Wow, I thought what I posted was rather benign

[DawnM]

14 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Wasn’t that 97,000 kids in US in just the last two weeks of July as camps and schools and sports and private gatherings etc were getting going?   Or was it a cumulative number?

 

 

 

 

That I don't know. 

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

That I don't know. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/10/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/

 

“

More than 97,000 U.S. children tested positivefor the coronavirus in the last two weeks of July, according to data from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children’s Hospital Association. That number represents more than a quarter of the number of children diagnosed nationwide since March.

 

The jump in cases comes as children are entering close quarters for the first time in months as some schools reopen their doors to students. Many districts are operating remotely to start the school year, with some others using a hybrid plan that has students come in a few days a week to prevent crowding “

[Pen]

3 hours ago, OneThoughtMayHideAnother said:

You know, I took Pen's comment to be more along the lines of "Beware Isolated Demands for Rigor" rather than an argument on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine. (Not implying that anyone here particularly needs that reminder, it's just something I often think about in the context of online debates on various medical topics.)

 

I had not heard that phrase, and have not had a chance to read the article yet, but the feeling I get from the phrase is what I meant with my reply to Fuzzycat.   Initially I was just wanting to express thanks to and some empathy  with Dawn, not to derail her thread.  If I reply more after reading the article or about HCQ specifically, I’ll do so in the long Wuhan thread or a spin off thread. 

[Ausmumof3]

Hopefully not to derail the thread or be morbid but what is the usual lag time for death and serious illness?  The almost 100,000 cases in kids is awful but it’s probably a positive thing if so few have really become seriously ill from it.  However maybe those numbers aren’t coming through quite yet?

[Syllieann]

I remember reading that the lag was about ten days back in May or june.  That may have shifted a bit since then.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Syllieann

[Pen]

40 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Hopefully not to derail the thread or be morbid but what is the usual lag time for death and serious illness?  The almost 100,000 cases in kids is awful but it’s probably a positive thing if so few have really become seriously ill from it.  However maybe those numbers aren’t coming through quite yet?

 

I don’t think it has been long enough from late July to know for sure, but I don’t think that healthy kids at camp or starting school or sports activities will be having a high death rate. I would expect less than 0.1% cfr for mostly healthy kids during the summer (D levels tending better than in winter). 

Even when I run Georgia tech or other similar predictors for cases to be expected in gatherings or school openings of given sizes, when I calculate estimates for what might then be fatalities for a large public high school if open, no masks, I expect fatalities would be likely, but mostly among staff and parents, fewer kids.

Could be worse if CV19 and other factors like vaping come together though. 

[Garga]

6 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

I can when I get home.  I am currently at work and it won't let me access it.  You can google is:  Sam Laucks, Retired Surgeon on wearing masks

Oh, I kinda like what he wrote. Am tempted to share it on FB...but I know it’ll just cause me flack.

5 hours ago, TCB said:

Me either! The other thing that confuses me is that several friends have said  "we can't live in fear" when I've expressed concern about the pandemic, but then they post all these crazy conspiracies that they are terrified of and it seems like they are living in way greater fear than I am!

Yes! I’ve been noticing the same thing!  Apparently I’m over here living in fear because of a  virus “hoax”, while they’re over there living in fear that we will have a cashless society, “the dems” will usher in Venezuela, and we’ll have microchips implanted into us through the vaccine.  

They’re just as afraid as I am.  So, I’m not ashamed of my fear of contracting this disease.  (So there! 😜)

 

And yes, I am afraid. A reasonable, healthy fear.  

Once in a while, the air is dry at night and I’ll get a sore throat while I’m sleeping.  I find myself having dreams that I am sick with Covid (sore throat), but am at a party filled with people and I’m standing near them talking right in their faces and I’m thinking, “Stop, Garga! What are you DOING!  You’re infecting everyone!!!” Then I wake up and feel pretty relieved.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Garga

[Carol in Cal.]

3 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Truth.

Regardless of anyone's opinion of masks or the media or political figures or whatever else...

