Academic Achievement of Homeschoolers - are we all that?

[LaxMom]

In an effort to not hijack another thread, I've started a new one to toss around the thoughts on homeschoolers' academic achievement versus their public/charter/private schooled peers.

 

I suspect the oft-quoted statistics of high achievement are based upon the 1998 Rudner study (there are very few). There are problems with this study.

 

As others have pointed out, this is a self-selected group. These are homeschooling families who contracted with - and paid - BJU to administer standardized tests and provide an additional questionnaire to be used in the study. We can probably infer that these are families who have pretty good confidence regarding their children's achievement. Further, there are other statistics that cannot necessarily be applied to the larger picture - such as 95.8% of the respondents self-identifying as Christian and 97.2 being married - which would be reflective of the group invited by BJU to participate (not saying anything about BJU, other than their demographic group is going to be strongly Christian and possibly more academically competitive, given their reputation in the curriculum realm).

 

Also resenting a problem in just looking at the standardized test scores of homeschoolers is that there is no standard requirement for testing and, in states that require testing, no standard requirement for reporting the scores.

 

Further, using PSAT, SAT and ACT scores would provide questionable results, as institutionally schooled students are encouraged to take these tests, whether college bound or not, whereas only college bound homeschoolers would seek out testing opportunities. Further, given the nature of our educational outlook, I would assume that there are a number of homeschoolers who enter universities through other means, such as transferring from a community college, which negates the need for testing.

 

There is another, the Jones, Gloeckner study published in the Journal of College Admissions in 2004, which reports (in abstract) the following:

The purpose of this study was to determine differences, in first-year college academic performance, between home school and traditional high school graduates, measured by grade point average, retention, ACT test scores, and credits. To accomplish the purpose, nine null hypotheses were tested to determine if there were differences between home school graduates and traditional high school graduates. The results were: No significant difference in first-year grade point averages; No significant difference in college retention during their first-year (fall to spring semester); No significant difference in first-year credit hours earned; No significant difference in the ACT Composite scores; No significant difference in the ACT English test scores; No significant difference in the ACT Mathematics test; No significant difference in the ACT Reading test scores; No significant difference in the ACT Science Reasoning test scores; and No correlation between the variables: first-year grade point average, first year earned credit hours, first-year retention, and the ACT Composite test score.

I am feeling a little more comfortable with this study, just due to the sampling, but it doesn't necessarily speak to achievement outside of first-year university students.

 

My husband has located a different article ("The Challenges of Researching the Homeschool Population", Amanda J. Soczka, 2007) regarding the difficulty in studying homeschoolers (gee, really?) that I would love to attach here, but it's too big... her abstract essentially backs up our hypotheses regarding the hurdles to obtaining good data.

 

I think the answer to the question (are we all that?) though, is a) probably not and b) who would be able to say definitively since coordinating us is like herding cats? :D

Edited December 2, 2008 by MyCrazyHouse
clarity

[LisaKinVA]

As with all schooling scenarios, I'd have to say there are some good ones, and some not so good ones.

 

In the case of my family, are my children doing better than their PS peers? Or, even better than they would if they were in our local PS? Of that, I have absolutely no doubt. But, generalizing our experience to that of the whole is problematic, at best.

 

There are some states (such as VA) which require annual testing (or evaluations of some sort). It would be interesting to take that data and compare it to the results of the public schooled children within the state (as the pool of testing participants would be much more broad).

 

The college study also has issues, in that, most colleges have a "clustered pool" of candidates. Academically, there is a HUGE middle which are all clustered with similar characteristics (GPA, SAT/ACT scores, high school courses, etc.). There will be high and low achievers outside of the cluster, but the vast majority are very much alike. How the students perform once in school is also going to be clustered, based upon those same early predictors (preparation, etc.)

 

For example, to get into WM & Mary, the suggestion for competitive applicants is to take Calulus -- not statistics. So, most likely, the academic pool within William and Mary would all have similar characteristics of course types, plans of study, SAT and ACT scores, etc.

 

Home schooling is not a panacea, it is not a guarantee of anything. It is (imho), simply a viable schooling option reflecting the values and needs of the individual family -- which, when implemented well, will prepare those children to be educated, contributing members of society at large. Public and Private schools, when implemented well, can have a similar outcome.

 

For the most part, it's all apples to oranges -- even when comparing one PS to another PS.

 

Now, here is something interesting... my youngest brother, who came home in the 3rd grade (making all Satisfactory's and Excellents) could NOT read. In fact, on the CAT he scored well below grade level across the board -- at beginning K level for reading! After coming home one year, he was at grade level in reading/language and after year 2 at home, he was well above grade level across the board.

