Undocumented and marriage (complicated)

[Ann.without.an.e]

Do y'all know anyone with experience marrying an illegal immigrant?  Someone I love dearly is in love with a someone who is undocumented. He was brought here at 5 years old by his mom (so not his choice). He does not have resident status. I fear this person is falling in love and marrying someone who can be deported?  I have tried to read up on these things and there are such conflicting ideas.

Does anyone here actually know anything about this?  If I have influence in this person's life I should try my best to point out all these red flags?  This is not about his race at all,  I wouldn't have qualms about it if he had a green card or visa or something legal because then it seems a marriage visa would be easy. 

He is a really great young man and they have a very cute relationship.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Ann.without.an.e

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Do y'all know anyone with experience marrying an illegal immigrant?  Someone I love dearly is in love with a someone who is undocumented. He was brought here at 5 years old by his mom (so not his choice). He does not have resident status. I fear this person is falling in love and marrying someone who can be deported?  I have tried to read up on these things and there are such conflicting ideas.

Does anyone here actually know anything about this?  If I have influence in this person's life I should try my best to point out all these red flags?  This is not about his race at all,  I wouldn't have qualms about it if he had a green card or visa or something legal because then it seems a marriage visa would be easy. 

He is a really great young man and they have a very cute relationship.

Does he qualify for DACA?

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Does he qualify for DACA?

 

 

I think he is just a tad out of age range (he's 28). DACA came a bit later right?  See, I am not prejudiced haha. I would be fine if he had DACA.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Ann.without.an.e

[sassenach]

A young woman in my life dated a DACA kid for awhile and it looked like they might get married. It was a scary and complicated deal. They broke up for other reasons but had they decided to get married, they would need a really good immigration lawyer to help them through it all (and even that wasn't a guarantee). 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

12 minutes ago, sassenach said:

A young woman in my life dated a DACA kid for awhile and it looked like they might get married. It was a scary and complicated deal. They broke up for other reasons but had they decided to get married, they would need a really good immigration lawyer to help them through it all (and even that wasn't a guarantee). 

 

 

But at least DACA keeps you from getting deported right?  I don't think this guy even has that so I am even more concerned. 

[Katy]

I knew someone who was undocumented before DACA (though she would have qualified).  She married an American, got a green card, then became a citizen. I don't know details about the process, but getting married relieved her fear of being deported.  I don't know how that might apply to today's political situation.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Sent you a PM.

[Tanaqui]

This man needs to speak with a lawyer. Many places have free or low cost legal aid, and this is precisely the sort of situation they're supposed to help with.

[Ann.without.an.e]

10 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

This man needs to speak with a lawyer. Many places have free or low cost legal aid, and this is precisely the sort of situation they're supposed to help with.

 

He wanted to get the right paperwork for being brought here as a child but he said it was just so expensive with no guarantees. 

[Tanaqui]

He's right, there are no guarantees - even adoptees have been deported because our immigration system is severely flawed. But you have a better chance with professional help from people who know your precise situation.

[City Mouse]

I have know of a few situations like this where the undocumented spouse got deported due to criminal conviction. (And the criminal conviction can seem rather minor) When that happens, there is nothing else to be done. I had a student and parent in my class a few years ago who were in this exact situation. The mom and the kid where working and going to school in a border state while the dad was in Mexico. 

[Paige]

I have a couple friends who had a similar situation but both came more recently as adults and overstayed visas. They were in the country less than 10 yrs and were already married with kids when they tried to fix the situation. They both hired pricey attorneys to help them out and it all worked out in the end but I don't know how or why they succeeded. 

[MercyA]

No advice, but I wish them the best. ❤️

[vmsurbat1]

Definitely need a good lawyer to navigate these waters.  It is quite a process for Americans to wed foreigners in general, and those with issues--like no documents or overstayed visas-- can expect even more difficulties and dire consequences if ignoring the hoops to jump through...  (We know of at least a dozen American+Foreigner marriages. So many hoops even under the best of circumstances.)

