Squares and Cubes: Online Math Classes

[SeaConquest]

A new to me resource for the budding mathematicians:

http://squaresandcubes.com/

[Cake and Pi]

This looks very cool. I wish they were a bit more transparent about pricing, though.

[seaben]

The pot shots at "problem solving communities" are off putting to me. 

[EKS]

I don't suppose they'd allow a curious adult who is thinking about getting a second bachelor's degree in math into their classes...

[kirstenhill]

19 hours ago, Cake and Pi said:

This looks very cool. I wish they were a bit more transparent about pricing, though.

Ditto.  My 13 year old would absolutely love some of these topics.  He watched this week's 3Blue1Brown video where Grant talks about Group Theory and DS was just saying, "Oh, I wish I could study group theory now...this is so interesting!".  😁

[kirstenhill]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Group theory is cool, and basically starts from the ground up. Just buy him a college text!

Do you recommend any in particular?

 

 

[8filltheheart]

My honest impression is that for 2 men with backgrounds in computer programming, they have created a visually unappealing site. I suppose they might have felt the type font and the elementary design a good visual for highlighting embracing  simplicity and their background in coding, but to me it presents like thrown together in a few minutes without effort.

Unlike the majority posting, I do agree with some of their digs, though. My ds was completely turned off of pursuing math as a future goal bc of the competitive atmosphere in problem-solving classes and camps geared toward advanced children. It is why in 8th grade he made the decision to focus on physics, and math shifted from his primary love to a utility. Not all strong math students are interested in competitions, yet that is the general atmosphere in the math world for children.

Edited August 22, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart

[EKS]

2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Unlike the majority posting, I do agree with some of their digs, though. My ds was completely turned off of pursuing math as a future goal bc of the competitive atmosphere in problem-solving classes and camps geared toward advanced children. It is why in 8th grade he made the decision to focus on physics, and math shifted from his primary love to a utility. Not all strong math students are interested in competitions, yet that is the general atmosphere in the math world for children.

I agree completely.

My older son refused to get involved at all once he found out that he'd have to work under timed conditions.  The younger one participated on a few different math teams, but then decided that it wasn't for him--even though his teams won.  They both would have been well suited to a more exploratory, collaborative approach to math enrichment.

I will say that the same problem exists for engineering-focused kids.  At least around here, all of the enrichment activities are focused on preparing for competitions (FIRST Lego League, FIRST, etc.).  There used to be a robotics club that was just that--a bunch of teens building robots and a mentor for three hours each Saturday.  It was part social club, part building club, part electronics club, part coding club.  It was amazing.  But the mentor died many years ago, and the opportunities shifted.  My older son was able to get on the tail end of it, and it changed his life.  

Edited August 22, 2020 by EKS

[SeaConquest]

Sorry, just getting back to this thread. I emailed them and the classes are $1200 for 12 weeks. I almost fell out of my seat. Yikes! I was interested up until that point.

I agree about the timed competition issue and also AoPS Academy doesn't even seem to know what to do with 2e kids. Or they just don't care. Just giving Sacha extra time on his math tests would have made a massive difference for him, and it isn't like his teacher (the head of our local academy, and the same teacher he had for 3 years) wasn't aware of his ADHD and didn't see the huge disparity between his untimed performance on homework (almost all blue with a couple of greens over the whole year) vs his performance on exams (literally had some exams in the red and orange due to time pressure and dysgraphic issues). After 3 years with the Academy, we finally gave up. There was zero attempt to accommodate him, so we switched to the regular AoPS Online classes where he no longer has to deal with the time pressure or handwriting/growth delay problems. 

 

[8filltheheart]

13 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Sorry, just getting back to this thread. I emailed them and the classes are $1200 for 12 weeks. I almost fell out of my seat. Yikes! I was interested up until that point.

I agree about the timed competition issue and also AoPS Academy doesn't even seem to know what to do with 2e kids. Or they just don't care. Just giving Sacha extra time on his math tests would have made a massive difference for him, and it isn't like his teacher (the head of our local academy, and the same teacher he had for 3 years) wasn't aware of his ADHD and didn't see the huge disparity between his untimed performance on homework (almost all blue with a couple of greens over the whole year) vs his performance on exams (literally had some exams in the red and orange due to time pressure and dysgraphic issues). After 3 years with the Academy, we finally gave up. There was zero attempt to accommodate him, so we switched to the regular AoPS Online classes where he no longer has to deal with the time pressure or handwriting/growth delay problems. 

 

I hope DE works out for him.

$1200 for 12 weeks.  Jeepers.  THat is ridiculous.  Those are private tutoring rates, not class rates.  I haven't even paid that for my kids' college classes.  

