Spelling, to correct or not to correct? That is the question.

[Penny_P]

A brief summary- my oldest I homeschooled until about 9th grade. I suspect some dyslexic issues although never officially diagnosed. Failed at AAS and still spells terribly in college. We discovered Apples and Pears (thanks WTM boards!) but not until middle school.

I am homeschooling my 3 youngest this year.... My 8 year old has similar issues- reads about 2nd grade now (mind we were going to have her repeat 2nd before homeschooling), about 80% reversals of b/d, and spelling issues. She is having zoom OT sessions for handwriting. She's reading through Little House with some errors, but better than I expected. Her spelling is .... beyond terrible. She spells about 2/3 of her words wrong, even common sight words, and detests writing. We have started Apples and Pears level 1 over the summer and are about lesson 20. 

My question: On her non-spelling assignments, do I correct her spelling? I'm worried this would discourage her. At the same time I wonder if she's not trying? For example, her assignment was to describe Laura's horses: "sooft eyys, dlak fere, litoll". I've kept written assignments very simple, since I know she struggles, but she should do some writing, right? Maybe I'm not doing enough writing? Help. I don't want to nag her either, but it's painful to watch. 

Also, in trying to find answers, someone suggested card games from Spelling Success in another post. Thoughts? They look great, but $$$.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Penny_P

[Runningmom80]

I think it depends. 

I just took the Vowel Chart class from Rooted in Language, and they were saying that they correct if the word is going to be used in a paper multiple times (For ex, if the child is misspelling horse in. a paper about horses) BUT they said for a free-write they usually don't correct.

 

I know it's a fine line because you don't want to stifle the writing voice with spelling corrections, but at the same time, you don't want them getting the muscle memory of incorrect spelling. I struggled with this with my DD for a while. She's to the point now where she's missing less than half of the words she writes and has a thick skin (I think? lol) so I correct the misspellings. (If she made me a card or something I obviously don't correct!) I have her write our grocery lists and I do correct those. I may be evil. 

[kbutton]

Free writing--I don't correct.

Spelling--we correct immediately and use a spelling program that teaches this (Sequential Spelling).

Other school assignments or incidental writing--it depends on the purpose and the mood. Sometimes we have a good laugh at the spelling and just move on. 

My kids are a little older now (younger one is 12), and spelling is SO MUCH BETTER than it was. Really.

[8filltheheart]

On 8/15/2020 at 9:08 AM, Penny_P said:

A brief summary- my oldest I homeschooled until about 9th grade. I suspect some dyslexic issues although never officially diagnosed. Failed at AAS and still spells terribly in college. We discovered Apples and Pears (thanks WTM boards!) but not until middle school.

I am homeschooling my 3 youngest this year.... My 8 year old has similar issues- reads about 2nd grade now (mind we were going to have her repeat 2nd before homeschooling), about 80% reversals of b/d, and spelling issues. She is having zoom OT sessions for handwriting. She's reading through Little House with some errors, but better than I expected. Her spelling is .... beyond terrible. She spells about 2/3 of her words wrong, even common sight words, and detests writing. We have started Apples and Pears level 1 over the summer and are about lesson 20. 

My question: On her non-spelling assignments, do I correct her spelling? I'm worried this would discourage her. At the same time I wonder if she's not trying? For example, her assignment was to describe Laura's horses: "sooft eyys, dlak fere, litoll". I've kept written assignments very simple, since I know she struggles, but she should do some writing, right? Maybe I'm not doing enough writing? Help. I don't want to nag her either, but it's painful to watch. 

Also, in trying to find answers, someone suggested card games from Spelling Success in another post. Thoughts? They look great, but $$$.

First, if she is reading Little House books, the books in the series are on about a 4th grade reading level, so that is awesome.  I have had an 8 yr old who was still struggling with books just slightly more advanced than Frog and Toad.

FWIW, I don't have my dyslexic 2nd graders doing free writing.  I have them focus on copywork bc in 2nd grade, thinking to spell and thinking to write are too much at the same time.  They can focus on thinking to spell (as in a spelling lesson) or narrate and copy or copy to write b/c then the focus shifts away from having to decide what to write and how to spell it.

When they get older, I have them write their assignments with blank lines.  I completely separate out writing from spelling.  I simply circle the misspelled word and we work on writing the correct spelling above it, but with zero commentary about the misspelling until they are much older and I know they could have found the mistakes on their own.   

[8filltheheart]

17 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think with misspelling this bad, I'd probably at least ask her to sound out the words she wrote down, to check herself. That's a sort of first-stage check, but since she's not spelling things that could possibly sound right, that would also help work on sounding out. 

I disagree. I can see why she wrote what she did.  My kids could easily have written soft eyes, dark fur, and little in very similar fashion.  It isn't as simple as that couldn't possibly sound right.

[Terabith]

If you ever want this child to write independently at all, even 8 years down the line, do NOT force them to correct spelling on non-spelling assignments.  It will bite you in the butt big time.  It's too big and too overwhelming to ask.  

Honestly, I would not require any non-spelling writing besides math.  Any writing they did on their own, I would praise for content and ignore the spelling.  

It's definitely worth working on remediation, but it may not ever really resolve.  I'd also start teaching them to type, because spell check and word prediction software are going to be your best friend in a few years.  I'd also allow speech to text.  

[Runningmom80]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Interesting. Would they hear the difference between sooft and soft, sounded out properly? 

 

Dyslexics have phonological weakness. 

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Interesting. Would they hear the difference between sooft and soft, sounded out properly? 