[Laura K (NC)]

The more I read and the older my oldest gets, the more I understand that homeschooling is an asset if done conscientiously. This is anecdotal, sure, but the president of Belmont Abbey college in NC came to a group of Catholic homeschooling moms. There was only 7 of us there, and he still drove at least an hour and a half to talk to us and to convince us that the money to attend that college was worth it, and that they were actively welcoming homeschoolers, and that homeschoolers tended to stick it out there better than other students.

[Peela]

I have wondered too, and I suspect there are many homeschoolers who fall through the cracks academically.

 

However....given a reasonable academic program- not necessarily a classical or highly rigorous one, just a reasonable one- even if it was only equivalent to that done in average schools- the advantage of one on one attention and supervision seems to count for an awful lot and gives the kids quite an edge. I mean, in school, papers are handed back marked but often not redone or gone over. In homeschool, most of us go over our kids mistakes and make sure they redo them or at least understand why it was a mistake. A teacher in school often cant do that. Not to mention all the other advantages of a tailored program and attention.

My own subjective experience is that both my kids are doing well and have a good foundation and are scoring off the chart in state and national tests, in some areas. Even my child with learning difficulties/dyslexia is high scoring in science and spelling and reading comprehension, although not in his weak area- writing. I do not pursue anything like the academic rigour of many here.

There are some very strong advantages to homeschooling. I have heard people say that it doesn't matter what style of homeschooling is used, homeschoolers always come out ahead, and I personally have my doubts about that- even though I realise there are many brilliant natural learners etc. there are also many families who don't do much at all. My moderator tells me about families who take their kids out of school because of bullying or something, and they have no books of any kind in the house, no learning environment at all, and they expect the state moderator to provide a program for their kids- of course that is just not the moderator's job at all- she is just there to check the kids are getting an education.

I don't think the statistics matter so much, although it is comforting to know that homeschoolers generally have a good reputation and reassuring to know my own kids are doing well compared to their schooled peers- statistics refer to the general population and have little relevance to my situaiton.

[LaxMom]

Oh, yes, I have heard from numerous sources that universities actively court homeschoolers. At a conference for umbrella school leaders last month, one of the state education people (I can't exactly recall his exact position, but he is part of the oversight of homeschooling) came and was telling us how impressed a local college dean of admissions was with the homeschool applications he had received for this year.

 

I have no doubt that homeschooling offers all possible advantages in dedicated families; how could it not, when the education is tailored to the individual child? ("dedicated" meaning dedicated to our children's education, not to imply we're superheroes or that we don't all have bad days, or even months!)

 

My point of posting this is simply that people like to quote the statistics that imply that homeschoolers, as a group, are extremely high-achieving but, in reality, there are few studies and the ones available use very specific sample groups that do not demographically represent homeschoolers in the larger scope. It's nice that they're flattering, but they're still based on bad data because they want to extrapolate the findings of a discreet group to the majority of homeschoolers.

 

Do I think there is a way to get better data? No. I think, as a large, diverse sample group, we're a frustrating lot to try to study. Plus, as they say, coordinating homeschoolers is like trying to herd cats. (Actually, I find the Soczka article oddly gratifying, since she couldn't seem to get any consistent data, either... at least the challenges I face trying to "herd" fellow homeschoolers is not unique to me. :D)

[LaxMom]

There are some states (such as VA) which require annual testing (or evaluations of some sort). It would be interesting to take that data and compare it to the results of the public schooled children within the state (as the pool of testing participants would be much more broad).

 

 

I agree. I think a much better gauge of how homeschoolers measure up in standardized testing would be to use the data from states that have mandatory testing. In VA, do you also have to report the score? I know some places, you don't. (that would likely skew the results of any studies, as well)

[jeri]

many of us *teach* differently, and expect our children to *learn* different things. For example, those of us who are total WTM geeks have our kids learning Latin (or Greek), usually quite a ways prior to high school (the traditional starting point). Or we use different math. In our house we use Rightstart, SM, and Horizons (ok, I've got 6 kids so I have to have a little variety) contrasted with the local very highly -regarded school system which uses Everyday Math. I guess what I am saying is that I think many of our kids are different in what they learn and how they learn. So, in comparing their academics to mainstream kids, they may score averagely (is that a word?) in some subjects, but don't even get a shot at what they are really good at. So, while kids who are conscientiously homeschooled (like all of our kids, LOL) may score average or much better, that is only the tip of the iceberg to what they are really capable of.