[Lanny]

In the OP you included:  " I wouldn't have qualms about it if he had a green card or visa or something legal because then it seems a marriage visa would be easy."     Not easy and that might take approximately 5 years.

My only thoughts on this situation are: (1) If he qualified for "DACA" possibly that would help him/them but you mentioned in this thread that you do not believe his age qualifies him for "DACA" and (2)  They could probably spend $50 to $100 K USD on an Immigration Attorney and end up where they are today, with nothing but receipts for payments to the Immigration Attorney.

As someone upthread wrote,     if he has any legal issues (criminal, not civil)  that increases the possibility  he will be deported.

He would probably need to go back to the country where he was born, get a valid Passport, and then have her apply to get a Fiancee Visa for him. However, that might take approximately 5 years. At the moment, because of COVID-19 the Visa Section in the U.S. Embassy here is closed, so one might assume they will have a backlog when they reopen.

DIL has a friend (or cousin?) who Married someone in the USA some years ago. They got married here, because she doesn't have a U.S. Visa. They did it correctly.  After approximately 3 years of "marriage" (him there and her here) they got a Divorce. They could not see any progress with regard to her getting a Visa so she could join him in the USA. 

My wife has a friend who has a DD who got engaged to someone in the USA in 2019.  We suggested that he apply for a "Fiancee" visa for her, which is faster and less expensive than a Marriage Visa, because of what happened to the friend or cousin of DIL and her husband.

There are NO guarantees...

ETA: In the OP you mentioned "Green Card".  If he had a "Green Card, he would be an "LPR" (Legal Permanent Resident) and that would give him many advantages. But he doesn't have a "Green Card" and I don't see a path for him getting a "Green Card" from what you wrote.    He may need to voluntarily deport and if he does that, there would probably be a ten (?) year ban on him going to the USA.  Not a great "solution" for them...

Edited August 29, 2020 by Lanny
add ETA

[Guest]

Yes, I have experience with this by way of someone close to me. I was very worried about it early on, and then re-worried (is that a word?) when certain political changes happened. At one point, I signed an Affidavit to certify that he was a good, upstanding person, he was legally married and had a child in the US, and that it would create a hardship if he were deported. He was able to get legal residency. 

In short, it is not my favorite relationship complexity and I was concerned about the people involved. At one point, he had to return to the place of birth and I was seriously afraid with the current administration he might get stuck there and not be able to return. So, scary, yes, and worse under some administrations than under others, but survivable. 

[G5052]

Yes, a good friend has been here for years and is undocumented. She married a citizen several years ago, and they got a lawyer and just had their interview. She debated for a long time, but decided that making it legal was important to her. The lawyer was very encouraging because they dated for several years and are financially in a good place. She's in her late 50's. 

[Laura Corin]

I wish you luck. My experience  as a fully-documented foreigner who married an American was that my background and nationality were explicitly stated as an advantage in getting through the process. The official said at the interview, 'You have a perfectly good passport already.'

[Pam in CT]

12 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

This man needs to speak with a lawyer. Many places have free or low cost legal aid, and this is precisely the sort of situation they're supposed to help with.

This.

IANAL.

If he's 28 now and was brought in at age 5, he would be eligible for DACA; but if he hasn't already gotten DACA status, at the moment new applications are not being accepted for approval (so initiating the formal process now would at the moment incur certainty of exposure and no prospect of approval). And in some jurisdictions, there have been instances where people who do have DACA status have been taken into ICE custody when they've appeared for scheduled court appearances to renew their status as required under the program.  

The legal framework of various suits and appeals under way is evolving week to week and on some issues varies by jurisdictions.  So it is indeed complicated and he needs good guidance.  Here is a place to start in finding appropriate counsel.

 

[Janeway]

My brother married someone who was here illegally. Her parents were here illegally and never even learned English. Yet, she and her kids all went to public school and she even collected welfare prior to marrying my brother. No one ever even talked to her about being deported. It is really not the issue the news makes it out to be. I would not worry about the relationship and let things go. Maybe it is just the area I live in, but we have a large portion of our school district from illegal immigrants. It is not a big deal. A lot of them get free lunches and everything. Also, if they are here, they are still considered a resident even if they are not a citizen or on a green card or Visa or anything.

