# I need 4th grade help

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On 8/13/2020 at 12:42 PM, wendyroo said:

Plus, by fourth grade some concepts are becoming very unwieldy for physical manipulatives.  37 x 42 is very easy to draw via the area model, but pretty inconvenient to manipulate with beans.  My 7 year old is working in Math Mammoth 4 now, and he uses the abacus for simple multiplication because he is not rock solid on his facts yet.  But other than that, it's not like we are pulling out beads to model adding hundredths.

My daughter is a 4th grader this year and I was just wondering how you would do multiplication with manipulatives

(Dividing, OTOH, Ic an see some advantages to using beans or something)

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7 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

My daughter is a 4th grader this year and I was just wondering how you would do multiplication with manipulatives

(Dividing, OTOH, Ic an see some advantages to using beans or something)

When my son was 4 I taught him the concept of multiplication with a card game of concentration.

We used beans, lots and lots of beans, for teaching  place value.

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5 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

My daughter is a 4th grader this year and I was just wondering how you would do multiplication with manipulatives

(Dividing, OTOH, Ic an see some advantages to using beans or something)

When we start on long division, some of my kids have benefited from physical manipulatives when we are dealing with two digit dividends.  We even stretch that into numbers a bit over a hundred to see how it works with three digits.  Then it gets too unwieldy and we switch to a "story problem" model: 10 cookies in a roll, 10 rolls in a box, 10 boxes in a carton, 10 cartons in a truck, (10 trucks in a fleet if we need to).

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On 8/12/2020 at 2:11 PM, kristin0713 said:

If Christian is ok, I would go with CLE math.  It is so easy to implement and with lots of review, it will get him back on track.  It is affordable.

LA workbooks like Growing with Grammar and Soaring with Spelling are also very easy to implement and affordable.  Add a booklist for the library (if they would go regularly) and a notebook for free writing and that is a very affordable and solid LA plan.

Mystery Science -- I think they are still offering the free year.  The videos are engaging and the activities are super easy to implement.

For history, SOTW either read aloud or audio.

I think this is a great plan but with Teaching Textbooks for math as was mentioned in a subsequent post since he needs secular. I think easy to use would be optimal in this situation and these are all programs known for ease of use.

Edited by soror
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Steck Vaughn Spelling Linking Words to Meaning sold at Rainbow Resource is a nice colorful spelling curriculum, that also includes a little grammar and reading selections.

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On 8/14/2020 at 3:25 PM, ElizabethB said:

You did make me curious, though, and so I'm looking into it...there are often actually reasons and patterns for these type of things.

On 8/14/2020 at 3:26 PM, square_25 said:

But how many words are there with a th after anti, anyway??

The plot thickens!!  😄

Yesterday my son mispronounced antipathy.  He obviously tried to split off the anti-, but it follows the antithesis pattern.  Latin origin, four syllables, but no /th/ after the anti- in antipathy.

I went looking and antiphony follows that same pattern.  Which would make me think maybe antimony could as well.  It would seem natural enough to me as a fluent, literate English native to say an-tim-uh-ny with the stress on the second syllable...probably because I am more familiar with the word hegemony which I pronounced hedge-eh-moh-nee in my head when I read it as a teenager and then had to consciously self-correct when I learned it is actually heh-gem-oh-nee.  But, no, antimony is an--tih-moh-nee.

At this point I am feeling pretty confident that there is no definitive way for a child to know how to pronounce anithesis just from looking at it (even counting the syllables and knowing the language of origin).  There are two pronunciations that both could be completely logical and allowable in English...perhaps they are not equally probable, and a good reader can play the odds and have a good chance of guessing right, but there is no phonetically definitive way of knowing.  (And that applies to a fair number of longer, more advanced words.)

Edited by wendyroo
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1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

The plot thickens!!  😄

Yesterday my son mispronounced antipathy.  He obviously tried to split off the anti-, but it follows the antithesis pattern.  Latin origin, four syllables, but no /th/ after the anti- in antipathy.