[SeaConquest]

22 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I hope DE works out for him.

$1200 for 12 weeks.  Jeepers.  THat is ridiculous.  Those are private tutoring rates, not class rates.  I haven't even paid that for my kids' college classes.  

 

I know. Insane prices.

We followed the advice to only take one class the first semester, and to make it one in a high-interest area, so he went with the aviation class. He emailed his professor beforehand, so she wouldn't be shocked when a little kid walked in, and she has been super supportive. Since the lecture portion is an online format, it's something to which he's already very accustomed and the lab portion is flying simulators, so he is having a blast! That way, he could take the first semester to get used to being in college, managing the workload, get settled with the Disability Services Office (they are working with his 504 plan), etc., and instead of enrolling in Gen Chem next semester, he decided to ease into it with the Intro to Gen Chem class, which is the pre-req. No need to rush. He's also 1/3 of the way through AP Computer Science with CTY, which I wasn't sure about, but he really likes it and is doing well. It is a self-paced class, and he is on track to finish before New Year's, so he wants to take the next Java class through DE in the Spring. I don't think he will bother with the AP test. Too much pressure. You know I've been himming and hawwing about whether this was the right path, and I'm still nervous, so thanks! (Also, they saved Space Camp, and they just emailed him the other day to select his date for next summer!) 

Edited August 22, 2020 by SeaConquest

[seaben]

Just for comparison Awesome math over the summer was priced at $750  for a 3 weeks (Mon-Sat) of a course with 90 minutes per day + an online problem solving session.  I'm not familiar with AoPS academy but I will say that it seems likely that the number of kids who are motivated by competitions to spend time  (or spend enough money to support a business like this one)  working on math outside school is much greater than the number of kids who are not motivated that way. So from a pragmatic standpoint it makes sense to focus on them first if you're trying to make a go at things.  Leading a middle school aged math circle, makes me believe that's a good model for wider out reach but even then the pool of kids who want to participate tilts towards the same competitive group.  And there are huge difficulties with scaling any extra-curricular model for math enrichment.

 

[mathnerd]

6 hours ago, seaben said:

Leading a middle school aged math circle, makes me believe that's a good model for wider out reach but even then the pool of kids who want to participate tilts towards the same competitive group.

 

You are on the right track here. We have been part of both university run math circles and private circles for years and it is an excellent model for kids uninterested in math competitions or those that have 2E issues which make problem solving in timed and stressful environments impossible. Our circles always had an optional math competition element to it with prizes for those who participate, but, mostly the classes are instructor led talks and group problem solving in esoteric math topics.

Edited August 23, 2020 by mathnerd

[SeaConquest]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:51 PM, mathnerd said:

You are on the right track here. We have been part of both university run math circles and private circles for years and it is an excellent model for kids uninterested in math competitions or those that have 2E issues which make problem solving in timed and stressful environments impossible. Our circles always had an optional math competition element to it with prizes for those who participate, but, mostly the classes are instructor led talks and group problem solving in esoteric math topics.

 

I wish ours was like that. We've discussed it before here, but the application is pretty intimidating and it seemed to make it pretty clear that it was heavily competition focused. At least, that's how they make it sound on the website. I've posted quotes from it before here, which is why we didn't bother to apply with Sacha's "math resume." So, if that is not actually the case, they are likely turning off other kids like mine who are too intimidated by those timed competitions to participate. I mean, he does the AMCs each year, but he sucks at them (in part) because they're timed and make no accommodations for 2e kids. So, he knows that he has no hope of ever being some sort of math champion because of the speed element. And there is no way that he would participate in MATHCOUNTS; he would feel like he was letting down other people being the pokey little pony.

[SanDiegoMom]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:01 PM, square_25 said:

For the record, I don't know if it helps, but the higher level math competitions are much less time-constrained. 

I say this as someone who was always heavily psyched by timing. I can DO it, but I'm not excellent at it. But the IMO is 3 questions for 4.5 hours each day, and so is the USAMO. The speed becomes much less key for the olympiad-style contests. 

Also, have you seen the USA Math Talent Search? It's untimed: 

https://www.usamts.org

yeah, we have barely even looked at many of the tests even while my son has continued to be very math -focused.  He's done a couple of AMC 8 tests only, and just for the experience.   I kind of look at it a little like how he was a bad fit in math at public school -- they really pushed speed and the kids who were fast were seen as the mathy ones.  We don't buy into that and that's ok.  If it means he doesn't get into the math competition groups, that's ok too.  But it does make it sad when there aren't any math circles that are more exploratory.  There was one in VA but it was an hour drive on a Sunday, and giving up a Sunday for a 3 hour total event including driving just wasn't high on his list of fun things to do.