[JanetC]

It takes a lot of time/money/lawyers to get through our immigration system, even in normal times. These are not normal times. They are deliberately making it as hard as possible for people to get through the system. Even people approved for green cards right now can't get them because the Department of Homeland Security is not printing them.

This person should not get married or mingle financial accounts/obligations without a clear idea of the risks/costs.

 

[kristin0713]

One of DH's best friends came here on a short term visa and never went back to his home country. This was around 2000 or so.  His story is a very complicated one. He ended up marrying an American in 2008.  The process was not too bad and I don't really remember the details but I can find out if it would be helpful.  At some point after they got married (I don't remember how many years) he did get his citizenship.  He was not afraid of being deported after they got married.  

[vmsurbat1]

Please.  I'm very happy for people who've married people without proper documentation and had successful outcomes.  But, don't base your decision on that.  I personally know people who got married, had three kids, and the wife (the foreigner) had to leave the country for 3 whole years before they would let her back.  I know people who got married (even with proper documentation) and then went overseas to visit family, the husband wasn't allowed back in for a year.  And these were highly educated, post-grad degree people.  Why?  Because some small detail of his paperwork/marriage visa wasn't in order... 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, kristin0713 said:

One of DH's best friends came here on a short term visa and never went back to his home country. This was around 2000 or so.  His story is a very complicated one. He ended up marrying an American in 2008.  The process was not too bad and I don't really remember the details but I can find out if it would be helpful.  At some point after they got married (I don't remember how many years) he did get his citizenship.  He was not afraid of being deported after they got married.  

We had a friend who was here for grad school and overstayed her visa. When she later wanted to marry a US citizen, they had to spend lots of money on lawyers to avoid her having to go back to her home country first for ten years. This was back in the 1990s.
 

I also think we are in very different times than in 2008. I don’t think being married to an American would right now necessarily completely protect someone from deportation due to legal status. I recently listened to a “Death, Sex, and Money” podcast about this very issue. And the person in the story had DACA and was married to a US citizen.

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Janeway said:

My brother married someone who was here illegally. Her parents were here illegally and never even learned English. Yet, she and her kids all went to public school and she even collected welfare prior to marrying my brother. No one ever even talked to her about being deported. It is really not the issue the news makes it out to be. I would not worry about the relationship and let things go. Maybe it is just the area I live in, but we have a large portion of our school district from illegal immigrants. It is not a big deal. A lot of them get free lunches and everything. Also, if they are here, they are still considered a resident even if they are not a citizen or on a green card or Visa or anything.

I think you are conflating several different immigration issues here. You might want to read about the US Supreme Court Case, Plyer vs Doe (1982), to understand access to our public schools.

And in the current political climate, I think it would be very foolhardy not to worry about this if one was contemplating marriage, and especially if considering starting a family together.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Frances

[SKL]

Agreeing with hiring an immigration attorney.  My first question would be whether or not DACA is still an option.

If DACA isn't an option, then I wonder if going to his home country and starting the process from there (as a fiance) would be the easiest way.  Of course the timing is not ideal in the middle of a pandemic, but eventually that may be the path to take.

Although we hear the horror stories about immigration, there are millions of individuals who have come here illegally and have not been deported despite the government being fully aware of their location and status.  An experienced attorney would know what the deportation risk triggers are and how to mitigate them while getting married.

[J-rap]

I agree with speaking with an immigration attorney.  Often you can have the first consult for free, and then you can get a better feel for it.  As others have said, even marrying someone who is here legally on a green card is complicated.  My dd did that.  We ended up hiring an immigration attorney, and was that ever a relief.  It took about two years, and probably cost around $3,000.  I think their situation was pretty straight forward though.  

