Derek Owens Physics

[creekster519]

My son took Physics 1 Honors at Wilson Hill Academy in 9th grade using Accelerated Studies in Physics and Chemistry by John Mays.  Is Derek Owens Physics more advanced or will it be a review?  Mathwise, he is taking Precalculus dual enrollment this semester so I don't think he can take a calculus based physics class yet. 

[EKS]

Based on the description of the Mays book, it looks as though it is conceptual.  The DO course is a traditional high school level algebra-based physics course, so it will be more advanced in that it doesn't skimp on the math.  Whether or not having both classes on the transcript is appropriate, I can't say.

[cintinative]

The Derek Owens course is reported to be based on Giancoli, which is an algebra-based physics.

Corrected comment on Novare.  They DO follow physics-first but the Introductory Physics does use some algebra. From their website: "Students should be enrolled in concurrent algebra I to use this book, which is standard track mathematics for 9th grade. We make our exercises challenging, requiring students to utilize multiple concepts and skills to arrive at an answer, but nothing higher than basic algebra is required for this text. This book does not use trigonometry; for our advanced physics text, please see our other book, Physics: Modeling Nature."

I can't answer whether this would count as a more advanced physics. 

@regentrude Could you possibly help with this question?

 

OP, there was recently a question about Saxon versus Derek Owens. I would check out that thread as well. (Saxon was not recommended).

 

ETA: On WHA site, the second physics in their schedule is AP Physics, using these texts:

College Physics for AP®Courses* OpenStax* Hardcover - 9781947172173
Digital - 9781938168932, Gregg Wolfe et al.

Physics: Modeling Nature, Novare Science & Math, 9780986352904, John D. Mays

Physics: Modeling Nature: Solutions Manual, Novare Science &  Math 987-0-9863529-4-2, John D. Mays

The Student Lab Report Handbook Novare Science & Math, 9780615309514 or 978-
0988322875, John D. Mays

Edited August 16, 2020 by cintinative

[cintinative]

This is the other thread I mentioned:  

 

[creekster519]

Thank you for the link.  The following was a quote from @regentrude in that thread so I think taking another physics course would be a good idea before he goes to college.  His major will be Computer Science.  Just wanted to make sure Derek Owens would be a good one.

"In my experience, taking an algebra based physics class first is a valuable preparation for a calc based physics course at college.

The completion of calculus is necessary, but really does not play such an important role. The students who struggle in calc based physics because of math typically do so because their algebra is not solid.

It is possible to take a calc based physics course at college as the first ever physics class; about 20% of my students do. However, these courses are fast paced with a high work load, and a student with prior physics exposure will feel more comfortable and be better positioned to succeed."

[regentrude]

49 minutes ago, cintinative said:

The Novare text you mentioned *should* be conceptual since Novare follows the physics-first approach.  

I am not familiar with this program, but don't understand the conclusion that a physics first approach would require a conceptual physics course. We did physics first in our homeschool and started with algebra based College physics (totally possible for a student who does not spend three years in a holding pattern repeating prealgebra over and over again in grades 6 through 8).. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by regentrude

[cintinative]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I am not familiar with this program, but don't understand the conclusion that a physics first approach would require a conceptual physics course. We did physics first in our homeschool and started with algebra based College physics (totally possible for a student who does not spend three years in a holding pattern repeating prealgebra over and over again in grades 6 through 8).. 

 

You are correct. I apologize. I inserted this text above for the OP's benefit which is for the Introductory Physics text.  "Students should be enrolled in concurrent algebra I to use this book, which is standard track mathematics for 9th grade. We make our exercises challenging, requiring students to utilize multiple concepts and skills to arrive at an answer, but nothing higher than basic algebra is required for this text. This book does not use trigonometry; for our advanced physics text, please see our other book, Physics: Modeling Nature."

[creekster519]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I am not familiar with this program, but don't understand the conclusion that a physics first approach would require a conceptual physics course. We did physics first in our homeschool and started with algebra based College physics (totally possible for a student who does not spend three years in a holding pattern repeating prealgebra over and over again in grades 6 through 8).. 

@regentrude In your opinion, should he take another physics class?  It seems like the first one was conceptual physics.

[regentrude]

26 minutes ago, creekster519 said:

@regentrude In your opinion, should he take another physics class?  It seems like the first one was conceptual physics.

No. If he had a solid conceptual physics class, I would not cover the same topics again with algebra only to have him repeat every single topic once more with calculus. That's a joy killer. If he is interested in physics, there are so much more physics that is not part of a standard course, that I would rather spend the time on topics not covered before.
 

I would consider the May’s book an algebra based physics-first textbook.  There is quite a bit of math in there as well as some introductory chapters on chemistry.  The student then goes into their advanced chemistry textbook.  I think it would significantly overlap the content in the Derek Owens course.

[regentrude]

32 minutes ago, square_25 said:

OK, I love hearing from people about their area of specialty, and I know physics is yours... what fun topics would you cover with a kid after doing the standard course? (My older kiddo is only 8, but will probably be done with algebra in a year or two, and then I expect we'll do some relatively serious science. I'm science-minded, but I have pretty big gaps, so I can't just make it up like I do math.) 

particle physics, quantum physics, optics

cosmology, astrophysics

thermodynamics

chaos and nonlinear systems 

[EKS]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

I am not familiar with this program, but don't understand the conclusion that a physics first approach would require a conceptual physics course. 

"Physics first" assumes physics in ninth grade.  Since you can't assume that all students will have finished Algebra 1, it requires only a very basic knowledge of algebra and no trig.  DO's course assumes that the student has completed DO's Algebra 1 course (which is more extensive than Common Core Algebra 1) and makes extensive use of trig (which DO teaches as needed).

If the May book uses trig, then it may be comparable to the DO course.

[creekster519]

21 minutes ago, EKS said:

"Physics first" assumes physics in ninth grade.  Since you can't assume that all students will have finished Algebra 1, it requires only a very basic knowledge of algebra and no trig.  DO's course assumes that the student has completed DO's Algebra 1 course (which is more extensive than Common Core Algebra 1) and makes extensive use of trig (which DO teaches as needed).

If the May book uses trig, then it may be comparable to the DO course.

I don't think the Mays book uses trig because he had only had Algebra 1 when he took it.  He needs a 4th science.  Just need to figure out what.  He plans to major in Computer Science.  He will have to take a calculus based physics his first year of college so like regentrude said, another algebra physics might be overkill.  What are some other options for a fourth year of science that he could take as an online class?

[EKS]

1 hour ago, creekster519 said:

What are some other options for a fourth year of science that he could take as an online class?

My son did astronomy.  We used the Understanding the Universe lectures from the Teaching Company, along with the Filippenko book.

[8filltheheart]

13 hours ago, creekster519 said:

 What are some other options for a fourth year of science that he could take as an online class?

My kids have taken astronomy (one course was similar to what EKS posted above), geology, an introduction to meteorology, ecological biodiversity (studied multiple different biomes), anatomy and physiology