My church's response to COVID

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Pen]

 

Will there be negative repercussions towards your daughter because you are taking an unpopular stance? 

 

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, MercyA said:

No, likely not.

 

3 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Not openly or deliberately. It may possibly lead to family friendships being cooled. 😞 

 

Is this a right church congregation  for your family?

 

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Pen]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

Well, that is something we are ...

 

 

My personal experience with such situations is that they do not end well.  I hope your experience will be better.

 

I take it your daughter is in your own  Sunday School class and so there will be masks for that.

Is her Youth group going to be masked? 

 

Is your family all low risk (not that that is something to count on since some people at low risk do have severe illness, but at least it’s a help)?  No one with health issues?  (I thought someone did have health issues, but I get people here confused I know.) 

 

Do you all (nuclear family) have excellent health insurance to cover if anyone is hospitalized? 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Pen

[frogger]

6 hours ago, square_25 said:

Oh, your pastor's reply makes this even harder, doesn't it? 😞 I'm sorry he feels put into such a hard position. I wish he'd have the courage to do the right thing, but as you say, that's always an easy thing to say. 

 

I think all leaders are put into really difficult positions right now. They have to accept that 

A) They won't please everyone. Period.

B) People are pretty much impossible to control and it's often better to have buy in. 

C) Good leadership includes the ability to influence not just make rules.

D) The majority doesn't always equal the loudest voices.

I honestly don't think I could handle being a good leader right now so I'm not going to slam others for not being perfect. Letting them hear encouragement from us to do right is important. Praying for leaders is important too. 

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Pen]

Masks as fashion statement may become s big help for the middle to high school age group!

 

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Pen]

49 minutes ago, MercyA said:

And...now I'm getting pushback from leadership on the mask requirement for my classroom. 

Praying friends, could you please pray that God will resolve this in a way that is best for everyone, whatever that might be? 

Thanks and ❤️.

 

Prayers.

 

Is Sunday 4 days away when your SS class is supposed to happen? 

[Jean in Newcastle]

54 minutes ago, MercyA said:

And...now I'm getting pushback from leadership on the mask requirement for my classroom. 

Praying friends, could you please pray that God will resolve this in a way that is best for everyone, whatever that might be? 

Thanks and ❤️.

Forgive me for asking, but wouldn't that be your cue to respectfully say that you will not be teaching the class?  If I understand your position (which I agree with btw), there is no room for compromise. 

[Carol in Cal.]

58 minutes ago, MercyA said:

And...now I'm getting pushback from leadership on the mask requirement for my classroom. 

Praying friends, could you please pray that God will resolve this in a way that is best for everyone, whatever that might be? 

Thanks and ❤️.

Is this pushback from your pastor, who agreed with you before?

If so, then unfortunately things are playing out as I feared—he is weak and batted around by others.

And you can’t rely on his commitments.

OTOH, if you are just hearing about other people’s objections, that is not unexpected and not really much to worry about.  At least they are not talking about you behind your back in that case.

Either way, it’s time to nicely take a stand.  I still think the church should let the parents know that you’re not going to be letting kids in without masks.  If they are not going to do that, or are not going to let you take that position, then I am afraid you will need to step back for everyone’s safety.  You don’t have to do that angrily.

[ktgrok]

I'm praying. 

Doing the right thing is often hard. 

[Pam in CT]

prayers for resolution

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

And...now I'm getting pushback from leadership on the mask requirement for my classroom. 

Praying friends, could you please pray that God will resolve this in a way that is best for everyone, whatever that might be? 

Thanks and ❤️.

I will pray.

(You and I come from different traditions. In mine, there is space for the possibility that sometimes God actually wants and expects us mortals to step up to the responsibility of discerning and doing the right hard thing. Ourselves. There are Moses moments abetted by miracles, and Esther moments where we have to work out how to DIY.)

(( hugs )) as well as prayers.  I am sorry you are in this hard place.

[G5052]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

And...now I'm getting pushback from leadership on the mask requirement for my classroom. 

Praying friends, could you please pray that God will resolve this in a way that is best for everyone, whatever that might be? 

Thanks and ❤️.

 

Praying for you. I appreciate your willingness to wait on how this will unfold for you.

My church has a big sign on the door that per state order, everyone must wear a mask. The elders sent out an email about masks. But ever since we started meeting again, there's people there who have no good reason not to mask who don't. There are people who take off their masks when they sing or speak. In those first weeks back, there were all kinds of conspiracy theories thrown around about masks and how stupid they are. Of late there have been political comments by the person who does the announcements every Sunday. 

When I go get my allergy shot at my asthma doctor's office, everyone masks. When I go for my PT appointments, everyone masks. Now Wal-Mart and Cosco require masks. When I do my volunteer work, everyone masks.

But not at my church. Not good.

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Harriet Vane]

Bravo to you for taking a stance. Someone's got to. Don't cave in. You can do this.

Are you (scheduled to be) the only teacher in this classroom?

[Spy Car]

3 hours ago, MercyA said:

And...now I'm getting pushback from leadership on the mask requirement for my classroom. 

Praying friends, could you please pray that God will resolve this in a way that is best for everyone, whatever that might be? 

Thanks and ❤️.

You are such a dear person and your decisions (along with your husband) are yours alone, but it is my fervent hope that you both stay home.

This church is putting too many lives at stake. You know this in your heart. Don't be afraid to follow your conscience.

My apologies if I've crossed the line. 

Bill

 

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

So, our county masking mandate was rescinded this morning. It was only in effect for about a week. That was fast. 🙄

The state mandate has a religious exemption if social distancing is in place. (It most decidedly is not, and the exemption is ridiculous. There is nothing germ-repelling about being in church.)

[.]

It boggles the mind that we even have to deal with this.

Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

@Spy Car, you are so kind. No, you definitely didn't cross the line. Thank you.

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[kirstenhill]

MercyA, in terms of being worried about leaving them in a lurch if you quit - Honestly if they don't have some "back up plans" for how to cover people who can't show up, that is a HUGE problem! Not just in terms of infectious disease safety (even in non-covid times, do you want a teacher with a stomach bug or strep throat showing up to teach because they have no one to cover them?), but just in terms of just good planning in general.  I've been both a Sunday school coordinator and a VBS director.  Besides the normal thing of people "calling in" even on the day-of because they or their kid is puking or has a fever, I've had to cover volunteer slots for people getting in car accidents, missing flights home, getting stuck at work or called in to work, cars that won't start...and so on.  Life stuff preventing people from showing up to teach or volunteer.  I always have back ups, and back ups to my back ups (even if that is just me and my husband being ready to jump in if absolutely necessary).   They may not think your reason for quitting is fair, but if in your conscience you think this is best for your/your family's health, then it is a fair reason before God.

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Pen]

 

It sounds like some illness is already spreading at your church.  

Best thing would seem to be for some or all of the symptomatic people to go get tested.  

And quarantine while waiting for results.

 

The situation seems untenable beyond just your SS class. 

[Terabith]

If there were obviously symptomatic people at church last week, I wouldn't feel comfortable going, even if everyone is masked, just because masks aren't foolproof.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I can see why the county backed down on the order.  There are constitutional issues with singling out churches relative to other organizations, and that is weighted differently in different areas.

ALL THE MORE REASON TO BE VERY RESPONSIBLE.

Let's not forget, as Americans we are called on to control ourselves, to use our liberty wisely, and to protect ourselves and each other.  That is a side issue relative to the church issue, which is significant (Love one another, etc.), but it's something to keep in mind if folks start to throw their American freedom into the mix of arguments.  If the church is being given freedom by the state, then all the more this is a time to set a good example of being careful and responsible.  When people show up for church with symptoms, they are not doing this, and that is reason enough protect you and your own family by not going there at all.

Don't be that one.  Don't be the one who was not strong enough to stay safe and keep their family safe from people who are not exercising their liberty responsibly.

Hugs to you.  I know this is very hard.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[Pen]

29 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Just want to be clear that we have never had any fear for my husband, my daughter, or myself, in terms of our health. It is all about not contributing to spread.

 

So there is something that is spreading, whatever it is.  Is the plan of the majority to contribute to herd immunity in the event that it is CV19?  Not to get tested unless forced into it because someone gets sick enough to need a hospital? 

I am confused about your general plan.  

Masks are good when there could be occasional Asymptomatic people present not realizing that they are infectious.  Non Medical grade Masks indoors  are not meant to protect with multiple people with symptoms present.  

Even with masks, if any of those people do have Covid, it sounds like it’s a form of a “Covid party”. 

Even if you aren’t concerned about getting sick for yourself, in the midst of symptomatic people, the masks mentioned in mask thread aren’t protective enough to know you would not become a part of spreading infection.  

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[cintinative]

8 hours ago, MercyA said:

And...now I'm getting pushback from leadership on the mask requirement for my classroom. 

Praying friends, could you please pray that God will resolve this in a way that is best for everyone, whatever that might be? 

Thanks and ❤️.

 

Praying MercyA.  I have been in that position before (different circumstances) and it is SO hard.

ETA: Praying when you get that answer from the leadership that it will give you true clarity and peace about your next steps.  You have been faithful to try to resolve this. Praying that Jesus would give you His rest as you wait upon the next steps. I am sure that must be hard since you are supposed to teach so soon! 

Edited July 30, 2020 by cintinative

[Pen]

34 minutes ago, MercyA said:

@Pen, thanks for the thoughts. 

I just meant that my primary motivation for requiring masks is not fear for myself or my family, but wanting to do the right thing to help slow spread in our community.

I will only be in my classroom, the hallway, the stairwell, not upstairs in the main area at all. The children will be spaced six feet apart as much as possible. We will wear masks. We will use sanitizer. That is all I can do, I believe, and still teach. 

The majority does not have a plan. They are not taking this seriously.

I can't make anyone get tested, alas. 😉 

 

I know you can’t make anyone get tested.  I am just trying to point out that masks in your one SS class are the barest tip of a huge iceberg.

 

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Right?!? I can only do what I can do. 

Our nearest school district just announced that no one is going back in the buildings for now, virtual learning only, because the numbers in our county are so high.

If that is the case, than I can't see how in good conscience you can teach Sunday school. Or your daughter attend. If it isnt' safe to open schools, despite the dire need for childcare, etc....I can't see how it is safe to have Sunday school and youth group. 

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Junie]

Mercy, I would just tell them that you don't feel comfortable teaching.

They need to have a plan.  I mean, if you tested positive for covid tomorrow they wouldn't expect you to teach.  It is their responsibility to figure it out.

[MercyA]

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Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Spy Car]

I just heard Dr Fauci on the news saying that Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee and Kentucky need to brace for the sort of outbreaks that have hit other hot spots.

I may be wrong, but are you in Indiana?

Please stay home. 

Bill

[bolt.]

Even though you have repeatedly said, "I will teach under [x] conditions" -- I can see that it would be unusual to change your mind and still refuse to teach if they come around and say, "Okay, [x] conditions are approved." 

It would be unexpected and uncomfortable for you to say, "Thanks for trying to work with me, but, as you know, our understanding of this disease is changing rapidly. When I was advocating for classes with masks, I meant that, but since then I have changed my mind. I have now come to the conclusion that holding classes at all (even with masks) is unsafe. Thank you for your work on my behalf, and I'm sorry to have made it wasted effort. My decision now is that I will neither teach nor attend classes or worship until the pandemic is more controlled in our area. You have my best wishes, and my apologies. I know I am letting you down, but I need to act in accordance with my conscience. I hope you are able to be understanding and bear with me, and I thank you for your patience,"

But maybe please consider it? I don't think your future-conscience would do well with the hindsight of knowing you didn't do everything possible to refrain from contributing to these outbreaks. You are a person with a strong sense of honour. Don't bend it just to avoid looking like a fool and having to apologize for changing your mind midstream. If you have changed your mind, the best thing to do is to let them know as soon as you feel settled.

[MercyA]

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Edited October 20, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

I love you guys. So much wisdom here.

Edited July 30, 2020 by MercyA

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Oh my. Yes. 

Please listen to Dr Fauci (if not to me ).

Not the time for people to gather indoors--masked or not.

I'm willing to beg.

Bill

 

 

[ktgrok]

So wait...they are closing the schools but lifting the mask mandate?

HOW does that make any sense at all???

[annegables]

1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

Please listen to Dr Fauci (if not to me ).

Not the time for people to gather indoors--masked or not.

I'm willing to beg.

Bill

 

 

If this would make any difference to your pastor, Dr Fauci's boss is Dr Francis Collins, who is head of the NIH. He is also an evangelical Christian and a very thoughtful person. He is very, very pro mask.

[MercyA]

7 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So wait...they are closing the schools but lifting the mask mandate?

HOW does that make any sense at all???

The local doctor (and Public Health Officer) who first enacted and then rescinded the mandate said, in effect, that the statewide mandate is sufficient.

His office had received some threatening phone calls, in addition to complaints. I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I hope not!