbook, video, online?   At least narrow it down a little bit.  

And the other problem is that some curriculum options, especially math,  are unique and difficult to jump into after the first few foundational years. Yeah, I love a manipulatives based math curriculum too, but I'm not going to recommend one to the family jumping into homeschooling with an 8th grader. That kid isn't going to make up all the foundational concepts with concrete representations from all the previous levels to better understand the level they're at now.  It's not fair to the kid unless they truly need remedial, foundational concepts at beginning levels.  The 8th grader who isn't struggling at that level just needs something similar to what they were doing in ps. We shouldn't be recommending what is basically reinventing the wheel if we don't have to.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I’m not sure deschooling works too well in a post-internet world. There’s too much entertainment available. I can see it working better back when the kids could be screen-free and had to actively seek out their own activities. Brains were in the habit of doing more work, even in recreation. Going screen free all day didn’t used to be hard. You just turned off the TV. 

I've wondered about that too. It's so much harder now than even a decade ago to turn off all the screens. I do think deschooling is a mentality that most new to homeschoolers would benefit from... but for a few weeks, not months and months. And I often tell new homeschoolers to make deschooling a time ON, not a time OFF. As in, make it a time to try things, meet people (at least, pre-Covid), read aloud books, watch documentaries, try routines, look at curricula together, do a project... just things that are not starting the math curriculum or the workbook program you think you'll use. A time to try things you envision as being "cool" homeschooling things. To see how it feels and what works.

[HS Mom in NC]

Deschooling is promoted in my online circles and it drives met nuts.  I'm the contrarian who will point out that it isn't usually necessary, but an be useful for a month or two in situations with kids completely hostile to learning due to institutional school trauma. The automatic responses and unwarranted enthusiasm for it as a panacea is almost cultic.

[catz]

If your kid is in 6th grade and you want high school classes, time to homeschool IMO.  And I say that as someone who had a kid ready for college level courses about that age.  Your problems are not going to be well solved by the public school system. 

We did periods of deschooling/unschooling when my kids were elementary age and I didn't find it particularly hard to turn off the screens.  And we are very techy over here.   We just had enforced rules about what you could do certain hours of the day.  When we'd make a change, I could count 14 days and knew by then it would be a habit and whining would end about  it.  If you don't want to interact with your kids, lay down some boundaries, and be engaged many hours a day homeschooling or PS at home or online virtual school, etc is probably not a great fit for you especially with younger kids.  

Edited September 10, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[brehon]

This is a very interesting and timely topic for me. I work in a county with *mentally tots up* 15ish ISDs, several of which cross city and/or county lines. Many of my colleagues with children who attend PS in one of those districts have asked me about homeschooling. These same parents have either chosen full virtual PS or some variation of hybrid/full in-person PS for their kids this year.

The most common question is some version of “my kid doesn’t do well with online/virtual classes, is behind in X when I thought they were doing fine, I’m struggling with multiple kids using multiple devices on different schedules. You’re a homeschooler. What should I do?” 🤨

Now, these are my colleagues and have specifically sought me out. In my answers I’m very clear that what I’m doing (intentional, long term homeschooling) is vastly different and in many ways much easier than what they’re doing. My first question to them is do you want to homeschool either just this year or longer term or are you asking for help with PS issues. I generally cannot help you with the latter.” Most of my colleagues don’t plan on homeschooling. 

I mean, I’m happy to point parents toward Khan for catch-up/remediation in various subjects or tell them what works for my family with scheduling/working with multiple kids. Some of that may be helpful.  I’ve even let a couple look at some of the resources I use for their age kids. However, I simply cannot advise them about most PS issues. My advice is to talk with their kids’ teachers or administrators about issues with the classes, technology, etc.

This really isn’t what most want to hear. But the help they need is beyond my ken and my answers probably wouldn’t be helpful or appropriate. 

[Library Momma]

There are parts of the country where people just really don't know what homeschooling is and use the word to mean the virtual school public schools are providing.  I can't tell you how many pics I've seen on Facebook where on the first day of virtual classes people have their children holding up signs saying "First day of 2nd grade Homeschool!"  I've tried to tried to correct people in conversation and they look at me like I'm crazy.

I am 50 years old and have only ever encountered two homeschooling families in real life (and one flip-flopper who has probably tried every type of school).  

[Janeway]

Likewise, public schoolers need to stop telling home schoolers how to do everything. I never tell public schoolers how to school at home. But I have been given tons of advice, and it is really dumb stuff. For example, I just was told a couple days ago that I need to have a separate classroom set up and kids should "absolutely" not be allowed to be in the "classroom" outside of school time. The classroom needs to be a dedicated space. And I should be looking at blogs and pinterest for ideas how to have the classroom. Another person said that even a dining room or play room is inappropriate because it is too distracting. And they should not associate things like the dining room with school work.