There's just no reason to be an @$$hole.  And so many people have become @$$holes with keyboards.  🙄 

so dumb

Seriously ready to order AWK tshirts to award.

[DawnM]

47 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

To OP:  Almost nothing is benign anymore.  :0(

 

#truth 🤨

[Jaybee]

10 hours ago, Garga said:

I’m getting close to leaving FB or just unfriending just about everyone. I can’t quite make myself leave and I’m not sure why. It’s sort of like I’m afraid to take my eyes of it.  Like, if there is a scary spider in the house and I need to catch it, I try to keep my eye on it so I know where it’s hiding while I go get a cup to catch it in.  That’s what FB feels like to me now: a scary spider that I need to keep an eye on so I’m ready for whatever craziness happens next in this world.  But that’s not really a healthy way to live.

I know what you mean. I don't like seeing all this stuff, and it is disappointing to see who believes what. But knowing that so-and-so is believing random posts on _____ without doing further research, or seeing the inconsistencies--well, it feels like it is being aware of possible danger spots. And really, I'm not just talking about one side of things either. When friends go off on either extreme it is concerning to me.

[Jaybee]

41 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Is there a specifically liberal version of COVID hoax talk? I actually kind of thought that about all the conspiracy-minded people were currently worried about the same things. 

I was thinking more generally, I suppose. I am not too fond of the all or nothing thinking that I'm seeing a lot these days. Either "we're all gonna' die" or "it's no big deal." I'm too tired tonight to follow it further now.

[Jaybee]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

I don't think we're all going to die by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm also willing to do a fair amount to not catch it 😉 . 

Yeah, I don't want it. I do wish the folks around here would lean a bit more in the "we're all gonna' die" direction so they'd take some precautions! I haven't seen that extreme IRL, just in some things I've read. OTOH, I'm seeing a whole lot of "it's no big deal" here.

[DawnM]

27 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

I was thinking more generally, I suppose. I am not too fond of the all or nothing thinking that I'm seeing a lot these days. Either "we're all gonna' die" or "it's no big deal." I'm too tired tonight to follow it further now.

 

Everyone these days takes everything to the extreme.  All or nothing......it is maddening.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Is there a specifically liberal version of COVID hoax talk? I actually kind of thought that about all the conspiracy-minded people were currently worried about the same things. 

 

I’ve heard both directions.  Not about masks though. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Pen

[MercyA]

7 hours ago, TCB said:

Me either! The other thing that confuses me is that several friends have said  "we can't live in fear" when I've expressed concern about the pandemic, but then they post all these crazy conspiracies that they are terrified of and it seems like they are living in way greater fear than I am!

And in my circles these are the same people who tend to carry...

There is no logic to it.

[vonfirmath]

3 hours ago, Garga said:

Oh, I kinda like what he wrote. Am tempted to share it on FB...but I know it’ll just cause me flack.

Yes! I’ve been noticing the same thing!  Apparently I’m over here living in fear because of a  virus “hoax”, while they’re over there living in fear that we will have a cashless society, “the dems” will usher in Venezuela, and we’ll have microchips implanted into us through the vaccine.  

 

I am actually a little apprehensive at the possibility of the vaccine being administered with a tattoo of some sort to "prove" you have it. I am choosing not to obsess over it until we're an awful lot closer to it coming to fruition.

 

[Syllieann]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Oh, man, a COVID nightmare... I haven't had one yet!! 

DH does tell me that after he had taught enough classes, instead of having the "student nightmare" of having forgotten to do all the homework or go to any exams, he'd have the "professor nightmare" of having forgotten to assign any homework for the whole semester... 😉 

I had a nightmare that I went to target and forgot my mask.  They made me stand along the wall in the back corner of the store where there is a customer service center along with two other unmasked people.  I was afraid they were going to think I was one of those anti-maskers, but I really just had forgotten it in the car.  No one would hear me out.  Then I woke up.

[vonfirmath]

18 minutes ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

If you sit in the middle of the road and try to be pragmatic everyone hates you from both sides, so I can’t say I recommend the approach 😎

There are some of us who appreciate the approach as we try to navigate our own way.

