BMV JAWM!

[Zebra]

This is a JAWM.   

Yesterday DD had an appointment (that took 2 months to get) for her drivers test.    We get there, there is nowhere for me to wait.   They take my car.   I had to stand in a parking lot while she took her test.  Fine, I lived for 30 minutes.    She got her license (YAY), but then we had to wait FOUR HOURS to actually get her license.   This has been happening since they opened by appointment only in June, according to the BMV employee who finally waited on us.

However, now you cannot make an appointment.   MANY of the the people that went in ahead of us had old appointments and would go up to the door and be allowed in.   And we had an appointment for a road test, but not getting the actual license.

They came around trying to get people to come back later.    They will not let anyone make any more appointments.   The only suggestion they had was to drive an hour away to a "possibly" less busy branch!   The people in front of us had to drive over an hour to our branch because theirs is closed, and had already waited a month on the 2 month temporary license.   The woman behind me needed to register her car because her municipality doesn't do it.   She had already gotten a 30 day extension, and the day before had been pulled over by a State Trooper and was told she MUST get her car registered ASAP.

My DD had to take the day off from work to go to her road test.    We were told 90 minutes into our wait that we had 60 days to get her license.   They did not tell us that when she passed her test.   And I was not going to lose the 90 minutes we had already wasted, have her take ANOTHER day off work, wait for another 4 hours in linr etc.   There was no indication, warning, etc we might wait in line for THAT LONG.

On top of that I had to endure the humiliation of desperately needing a bathroom, and fighting with someone to let me inside to use the bathroom.   They were not going to let anyone in until you go up to front of the line.   I don't know a woman in the world who can go 4 hours without using a bathroom.   Now I understand why people lose it!

A year ago the news was abuzz because people had been waiting at BMV in my state for "up to 100 minutes" which was crazy at the time.   So four hours isn't typical.   I've never waited more than a half hour.

We were standing next to the same people for 3+ hours.   Yes we were outside, and yes most were wearing masks.   Then we were inside for an hour.   But, if anyone around us had Covid, I'm sure we got it from them.

I do not understand how any of this is helping ANYONE.    This is not a haircut, this is license survival related stuff.   No one is at the BMV because they want to be!  People have to work and drive cars, and I don't understand how anyone has the time to wait in line for 4 hours for something that is vital and also be denied food and bathroom facilities.   And then, be exposed to all kinds of people for hours anyway.    It's just absolutely insane, heartbreaking, and I think I may finally understand all the people who fight masks and have seemed to give up.

I just never thought this country would get like this.   

[ktgrok]

wow! Of course, if you take the test, you want your license - that should be part of the same appointment!

And if they are apppointment only, they need to let people MAKE appointments!

[alisoncooks]

FWIW, I think this is unrelated to covid but rather a known DMV issue. I waited nearly that long pre-pandemic (last Sept), except of course we were waiting inside. It took 2 days of trying -- the first day I was told that the line was long enough they wouldn't get to me before closing...it was 2pm...so I left.  The second try, I got there 30 minutes before they opened and was still #15 in line.

But with the virus, they should totally have some sort of appointment system so they can move people out quickly. 

[Zebra]

18 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

FWIW, I think this is unrelated to covid but rather a known DMV issue. I waited nearly that long pre-pandemic (last Sept), except of course we were waiting inside. It took 2 days of trying -- the first day I was told that the line was long enough they wouldn't get to me before closing...it was 2pm...so I left.  The second try, I got there 30 minutes before they opened and was still #15 in line.

But with the virus, they should totally have some sort of appointment system so they can move people out quickly. 

It's not entirely.   The BMV was closed completely for 3 months.    Then they had people make appointments.   Now they have too many appointments and they have stopped them.   Some people have appointments made months ago, the rest of us have to wait in line for hours.      

We're not helping "fight covid" with any of this.   It's just an excuse for the BMV to be completely inept and abuse people.   They sent me a photocopy, with her road test date, of the new covid precautions.   There is absolutely no reason they couldn't send a warning with it of how long wait times are.   Or, they could alert the media about what is going on so we would at least be prepared.    Or they could put out porta-potties and chairs.    After 3 months of being reopened and insane wait times, there is no excuse that SOMETHING hasn't been done.

[cjzimmer1]

5 hours ago, Zebra said:

 

A year ago the news was abuzz because people had been waiting at BMV in my state for "up to 100 minutes" which was crazy at the time.   So four hours isn't typical.   I've never waited more than a half hour.

We were standing next to the same people for 3+ hours.   Yes we were outside, and yes most were wearing masks.   Then we were inside for an hour.   But, if anyone around us had Covid, I'm sure we got it from them.