 

jeri

[newlifemom]

I believe that NHERI(sp?) is actively researching and compiling statistics for various studies. A lot of research on testing came from them. Dr. Brian Ray is the lead guy and I am pretty sure he works as hard as he can to portray accurate data of hsers. Of course as someone already mentioned hsers are a lot like cats so you do the best you can with what you've got. KWIM?

[anissarobert]

Dr Brian Ray of the The National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI) has spent years studying homeschoolers. I have seen several articles about his research over the years, and he usually finds that on the whole homeschoolers do better than then public school students. The one major exception that I remember was math.

 

I am sure there are homeschool students that fall throught the cracks, but I am also sure that they are far fewer in number than those who fall through the cracks in the public schools.

 

NHERI's website http://www.nheri.org/NHERI-Research.html

[anissarobert]

Pam- I was posting, so I didn't see that you had already posted it.

 

We must have been on the same wavelength.

[camibami]

You have to report scores in VA, and must score over the 4th stanine, which I have no idea what that means, but have never had a problem, LOL.(I am pretty sure run on sentences are also covered- too bad I went to school in Washington, eh?) A Virginia-specific study would be interesting, purely on test scores; I wish someone would do one. We have a "portfolio" option though, so I imagine anyone whose kids may not do well on the standardized tests already chooses this option, thus making a study once again self-selecting. Rats.

 

Are there any states with mandatory, everyone, standardized testing for hs'ers? SOmeone (unbiased, which would be...who? Not the HSLDA or NEA!) should do a study. I'd love to see the results of it, myself.

 

All that said, even our less-than-the-most rigorous hs'ing is matching up very well against one of the best school districts in the country, as far as I can see. We watch a girl who is a year ahead of my oldest DD, and she brings her homework. She's at a gifted magnet school, in this high-performing county, and I am just not that impressed. Lots of busy-work, and she is not exposed to nearly the depth of our history, science or LA. Math looks ok- my oldest is accelerated, so its tough to gauge math.

 

Our primary reason for hs'ing is not necessarily academics though! Its a lifestyle choice that works best for us. Its a nice way to grow up. Its the freedom to take vacations in September and do math in JUly if we want. Those things can't be measured in tests or college acceptance rates.

[Paula in PA]

Are there any states with mandatory, everyone, standardized testing for hs'ers? SOmeone (unbiased, which would be...who? Not the HSLDA or NEA!) should do a study. I'd love to see the results of it, myself.

 

Pennsylvania has mandatory, required testing for 3rd, 5th, and 8th grades.

[Peek a Boo]

...then you have homeschoolers like me who see "academics" and "high achievement" as two separate issues ;)

 

There are way too many variables to accurately compare public schoolers to homeschoolers: family lifestyles and values are a HUGE part in both categories. There is no control for a study like this unless you are monitoring every minute of their day 24/7. and i kinda feel that way about most medical studies too. So i would expect serious flaws in ANY 'test' or 'study' done that tries to show either PS or HS as higher or lower or on par.

 

and because i don't think a study would prove beneficial At. All. because of those reasons, I would NEVER even consider holding homeschoolers accountable to some test. NY requires testing every other year starting in 4th/5th grade and...every year ? for high schoolers. But you are only required to report that they scored at or above the whatever percentile --you don't have to turn in exact scores.

 

I'm biased tho: I homeschool because i can't stand the social carp in the schools --public OR private. I'm content to just make sure my children can Think and Speak and Act w/ honor, integrity, and passion.

 

Academics can be caught up anytime.

Emotional baggage is much heavier to ditch.

and a soiled character is difficult to repair.

:glare:

[LaxMom]

Academics can be caught up anytime.

Emotional baggage is much heavier to ditch.

and a soiled character is difficult to repair.

 

Agreed. That doesn't have anything to do with raw data, though. ;)

 

My point is that the statistics that people cling to have no real basis. The studies are biased, as indicated in their own methodology, not peer reviewed, not replicated... and they are latched onto and distributed as unadulterated fact by people with an agenda.

 

(NHERI clearly has an agenda - or at least a better than neutral view of homeschoolers, indicated by the wording on the website.)

 

As I said, I don't think there is a way to legitimately quantify the achievement of homeschoolers versus public schooled peers, but I think a more accurate sampling would be a subject group where everyone is required to test and report the results.