[happypamama]

FB is driving me nuts too. I can't leave it, though, because I need it for my volunteer job, but I also stick around to support my friends who are very worried about themselves or their loved ones.  I've made good use of the snooze or unfollow buttons, though, and that has decreased my stress levels a ton. 

[Pawz4me]

4 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

If you sit in the middle of the road and try to be pragmatic everyone hates you from both sides, so I can’t say I recommend the approach 😎

This is very true.

But I also know a handful of people who sincerely believe they're middle-of-the-road when they're really way off on one side or the other, but they don't seem able to recognize it. It's not a "well, I see the points of [this side] and the points of [that side]." It's "blah blah blah trying to sound high minded/just look at the facts," but what they say or post is really all very one sided carp when you dissect it. I suspect for many it's a game. They think they're smarter than they are and that they're fooling people. And probably they are fooling some. It's weird in lots of ways.

ETA: Or maybe they really have a deep need to think of themselves as pragmatic and not tribal? I really don't know, just musing. People are interesting and weird and wonderful. And aggravating lots of times. 😉 And I need more coffee. 😉 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Pawz4me

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Garga said:

I’m getting close to leaving FB or just unfriending just about everyone. I can’t quite make myself leave and I’m not sure why. It’s sort of like I’m afraid to take my eyes of it.  Like, if there is a scary spider in the house and I need to catch it, I try to keep my eye on it so I know where it’s hiding while I go get a cup to catch it in.  That’s what FB feels like to me now: a scary spider that I need to keep an eye on so I’m ready for whatever craziness happens next in this world.  But that’s not really a healthy way to live.

Oh, just rip it off like a band-aid! 😄

I do know what you mean about the spider in the room (great analogy, btw); it is why I have persisted, and it is even why I “kept” certain people unsnoozed. It was my window into what stories are floating around out there. Ultimately, for myself, I just had to stop. One week, when I looked at my screen stats, I had spent twenty hours arguing with AWKs. To no benefit. I started to think, “This is what I’m investing twenty hours a week into?” And that’s what made me say, I’m done. 

I did have a pang yesterday, though, because I learned from my husband about a friend whose father died a week ago. See, I would have known that if I had been on FB as usual. But I guess I have to trust in old-fashioned communications. At least I did find out, ultimately. 

PS. I also instituted time limits on this site so I don’t spend twenty additional hours here. 😑 Apparently I lack self-governance. 

[DawnM]

 

7 hours ago, happypamama said:

FB is driving me nuts too. I can't leave it, though, because I need it for my volunteer job, but I also stick around to support my friends who are very worried about themselves or their loved ones.  I've made good use of the snooze or unfollow buttons, though, and that has decreased my stress levels a ton. 

 

I have too.  Unfortunately, these people posted on my wall......so some of them had to go.  I rarely unfriend people.  

[Garga]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Oh, just rip it off like a band-aid! 😄

I do know what you mean about the spider in the room (great analogy, btw); it is why I have persisted, and it is even why I “kept” certain people unsnoozed. It was my window into what stories are floating around out there. Ultimately, for myself, I just had to stop. One week, when I looked at my screen stats, I had spent twenty hours arguing with AWKs. To no benefit. I started to think, “This is what I’m investing twenty hours a week into?” And that’s what made me say, I’m done. 

I did have a pang yesterday, though, because I learned from my husband about a friend whose father died a week ago. See, I would have known that if I had been on FB as usual. But I guess I have to trust in old-fashioned communications. At least I did find out, ultimately. 

PS. I also instituted time limits on this site so I don’t spend twenty additional hours here. 😑 Apparently I lack self-governance. 

I hear you.  

 

BTW: What’s an AWK?  That’s the second time I’ve seen it, but when I google it or look in the urban dictionary, I can’t find it.  

[wathe]

13 minutes ago, Garga said:

I hear you.  

 

BTW: What’s an AWK?  That’s the second time I’ve seen it, but when I google it or look in the urban dictionary, I can’t find it.  

A$$hole with keyboard

[ksr5377]

I have snoozed or unfollowed every single person in our co-op.  I love FB for being a free event planning site for many groups.  I love seeing pictures of my cousins' kids instead of just getting a Christmas card every year.  I miss the days when FB was only used for pictures and my aunt letting us all know that she went to the grocery store and ran into an old friend.

Edited August 11, 2020 by ksr5377

[GoodGrief]

12 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

 

ETA: Or maybe they really have a deep need to think of themselves as pragmatic and not tribal? I really don't know, just musing. People are interesting and weird and wonderful. And aggravating lots of times. 😉 And I need more coffee. 😉 

I think you are right on with the top line. :-) Everyone also needs to think that "science" is on their side.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, GoodGrief1 said:

I think you are right on with the top line. 🙂 Everyone also needs to think that "science" is on their side.

"Science" (with quotes) cannot be trusted. True science based on actual research and testing can be trusted, while acknowledging that this is still a new (from a scientific standpoint) virus and new information is coming in all the time.  True science will include the newest confirmed data as it comes in and is not stagnant.  And it is not partisan. 

[mom2scouts]

I've unfollowed everyone on Facebook except for the people I know don't make political or Covid conspiracy posts. I still have a few homeschool groups and the rest are nice posts. Unfortunately, I've noticed far fewer normal people making any Facebook posts at all and I don't use other social media. 

In other news, after being on the internet lately, I added Logic to our homeschool classes this year.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, could someone give me the basics about QAnon? I know I could google it, but I just finished reading Edward Snowden's book and now I'm afraid to search anything suspicious.😂

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, mom2scouts said:

Speaking of conspiracy theories, could someone give me the basics about QAnon? I know I could google it, but I just finished reading Edward Snowden's book and now I'm afraid to search anything suspicious.😂

The Atlantic has some good articles about QAnon. I think they are from May. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53692545

Quote

QAnon is a wide-ranging, unfounded conspiracy theory that President Trump is having to fight against a clandestine "deep state" network of political, business, media and entertainment elites, often involving satanic plots and child trafficking.

...

During the coronavirus pandemic, Q influencers have spread unfounded theories about coronavirus, calling it a "deep state" hoax and have promoted misinformation about face masks and vaccines.

https://theweek.com/articles/929707/qanon-goes-mainstream

The article from The Week has some of the catch phrases used by the group; those are what tipped me off that lots of people local to me are using materials that originated with followers of Q, though I didn't know what the commonality was at the time. I don't know if people local to me follow Q or follow people influenced by Q and don't know it (I think it's both in my area). Either way, it's very, very prevalent in my area for people to be posting and reposting this stuff. Most of the people I know doing this are committed Christians, and it's deeply disturbing to me that they've fallen for this stuff. This quote sounds like people around me, though not one single person has even mentioned Q to me by name:

Quote

Q's apocalyptic writings increasingly echo evangelical Christian beliefs about End Times, with Trump described as a messiah-like figure. "I feel like God led me to Q," said Laurie Shock, 57, of Ohio, who has spent up to six hours a day researching the theory.

I can't quickly find the article that talks about this, but apparently a lot of Q followers use Socratic discussion to talk to each other about the theories and to interpret the vague information that Q posts. Locally, many people passing along this information articles and memes are homeschoolers who are big into Socratic discussion. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/opinion/qanon-conspiracy-theory-arg.html  I disagree with some of the conclusions in this article, but it has some interesting observations, including the repetitive language. 

Quote

But specifically what caught my eye is that almost everyone who discovers QAnon uses a phrase like, “I did my research.” I kept hearing that and I couldn’t get it out of my head.

...

With QAnon you have this figure [Q] who has a stable identity and plants the seed frequently. But there’s just so many theories involved in the greater QAnon universe that are only tangentially related to the figure of Q. And you see this — QAnon has absorbed every other conspiracy theory. What would happen if Q stopped posting content forever? Would it die out? Maybe. But maybe not. And the reason it’s unclear is because so many people in the community have essentially built out their own theories and story lines and generated their own massive followings.

