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s/o of 8's blog and Elizabeth Foss videos- Discipline in the home for parents


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I have been thinking about this a lot, and my response is very first-world, so feel free to roll your collective eyes. For background, I live in a very expensive area in a rented home that has less than 200sqft/person and we have no yard. I am very clean and organized. Our home is 70 years old and nothing has been updated since then, and because we rent, we cannot change anything. We have to put up with a lot of weirdness, and our home cannot even be sold "as is" bc of certain things. We dont own much. We only have 2-3 loads of laundry a week for 5 people. With that explanation aside...

I have almost no mindless but necessary work to do, nor do my kids. Deep cleaning our home takes all of 4 hours, and this includes Rug Dr-ing the floors, cleaning the blinds, walls, every surface, etc. There is very little actual work that I can do when my brain needs to veg. The main work available to me is deep-thinking, like planning school stuff, relational stuff, learning, etc. We are all suffering from this. So, when the kids are making loads of noise inside, I have very little to do that is productive but doesnt involve my brain. My kids need meaningful labor (they clean the house every day, do the laundry, dishwasher, cook some meals, etc). That whole list takes them about 15 minutes (except cooking). 

We plan to move in 6 months to a home we own in a different state. One of the reasons I want to move to this home is that it will provide some meaningful labor for all of us. In some ways, having very little labor to do is wonderful, but too much of nothing is not good for my soul.

 

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34 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Waaaait, WE are the thing you're giving up for the greater good?? Boo, Texan! 

Joking aside, though, I've also been spending far too much time on here. Part of the point of my lovely posted schedule is to make me get up off my bum and do something fun and vaguely educational with the kids and not just stay on forums all day. (Like, some of our scheduled things are cooking together and playing games.) 

Ha!  I'm not going away permanently, or at least not planning to, so have no worries. I was completely gone for 3 months before and no one noticed or missed a bit of my brilliant insight 😂, so this will not even be as extreme as that. 

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16 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Ha!  I'm not going away permanently, or at least not planning to, so have no worries. I was completely gone for 3 months before and no one noticed or missed a bit of my brilliant insight 😂, so this will not even be as extreme as that. 

Oh, we noticed 😉 . 

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37 minutes ago, annegables said:

One of the reasons I want to move to this home is that it will provide some meaningful labor for all of us. In some ways, having very little labor to do is wonderful, but too much of nothing is not good for my soul.

 

I find I need meaningful labor too. I don’t like working out mindlessly. If it is at all possible for me to be productive and workout I will do it. I’ll take painting walls, cleaning, diy type stuff, even yard work over crunches. 😝
Having rented I understand where you are coming from. There’s only so much you can do. You can’t get too creative with the house when it’s not yours. 

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First of all Tex you're nuts, we definitely missed you, but I knew you were up-to-here with current events 🙂 so I figured you'd roll back in when you were ready.

Anne! Such a good point about meaningful labor! Co-signed a million billion. 

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My kids can’t function without a fairly good routine. In early days of homeschooling I would take random days off to go do something fun, but then getting back to business would take a day or two. It just simply didn’t work. For the same reason strolling at the park and discussing literature doesn’t work. Doing school while picnicking in the park - also doesn’t work. Even sleep until you are ready to be up and functions - doesn’t work. And yet when we first started homeschooling, I had this vision of life and school functioning beautifully as one. Nope. Not my kids. 
So the best way here is everybody wakes up and gathers a dining room table in the morning figuring out the day’s work. I am strict. I teach less than I supervise, but without my constant watching eye,  there would be a lot more snoring under the table. But once we feel that we worked hard enough for the day, we close books and then do other things - cooking, walking, playing, laundry.  It resembles a public school in a way, but kids prefer it that way. Once they are done, they are done. 
and yes, my DH is a nightmare. He doesn’t respect any rules!

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Okay you guys, so y'all's job is if you see me on here between 9a-4p posting, you need to say AHEM. GET OFF THE BOARDS YOU HYPOCRITICAL SLACKER  (Unless it's a vacation.) because those are the hours I am setting for my kids for no screens. Well. I do let them watch a "school show" during lunch so that I don't have to talk to anyone for half an hour. But I think if I hop on at lunch time then I will slide, so I'm going to stick to 9-4 for myself until school is running like a well oiled machine. Once the kids come back home that is. They're at Grandmas because my parents missed them, so we'll start whenever they return. 