 

As a point of reference, one of the most frequently asked questions I get from new homeschoolers is whether they should opt in for standardized testing. My answer is always: IF they plan to follow the scope and sequence of the Md Voluntary Curriculum, and they really have a need to measure their children against their public schooled peers, then go ahead. If they are planning to approach home education in any other way than that, however, there is no value in it because they will simply not be covering the same topics in the same way as the test has been developed to expect.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that my 3rd grader would score very low on the state test. Her "social studies" did not begin with her family and branch out but, rather, with ancient history. She's studying chemistry this year, not whatever wacko revolution through life/earth/space/chem/physics the state curriculum does every. single. year. She is now moving into division, but has not refreshed her addition skills lately; we don't cover the entirety of elementary math each year. Hell, I don't even know if she can accurately tell time on an anaolg clock. (And frankly, don't care since we have exactly one such timepiece in the house, and it chimes the hour.)

 

In short, I see no global value in these tests / studies. What I do see, is a lot of number tossing, without anyone subjecting the origin to any scrutiny.

[LisaKinVA]

I agree. I think a much better gauge of how homeschoolers measure up in standardized testing would be to use the data from states that have mandatory testing. In VA, do you also have to report the score? I know some places, you don't. (that would likely skew the results of any studies, as well)

 

We submit a copy of the results... what I see, they see.

[Linda...inOwasso]

I don't need a study to confirm that my dc are doing substantially better academically at home than when they attended a prestigious private school.

 

I set the bar HIGH and dd8 takes the Stanford Standardized Test annually. Dd5 will also, beginning this May. It doesn't matter whether your dc scores high in social studies.... or a particular branch of science, etc... If you haven't covered that in your homeschool, of course they're not going to test well on it.

 

For instance, my dd8 tested way above average on the earth science portion of her Stan. test, but not nearly as high on life science. Well, guess what we studies in 2nd grade? Yep, earth science! So... it was nice to verify that she'd retained the information.

 

Same for social studies.... we didn't study American history in 2nd grade, so she had no idea who Rosa Parks or Harriet Tubman were. That's fine with me. This year we're studying U.S. History so she will know that information if tested on it.

 

The standardized tests are so well broken down that you can easily see where your child is excelling and where they're not. Math, reading, spelling, comprehension, etc... are what matter most to me when evaluating standardized test results. *I* know what material I've covered with my dd, and the test enables me to see where we're at. And, I like to know where everyone else is at too.

 

As everyone mentioned.... getting an accurate assessment of the majority of homeschoolers would be difficult. But, I mainly want to know two things from testing: 1) how are my children doing? and 2) how do my children compare to other children their age?

 

Character, morality, faith, etc... are not something I'm looking to testing for an answer. I'm the best judge of their progress in those areas.

[Niffercoo]

These sorts of discussions always give me pause. If you saw my son's ITBS results, you could draw all sorts of conclusions about my family as homeschoolers. They wouldn't be positive ones. But he is making progress, for him.

 

But then if you saw my first daughter's scores, you might draw the opposite conclusion.

 

Children are individuals, and the quality of a homeschool is not always reflected in test scores.

 

I'm just going to have to stop there. This is one of those subjects that always ends up with me crying and eating chocolate! ;)

[Peek a Boo]

My point is that the statistics that people cling to have no real basis. The studies are biased, as indicated in their own methodology, not peer reviewed, not replicated... and they are latched onto and distributed as unadulterated fact by people with an agenda.

 

who's clinging? ;)

 

i think people tend to cling to [or dismiss] whatever studies they happen to agree/ disagree with.

 

i happen to homeschool not because of any studies, but because of reported facts that come out of the public schools Every. Day.

 

everyone has a bias --esp when it comes to studying educational methods. Even 'neutral' third parties. As has been mentioned elsewhere, to really understand a study you need to look for alllll the ways it could have been corrupted [people lying, stuff mishandled, etc] or ways they went out of their way to skew the results [like the mice/ caffeine study].

 

Any study is biased --but you gotta work w/ what ya got. Bias itself doesn't necessarily make a study WRONG -- it merely presents a specific set of statistics. The basis itself might not be as varied as you [general you] want, but it's still a very real basis.

 

I'm sure that the studies of homeschoolers they HAVE distributed as unadulterated fact IS unadulterated fact.

For that particular study ;)

Just like the mice in the caffeine study absolutely suffered bad effects or died --and if i happen to ingest that much percentage-wise also, i can expect bad results too....maybe....

 

on the flip side, maybe if the public schools would stop trying to run so many studies and instead focus on oh, actually educating the kids, they wouldn't need a study to pawn off to parents ;)

 

Homeschoolers have already figured that out.

 

oh, i just realized i never actually answered your Q:

 

I think the answer to the question (are we all that?) though, is a) probably not and b) who would be able to say definitively since coordinating us is like herding cats?

 

 

a) Absolutely we are :D

b) we get to decide that ourselves. nuthin' like internal audits, eh? lol!