I do not understand how any of this is helping ANYONE.    This is not a haircut, this is license survival related stuff.   No one is at the BMV because they want to be!  People have to work and drive cars, and I don't understand how anyone has the time to wait in line for 4 hours for something that is vital and also be denied food and bathroom facilities.   And then, be exposed to all kinds of people for hours anyway.    It's just absolutely insane, heartbreaking, and I think I may finally understand all the people who fight masks and have seemed to give up.

I just wanted to comment on the bolded.  If you usually got out of the DMV in 30 minutes, I would say that pre-COVID you must have the most efficient DMV known to mankind.  To be done in 30 minutes is unheard of, 100 minutes is on the short side of normal and 2-3 hours is typical and we are talking pre-COVID.  EVERYTHING takes forever at the DMV and it's pretty much a known fact that if you have to go there plan to blow half the day and count your blessings if it's less than that.  

However the whole you must make an appointment to accomplish these tasks and then tell you you can't make an appointment is complete bogus.  They really do need to come up with a better system. I haven't been to the DMV since COVID but ours has made some substantial changes to limit how many people actually have to come to the building.  Anyones license that expired during the spring was automatically granted a 3 month extension. We can now renew licenses online (we never could before) and the are issuing driver's licenses to people who have completed a certified driver's ed class (Yes, they are issuing licenses to people without ever making them take the test, I have issues with that but let's not go there) and moving as much online as they can (of course they still charge of service fee but I guess that's better than hanging out with hundreds of people for half the day).  It definitely sounds like your DMV needs to up their game.

Edited September 5, 2020 by cjzimmer1

[itsheresomewhere]

Same thing in NJ.  Now you are in line very early to get a ticket to allow you to been seen that day. Tickets are gone by 9am.  No ticket, no service.  And they redid the DMV so only some office now do cars and some do licenses.  Supposedly, that was to speed things along.  It hasn’t. 
 

We have a group of people here who are charging to hold your place in line. For 75-100 dollars, they will wait in the line to get you a ticket and call you as soon as they have it. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by itsheresomewhere

[Zebra]

7 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I just wanted to comment on the bolded.  If you usually got out of the DMV in 30 minutes, I would say that pre-COVID you must have the most efficient DMV known to mankind.  To be done in 30 minutes is unheard of, 100 minutes is on the short side of normal and 2-3 hours is typical and we are talking pre-COVID.  EVERYTHING takes forever at the DMV and it's pretty much a known fact that if you have to go there plan to blow half the day and count your blessings if it's less than that.  

 

I don't live in NJ or where ever you are from.   I live in Maine.    I have never experienced anything like this.   Why would I anticipate such a thing?   I expected it to take a couple of hours, I don't think that's unreasonable given my entire life experience here.   But beyond the 5 hours the whole thing took, I didn't expect the ridiculous conditions.   We had cars driving inches past us, people almost backed into us a couple of times.   All the other things I've described.    It seems like until some old person waiting in line has a heart attack, they won't do a thing about it.  And by October no one can count on waiting outside either.   

[MEmama]

2 hours ago, Zebra said:

I don't live in NJ or where ever you are from.   I live in Maine.    I have never experienced anything like this.   Why would I anticipate such a thing?   I expected it to take a couple of hours, I don't think that's unreasonable given my entire life experience here.   But beyond the 5 hours the whole thing took, I didn't expect the ridiculous conditions.   We had cars driving inches past us, people almost backed into us a couple of times.   All the other things I've described.    It seems like until some old person waiting in line has a heart attack, they won't do a thing about it.  And by October no one can count on waiting outside either.   

Yup, I don’t think I’ve spent over 20-30 minutes max in our BMV. Often less, just walk in, get what I need to do done, and walk out (also Maine). No one here would ever imagine an hours-long wait. 😞 The conditions you described are horrifying.

[annegables]

I heard on a philosophy podcast (Philosophize This perhaps?) the podcaster talking about how we all want equal treatment (this argument is in no way connected to race relations), which ultimately results in being treated like a number. (I am going to butcher the argument, but the salient point remains). His point was this, we say that, but we really want specialized treatment regarding our circumstances. The place where treatment tends to be the most equal, is the BMV. At the BMV (this has been my experience in several states), everyone, simply everyone is treated as a number. There is no individual consideration for anyone's circumstances. There is no incentive to treat anyone human, but instead as a number. The BMV is the ultimate in "equal treatment" and it tends to completely infuriate everyone who is forced to go there.

[athena1277]

There have been similar problems where we live.  Most people recommend getting there 30 minutes before opening and plan to wait in line for hours.  I’m dreading getting dd’s license in a month or so.

[WendyLady]

Last summer we moved from a small town with two DMV's within about 20 minutes of home, where I could register a car, get a new license or renew a license in about a half hour, to a large city with just 3 DMV's in the whole city. There are several smaller electronic kiosks and you can do car registrations at AAA and other places, but it seems just crazy that such a large population wouldn't have more than 3 physical locations.   