 

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1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Okay you guys, so y'all's job is if you see me on here between 9a-4p posting, you need to say AHEM. GET OFF THE BOARDS YOU HYPOCRITICAL SLACKER  (Unless it's a vacation.) because those are the hours I am setting for my kids for no screens. Well. I do let them watch a "school show" during lunch so that I don't have to talk to anyone for half an hour. But I think if I hop on at lunch time then I will slide, so I'm going to stick to 9-4 for myself until school is running like a well oiled machine. Once the kids come back home that is. They're at Grandmas because my parents missed them, so we'll start whenever they return. 

 

Good for you!! I personally wont give up browsing during the day.  It helps keep me sane  some days while I am waiting in between kids.  I just have to be disciplined to turn away when they are ready.    It is also why sometimes my posts get disjointed bc I'll be typing and have to stop and think I remember where I was, and oops, nope.  If I proofread a post, it is typically long after I have hit submit.  Oh well.  Either post like that or not at all.  🙂

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1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I was disciplined!! I read through a stack of early readers! And all the laundry is done and ACTUALLY PUT AWAY. 

So maybe if I have a set time a couple times a day I can still be productive without abandoning my virtual escapes. 

Waaaait, laundry can be PUT AWAY? Tell me more. 

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We had a good first day back too! I think natural time limits are what work for me: done nursing, put phone away. Also, I picked up some more educational philosophy books to try to replace my habit instead of going cold turkey. But then I’ll probably want to be back on here to discuss them 🤣

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I have all the pretty pencils and pens and better binders and Japanese math paper and whatnot all waiting for the school year. Having grown up without such delightful school supplies, I lose my mind like a little kid.y kids don’t get it, but that’s OK 😉

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2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I have all the pretty pencils and pens and better binders and Japanese math paper and whatnot all waiting for the school year. Having grown up without such delightful school supplies, I lose my mind like a little kid.y kids don’t get it, but that’s OK 😉

Lol, so can identify with this! 1991 happened and all these pretty things from Korea started getting imported and my parents couldn’t afford them. But at least I could look at them! Before that: standard notebooks, standard pencil boxes, standard standard standard.

That said, out of nostalgia and because I think they are effective, I do order primary handwriting notebooks with slanted vertical lines that look just like the ones I used in 1st grade.

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8 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I have all the pretty pencils and pens and better binders and Japanese math paper and whatnot all waiting for the school year. Having grown up without such delightful school supplies, I lose my mind like a little kid.y kids don’t get it, but that’s OK 😉

This weekend dh and I went shopping and I came home with a "back to school" outfit for my 10 yr old.  Nuts?  Yes.  But, that is one of my favorite memories from when I was her age.  Everything is so.....no place to go.....that she was excited and wore it for our "first day of school" pictures and to her violin lesson (masked.)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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2 minutes ago, mms said:

Lol, so can identify with this! 1991 happened and all these pretty things from Korea started getting imported and my parents couldn’t afford them. But at least I could look at them! Before that: standard notebooks, standard pencil boxes, standard standard standard.

That said, out of nostalgia and because I think they are effective, I do order primary handwriting notebooks with slanted vertical lines that look just like the ones I used in 1st grade.


Standard and the paper felt like newspaper! shiny (Smooth to touch!) school notebooks weren’t available in the republics 🙂

Edited by Roadrunner
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20 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I have all the pretty pencils and pens and better binders and Japanese math paper and whatnot all waiting for the school year. Having grown up without such delightful school supplies, I lose my mind like a little kid.y kids don’t get it, but that’s OK 😉

Well what's Japanese math paper??

I went looking for it and ended up reading three articles about this guy lol. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00998-2

 

I sprung for some beautiful decomposition books for the kids for school this year and I don't want to come on too strong but it's one of the best decisions I've ever made in my entire life 😂

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Apparently some of what we studied last year was actually retained. My daughter remembered the difference between a clause and a phrase. 

And I gave a screening spelling test this morning and my bad speller kiddo scored in grade 4.5. I'm like...what

 

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1 hour ago, mms said:

We had a good first day back too! I think natural time limits are what work for me: done nursing, put phone away. Also, I picked up some more educational philosophy books to try to replace my habit instead of going cold turkey. But then I’ll probably want to be back on here to discuss them 🤣

Which books? I am currently nerding out on all the Hirsch books I can get my hands on. Please come back on to discuss your books!

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1 minute ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Apparently some of what we studied last year was actually retained. My daughter remembered the difference between a clause and a phrase. 

And I gave a screening spelling test this morning and my bad speller kiddo scored in grade 4.5. I'm like...what

 

Which spelling test did you give?

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44 minutes ago, OKBud said:

Well what's Japanese math paper??

I went looking for it and ended up reading three articles about this guy lol. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00998-2

 

I sprung for some beautiful decomposition books for the kids for school this year and I don't want to come on too strong but it's one of the best decisions I've ever made in my entire life 😂

I'm glad you asked, because I'm very much what is this paper I might need to buy?!?! Does is make children love math!?!

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15 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I'm glad you asked, because I'm very much what is this paper I might need to buy?!?! Does is make children love math!?!

I want to know, too! Just checked and it turns out the fancy Apica notebook I got for DS6's handwriting, so that his fountain pen doesn't bleed through, is from Japan! I wonder if the math paper is similar?

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16 hours ago, OKBud said:

Well what's Japanese math paper??

I went looking for it and ended up reading three articles about this guy lol. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00998-2

 

I sprung for some beautiful decomposition books for the kids for school this year and I don't want to come on too strong but it's one of the best decisions I've ever made in my entire life 😂


mid feels so nice when I glide my hand. You asked 😂

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00QTA6N8S?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

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20 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Okay you guys, so y'all's job is if you see me on here between 9a-4p posting, you need to say AHEM. GET OFF THE BOARDS YOU HYPOCRITICAL SLACKER  (Unless it's a vacation.) because those are the hours I am setting for my kids for no screens. Well. I do let them watch a "school show" during lunch so that I don't have to talk to anyone for half an hour. But I think if I hop on at lunch time then I will slide, so I'm going to stick to 9-4 for myself until school is running like a well oiled machine. Once the kids come back home that is. They're at Grandmas because my parents missed them, so we'll start whenever they return. 

 

This is my favorite.  

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17 hours ago, annegables said:

Which books? I am currently nerding out on all the Hirsch books I can get my hands on. Please come back on to discuss your books!

Well, I randomly came across Ivan Illich’s Deschooling Society at Goodwill for $0.99 and that was just too good to pass up. Oh man, I thought Holt was a crank! 😂

Not really philosophy of education but I’ve always been interested in the Colfaxes and am now reading their Homeschooling for Excellence. It is very good and very reassuring as I continue to simplify our days.

A conversation with a fellow boardie inspired me to reread Konstantin Ushinskiy (who is unfortunately not available in English, that’s my retirement project lol) and after Elizabeth Foss mentioned her in the video, I would like to check out what St Edith Stein has to say about the education of women.

And of course, I’m still reading along Bookless Lessons for the Teacher Mothet over on the Ella Frances Lynch thread. You should come join us!

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28 minutes ago, mms said:

Well, I randomly came across Ivan Illich’s Deschooling Society at Goodwill for $0.99 and that was just too good to pass up. Oh man, I thought Holt was a crank! 😂

Not really philosophy of education but I’ve always been interested in the Colfaxes and am now reading their Homeschooling for Excellence. It is very good and very reassuring as I continue to simplify our days.

A conversation with a fellow boardie inspired me to reread Konstantin Ushinskiy (who is unfortunately not available in English, that’s my retirement project lol) and after Elizabeth Foss mentioned her in the video, I would like to check out what St Edith Stein has to say about the education of women.

And of course, I’m still reading along Bookless Lessons for the Teacher Mothet over on the Ella Frances Lynch thread. You should come join us!

Elizabeth Foss inspired me to read St. Edith Stein as well. I'm about halfway through her essays about Women. 

It's a bit weird reading her thoughts on reforming German education knowing what will happen to her in the future. 

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19 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

The one from the Spelling Power book. 

Wait. There are grade levels associated? Huh, I found them. I guess I glossed over that.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Roadrunner said:


mid feels so nice when I glide my hand. You asked 😂

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00QTA6N8S?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Holy schnikes I don’t want them to love math that much!!!! That’s one pricey pad! 😂

Edited by Æthelthryth the Texan
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51 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Holy schnikes I don’t want them to love math that much!!!! That’s one pricey pad! 😂

Here's a less pricey version! I don't have the grid ones, but the lined ones my DS6 uses for handwriting are really nice!

https://www.jetpens.com/Apica-CD-Grid-Notebooks/ct/4137

Edited by OneThoughtMayHideAnother
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6 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I’m just used to the 99 cent bin, lol! 

or the 25 cent back to school specials! 

I do like good quality paper though.  (I was excited in Feb to find Mead's reinforced paper on clearance at Target for a $1.  I bought stacks of it (enough where we won't need paper for a long time.)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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19 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I’m just used to the 99 cent bin, lol! 


I only have two kids and each use no more than 2-3 of those a year (one for math and one for science. Sometimes they need an extra for math). Everything else is typed. I had a stash of ruled notebooks and I finally just gave it away. I had a stack of them from Walmart back to school sale. Mine only end up using math paper. 

 

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We use these:

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HG2IK8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They aren't any cheaper, but they are also lovely. My kiddo gets a kick out of the colored pages. We've filled quite a few of these with handwritten math. 

ETA: In fact, I see they are much more expensive, lol. But they are nice. 

Edited by square_25
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35 minutes ago, square_25 said:

We use these:

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HG2IK8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They aren't any cheaper, but they are also lovely. My kiddo gets a kick out of the colored pages. We've filled quite a few of these with handwritten math. 

ETA: In fact, I see they are much more expensive, lol. But they are nice. 


I just bought them. 🤭 and that’s it. No more pretty things for me until I actually need them! 

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4 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:


I just bought them. 🤭 and that’s it. No more pretty things for me until I actually need them! 

Now I'm debating buying the remaining ones in stock, lol. In our local store, they come in different colors, though, which is handy for keeping track of what is what. Right now, I have a LOT of blue notebooks 😞 . But on the other hand, we haven't been going to stores much, and I haven't been able to find these in any other color on Amazon. I should probably look somewhere other than Amazon, huh? 

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15 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Now I'm debating buying the remaining ones in stock, lol. In our local store, they come in different colors, though, which is handy for keeping track of what is what. Right now, I have a LOT of blue notebooks 😞 . But on the other hand, we haven't been going to stores much, and I haven't been able to find these in any other color on Amazon. I should probably look somewhere other than Amazon, huh? 


For the first time I am actually glad I live in the boonies. If I had stores around me stuffed with this temptation, I don’t think I could remain mentally sane!  

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31 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:


For the first time I am actually glad I live in the boonies. If I had stores around me stuffed with this temptation, I don’t think I could remain mentally sane!  

Oooh, I miss our local stationery store. It had so much good stuff. 

NYC stores are teeny, lol, so the merchandise is literally from floor to a very high ceiling. It's kind of like a treasure box 😉 . 

I should probably start going in stores again, sigh. 

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On 8/1/2020 at 3:10 PM, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Is anyone else having the same struggle and what are your best things you do to snap yourself out of a non-disciplined state and hit the reset? 

Yes--we had no schedule due to the pandemic, and then we moved which threw everything off.  It sounds like you know you need a change and are willing to get started, so that's great!  For me what got me out of it was this:  First thing that helped get on track was picking the first day of school.  Starting school would give us the structure/goals/accountability I needed plus variety for the week.  Second thing was something I learned from my mom.  She always said it takes two weeks to get back in the groove for school.  She'd wake us up early and have us start practicing our routines.  By the time that the first day of school rolled around we were already back in our old habits so it wasn't a huge issue to begin.  I adapted that to homeschool by taking one week to get our normal, nonacademic daily flow back (chore times, rest times, screen times, etc.).  The second week we did all of that plus reading--I didn't want the kids to be overwhelmed by a full day of school and wanted them to get back to reading again anyway.  The first "true week" of school we did math, reading, a pared down version of our together time.  Now we are doing typical days.  Everything has gone very well using the two week system as applied to homeschool!  

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3 hours ago, domestic_engineer said:

do you have a link for this, please?  I'm curious.

http://www.ruskniga.com/tetrad-v-kosuju-linejku-12-listov-shkol-naja.html

The price has gone up quite a bit. I ordered a pack of 24 years ago for $0.50 a piece and still have many left because we only use them for a little while before switching to composition books.

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9 minutes ago, mms said:

http://www.ruskniga.com/tetrad-v-kosuju-linejku-12-listov-shkol-naja.html

The price has gone up quite a bit. I ordered a pack of 24 years ago for $0.50 a piece and still have many left because we only use them for a little while before switching to composition books.

I go to look at a writing pad and now I find myself needing a Hedgehog trivet. 

http://www.ruskniga.com/podstavka-pod-gorjachee-ezh.html

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On 8/3/2020 at 1:19 PM, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Ha!  I'm not going away permanently, or at least not planning to, so have no worries. I was completely gone for 3 months before and no one noticed or missed a bit of my brilliant insight 😂, so this will not even be as extreme as that. 

I don't post often compared to how much I read. I noticed you were gone and was concerned to see when you had last posted. Murphy, too. When people who post often stop posting suddenly, I wonder if something happened to them in real life.

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I think if I can keep this 9-3 or 4 thing off line I will be good to go.  I realized am most tempted to jump online at lunch, but then I know I will have trouble getting offline promptly if there is a good thread! 

Well, that and trim my wants and wishes to what I am actually going to get to with real kids as a real, flawed mother with moods and no superhero cape. I also overbought/planned. Of course. I wish I were better at looping. Or choosing things that looped well. 

I can't figure out if I will do myself a favor on teaching by time and not lesson, or if I'll regret doing that later and constantly feel behind. If anyone wants to psychoanalyze me on that, it would be great, lol. 

I realized today I really do need to line out every day for my kids exactly what we plan to cover that day. I keep meaning to and don't do it. I should go do that right now for tomorrow. It's just so hard to write down and NOT do it for some reason. But I can't tell how long a some things are going to take, so it's going to happen.

 

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1 hour ago, Meriwether said:

I don't post often compared to how much I read. I noticed you were gone and was concerned to see when you had last posted. Murphy, too. When people who post often stop posting suddenly, I wonder if something happened to them in real life.

Yes, I’ve been worried about Martha as well. I hope whoever has contact with her off boards posts an update!

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On 8/2/2020 at 8:48 AM, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I feel like I need a therapy session to figure out why my husband drains all of my motivation and focus away, when I actually really enjoy being around him. But he has a major effect on the mojo-forcefield in my life. 

I haaate to admit this, but when DH was deployed during covid time, I was at peak performance. We were on it. House was clean, projects were accomplished, routines were kept. Something about survival mode and the pressure of being The One Person means I keep my stuff together. Because if I lose it, no one picks up my slack.

So. Now that he is home all day every day, we had to make him an office and close his door for me to even remotely get anything done.

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3 hours ago, EmseB said:

I haaate to admit this, but when DH was deployed during covid time, I was at peak performance. We were on it. House was clean, projects were accomplished, routines were kept. Something about survival mode and the pressure of being The One Person means I keep my stuff together. Because if I lose it, no one picks up my slack.

So. Now that he is home all day every day, we had to make him an office and close his door for me to even remotely get anything done.

Yeah, when DH is gone, I'm so much more organized and things run more smoothly. It's kind of sad. I was watching a Great Course lecture yesterday that kind of explained why this happens. The prof said when you're in a relationship, you outsource some of your self control to the other person and then you are less motivated about whatever goal you're talking about. It's good in a way because it gives you the ability to do more globally in your life without burning out- we only have so much self control energy. But it's bad in some ways because each individual goal gets less attention. And then, especially if your partner is not really contributing to the self control goal you've put off on them, then you aren't getting the expected benefit.

He didn't speak specifically about parenting, but based on his theory, I think it can be a mixed bag because you're both outsourcing to the other person (because you have the same goals) and so both of you have less focus on it then you would have individually. I'm pretty sure DH is outsourcing way more than half of his parenting self control onto me! 😉 It's like when everyone is watching the kids at an event, you should know that nobody is watching the kids! I think single parents (or temporary single parents) may actually do a better job in some ways because they know the responsibility is all theirs and hopefully parenting is a very important role in their lives, but over time they'll struggle more in other areas of their life or become more exhausted because they can't outsource their self control needs to other people as well as those with a partner can.

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