ETA: https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2020/08/04/qanon-what-to-know-online-conspiracy  Very interesting interviews

Edited August 12, 2020 by kbutton
added interviews

[DawnM]

On 8/11/2020 at 2:34 PM, Seasider too said:

Yeah posting stuff on my wall is crossing a line unless it’s a happy birthday message. I have my settings fixed so that nothing can show up without my approval. You could do that. But snoozing and unfriending and blocking are all acceptable options for people who come into my territory to stir up trouble. Keep it on your own wall, please!
 

Most common phrase I’m muttering while checking fb now: gosh, has it been 30 days already?

 

No, I have it set so they can't post directly on my wall.  They were replying to my post though, is there a way to circumvent that?

[Liz CA]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:04 AM, Pawz4me said:

But this too goes both (or all) ways. All too often I see someone trying to debate/defend a not-widely-held opinion, and then the person gets all huffy when a bunch of people push back. If I have a not popular opinion about something and two dozen people have a differing opinion then yeah, it's going to feel like I'm being bullied or people are piling on or whatever. But that comes with the territory of defending something that's not widely held. So be it.

 

Sure. If I state I believe something or support something that is not popular, several people will chime in - no doubt. But how they do this is the point. For instance, I would likely question a person who believes in flat earth about a few things but would really try not to come across as "You have got to be kidding. What imbecile could subscribe to this notion?" Or go into some lengthy diatribe with lots of thinly veiled snark (or not veiled at all) or launch ad hominem attacks.

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, WendyAndMilo said:

You can set each individual post so that only certain people see or don't see it.  Then even if they go to your wall, they can't see anything.  Of course, they will see a message saying "this content is unavailable to you" which might cause issues...

 

Apparently I have way more than I thought, people I haven't heard from in YEARS are coming out of the woodwork!  I honestly didn't know they were like that as they haven't posted on my wall for years.  So, that leaves me a bit vulnerable.  

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, WendyAndMilo said:

If you go into Settings --> Blocking --> Restricted list ....that might be useful for you...

 

Yeah, I will have to add as they come along.  I have a lot of friends on my list, and I seem to not fully know who the crazies are until I get comments.

[Shoeless]

My dad was boasting that everything in his neck of the woods was perfectly safe and there was practically zero risk of Covid, (not true, but also not engaging in that topic with him).  All I said to him was "Well, be careful and don't let your guard down".  Got my head bitten off for being a drama queen.  🙄  Ok, nevermind. Run with scissors. Lick the doorknobs. Use utterly no care whatsoever.  🙄

 

 

[frogger]

Honestly, I don't miss Facebook at all. Well, except when trying to clean out my house and sell stuff. Besides that though, I just kind of forgot it exists and my life is just as fulfilling.  

[Tenaj]

6 hours ago, MissLemon said:

My dad was boasting that everything in his neck of the woods was perfectly safe and there was practically zero risk of Covid, (not true, but also not engaging in that topic with him).  All I said to him was "Well, be careful and don't let your guard down".  Got my head bitten off for being a drama queen.  🙄  Ok, nevermind. Run with scissors. Lick the doorknobs. Use utterly no care whatsoever.  🙄

 

 

I had a eerily similar conversation with my father last week.  At least he laughed (and so did my mom) when I told him he should watch something besides Fox News.  Disclaimer:  I don't mind Fox but I also don't think that anyone should get all their news from one source 🙂

[mom2scouts]

8 hours ago, frogger said:

Honestly, I don't miss Facebook at all. Well, except when trying to clean out my house and sell stuff. Besides that though, I just kind of forgot it exists and my life is just as fulfilling.  

This is encouraging. I really want to dump Facebook, but I just keep finding reasons to go back. I think I'll be fine without it and then the dance studio posts dances or important information there, I need to sell things and it seems to work the best for sales, or old friends I want to stay in contact with are hard to reach in other ways. Since I hid most of my Facebook friends, I'm finding my feed pretty boring, so maybe that'll help wean me.