[Janeway]

7 hours ago, Frances said:

I think you are conflating several different immigration issues here. You might want to read about the US Supreme Court Case, Plyer vs Doe (1982), to understand access to our public schools.

And in the current political climate, I think it would be very foolhardy not to worry about this if one was contemplating marriage, and especially if considering starting a family together.

In this political environment, the government is even more afraid to take action against people who are here illegally. Basically, unless someone breaks the law, they are not deported. Even if they do break a law, most places will not consider deporting them. A hearing is required before any sort of deportation. Maybe it is just where I currently live, but immigration status is not much of an issue here. Although, I do feel that it is doing the right thing to get things in order. But no one fears being deported where I live. It is just a non-issue. It might be something that yellow journalism likes to pretend is an issue, but it really is not.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Janeway

[Frances]

22 minutes ago, Janeway said:

In this political environment, the government is even more afraid to take action against people who are here illegally. Basically, unless someone breaks the law, they are not deported. Even if they do break a law, most places will not consider deporting them. A hearing is required before any sort of deportation. Maybe it is just where I currently live, but immigration status is not much of an issue here. Although, I do feel that it is doing the right thing to get things in order. But no one fears being deported where I live. It is just a non-issue. It might be something that yellow journalism likes to pretend is an issue, but it really is not.

You are very wrong about what is currently happening in regards to deportation and you are also wrong that a hearing is always required before deportation. You might want to read and/or watch a wider array of sources and not try to speak for everyone where you live. How in the world would you, a US citizen, possibly know that “ ... no one fears being deported where I live.”

[Terabith]

3 hours ago, Janeway said:

In this political environment, the government is even more afraid to take action against people who are here illegally. Basically, unless someone breaks the law, they are not deported. Even if they do break a law, most places will not consider deporting them. A hearing is required before any sort of deportation. Maybe it is just where I currently live, but immigration status is not much of an issue here. Although, I do feel that it is doing the right thing to get things in order. But no one fears being deported where I live. It is just a non-issue. It might be something that yellow journalism likes to pretend is an issue, but it really is not.

No.  You are absolutely, 100% wrong about this.  I work with refugees, and I have friends who are legal immigrants.  Even the most simple, straightforward immigration is a nightmare, and in the current climate, people are TERRIFIED.  And they should be.  

[Sk8ermaiden]

I live in Texas and people are freaking terrified of being deported. 🤨 Heck, my husband worked with a professional engineer with a spotless past who was here under DACA and he was very scared because he was told (by the people at immigration) that he would not be renewed and would likely be deported. 

If there is a Catholic Charities where they are, they could look into them. Where I am, they have volunteer lawyers who help with situations like this. 

[Frances]

17 minutes ago, Terabith said:

No.  You are absolutely, 100% wrong about this.  I work with refugees, and I have friends who are legal immigrants.  Even the most simple, straightforward immigration is a nightmare, and in the current climate, people are TERRIFIED.  And they should be.  

I absolutely agree. It’s frightening to me that there are so many people in the US confidently living in post-fact bubbles. It literally makes me feel hopeless about the future of our country. How do we change this?

[Corraleno]

14 hours ago, Janeway said:

In this political environment, the government is even more afraid to take action against people who are here illegally. Basically, unless someone breaks the law, they are not deported. Even if they do break a law, most places will not consider deporting them. A hearing is required before any sort of deportation. Maybe it is just where I currently live, but immigration status is not much of an issue here. Although, I do feel that it is doing the right thing to get things in order. But no one fears being deported where I live. It is just a non-issue. It might be something that yellow journalism likes to pretend is an issue, but it really is not.