I went looking and antiphony follows that same pattern.  Which would make me think maybe antimony could as well.  It would seem natural enough to me as a fluent, literate English native to say an-tim-uh-ny with the stress on the second syllable...probably because I am more familiar with the word hegemony which I pronounced hedge-eh-moh-nee in my head when I read it as a teenager and then had to consciously self-correct when I learned it is actually heh-gem-oh-nee.  But, no, antimony is an--tih-moh-nee.

At this point I am feeling pretty confident that there is no definitive way for a child to know how to pronounce anithesis just from looking at it (even counting the syllables and knowing the language of origin).  There are two pronunciations that both could be completely logical and allowable in English...perhaps they are not equally probable, and a good reader can play the odds and have a good chance of guessing right, but there is no phonetically definitive way of knowing.  (And that applies to a fair number of longer, more advanced words.)

YES.

English is not a very "regualar" language. I actually learned my grammar for ENglish better after taking Spanish in high school.

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15 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Oooh, I actually didn’t know antiphony has that emphasis! DH says it’s like symphony, lol.

Antimony is just like antibody, right? Emphasis on the first syllable. with the emphasis on the first syllable, like antibody?

Yep.

So we have one group:
antithesis, antipathy, antiphony, antilogy, antinomy...

And another group:
antibody, antimony, antithetic (note the 4 syllables and the /th/, but it is not pronounced like antithesis), and many more.

Pronouncing an unknown anti- word is easy if the second part is a word in and of itself: antivirus, antimissile, antihero. (Then again, thesis is a word...???)
But, it is more uncertain if the the second part is not a word: like "antimonyl"  If I ran across that in a chemistry journal, I would be split between an-tee-mon-el and an-tim-uh-nul.

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• 3 weeks later...

So my brother's school district started August 24.  On the 28th he sent my nephew to school.  Sorry I wasted everyone's time.  I should have expected this.  I asked him why he decided to send him to school and he said, 'I don't really need to build a case for why.'   Typical.

Insert emoji of smashing head on keyboard.

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On 8/22/2020 at 1:33 AM, wendyroo said:

Yep.

So we have one group:
antithesis, antipathy, antiphony, antilogy, antinomy...

And another group:
antibody, antimony, antithetic (note the 4 syllables and the /th/, but it is not pronounced like antithesis), and many more.

Pronouncing an unknown anti- word is easy if the second part is a word in and of itself: antivirus, antimissile, antihero. (Then again, thesis is a word...???)
But, it is more uncertain if the the second part is not a word: like "antimonyl"  If I ran across that in a chemistry journal, I would be split between an-tee-mon-el and an-tim-uh-nul.

Pretty sure we say antim ony. Antith Isis anti body.

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On 9/14/2020 at 7:03 AM, square_25 said:

I looked it up -- it's anti-mony, at least according to the dictionary I checked.

@OneThoughtMayHideAnother, your rule about words that come from Greek is the best rule I've heard in ages. It actually helps me remember a few words!!

I speak with a different accent though and it is not a word that is used often.  It is odd.

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Hey I’m not sure if you made decisions yet but homeschool buyers coop has 40pc off math mammoth right now.  This is not to bad for a homeschool math curriculum and very cost effective if that’s an issue.  It’s reasonably scripted and less parent intensive than Singapore though a bit more than a video program of course.

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• 5 weeks later...
On 9/11/2020 at 11:43 AM, Scarlett said:

So my brother's school district started August 24.  On the 28th he sent my nephew to school.  Sorry I wasted everyone's time.  I should have expected this.  I asked him why he decided to send him to school and he said, 'I don't really need to build a case for why.'   Typical.

Insert emoji of smashing head on keyboard.

The other day he told me he had let his son sleep in.  I said oh is he sick?  He said 'no. Just not really worried about sending him.  The entire public education system is about to go down completely.'  In which case I wondered but did not ask 'then why aren't you more concerned about getting a plan together to educate him yourself.'

I will never in a million years understand my brother's brain.

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