[brehon]

13 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Likewise, public schoolers need to stop telling home schoolers how to do everything. I never tell public schoolers how to school at home. But I have been given tons of advice, and it is really dumb stuff. For example, I just was told a couple days ago that I need to have a separate classroom set up and kids should "absolutely" not be allowed to be in the "classroom" outside of school time. The classroom needs to be a dedicated space. And I should be looking at blogs and pinterest for ideas how to have the classroom. Another person said that even a dining room or play room is inappropriate because it is too distracting. And they should not associate things like the dining room with school work.

Eh, I just laugh (usually out loud) when I hear that type of dreck. I recognize it as the zeal of the newly initiated into <something>. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by brehon
Missing word

[HS Mom in NC]

45 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

 If you don't want to interact with your kids, lay down some boundaries, and be engaged many hours a day homeschooling or PS at home or online virtual school, etc is probably not a great fit for you especially with younger kids.  

I agree.  I think many people complaining about schooling issues in their house are really dealing with parenting issues, and maybe their own personality issues to some degree too.

[Murphy101]

6 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I’m not sure deschooling works too well in a post-internet world. There’s too much entertainment available. I can see it working better back when the kids could be screen-free and had to actively seek out their own activities. Brains were in the habit of doing more work, even in recreation. Going screen free all day didn’t used to be hard. You just turned off the TV. 

 Parents have final say on that stuff.  My kids don’t even get to type until 15ish. No smart devices.  At 15ish, they get limited use for school purposes and the devices stay in a common area where everyone can see. 

But that is never what I thought deschooling was. That definition seems to have changed a lot in the last 20 years. Back in the day deschooling was discussed as a time of adjustment to a new reality. Yes that’s how they did it at the school - but we don’t have to do it that way and it’s okay. And this is mom and dad and our house rules are the ones to be followed now. 

Even decades ago when I pulled my oldest ones out - I didn’t stop education as part of unschooling but I did try to be more charitable to their need to adjust to things. It was a lot more about parenting than education iirc. 

[Terabith]

4 hours ago, Library Momma said:

There are parts of the country where people just really don't know what homeschooling is and use the word to mean the virtual school public schools are providing.  I can't tell you how many pics I've seen on Facebook where on the first day of virtual classes people have their children holding up signs saying "First day of 2nd grade Homeschool!"  I've tried to tried to correct people in conversation and they look at me like I'm crazy.

I am 50 years old and have only ever encountered two homeschooling families in real life (and one flip-flopper who has probably tried every type of school).  

I had a very weird conversation when a doctor asked me how homeschooling was going, and I was honestly, genuinely confused because in my mind, I was not homeschooling.  My youngest was doing virtual school at home, and my oldest, while technically homeschooling at the time, was doing all their coursework through the community college, so I really wasn't homeschooling in a classical sense.  I mean, oldest was technically homeschooled, but not practically.  

Then I realized that the doctor just meant school at home.  But I probably came across as super ditzy and confused.  

[SanDiegoMom]

24 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

But that is never what I thought deschooling was. That definition seems to have changed a lot in the last 20 years. Back in the day deschooling was discussed as a time of adjustment to a new reality. Yes that’s how they did it at the school - but we don’t have to do it that way and it’s okay. And this is mom and dad and our house rules are the ones to be followed now. 

Even decades ago when I pulled my oldest ones out - I didn’t stop education as part of unschooling but I did try to be more charitable to their need to adjust to things. It was a lot more about parenting than education iirc. 

 

We benefitted from deschooling when I pulled my twins out starting in 3rd grade -- as a way to adjust to NOT having everything so darn regimented and focused around classroom management.  Because classroom manners are so ingrained early on, I felt like my kids couldn't find the boundary of how much talking is too much, how much discussion is too much, and really how to work hard on something for your mom rather than the somewhat scary teacher who might be upset if you do something wrong.   So for us it was first a time to just enjoy learning for fun (projects, lots of reading, documentaries, field trips), and then just a gradual ramping up of expectations as we added a new subject every few days until they were at a decent work load and were used to the new normal.  I was glad to have done it.  

I couldn't imagine doing it for a year.  

[Hilltopmom]

Or the “just buy a Brainquest Workbook- it has 180 pages, one for each day of the years and that’s totally all they need to do ALL year“ advice 😞

 

[PeachyDoodle]

Put me in the "over the advice to finish school in two hours or less" camp.

I just had a conversation today with a mom who was concerned because her third-grader is taking three hours to do his work. Like, three hours a day is COMPLETELY reasonable for a third-grader. But she keeps hearing all this tripe so she thinks she's doing something wrong.

And don't even get me started on the insistence that high schoolers should be able to finish in a couple hours a day because "changing classes and lunch" or something.

[Ellie]

22 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Another topic I keep seeing is the many variations on the theme:

"COVID virtual online school isn't working for my kid, so I'm only going to homeschool this year.  What homeschool curriculum most closely matches my kid's ps so we can go back seamlessly next year?  Also, I'm working full time, so it has to do all the teaching and grading, I don't want it to be entirely online, my kid has to do it independently, I want an all in one curriculum, I have no idea where my child is academically in any subject, and I don't want to spend any money. "

And people start throwing out curriculum suggestions like they're reading out of the Rainbow Resource catalogue!

I can't get beyond the first question. The only person who could answer the first question would have to know what her particular ps is doing in each subject while having a detailed knowledge of multiple curriculum options that meet the specific criteria that follows the question. 

On my FB page, we tell people that our purpose is to help them have the best, most enriching homeschooling experience possible. It is not to help them mark time until their children go back to school. We tell them that if they focus on having the best, most enriching homeschooling experience possible their children will be more than prepared for whatever happens in a year, but if they're really concerned, they should search for a FB page for their individual school/district, so they can all discuss it with each other. And then we turn off commenting.

[HS Mom in NC]

2 minutes ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

 

Y’all, I was the ONLY ONE above 2-3. Most said they barely spent 2 hours. With a 12 year old.  So I end up looking like psycho tiger mom because my kid actually studies something somewhat equivalent to the local private school 😑

I'm seeing that too.  It's disturbing.

I'm also not thrilled about what's being promoted as unschooling these days either. My experience with unschoolers has been teens building robotics labs, advanced programming (video game design, not playing)  and high level math that goes with it, actual business ownership, advanced music studies in multiple instruments, piloting, etc.  That's not what I'm seeing promoted these days by many homeschoolers. Too many people are counting playing video games and surfing the internet with no productive output that demonstrates long term useful skills.

[rebcoola]

I always feel like a slacker here because my 6th grader really does only do 2 maybe 3 hours a day. My 8th grader does 3-4.   Than I go on Facebook and see someone whose highschoolers are doing 1.5 hrs. 

19 minutes ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

On my state homeschool page on FB someone asked how long school takes with a 6th grader. I commented that it was generally 4-6 hours, depending on the kid, because there is much more to cover in middle school than in elementary and the speed a child processes and how deep they want to go can change things.

Y’all, I was the ONLY ONE above 2-3. Most said they barely spent 2 hours. With a 12 year old.  So I end up looking like psycho tiger mom because my kid actually studies something somewhat equivalent to the local private school 😑

 

[Paige]

It takes us a solid 6hrs a day for middle school and up. That's not 6hrs of me being hands on, but 6 hours of school related activity. I don't know anyone IRL who takes that much time. I used to think we were doing it wrong, but now I'm more confident. I don't see any way we could do less time and cover the same material. There's no way. Maybe my kids are slow- we have some ADHD and other issues- but I don't think they are that abnormal. 

I rarely even advise actual homeschoolers these days because they usually don't want anything like what we are doing. 

I wonder, however, why the virtual classes are going so poorly- especially for older students. My kids have had fantastic online classes from homeschool providers. We've had very few classes that were busts. I don't know if the quality is lacking, if the kids' and families' mindsets and expectations are so different, or what the deal is.

 

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Paige said:

It takes us a solid 6hrs a day for middle school and up. That's not 6hrs of me being hands on, but 6 hours of school related activity. I don't know anyone IRL who takes that much time. I used to think we were doing it wrong, but now I'm more confident. I don't see any way we could do less time and cover the same material. There's no way. Maybe my kids are slow- we have some ADHD and other issues- but I don't think they are that abnormal. 

I rarely even advise actual homeschoolers these days because they usually don't want anything like what we are doing. 

I wonder, however, why the virtual classes are going so poorly- especially for older students. My kids have had fantastic online classes from homeschool providers. We've had very few classes that were busts. I don't know if the quality is lacking, if the kids' and families' mindsets and expectations are so different, or what the deal is.

 

I"m betting it's a matter of trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. You just CAN'T do some stuff well over the web. So you dump that activity/style and find something that's more effective. Teachers and principals will have to think outside the box of traditional classroom stuff and it's just hard.

But also, my kids are used to 1. Get up. 2. Get your act together. 3. Get to work. 4. Get it done without someone standing over you. 5. Block out distractions while you're working.

Many kids in school are used to having the peer pressure of everyone working on the same thing at the same time in a relatively dull environment. I can imagine that it's hard to stay on task when you've never done this before.

[PeachyDoodle]

17 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

So I end up looking like psycho tiger mom because my kid actually studies something somewhat equivalent to the local private school

This is me. I've gotten so I don't really care; I'm just brutally honest in these threads. Do I think it's possible to school 6-12 (especially 9-12) well in 2-3 hours/day? I mean, I guess so. If you have a highly motivated student. Or more likely, if you have a student who isn't that academically inclined and spends the bare minimum on academic work but lots of time doing things that many people wouldn't consider school (learning a trade, etc.). I do happen to consider that school myself, but I can understand how sometimes in these discussions people can talk past one another.

But I do also think there is a subset of kids out there getting royally screwed out of a decent education because the insistence that you can homeschool without spending any time, money, or effort at all is real (cue my silly unicorn meme that went semi-viral a few months ago). I've become a vocal critic on all my FB groups of the all-in-one, all-online sites that have been making bank off homeschoolers for years AS COMPLETE CURRICULUM. They can absolutely be a stopgap measure if you're in a bind and just need something to get by on, and they can provide an easy way to check the box on a class that just needs to get done (we're using Acellus in that way right now). They remind me of those old breakfast cereal commercials -- part of a complete breakfast. IF you add toast and fruit and a glass of juice and...

I think this comes back to the OP here, because there are a ton of crisis schoolers out there right now who probably fall into the former category, but seeing these sites constantly recommended leaves everyone with the impression that they live up to their own hype, which they decidedly do not, IMO. And so we circle back to the discussion about whether or not homeschoolers should be advising crisis schoolers when nothing they are doing resembles in any way what homeschoolers who are in it for the long haul actually do. Except I fear that the longer this cycle does on, the more common the all-in-one, all-online providers will become the norm even for long-term homeschoolers. 

[KungFuPanda]

20 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I'm seeing that too.  It's disturbing.

I'm also not thrilled about what's being promoted as unschooling these days either. My experience with unschoolers has been teens building robotics labs, advanced programming (video game design, not playing)  and high level math that goes with it, actual business ownership, advanced music studies in multiple instruments, piloting, etc.  That's not what I'm seeing promoted these days by many homeschoolers. Too many people are counting playing video games and surfing the internet with no productive output that demonstrates long term useful skills.

 

20 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

My hatred of the current iteration of unschooling is probably a thread in and of itself. I’ve seen it done well a few times in the way you describe, but most of it is woefully inadequate to really educate and not just entertain. Child and interest led isn’t a bad starting point, but it’s not the whole story. 

Can we just agree to call this “none schooling?” Real unschooling done well is an inspiration. I didn’t do it because I didn’t want to work that hard! But skipping school every day and calling it unschooling? That’s icky. 

[HS Mom in NC]

4 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Can we just agree to call this “none schooling?” Real unschooling done well is an inspiration. I didn’t do it because I didn’t want to work that hard! But skipping school every day and calling it unschooling? That’s icky. 

Yeah, my friend Joanne, you guys remember the famous Joanne from here at the WTM boards, used to call it unparenting when we talked about it both in the context of unschooling and attachment parenting older kids. 

[GoodGrief]

22 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

On my state homeschool page on FB someone asked how long school takes with a 6th grader. I commented that it was generally 4-6 hours, depending on the kid, because there is much more to cover in middle school than in elementary and the speed a child processes and how deep they want to go can change things.

Y’all, I was the ONLY ONE above 2-3. Most said they barely spent 2 hours. With a 12 year old.  So I end up looking like psycho tiger mom because my kid actually studies something somewhat equivalent to the local private school 😑

 FWIW, 4-6 hours does seem kind of high to me for a middle schooler. I'm probably closer to Tiger Mom than No-schooler. My high school junior is not spending 4-6 hours/day on academics at this point.

Numbers are just so variable. Depends on how focused any given kid is during "school time", for one thing.

New homeschoolers are hungry for some kind of guidelines, and those are tough to come by. Waaaay back in the day, the search for guidelines is what first brought me to WTM. She offered a plan. Ultimately we did not stick with that plan, but it helped us focus for a time.

[Shoeless]

We spend about 3 hours on focused, butt-in-seat work for my brand-new 6th grader.  Kiddo reads independently every day for 2+ hours, and frequently chooses things like biology or history books to read.    For this particular kid, I think I would kill his love for independent reading by turning that time into structured, butt-in-seat type learning.  But that is what works well for this kid.  Results may vary for other kids. 🙂

I appreciate unschooling and we've always been a bit unschooly in some ways, but I am also not a fan of contemporary unschooling.  "My child existed passively in the room while a poem was read.  That counts as literature!" Nope. There needs to be engagement on the part of the student. 

Edited to add: We also school year round, so that skews the daily hourly commitment down a little. If we followed a traditional school calendar, we would absolutely need to increase the number of butt-in-seat hours every day. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by MissLemon

[mom2scouts]

My advanced, motivated 8th grader easily spends 5 hours a day and we don't even get to everything we want to do. From what I've seen with both virtual public school students and new crisis homeschoolers, there's not going to be much education happening this year.