Like I said in my OP, that dyslexics are struggling with far more than not simply being able to sound out the words. It isn't simply getting them to memorize phonetic rules and sounds. Dyslexics have phonological deficits.  I look at the spellings and I see logic to them based on my experience with teaching 3 dyslexic children, 2 of them severe dyslexics and 1 who had fewer issues with reading but just as severe spelling deficits.  There is absolutely NO way I would correct the spelling in a non-spelling lesson with an 8 yr old who is struggling so severely.  Self-esteem matters.  Encouraging them matters.  They already know they can't spell.

I would internalize what I observed and discuss the sounds and spelling later in a spelling lesson and not associate it with their writing (which I wouldn't have them doing anyway bc it reinforces incorrect spelling. They only writing I would have them doing is copywork.)   And, like I said, I see a lot of logic in what she has written.  It isn't totally random when you actually understand the struggles dyslexic children face (which I am assuming you don't completely understand.)

• sooft...If I had seen that in my kids' spelling, my thoughts would be that they know ou says /ah/ and were possibly thinking ou or that they may not be able to distinguish between oo and ah.  Hard to say without knowing the child.  My kids have had very specific sounds the could not hear.  For example, one cannot distinguish between i and e and spent his childhood spelling pincel instead of pencil or pellow instead of pillow, etc.
• Dlak....I see an understanding that /al/ go together to make a say aw.  She reversed them....not unusual with a dyslexic.  Hearing the /l/ vs.the /r/ is a phonetic deficit. 
• Eyys.....she remembered that she couldn't sound it out and knew it had an e and a y.  (I teach my kids that it makes a face with two eyes on each side of a nose/mouth.  It helps them remember.) 
• She knows that er says er. The silent e at the end is obviously wrong, but again, spelling to write is way too much vs. spelling to spell.  
• Littol is phonetically spelled.

OP, I would not panic or be full of despair.  My kids graduate from high school still struggling with spelling.  (One of mine wrote an important professional letter spelling carreer  and carrier. I burst out laughing when I proofread it for him.  I told him he was going to end up in the navy on a carrier. 🙂  He graduated from college with a 4.0 and is a 3rd yr grad student majoring in physics.   And he is the son I described as still struggling with simple readers at age 8.  At work, my ds who is a chemE (when he was in 8th grade he scored in the 3rd% for spelling on the Stanford test but he scored in the 90s for everything else).....the dept has just learned not to ask him to keep notes for meetings or to be the person writing up on the dry erase board during a meeting.  Neither one of them has been impacted negatively in terms of their daily life.)  Just be encouraging and keep focusing on working on the skills.  You can get devices that she can speak into and it will display the word's spelling and she can learn to type.  Both of those will go a long way in the next couple of yrs.  But for now, focus on boosting her actual phonetic and simple spelling skills. A&P is the only spelling program that has helped improve my kids spelling.  (My 9th grader is still in A&P and I'm using it with my ds's 2 kids, not as severely dyslexic as their dad, but still struggling spellers.)

 

[8filltheheart]

17 minutes ago, square_25 said:

@Runningmom80 and @8FillTheHeart -- thank you for explaining! This is something I have literally zero experience with, so I didn't realize those might be simply sounds that sound the same to a dyslexic. That makes a ton of sense. I really appreciate the explanation. 

I'm glad you found the replies helpful. 

Please take this post kindly bc that is the intent, but why did you respond with advice to a mom who is obviously both upset and concerned when you  don't understand the disability and its impacts on the the child? 

[wendyroo]

My worst speller has suspected dysgraphia, and at the age of 9 still routinely misspells words like "up" and "my".

Most of his writing is done with his ABA therapist. 
- For spelling lessons, every misspelling is corrected immediately. 
- For misc. writing (a math short answer, adding something to his schedule, jotting notes in a graphic organizer) misspelling are not corrected...and if he wants them corrected he is in charge of asking Google or using a different strategy. 
- For writing (as in the skill of composition), we are more and more often using talk to text.  He works with his therapist to write something half way between an outline and a rough draft.  It highlights all the main points in the order he will discuss them and notes specific words and phrases he wants to use.  Then he uses talk to text to get it on paper.  Obviously, he then has to go in and edit, because talk to text is not that accurate, but it still eliminates most of the spelling issue and makes writing less stressful.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by wendyroo

[Penny_P]

Thank you for the responses. She used the Spaulding method at her classical charter last year and nothing seemed to transfer from the flash cards to her actual spelling. I am hoping that A&P sticks better. 
 

So, what I am hearing is most writing should be copywork and a talk to text device would be helpful for higher writing. Suggestions?
 

I had enrolled her in an “English” class with a local homeschool group for 1st-3rd grade as much for socialization as my desire to outsource some of my classes. Now I’m wondering if that’s a good idea. 🤔We were really just doing a Little House unit to fill the month until it starts. Although, I was planning to continue with spelling at home. 

[wendyroo]

14 minutes ago, Penny_P said:

So, what I am hearing is most writing should be copywork and a talk to text device would be helpful for higher writing. Suggestions?
 

We just use Google docs.  If you open a document and click on the Tools menu, one of the options is Voice Typing.  When you choose voice typing, a microphone button pops up allowing you to record yourself.  Click it to start recording and just talk what you want on the page.  It is going to try its hardest to type e.x.a.c.t.l.y what you say, so for best results I have my kids pause often to think about what they are going to say next (rather than hmm'ing and stuttering and adding lots of filler words like "well..." as they think on the fly).  You can add punctuation by saying period, comma, exclamation point and question mark when you want one.

[73349]

I've found computer-based typing programs like TTRS (or if you want a free one, Burning Cargo or Nitrotype) more helpful than any book, probably because of the instantaneous feedback.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren