Something to consider regarding masks/children

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

One thing I realized with online,  and I am expecting it to be as much if not more the case with masks, is that I have to be MORE cheery and upbeat and animated than I do in person normally,

YES!!! We have an SLP doing this. It seemed odd (to me, watching) at fiirst because it was noticably more than her norm. But yes, so effective. I just hadn't made the connection that that is what happened at the dentist. It was so unpleasant ds threw several appointments later that week, refusing to mask (he's now back on track) and I was wanting to drop my appt. But I think this is a workable explantion. I love that yo're supporting your students this way. They appreciate it, even if they don't say it. 

[PeterPan]

15 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

but we need to talk about CQ - change quotient - people’s ability to deal with and adapt to changing circumstances is being seriously put to the test.

Flexibility falls under EF (executive function). So you'll have degrees of lack rigidity and resistance to change, where eventually it's clinical (ADHD, ASD, ODD, OCD, etc). 

I know I'm clinically rigid and I acknowledge it and take steps to deal with it. What mystifies me is the unhealthy reinforcement of rigidty in the church, where being defensive, militant, resistant, antagonoistic is somehow defending the faith and = patriotism. To me some of that is people not acknowleding they're rigid and that they have issues and looking for things to reinforce themselves rather than grow.

I think widespread, unacknowledged ADHD is behind it. They usually make do, but in this case their deficits are show. https://www.understood.org/en/learning-thinking-differences/child-learning-disabilities/executive-functioning-issues/flexible-thinking-what-you-need-to-know 

That's all I can figure. Otherwise they're just JERKS? 

Edited August 1, 2020 by PeterPan

[Lady Florida.]

13 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

The thing is, I can understand how it could feel awful to wear one. It’s not even all that hot here, but I felt a bit woozy last week while shopping and then walking across the parking lot. I could tell I was breathing more shallow, and had to make an effort to change. I think I’d be miserable if I had to wear one in a typical humid, hot, Southern climate. I’m thinking I may appreciate it, tho, this winter, when I normally get chapped lips with the first big freeze.

But it’s doable. I don’t know if the OP was describing children with heart troubles or kids who were given ultrasounds due to elevated heart rates from panicking while masking. The former would not be required to wear them in public, the latter possibly could be exempted or be taught how to breathe and relax, because I think we’ll be wearing masks for quite a while.

It's definitely doable, especially for kids without any issues. I do live in a hot, humid climate where we've had temperatures over 90F since May, with humidity 80% or higher at all times. And I see kids with masks on everywhere. Neither my state nor my specific area has a mask mandate and kids are still wearing masks. In Florida. In summer. Is it hot and miserable at times? Yes. But it can be done by people of all ages. Air conditioning is the norm here though, and people don't spend a lot of time outdoors so we're not really wearing masks in the heat for any length of time.

Our school board just met last week to change the wording about masks. They changed it from "masks are encouraged" to" masks are required" and made it a part of the dress code so they can enforce it. Only those with medical reasons for not wearing a mask (including kids on the spectrum) will be exempt. ETA: The mask requirement at schools is for grades 3 and up. K-2 is still encouraged but not required.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[debinindy]

29 minutes ago, beckyjo said:

She actually stated in the original post that she didn't want to have a discussion - she simply wanted to drop it and leave. So, we are free to discuss among ourselves.

 

Because she knows from experience how these "discussions" tend to go.

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I wish they had told me ahead, so I could have prepped him.

This is completely valid. At this point, though, I think we probably all need to expect it, even though it may still be a visual shock the first time we're there. 

 

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I would rephrase that: when parents and kids have anxiety (a chemical, physical, diagnoseable issue), it makes wearing masks harder.

And this is valid, too.

It sounds like you've taken a lot of steps to make this work, and that's great. But some people are just complaining and resisting, which doesn't make adjusting to the situation any easier for their kids.

 

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I think these professionals are dealing with their own anxieties

I'm sure this is so true. If I were in a job where I was dealing with the public every day, and especially if I were, say, a dentist, lol, I'm not sure how well I'd be coping. Just a trip to the grocery store makes me uncomfortable, even though we're in an area with high mask compliance. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

It's definitely doable, especially for kids without any issues. I do live in a hot, humid climate where we've had temperatures over 90F since May, with humidity 80% or higher at all times. And I see kids with masks on everywhere.

Confession here. I FINALLY got in to see my dad in his assisted living apartment and then possibly offended and worried him because I took my mask off. I tried SO HARD because it was the plan, but he keeps his place quite warm (74-76) and I couldn't breathe! I stayed back, because we were there to clean, not socialize. But I had no clue I'd get so overwhelmed like that. I see these videos of people doing Disney in masks and I dont know how, sigh. And if I'd ever be motivated, it's trying to keep my father safe, kwim?  Now I have to have a game plan or plan B for heat I guess. I don't know. We did send him out part of the time.

I might be better in something else but I'm unclear on face shields vs masks, what is accepted places, etc. For my dad's it could be a great solution.

And businesses are within their legal right to refuse access, in spite of medical excuses. I also know people being flippant about it and it PISSES ME OFF. Some of us are trying that hard and they're looking for any excuse and then telling people around them they dont have to either. It's crazy.

29 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

if I were, say, a dentist, lol, I'm not sure how well I'd be coping.

The dentist was pretty chilled and came across as friendly and engaged. I really think it was the anxiety of the hygienist. I'm just going to skip her. She didn;t make conversation nothing. It was so awkward.

34 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Just a trip to the grocery store makes me uncomfortable,

I don't know why I'm not. I mean, for all my other eccentricities and worries, I'm not about this. I don't think there's a lot of data (that I've seen) to indicate it's high risk for occasional shoppers. (vs employees there all day with micro exposures)

[Pronghorn]

I wonder if occupational therapists should be used to help people learn mask-wearing skills.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Pronghorn said:

I wonder if occupational therapists should be used to help people learn mask-wearing skills.

For at least one of my students (who has been wearing his “woody bandana” and “buzz space helmet” in online lessons to practice-and is SO stinkin’ cute!) that has been the case. His OT and parents have been working with him all summer to find options that work for him. 

[katilac]

5 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

 
I pointed out to her that their moms refuse to wear masks in the lobby area. I didn’t tell her that the two moms whisper about me and mock me for wearing the mask. 
 

You should really leave or wait in your car if you can. You are protecting them, and they are not protecting you. And, if they go so far as to mock you for wearing a mask, I don't imagine they're avoiding large gatherings and so forth. 

 

44 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Confession here. I FINALLY got in to see my dad in his assisted living apartment and then possibly offended and worried him because I took my mask off. I tried SO HARD because it was the plan, but he keeps his place quite warm (74-76) and I couldn't breathe! I stayed back, because we were there to clean, not socialize. But I had no clue I'd get so overwhelmed like that. I see these videos of people doing Disney in masks and I dont know how, sigh. And if I'd ever be motivated, it's trying to keep my father safe, kwim?  Now I have to have a game plan or plan B for heat I guess. I don't know. We did send him out part of the time.

My plan B would probably be to just let his apartment be somewhat dirtier, lol. I wouldn't want to do housework in a mask at 76 degrees, either, and I think that a bit more dust and dirt is better than taking off my mask. I'd also prioritize the socializing over the cleaning anyway (unless he's difficult? I'm getting my well trained parents mixed up). 

Alternately, I would just tell him the temp needs to be lower while I'm there cleaning. It sounds like he can be somewhere else if he doesn't want to put on a jacket, so that's fair enough. 72 is my max temp for really active housework! Maybe 74 if I had a box fan pointed at me, which might be another idea. Twenty bucks at Walmart, and I could point it towards me and away from my dad.

 

[Moonhawk]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I would rephrase that: when parents and kids have anxiety (a chemical, physical, diagnoseable issue), it makes wearing masks harder. I'm not sure what is so confusing about this. I started meds, think positively, took steps to ensure fit/comfort, and have a personality that matches my blood type. I ust happen to have a body and chemistry that makes it harder. After 30-40 minutes I'm having to breath deeply and use strategies not to bolt out of the room. It's not for lack of WANTING to comply with the law. And if my ds wears a mask somewhere and then needs time to recover mentally, that doesn't mean I failed him or didn't try hard enough.

I mean, first we weren't allowed to have opinions, now not FEELINGS??? If I feel stressed and need a break it's because I didn't try hard enough???

So yes, I think the whole community should conclude that just because it's a nothing for them that it's not an issue for anyone if they ust suck up.

So this is something I was thinking about separately based off of a few responses in the thread re: if the board is being harsh on this, but then you said this so perfectly I felt like I wanted to use it as a deck to jump from. Because I think this is a thing, that we are confusing our opinions and feelings on this topic. PeterPan, this isn't actually directed towards you, I'm just taking a thought and doing a think out loud from it (eta: I think you're actively doing your best with your situation and actively looking to make it better, so yeah, my below is totally not about you). The "you" is a "general you" for the rest of this post.

First, feelings are always valid because they are emotions, you cannot change them and each person has them. Even if someone can make the argument that a feeling may not be "justified" [because breaking a pencil tip does not actually "justify" a crying fit that lasts for hours] does not negate that the actual emotion being felt by the person is valid.

Anyone who tried to "take away" or downplay your feelings is in the wrong. 

But, opinions are not feelings. An opinion is a thought. And not all thoughts are created equal. Specifically, when an thought/opinion deals with a scientific area, and that opinion is in direct contradiction to the observed facts and truths of the scenario it is reasonable to have others disagree with you and show you that your opinion is not actually a valid one. I cannot state that my opinion is Pluto was robbed of its planethood ('that's messed up, right?') to a room of astronomers and then expect them to "respect my beliefs" on the subject. 

So, when people are continually putting forth opinions/arguments that we shouldn't as a society be promoting masks, people are coming out to disagree with them based on the mounting evidence that masks can help us fight Covid-19. I think some of us are getting a bit less discussion-over-tea because it has a) been going on so long b) we have addressed most of these objections multiple times now and c) it doesn't feel like the other side is actually listening: they just want us to hear their opinions, be acknowledged as "valid", not have any actual discussion around it or admit that their opinion is ONLY an opinion and can be wrong.

Yes, there are *concerns* around wearing masks, and those are something as a society we are trying to grapple with. I think the majority of this thread has actually been pretty constructive in trying to think about how to make masks more acceptable and less anxiety-inducing for those that are having a negative reaction. And I get the thing about everyone having different medical/physical tolerances and actual medical contra-indicators, and we need to find, again, ways to accommodate this while still keeping society at large safe (face shields for example. I've been a big promoter of that around here with all my links, lol, because I acknowledge there is a place for it for some situations/people and I want it to be normalized for them). 

That does not make an opinion about society in general not wearing masks any more valid when compared to the evidence. Having one good point does not mean your overall position is tenable.

If the topic was phrased more as "I'm having serious anxiety about using masks and seeing masks in society. Kids are probably going to have serious anxiety about this, too," you would see a much different response. But the thread was started more as, "There are health concerns about wearing masks, look at these anecdotes. Are we doing the right thing by making our children wear them?" with an insinuation that we are not. So of course people are doing to point out the facts about mask wearing and the benefits.

Once you bring in 1 anecdote about how masks could be a bad thing in general, you have to be prepared for 1+ anecdotes to the contrary as well as a mountain of data to fall on you.

In scientifically-based situations, if you are willing to air an opinion, you have to be prepared to accept your opinion is wrong.

Or you can, I suppose, just say you don't care if it's wrong and keep it. (Hi, Mom!)

Edited August 1, 2020 by Moonhawk

[prairiewindmomma]

29 minutes ago, Pronghorn said:

I wonder if occupational therapists should be used to help people learn mask-wearing skills.

Yes. When dd with sensory issues was going through chemo 10 years ago and had to wear N95s, we got training and support on mask wearing.

Speaking of which, @PeterPan, have you tried seeing if blowing air helps you keep a mask on? We had tiny battery operated fans and they helped immensely...with overheating, with claustrophobia, and with the stale air smell.  Dealing with blowing air on the face seems to counter some of the other sensory sensations of mask wearing.

[teachermom2834]

52 minutes ago, katilac said:

You should really leave or wait in your car if you can. You are protecting them, and they are not protecting you. And, if they go so far as to mock you for wearing a mask, I don't imagine they're avoiding large gatherings and so forth. 

 

 

Oh yeah. I wouldn't stay in close proximity with them at all. It's just in passing when people walk in for a minute. I really try not to hang around much of anyone. I don't think of my mask as protecting me much at all.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

let his apartment be somewhat dirtier

Nope he has clinical problems and there was piling up debris. They would kick him out. We hauled out 6+ bags of trash from his tiny tiny apartment.

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Confession here. I FINALLY got in to see my dad in his assisted living apartment and then possibly offended and worried him because I took my mask off. I tried SO HARD because it was the plan, but he keeps his place quite warm (74-76) and I couldn't breathe! I stayed back, because we were there to clean, not socialize. But I had no clue I'd get so overwhelmed like that. I see these videos of people doing Disney in masks and I dont know how, sigh. And if I'd ever be motivated, it's trying to keep my father safe, kwim?  Now I have to have a game plan or plan B for heat I guess. I don't know. We did send him out part of the time.

 

Wait, that's warm? Our a/c pretty much stays on 75-76 all the time. I might temporarily bump it down to 73 if I'm doing heavy housework. I have one friend who keeps hers at 70 but for most people I know 74-76 is normal. Now for heat that's way too high, but for a/c it's comfortable. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

72 is my max temp for really active housework!

haha i like that!! we found his air unit covered in stuff with mold underneath. But yeah if it's cleared off that is a great plan. 

That's what happens when the state doesn't let people help their loved ones for 6 months sigh. All kinds of stuff gets overlooked by staf or worse.

[PeterPan]

Just now, Lady Florida. said:

Wait, that's warm? Our a/c pretty much stays on 75-76 all the time. I might temporarily bump it down to 73 if I'm doing heavy housework. I have one friend who keeps hers at 70 but for most people I know 74-76 is normal. Now for heat that's way too high, but for a/c it's comfortable. 

LOL Youre in FL. My ac lives at 69. When it goes up to 71 in the house ut feels hot. 

But I think like you're saying I can just turn it down when I get there and back up when I leave. It's tricky because you're trying to be respectful of someone else's place. But now that I know, I can have these otpions.

ps. This could explain why my ds wears turtlenecks in summer hahahaha

[PeterPan]

49 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes. When dd with sensory issues was going through chemo 10 years ago and had to wear N95s, we got training and support on mask wearing.

Speaking of which, @PeterPan, have you tried seeing if blowing air helps you keep a mask on? We had tiny battery operated fans and they helped immensely...with overheating, with claustrophobia, and with the stale air smell.  Dealing with blowing air on the face seems to counter some of the other sensory sensations of mask wearing.

That could be really discreet in church!! Even just fanning, you're right. Definitely will try. 

I also struggleto keep my glasses clear, which adds to the stress. If the mask is VERY DRY and fresh I survuve. But as he day or outing goes on it gets worse. Breaks don't solve that, so I assume it's holding moisture. Hello, maybe I take several and change every hour? Hadn't thought of that.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, kdsuomi said:

Yet again, people are saying that it's basically in people's heads. You're just not trying. You just have a bad attitude. You obviously can't have a medical condition that honestly makes you not feel that way. 

Fortunately I have very thick skin and know myself. I share so people can see (otherwise why bother), but if they don't want to it's their loss.

Besides, by sharing I'm actually getting some help! I was in whine mode and hadn't gone to problem solving mode.

[Terabith]

14 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Wait, that's warm? Our a/c pretty much stays on 75-76 all the time. I might temporarily bump it down to 73 if I'm doing heavy housework. I have one friend who keeps hers at 70 but for most people I know 74-76 is normal. Now for heat that's way too high, but for a/c it's comfortable. 

I can't really get my house cooler than about 78 by afternoon, no matter what I have the a/c set to.  

[PeterPan]

16 minutes ago, square_25 said:

They aren’t awful, they are annoying.

That's you. I have to live in my body. For people with sensory issues, anxiety, etc. masks can be exceptionally hard.

Can you eat steak? It hurts me. Can you eat Cheerios Oat Crunch? For me it's like eating knives. I can't tell when I've fractured vertebrae or hurt my wrist but cereal hurts me, lol.

So I'm glad clothing, textures, sensory, are not issues for you. They are for some people. My dd struggles even to wear long sleeves because fabric hurts so much. Masks are very hard for her to tolerate and she can't wear the Happy Mask that I can survive. She's down to the stpid thin white knit masks that are not keeping her safe, sigh.

[katilac]

15 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

 FTR and FWIW, I understand having a hard time with masks. I was ordering food  recently and the guy couldn’t hear me so I spoke louder. That made me need more air and it was sooo hard to just not yank it off. They really are awful. And for some worse than others.

I often just write these things down and hand over the piece of paper. 

Just now, kdsuomi said:

Because she knew how it was going to end up. Yet again, people are saying that it's basically in people's heads. You're just not trying. You just have a bad attitude. You obviously can't have a medical condition that honestly makes you not feel that way. 

I really don't see posters having that attitude or saying those things. When somebody drops something off for discussion, it's going to be discussed. If someone says they think widespread harm may be done to children if they wear masks, it's perfectly legitimate to disagree with that. 

No one who's been on these boards for longer than a hot minute should be surprised to find that it is full of passionate, opinionated people who will call you out for making dubious assertions or misstating facts. I don't recall anyone being ugly on this thread - it's not being mean to strongly disagree with someone. 

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

That could be really discreet in church!! Even just fanning, you're right. Definitely will try. 

I also struggleto keep my glasses clear, which adds to the stress. If the mask is VERY DRY and fresh I survuve. But as he day or outing goes on it gets worse. Breaks don't solve that, so I assume it's holding moisture. Hello, maybe I take several and change every hour? Hadn't thought of that.

I think I'll try that, too. It would be easy to run a small fan in my studio, and it might make it easier for the kids to wear masks especially after a school day, or for me, since I will have several 3-4 hour stretches where I am either teaching or cleaning between students. 
 

I usually change multiple times when I'm wearing cloth masks and shopping or whatever,, but I'm reluctant to go through several Happy Masks in a day because each can only be washed 50 times before it needs to be replaced, 

Edited August 1, 2020 by dmmetler

[PeterPan]

Just now, square_25 said:

Ok, I grant that it’s awful for you. Is it awful for everyone who says it’s awful? 

I haven't met many saying that, have you? The ones I know have sensory. But I do know people blowing them off with doctor's excuse and encouraging others to blow them off. I do know people telling us not to bother with ds. To me that's looking for EXCUSES. But if somebody tries or gathers their data in their safe way and says it's hard, why wouldn't you extend courtesy to believe them? Why not be gracious?

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, dmmetler said:

I usually change multiple times when I'm wearing cloth masks and shopping or wnafwcee,, but I'm reluctant to go through several Happy Masks in a day because each can only be washed 50 times before it needs to be replaced, 

Sometimes I can get sun to sanitize, but not today and not soon with winter. Maybe there's another way?

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Ok, I grant that it’s awful for you.

BTW, I wouldn't say it's awful for me. It's a challenge. It's why before the mandate I didn't and simply kept distance. But I comply with the law and am not turning into a hermit.

If I degrade to saying it's awful, I've lost the mental battle. It's the law and it's challenging. I'll be glad when it's gone.

[PeterPan]

Just now, square_25 said:

Maybe because I’m a stupid car dealership where everyone has their mask around their chin, lol. And we’ve been here for 3 hours and I’m in a foul mood. I apologize.

In NY? I thought everyone was so serious there!! 

It's amazing to hear these stories around the country. Our state may be more civilized than some.

So are you getting a cool car? They should install mask sanitizers. It should be a USB attachment. I'll bet it exists, lol.

[Skippy]

8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Ok, I grant that it’s awful for you. Is it awful for everyone who says it’s awful? 

There are many reasons why they are difficult for people. I can deal with them, but I have compassion for those who are struggling. Many people have breathing problems, and it pains me to watch them struggling. Some people don’t want to broadcast this to others, but those who have been sexually assaulted, especially as children, can have panic attacks with anything around their faces. Should they have to explain this to every judgmental person? Why can’t people be more compassionate?

[Moonhawk]

13 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I haven't met many saying that, have you? The ones I know have sensory. But I do know people blowing them off with doctor's excuse and encouraging others to blow them off. I do know people telling us not to bother with ds. To me that's looking for EXCUSES. But if somebody tries or gathers their data in their safe way and says it's hard, why wouldn't you extend courtesy to believe them? Why not be gracious?

This may have to do with location. A few weeks ago the guy in line in front of me, unmasked, looked back at me, laughed at me and said to the cashier (but for my benefit), "People are really duped about this whole thing. What a bunch of sheep." (Actually can't remember the exact words anymore, which is progress since I replayed it a lot in the days afterward.) I'm consistently seeing people in my local area not saying they *can't* wear masks, or it's *difficult to wear* masks, but that they *won't* wear a mask or that *it's inconvenient* to wear a mask.

So, because this informs my perception of the objections, I tend to address these objections more and have less patience now than I did last month. 

But, I do know and understand there are people with genuine medical concerns, and I try not to invalidate that since I don't have the knowledge on the topic, and instead just say "face shield?" if I think it's helpful. 

But even in these cases, we need to find ways that address their problems and preserve the safety of the population at large. It doesn't just flip the switch to meaning certain people are exempt from how they can be affecting the health of others.

[teachermom2834]

3 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

This may have to do with location. A few weeks ago the guy in line in front of me, unmasked, looked back at me, laughed at me and said to the cashier (but for my benefit), "People are really duped about this whole thing. What a bunch of sheep." (Actually can't remember the exact words anymore, which is progress since I replayed it a lot in the days afterward.) I'm consistently seeing people in my local area not saying they *can't* wear masks, or it's *difficult to wear* masks, but that they *won't* wear a mask or that *it's inconvenient* to wear a mask.

So, because this informs my perception of the objections, I tend to address these objections more and have less patience now than I did last month. 

 

This is how it is here and I've gotten really sick of it this week. I, actually, come down on the side of personal freedom on this even though I mask. I wouldn't fret about a mask mandate but I'm not clamoring for one. I guess people have a right not to mask, and businesses have a right to refuse service to the unmasked, in my mind. I realize that is an unpopular take on this board but that's where I am on it. But I am so sick of being mocked, called stupid, a sheep, etc for choosing to mask.

I actually don't concern myself trying to figure out why people aren't masking. I stay home as much as possible and try to stay distanced when I can't stay home. I don't have the mental energy to ascribe motives to the non-maskers and especially not to their children. But when wearing a mask means I'm mocked I'm going to assume it isn't a medical issue.

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I can't really get my house cooler than about 78 by afternoon, no matter what I have the a/c set to.  

Our house that we just sold was like that. It had old leaky windows that let in the heat and was nearly impossible to keep it cool, especially in July and August. This new house (new construction) has up to date energy efficient windows and having the a/c at 75 can get downright chilly at times. 

[wendyroo]

1 hour ago, Moonhawk said:

This may have to do with location. A few weeks ago the guy in line in front of me, unmasked, looked back at me, laughed at me and said to the cashier (but for my benefit), "People are really duped about this whole thing. What a bunch of sheep." (Actually can't remember the exact words anymore, which is progress since I replayed it a lot in the days afterward.) I'm consistently seeing people in my local area not saying they *can't* wear masks, or it's *difficult to wear* masks, but that they *won't* wear a mask or that *it's inconvenient* to wear a mask.

So, because this informs my perception of the objections, I tend to address these objections more and have less patience now than I did last month. 

But, I do know and understand there are people with genuine medical concerns, and I try not to invalidate that since I don't have the knowledge on the topic, and instead just say "face shield?" if I think it's helpful. 

But even in these cases, we need to find ways that address their problems and preserve the safety of the population at large. It doesn't just flip the switch to meaning certain people are exempt from how they can be affecting the health of others.

That is similar to here.

Last week a local artist tried to restart small art classes for homeschooled students in her studio.  In the past these classes have been wildly popular.  She stated up front in her Facebook post that all students (upper elementary to high school aged) would have to wear masks or face shields in the studio.  At first there was a flood of parents saying that they were interested, but that their child would not be masked for medical reasons.  The artist replied that for the her safety and that of the other participants there would be no exceptions, but that she would be recording the classes and offering curb side pick up of the art supplies for families who were not comfortable with in-person classes. 

Oh, the backlash.  People got vicious, and many who an hour before had cited a "medical exemption" now freely expressed their true feelings about how horrible/dangerous/unpatriotic masks were and that there was no way they were allowing their child to be masked...for a 45 minute art class. 

Honestly, I got the impression that few of their reactions had anything at all to do with the actuality of wearing a mask, and everything to do with the politics of wearing a mask.  They were not saying "my child can't", but rather "I won't let my child!", sometimes going as far as saying that "inflicting" masks on children is child abuse.  🤨

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

That is similar to here.

Last week a local artist tried to restart small art classes for homeschooled students in her studio.  In the past these classes have been wildly popular.  She stated up front in her Facebook post that all students (upper elementary to high school aged) would have to wear masks or face shields in the studio.  At first there was a flood of parents saying that they were interested, but that their child would not be masked for medical reasons.  The artist replied that for the her safety and that of the other participants there would be no exceptions, but that she would be recording the classes and offering curb side pick up of the art supplies for families who were not comfortable with in-person classes. 

Oh, the backlash.  People got vicious, and many who an hour before had cited a "medical exemption" now freely expressed their true feelings about how horrible/dangerous/unpatriotic masks were and that there was no way they were allowing their child to be masked...for a 45 minute art class. 

Honestly, I got the impression that few of their reactions had anything at all to do with the actuality of wearing a mask, and everything to do with the politics of wearing a mask.  They were not saying "my child can't", but rather "I won't let my child!", sometimes going as far as saying that "inflicting" masks on children is child abuse.  🤨

 

I have gotten much the same response for my small group classes this fall. Apparently there are a sizeable number of people in my area who feel the schools aren't safe enough for their kids, but who find parks and rec requiring masks in our classrooms to be a bridge too far.

 

What I find interesting is that I actually do have a few students who it wouldn't have surprised me if masks were an issue. In every single case, the parents have told me they are working on it, and letting me know what they're doing and asked if that would be sufficient. And in all cases, yeah, if your child can handle a bandana or buff, but not a true mask, or can handle a face shield because it's away from his face, or we'll try it, but right now he's only good for about 20 minutes, so can we wait to put it on until right before the lesson, and then end when he starts to struggle, or whatever, I'll work with you on it. Because a parent who has spent all summer working with an OT and lots of favorite TV shows and Disney characters to help get their hypersensory child to handle a face covering of some form is also a parent who I trust to actually keep their child home if they're running a fever or coughing or if their best friend just got diagnosed with COVID, and even though their child isn't showing any symptoms now, they had a playdate last week.

Edited August 1, 2020 by dmmetler

[Wheres Toto]

2 hours ago, square_25 said:

NJ, actually. I would guess car dealerships aren’t the right place for being careful, lol!! I’m being unfair — some of them had them on. Just ours didn’t. 

Ugh, I don't know why so many people are suddenly being stupid around here, just when our numbers are going up again.  Our Rt is back above 1.  

[happi duck]

30 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

That is similar to here.

Last week a local artist tried to restart small art classes for homeschooled students in her studio.  In the past these classes have been wildly popular.  She stated up front in her Facebook post that all students (upper elementary to high school aged) would have to wear masks or face shields in the studio.  At first there was a flood of parents saying that they were interested, but that their child would not be masked for medical reasons.  The artist replied that for the her safety and that of the other participants there would be no exceptions, but that she would be recording the classes and offering curb side pick up of the art supplies for families who were not comfortable with in-person classes. 

Oh, the backlash.  People got vicious, and many who an hour before had cited a "medical exemption" now freely expressed their true feelings about how horrible/dangerous/unpatriotic masks were and that there was no way they were allowing their child to be masked...for a 45 minute art class. 

Honestly, I got the impression that few of their reactions had anything at all to do with the actuality of wearing a mask, and everything to do with the politics of wearing a mask.  They were not saying "my child can't", but rather "I won't let my child!", sometimes going as far as saying that "inflicting" masks on children is child abuse.  🤨

 

That artist has such a good plan and a good accommodation for those who can't mask!  Sounds like the anti-mask people expected the accommodation to be that they get to do whatever they want.

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

That could be really discreet in church!! Even just fanning, you're right. Definitely will try. 

I also struggleto keep my glasses clear, which adds to the stress. If the mask is VERY DRY and fresh I survuve. But as he day or outing goes on it gets worse. Breaks don't solve that, so I assume it's holding moisture. Hello, maybe I take several and change every hour? Hadn't thought of that.

I have to change cloth masks every hour or so. I can wear a N95 for about 4-5 hours because I have more space around my mouth and nose.

As far as fogging goes, if the metal nose wire isn’t doing it for you, try washing your glasses with cetaphil or other mild soap. The mild film left behind after rinsing helps prevent fogging but isn’t otherwise detectable. (Tip from my opthamologist).

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I haven't met many saying that, have you? The ones I know have sensory. But I do know people blowing them off with doctor's excuse and encouraging others to blow them off. I do know people telling us not to bother with ds. To me that's looking for EXCUSES. But if somebody tries or gathers their data in their safe way and says it's hard, why wouldn't you extend courtesy to believe them? Why not be gracious?

This might be helpful for you

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/helping-people-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-manage-masks-and-covid-19-tests-2020061020089

I have seen loads of medical people talking about this on Twitter - helping people with autism manage masks.

there was also a human interest type story on our news with a dad with three kids with autism who was pretty proud that he’s managed to get them all to wear the mask.

I have been thinking a bit about this for my dd who has some sensory stuff.  We don’t need to mask as yet but have been wondering what will be most comfy for here if we do.  My oldest kid actually wears a bandanna or mask most of spring when he’s home for hay fever so I know he’ll be really easy.  And for me personally I’m a little bit sensory though not to your degree and I actually love the feeling of soft fabric around my face (though that may change in summer).  I’m very aware I think of people breathing and myself breathing and bad smells etc around me and it feels like a security blanket.  So I’m wondering if for some specific people the mask may actually help reduce sensory input a bit.  I have the same feeling with wearing a hood or beanie over ears.  It takes the edge off the sound level in a noisy environment.

[Ausmumof3]

The other tip for glasses fogging is micropore tape across the top of the glasses.

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

This might be helpful for you

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/helping-people-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-manage-masks-and-covid-19-tests-2020061020089

I have seen loads of medical people talking about this on Twitter - helping people with autism manage masks.

Thnak you!!  I was talking with our doctor at his annual about what we have to do if testing, where to go, and basically he was saying hope it's mild and you don't have to. But you're right, even for me I would need to prepare. I hadn't thought about it. My dd got tested, but she tolerates things I don't, like eye drops. 

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The other tip for glasses fogging is micropore tape across the top of the glasses.

How would that help? I usually breath in and get it to clear.Then I just try not to breath out much.

[PeterPan]

39 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I have to change cloth masks every hour or so. I can wear a N95 for about 4-5 hours because I have more space around my mouth and nose.

As far as fogging goes, if the metal nose wire isn’t doing it for you, try washing your glasses with cetaphil or other mild soap. The mild film left behind after rinsing helps prevent fogging but isn’t otherwise detectable. (Tip from my opthamologist).

So would going with a bigger mask help? I got the med in Happy Mask. I haven't looked at myself much to see how it fits.

That soap tip is good!!!

The nose wire sorta works. My face is so sensitive, I try not to play with it much. If I press too much fiddling, I'll have to take it off.

Edited August 1, 2020 by PeterPan

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, PeterPan said:

How would that help? I usually breath in and get it to clear.Then I just try not to breath out much.

I don’t know but I’ve seen it recommended a lot by glasses wearing med people.  I think it seals the top so your breath doesn’t go up behind the glasses or something.  Obviously easier with disposable than cloth masks and depends on whether you can handle the micropore on your skin for long periods but it is fairly breathable and soft.

[katilac]

2 hours ago, wendyroo said:

 Oh, the backlash.  People got vicious, and many who an hour before had cited a "medical exemption" now freely expressed their true feelings about how horrible/dangerous/unpatriotic masks were and that there was no way they were allowing their child to be masked...for a 45 minute art class. 

And this would be the reason I haven't done a single in-person class since March. 

[SereneHome]

3 hours ago, wendyroo said:

That is similar to here.

Last week a local artist tried to restart small art classes for homeschooled students in her studio.  In the past these classes have been wildly popular.  She stated up front in her Facebook post that all students (upper elementary to high school aged) would have to wear masks or face shields in the studio.  At first there was a flood of parents saying that they were interested, but that their child would not be masked for medical reasons.  The artist replied that for the her safety and that of the other participants there would be no exceptions, but that she would be recording the classes and offering curb side pick up of the art supplies for families who were not comfortable with in-person classes. 

Oh, the backlash.  People got vicious, and many who an hour before had cited a "medical exemption" now freely expressed their true feelings about how horrible/dangerous/unpatriotic masks were and that there was no way they were allowing their child to be masked...for a 45 minute art class. 

Honestly, I got the impression that few of their reactions had anything at all to do with the actuality of wearing a mask, and everything to do with the politics of wearing a mask.  They were not saying "my child can't", but rather "I won't let my child!", sometimes going as far as saying that "inflicting" masks on children is child abuse.  🤨

 

People are vicious on both sides of this issue. The fact that it is even an "issue" is a problem in itself.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I get anxious easily. And then wearing a mask while feeling anxious in a crowded grocery store and knowing it's unsafe to take off the mask  makes it even worse. I totally understand this. I try to take long deep breaths to reset the pace. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I don’t know that a bigger mask would help, but a different design? When I wear my cloth masks they are directly against my mouth and nose. When I wear a N95, I have a baseball sized space where my mouth and nose are—nothing touches them. 
 

I think material choice matters too. I am looking at sewing some masks with chiffon inners to get that electrostatic benefit (per the studies). I absolutely know I need cotton not chiffon on the layer next to my skin because I will freak out with polyester touching my face. 

[Wheres Toto]

4 hours ago, wendyroo said:

That is similar to here.

Last week a local artist tried to restart small art classes for homeschooled students in her studio.  In the past these classes have been wildly popular.  She stated up front in her Facebook post that all students (upper elementary to high school aged) would have to wear masks or face shields in the studio.  At first there was a flood of parents saying that they were interested, but that their child would not be masked for medical reasons.  The artist replied that for the her safety and that of the other participants there would be no exceptions, but that she would be recording the classes and offering curb side pick up of the art supplies for families who were not comfortable with in-person classes. 

Oh, the backlash.  People got vicious, and many who an hour before had cited a "medical exemption" now freely expressed their true feelings about how horrible/dangerous/unpatriotic masks were and that there was no way they were allowing their child to be masked...for a 45 minute art class. 

Honestly, I got the impression that few of their reactions had anything at all to do with the actuality of wearing a mask, and everything to do with the politics of wearing a mask.  They were not saying "my child can't", but rather "I won't let my child!", sometimes going as far as saying that "inflicting" masks on children is child abuse.  🤨

 

I've had some backlash for my classes.   Nobody I would call vicious, just withdrawing registrations once I published my handbook.  I think I have the advantage that it's actually the law here so I have to require face coverings except medical/special needs exemptions.   I'm a business, so I have to follow the law.  Businesses have lost their licenses or been fined here and I can't afford either one without shutting down for good.

[wendyroo]

10 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

I've had some backlash for my classes.   Nobody I would call vicious, just withdrawing registrations once I published my handbook.  I think I have the advantage that it's actually the law here so I have to require face coverings except medical/special needs exemptions.   I'm a business, so I have to follow the law.  Businesses have lost their licenses or been fined here and I can't afford either one without shutting down for good.

It is the law here too, but most people don't seem to care.  Many people are simply ignoring laws and signage, or wearing masks as they enter stores and then taking them off as soon as they are past the "greeter".  There has been a lot of hostility and violence directed at employees, so businesses are understandably reluctant to enforce the rules.

All schools in the state are requiring masks of students 6th grade and up, but nobody seems to think they will be able to enforce it...unfortunately, that seems to be a unanimous opinion, share by both those who therefore refuse to send their kids and those who therefore are willing to send their kids.

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 he keeps his place quite warm (74-76) and I couldn't breathe!

 

9 hours ago, katilac said:

72 is my max temp for really active housework! 

 

 

8 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

Wait, that's warm? Our a/c pretty much stays on 75-76 all the time. I might temporarily bump it down to 73 if I'm doing heavy housework. I have one friend who keeps hers at 70 but for most people I know 74-76 is normal. Now for heat that's way too high, but for a/c it's comfortable. 

 

I'm blown away! We have the AC set to 76 almost always - or if it is just me at home, 77! And during the afternoon at this time of year it easily gets to 80 even with the AC - doesn't matter how low you set it, it won't get below 79 or 80...sometimes 81 on the hotter side of the house. Neighbors say the same. An AC guy said that the best the AC can do is about 20 degrees of cooling, and when the heat index is over 100, 80 is 20 degrees cooler. 

Anyone around here would faint if you suggested putting the AC down to 72! It would cost a fortune! Lots of people keep it at 78, actually, to save money. 

[kokotg]

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm blown away! We have the AC set to 76 almost always - or if it is just me at home, 77! And during the afternoon at this time of year it easily gets to 80 even with the AC - doesn't matter how low you set it, it won't get below 79 or 80...sometimes 81 on the hotter side of the house. Neighbors say the same. An AC guy said that the best the AC can do is about 20 degrees of cooling, and when the heat index is over 100, 80 is 20 degrees cooler. 

Anyone around here would faint if you suggested putting the AC down to 72! It would cost a fortune! Lots of people keep it at 78, actually, to save money. 

I'm enjoying this side conversation about AC, perhaps because I'm a little obsessive about ours all summer. Our upstairs unit can do whatever we ask of it, but we have this annoying sunroom with giant windows downstairs that makes the AC have to work really hard. We have to set it lower than we actually want it to be in the mornings (usually we go with 72) so it can get ahead of things....if we do that it can keep it to around 75 or 76 even on really hot, sunny days....otherwise it will slowly creep up to 78 while we watch helplessly. Being the first one up and forgetting to turn the air down before it starts to get hot is a terrible crime in our house.

[forty-two]

21 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm blown away....Lots of people keep it at 78, actually, to save money

I keep mine at 80, Mom did the same growing up.  It's comfy, so long as you have fans going. Anything below 78 feels rather decadent to me, lol.  (And to think, when we lived up north, my neighbors though we were weird for using the ac *too much*.)

Eta: dh's mom used to keep it around 82-85, and that was a little much for me to take.

Edited August 2, 2020 by forty-two