About this time last year, we needed to register our cars - we made an appointment but it was several months out and we needed to get a new car registered before our temporary tags expired.  We arrived an hour before the DMV opened and there were two lines that stretched across the parking lot.  So we left.  We came back later in the week 2 hours before it opened and we were able to get in the line, about halfway back... 

With the offices closed for several months I'm sure things are a huge mess. I cannot even imagine!!!  What a waste of time for so many people! 

Edited September 5, 2020 by WendyLady

[City Mouse]

When I lived in Houston, the DMV was like that long before Covid. Multi-hour waits for simple things like a driver license renewal were normal. Kids wanting a driver’s test had to make appointments and still wait a long time. I can’t imagine what it is like now.

One of the nicest things about where I live now is the differences in DMVs. This state allows any police officer to give the actual driving test (very common here in rural areas, but I don’t think that is done in the cities). Then you take the paperwork to the DMV to get the actual license. We do have other problems with our DMVs, but I have never waited more that 15-20 min.

[rebcoola]

What a mess basically you can do everything online here.  They made renewals all online used to have to go in every so many times.  Permits are being extended.  New licenses are even online.  Tests are through the training programs. If they don't have your photo on file you have to carry a photo ID plus your license.  Basically almost no one should actually be going in.

[Zebra]

28 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

What a mess!!!

At any point were people asking for an estimate on the wait? Given a number? Could you leave and come back? I am mainly asking in case you could have left with a number and resumed your place in line (to leave and use a bathroom or get a snack). That is terrible. 

You used to be able to go in, get a number, go do something else if you wanted.  Now they wouldn't let us even get a number until we got in the building, 3 hours in.   You leave, you lose your spot.   I spent 30 minutes standing in one part of the parking lot while she took her test.   I asked the other road test guys, "is there somewhere I should wait?" And they literally said, "Not near us."   Um, thanks.  And they could have told me to get in line then too.

We waited 90 minutes in line when someone finally came out and told us it would be 3-5 hours.

I wouldn't be complaining if they had given us a number and we could driven somewhere and found a bathroom or even been able to wait in the car for awhile.  

 

[katilac]

2 hours ago, annegables said:

The BMV is the ultimate in "equal treatment" and it tends to completely infuriate everyone who is forced to go there.

I tend to think it's the several-hour waits that infuriate people, mainly because there's no reason for it. There are numerous things they could do to improve the process and they simply don't do them. 

Taking appointments also treats people like a number, it just acknowledges that numbers might have other things to do.

[annegables]

44 minutes ago, katilac said:

I tend to think it's the several-hour waits that infuriate people, mainly because there's no reason for it. There are numerous things they could do to improve the process and they simply don't do them. 

Taking appointments also treats people like a number, it just acknowledges that numbers might have other things to do.

Oh, I agree completely. Sorry, my original post that you quoted was more just ruminating on that concept and I don't totally know how I feel about it, but it has provided me with lots to think about. Why I am spending my time thinking about the BMV is justification for questioning my sanity...

What fascinates me about the BMV is why the wait times are so long, especially in urban areas. So much can be done online now, that you would think this would have eliminated some of the burden. But it is as though the number of buildings and staff have not been increased since the invention of cars. And that one can have an appointment and still wait half a day. I think it is a fabulous case for no one there having any incentive to make the process any better. 

Now, I recently had a surprisingly good experience at the DMV with very friendly people who were understanding and helpful. But the actual system that they are working in was a big pain.

[Kalmia]

The DMV in NY and I are old enemies. I have easily spent 5 hours at a time in several DMV offices there, once I had to go back three times for a car registration, another I had to go back three times for a driver's license. I have literally had nightmares about the place. My husband thought I was overreacting until he had to go register the car that was only in his name. He came back sooo apologetic. 

When we moved back to Maine this summer, my town office handled the car registrations so only the driver's licenses were left for us to get. At the time (a month or two ago) the Topsham BMV was making appointments to switch an out of state license for a Maine one. Appointments were for 15 minute increments. I had the first appointment of the day. I went in, handed them the proofs and showed them my NY license and was out in 15 minutes! It was joyful, almost unbelievable experience. But my son and husband procrastinated. Now they are not taking appointments at most BMV locations and from Zebra's descriptions they might have to wait in lines for hours in a pandemic. My husband can fend for himself. I told him to make an appointment back then and he didn't. But my son has Asperger's and I know standing outside in the sun with potentially infected folks is going to cause a problem for him. I can't see any reason the 15 minute appointment system wasn't workable. They aren't doing REAL IDs right now, so just a few proofs needed. (This does of course mean in the future I am going to have to go back with the 50,000 proofs needed for a REAL ID... shudder.) Of course, taking a road test and a getting a first license is more involved, but still. 

I am so sorry you had that experience. I won't post it because it has a celebrity in it, but look up the meme "The Stages of Waiting at the DMV presented by Leonardo DiCaprio." It captures the pain perfectly. (Warning: there is foul language.)

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Kalmia