This is propaganda and it's 100% false. Read this article about a Trump supporter whose husband was deported — a 43 year old man who had been in the US for two decades, with an American wife, three American children, a successful business, and a clean record. ICE arrested him and purposely moved him from state to state to make it more difficult for his lawyers to try to block his deportation, and then they literally dumped him over the Mexican border in the middle of the night while motions filed by his lawyers were pending. The wife said she believed Trump when he said that only criminals would be deported, and she never expected that people like her husband would be targeted. There are MANY such stories. An Illinois mother of 5 who had been in the US for 18 years was separated from her family and deported. The mother of an Army officer who had been in the country for 31 years was deported when she went to the ICE office to discuss her case — they literally put her in a van and drove her over the border without even time to say goodbye to her family. A 42 year old mother of 4, including an epileptic toddler, was arrested in Ohio and deported to Mexico, where she fears for her safety since her father and brother were kidnapped and her mother was extorted. How does destroying families like this make America safer? It's just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. The current administration is doing everything possible to end DACA, and they have already ended the Temporary Protected Status for hundreds of thousands of other immigrants. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Corraleno

[Terabith]

10 hours ago, Corraleno said:

This is propaganda. Read this article about a Trump supporter whose husband was deported — a 43 year old man who had been in the US for two decades, with an American wife, three American children, a successful business, and a clean record. ICE arrested him and purposely moved him from state to state to make it more difficult for his lawyers to try to block his deportation, and then they literally dumped him over the Mexican border in the middle of the night while motions filed by his lawyers were pending. The wife said she believed Trump when he said that only criminals would be deported, and she never expected that people like her husband would be targeted. There are MANY such stories. An Illinois mother of 5 who had been in the US for 18 years was separated from her family and deported. The mother of an Army officer who had been in the country for 31 years was deported when she went to the ICE office to discuss her case — they literally put her in a van and drove her over the border without even time to say goodbye to her family. A 42 year old mother of 4, including an epileptic toddler, was arrested in Ohio and deported to Mexico, where she fears for her safety since her father and brother were kidnapped and her mother was extorted. How does destroying families like this make America safer? It's just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. The current administration is doing everything possible to end DACA, and they have already ended the Temporary Protected Status for hundreds of thousands of other immigrants. 

Not to mention that they are trying to make it impossible to claim asylum, which is flat out illegal.  They literally are sitting around thinking up the cruelest things they possibly can do and implementing them.  It is straight up, unadulterated EVIL.  

[Tanaqui]

18 hours ago, Janeway said:

In this political environment, the government is even more afraid to take action against people who are here illegally. Basically, unless someone breaks the law, they are not deported. Even if they do break a law, most places will not consider deporting them. A hearing is required before any sort of deportation. Maybe it is just where I currently live, but immigration status is not much of an issue here. Although, I do feel that it is doing the right thing to get things in order. But no one fears being deported where I live. It is just a non-issue. It might be something that yellow journalism likes to pretend is an issue, but it really is not.

 

What the heck are you smoking? Nothing you said there is even a little bit honest.

 

[Katy]

I follow an immigration attorney (and pastor) who posts things on Facebook almost daily about horrifying things ICE does.  It is not true that undocumented people anywhere don't fear deportation unless they are criminals.

[PrairieSong]

They definitely need to speak to an immigration attorney! Our DIL is from Mexico and was never undocumented. She always had a visa and now a green card. They still sought the advice of an attorney. DIL has a social security number and a driver's license, and has always been very careful (for example, not practicing driving without her instructional permit) so that they would not have a reason to deport her.

Her mother and sister were driving here from Mexico a couple years ago for granddaughter's birthday. They were stopped and harassed by the police in Texas but could never get an answer as to why. A couple more police cars showed up. DIL's sister was questioned (mother doesn't speak English). Where are you going and why? When she explained her sister married a U.S. guy and they were going to celebrate her niece's birthday, the cop got snarky. "Oh, she married him for his money." What??? Their car was searched, suitcases emptied, etc. Later the mother wondered if they were looking for someone with a similar car, but that is easily verifiable through license plates and personal ID. They had travel visas and passports. Everything was in order. They weren't stopped for speeding. Maybe some cops just like to stop cars with Mexican plates. No idea, but it was very odd. Because of the current climate regarding immigrants (cough) DIL wants to begin the citizenship process.

So please tell your friends to seek out an immigration attorney!!