MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) @Spy Car, I appreciate your concern so much! Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 12 hours ago, MercyA said: I just feel like since I've repeated several times, "I will teach under [x] conditions" that I need to teach if they say, "Okay, [x] conditions are approved." I can understand feeling that way. I probably would also want to stand by what I had said. It can add difficulty and angst though if they wait till Saturday to say conditions are not approved, but “we really need you, could you please do it just for tomorrow “ or similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just caught up on the thread. I have taught Sunday School many, many years, and I totally understand your commitment and your love. You mentioned you would only be in the hall, stairwell, classroom, and not upstairs. I am worried for you, though, because if there are openly symptomatic people in your congregation, then NONE of those indoor spaces are safe because you cannot control where people go and you cannot predict who is pre-symptomic or asymptomatic. It honestly sounds like your church could be a cluster? If there are sick people there, then the protocol is to quarantine. In other words, to retreat and stay home until all the people who are infectious and their close contacts are symptom free. Your church really doesn't sound safe to me in the immediate sense right now, and it does not sound safe over the course of the season unless they change their response to the virus. I'm so sorry. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Not to pile on, but our policies here, pretty much for everything involving kids, (church, scouts, sports) require two adults to be in a rooms with kids. In so many places, I am shocked at how entitled some people can be to the volunteer time of others. Here you are, volunteering your time to help out, with little to no say in the safety of how that work would be done. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirstenhill Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, GGardner said: Not to pile on, but our policies here, pretty much for everything involving kids, (church, scouts, sports) require two adults to be in a rooms with kids. In so many places, I am shocked at how entitled some people can be to the volunteer time of others. Here you are, volunteering your time to help out, with little to no say in the safety of how that work would be done. Yes, this! Our church could not get any kind of liability insurance without strict guidelines about always having 2 volunteers at a time in a room. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) [.] Apparently I am judgmental, overly pious, and not accepting of other people's free will. I am in tears. Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA 33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) Hugs. I'm sorry it turned out this way . Edited July 30, 2020 by forty-two 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MercyA said: Mercy, I am so very, very sorry. The only way for them to reject the science is to cast people like you in the role of persecutor or abuser. It's dishonest and unfair, and it hurts. Hugs for you and prayers, too. Edited July 30, 2020 by Harriet Vane Removed quote 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, MercyA said: They will not... You're loving and responsible and dedicated and gracious and trying to do your part to keep yourself and your community safe during a deadly pandemic. They're projecting. Edited July 30, 2020 by wendyroo 15 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) Not quoting, just in case. @MercyA I am so sorry. I would be devastated too. ETA: I agree with wendyroo. Your position is life-centered, others-centered, and Christ-honoring. Given that they are not only rejecting your requirement, but apparently also using disrespectful language toward you, I hope you will feel peace before God about stepping away from this teaching role right now. I pray that God would give you great comfort. I have known the hurt of feeling like church leadership did not hear me, or respect that I had something important to say, and it can be quite hard to deal with. I have also been in tears over such situations. Please know I am praying for you. Edited July 30, 2020 by cintinative 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, MercyA said: They w I am sorry. I wish they had surprised me and I could be happy for your success. Maybe though it will be a little easier to get yourself to walk away now with that response. And you won’t always wonder if only you had not left too soon, given them a chance and waited maybe they would have agreed to the masks. My experience is that it it will hurt for quite a while. 😢 But I hope maybe you will have more resilience than I have had for this sort of loss (and attack) and maybe be able to find a new church congregation that will be more wholesome and healing. From past sort of similar experience I would urge you to leave and to have your daughter leave there too. Edited July 30, 2020 by Pen Not to wuote 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I'm sorry that you are being treated so badly, Mercy. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnwife Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I am sorry things are turning out this way for you. I am also a Sunday School teacher for our church. They announced they won't start registration/classes until at least Oct. There has been no mention of requiring students to wear masks. I have been hesitant to ask, because the church does not require masks for services. But at that point I'll have a newborn, which makes me feel extra cautious. But I have a feeling I will need to ask/state I won't be teaching if they aren't required. It makes me sad. I have truly loved teaching Sunday School. I've been doing it for more than 10 years. But, to me, as a pro-life church (which, as Catholics, we are), everyone should be masking indoors. I mean, shouldn't we be willing to make such a small sacrifice (for those who can, I totally get some people aren't able) to protect those who are vulnerable? Blah. I am sorry you are in a similar position. The only positives I've come up with are that maybe my taking a stand will convince even one other person masks are good. That, and knowing that finding teachers is hard. So, God-willing, when the day comes that I feel comfortable being in the classroom again, there will probably be some class that needs a teacher. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said: Get out - get out - get out! Seriously, Mercy. They crossed the line here. They could have told you this without criticizing you for being judgmental. That's spiritually abusive language. It's telling that they went there. Get far away from any church that engages in that kind of spiritual and emotional manipulation. It's not healthy for you or your child. I'm serious - if your child was at risk, they would not protect him or her (sorry - don't remember). This is the crap churches told victims who spoke out about abuse. It's bad, bad, bad. ETA to take out your quote just in case. I totally agree! I was afraid to be this strong in language. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 13 hours ago, Spy Car said: I just heard Dr Fauci on the news saying that Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee and Kentucky need to brace for the sort of outbreaks that have hit other hot spots. I may be wrong, but are you in Indiana? Please stay home. Bill Yes, all these states without masking requirements or ones that just instituted last week will have a definite lag time before they go down. My county including Huntsville required masks as of July 7th and we have had three weeks of decreasing numbers now. My state required it on July 15th and it is now having decreasing numbers with some notable exceptions that are tied to non compliant churches (and a few other things like that). My county and city have had almost all churches follow the mask orders or not even meet in person and that has really helped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) [.] Thank you all for encouraging me. It means more than you know. Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA 23 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 @MercyA Your prayer and ours was a resolution that would be best for all involved. His way is not ours. Let me offer an opinion. Perhaps God let this go in this direction (including the wounding & abusive tone/words) so that you would have your clear message on your direction WRT this church & your future in (out of) it. He could also have future plans for the leadership that treated you this way, but I believe He is just giving you a clear message as to what He wants you and your DH (and possibly your dd, but that might still be to be revealed) to do about this church. I admire you greatly & am so sorry they have hurt you. I am praying now that you will find peace in their decision and your decision to not teach and for you to see God's path forward for your family, even if it is difficult. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I'm sorry, Mercy. Unfortunately "live and let live" doesn't work so well during a global pandemic that requires the community to work together to safeguard public health. I truly don't understand why this is so hard for some to understand or to get behind. Yes, we all apply principles of doctrine in our own lives. And on a secular level we have always had to do our own risk assessment on certain aspects of our life. And we make a lot of decisions that affect only our household. But in a public health emergency we need to set aside some of those things in order to come together for the common good. (I know that I'm preaching to the choir here. I am mostly typing this out in order to get some things straight in my own head.) As many have pointed out in other threads, it would be one thing if the risk was simply tied to myself and my health but a contagious disease doesn't work that way. I guess time will tell if the church's decisions result in an outbreak in the congregants. (And before someone tells me that I'm gross, I'm not wishing anything on any one. But this is a big game of Russian Roulette, isn't it? And literally "time will tell" if the chamber was loaded or not. ) 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoraBora Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I'm so sorry. 😞 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MercyA said: (Quote removed. Sorry, I forgot.) I'm so sorry this is happening to you! You are being treated unfairly and your tears are perfectly natural. A : You are not judgmental: you have good judgement, which you apply to yourself, and do not lord over anyone else. B : You are not overly pious: you are dedicated to the service of God to the best of your ability, including your ability to assess risks. C : You are totally accepting of other people's free will: they are free to not mask, they are just not entitled to your services if they choose not to do so. Edited July 30, 2020 by bolt. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) . Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Many (hugs) Mean people suck Ime: This kind of spiritual abuse hurts. It will make you question yourself. It will make you cry and cry some more. I am so sorry this is happening to you 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 This is so hard, Mercy. I will stand by what I said earlier about the lack of safety. I think you will have more tears, more times if you try to teach there. I do not think you will be safe, and I think there will be continued drama when people push you to make compromises. I'm so sorry. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 He’s weak so he is being flakey. It’s kind of a character pattern. I wouldn’t make any changes at this point. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 You know what to do. You have already done it. He's just trying to seem wishy-washy enough that you appear to be the one who jumped to unwarranted conclusions. He also is responsible for words like you reported him to have said/written about you personally. These people do not have your back and are not interested in respecting or including you in their decision making processes. You have already resigned. They are just trying to 'call your bluff' in case you are bluffing. You are not. They should not be gathering at all, (and if they do, they should not be unmasked) and you should not be participating or supporting those life-endangering choices. It's a good time to step away, curl up, and let Jesus be Jesus in your life. Jesus is not a building, nor a church of people, nor is he the person of your pastor. Give yourself time. Backbone matters. 7 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I think that the pastor doesn't want to face the consequences of his decision regarding having you as a teacher (or not having you as a teacher in this case). 11 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I'm so sorry. Your pastor and your church family have made it abundantly clear that they do not have your back. The followup email shows that they will manipulate you into coming back because they want a body in that position. Stand firm. You have given them the chance to do the right thing and they bit you instead. 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Now that you've resigned beware of gaslighting. Resigning was a shift in power to you and, ime, things will be said to shift the power back to the pastor. more (hugs) 5 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, happi duck said: Now that you've resigned beware of gaslighting. Resigning was a shift in power to you and, ime, things will be said to shift the power back to the pastor. more (hugs) I agree. Even they way they tried to tell you that they didn't say what they said ("you read too much into it") shows that the gaslighting has already begun. 7 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Oh boy. It sort of sounds like he expected you to back down and continue to teach anyway. That, coupled with the condemning language you mentioned from the prior email, is very worrying. In the scenario he is describing, where he tells the parents you want their kids to mask, but leaves it up to the parents, you have no authority, and effectively he is not showing you respect by saying "MercyA wants this, but it's really up to you . . ." This does not reflect that he values you or your service. By indicating to the parents that this is your decision and not indicating support, he is not being protective of you and honoring you. This does not sound like a scenario where you are going to feel comfortable week by week that people will be respectful of your very valid belief that masking is important. In fact, it might be a scenario where you will feel provoked by the parents who choose not to mask their children. This is not about you and them. It's unfair to put you in that spot. The leadership is putting you in an untenable position where neither of your choices are pleasant. Clearly you don't want to leave them without a teacher, and clearly they have no intention of truly supporting you. I am sure you love these kids, and the idea of not doing this is very, very difficult. I am SO sorry. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCB Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Mercy they are very wrong. They will have to answer for their actions at some point. I am a Christian and I am so saddened by the response of many Christians to this situation. We should be leading the way in love and concern and service to others and many aren’t. It is one of the hardest things to bear and I feel like one of the hardest things to recover from. My faith is in God and not other Christians but this experience is a great loss and grief. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Mercy, I am sobbing at my computer, hurting for you. I'm so so so sorry. I hope you KNOW, really and truly KNOW, that what they have said is not true. That is not the word of God, that is from the enemy. They are not treating you as a sister in Christ, they are not doing their job of protecting and guiding their flock, and they have shown themselves to be unwilling to do the hard work Christians are called to do. You are NONE Of those things. And for them to speak that way, after you approached them in faith out of care for your fellow man, is a sign that this place is not spiritually healthy. Not now, anyway. I am SO sorry. But I do hope you keep your daughter home. This is not a safe place for her, not physically nor spiritually. I'm grieving with you, dear sister. And I'm praying for you. And I'm praying for all the leaders in our churches (even/especially the ones I am very angry at). But praying for them doesn't mean putting yourself in a position for them to hurt you, in body or soul. 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) . Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Nothing has changed. It is like having an emotionally abusive spouse. One moment there will be flowers. Another moment attack. Another moment you’ll be told it’s all in your mind and you read something in that was not intended. My experience as I think I put way upthread, this type of situation does not end well. The sooner you and your family walk away, the less injured you will be. 12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 And he is sowing discord in his congregation now, but not making a rule about this. That is also unbiblical and another example of his failed leadership. This is not a spiritually healthy place. You are not required by God or anyone to submit to this man's leadership. You ARE required by God to care for your family, and your fellow man. You do that by leaving. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 And I for one, am happy to invite you to my service, virtually this Sunday,and I'm sure others would do the same. Take this Sunday to participate in something totally different, and give yourself a vacation from it all, as it were. You deserve that. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 49 minutes ago, bolt. said: You know what to do. You have already done it. He's just trying to seem wishy-washy enough that you appear to be the one who jumped to unwarranted conclusions. He also is responsible for words like you reported him to have said/written about you personally. These people do not have your back and are not interested in respecting or including you in their decision making processes. You have already resigned. They are just trying to 'call your bluff' in case you are bluffing. You are not. They should not be gathering at all, (and if they do, they should not be unmasked) and you should not be participating or supporting those life-endangering choices. It's a good time to step away, curl up, and let Jesus be Jesus in your life. Jesus is not a building, nor a church of people, nor is he the person of your pastor. Give yourself time. Backbone matters. All of this. ITA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoMom Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I agree it sounds like gaslighting. I would run away, run far away. Even if there was disagreement, how unnecessarily cruel the first email was, and the second? How could anyone read anything else into what was originally said? That is not what leadership looks like, that is what control looks like. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 How could you read something into the email that wasn't there if he literally called you those things?? I'm sorry your pastor is treating you this way. He should be asking for your forgiveness no matter what else happens. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Seasider too said: Your summary is frightening, correct, and 100% the description of someone I know. So very sad to see this dynamic in church. I’ve seen it in a lot of organizations, including church groups. And having the weight of religion (and multiple people) seemingly behind it can make it especially bad. Turning children against their non towing the line parent can be another step. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) . Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 i am so sorry Mercy,. The language they used with you is very unacceptable. I agree with others that this is church abuse and really I didn't say it early but I don't think it is a good idea to have a pastor with a very weak personality. I will be praying for you and your family, Mercy. Leaving a church can be hard. We had to leave a church once because first the pastor decided to move to Seattle to be near his adult children and took a position in a church there. Then the associate pastor was let go because he had inappropriate relations with a woman he was counseling. Then we got an interim pastor who one Sunday early on started ranting about how homeschoolers are awful people and not acting as Christians. I left in the middle of that 'sermon', and we didn't go back but as luck would have it, we found a much better church with an even better pastor than our first one and we joined a great Sunday School class and the kids good classes and programs too. Sometimes, God is just giving us flashing red lights that we need to change churches and we can be stubborn or clueless and end up in a completely untenable situation and just need to make a clean break. And just to mention, the people being hospitalized here in AL are no longer the old. The new risk groups are much younger and we have many people what I presume to be in your age range (that is over 30) who are being hospitalized. Even with those not hospitalized, about 40 to 50 percent have lingering side effects for months- including some from Feb and March who still are having the side effects. I think you are a very kind hearted person MercyA and leaving churches can be quite difficult but I will pray that you find a good church where people aren't using abusive language towards their hard working volunteers. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) It seems their position is you can “require” masks, but students’ families may refuse to comply and leadership does not want children excluded for non Mask wearing. 🤷♀️ Edited July 30, 2020 by Pen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, Pen said: I’ve seen it in a lot of organizations, including church groups. And having the weight of religion (and multiple people) seemingly behind it can make it especially bad. Turning children against their non towing the line parent can be another step. Yes, this,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 3 hours ago, MercyA said: They will not .... And you are none of those things. I hate that you were put in this position. Ironically, aren;t some of them being judgmental of you to say such a thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) . Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 @Ktgrok, you have such a tender heart. Thank you. ❤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) . Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, MercyA said: It was heavily implied, and my husband read it the same way. Well, either way, he should be approaching you for reconciliation, implied, overt, whatever. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) . Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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