Opinion time - is it in bad form to use the word “Nazi” for hyperbole; ie., “Grammar Nazi”

[Ginevra]

Just curious how this hits people. Do you think it’s troubling when people throw around the description of “Nazi” in a joking way, to mean, “someone who is very fanatical about this thing”? Like “Breastfeeding Nazi” or “Grammar Nazi” or “Animal Rights Nazi” or whatever thing? 

I’m kinda curious if this is beginning to be/is fully frowned-upon. I’m American, so I mean particularly in the US, but feel free to share from your culture if it is not the US. 

 

[Moonhawk]

First and only thought:

Soup Nazi.

[happi duck]

I'm not a fan of using serious terms lightly this included.  (others include: stroke, heart attack, ocd, bipolar etc.)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

First and only thought:

Soup Nazi.

I forgot about that! 

[JustEm]

The guy that the soup nazi character was based off of never liked that name.

[Melissa in Australia]

Never heard it used jokingly. 

Many immigrants came to Australia from European countries that were devistated by nazi Germany just after the war 

 both my In laws were German and went to Hitler youth camps. 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Melissa in Australia

[theelfqueen]

It's very common, I blame Seinfeld, and it rubs me completely wrong. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by theelfqueen

[Joker]

I’ve never used it and have never been around someone who does. It’s not funny so I don’t really get how it can be a joke. I know people do it but I really don’t get why. I don’t think I could be friends with someone who thinks it’s a joke.

[marbel]

I know I used to use it, particularly "grammar nazi" but some time ago I started feeling it was inappropriate. I don't know what caused my change in attitude, I don't like it anymore.

[Liz CA]

3 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

First and only thought:

Soup Nazi.

 

That's the first thing that sprang to mind.

I am not offended by it. I do find it somewhat funny how things turn around. Back in the day the "F" word was taboo but this seems to have become acceptable now whereas words like "obese" and "soup/whatever nazi" are considered offensive. 

[Ausmumof3]

I think when I first heard it (wasn’t common here as a kid) it jolted me then it didn’t bother me.  I’m feeling slightly bothered about it now.  I think that’s because there’s an increase in actual neonazi types so it feels more like a real potential thing than a historical thing. 

[Pawz4me]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone IRL use the word that way, and of that I am glad, especially given how troubling the current rise is in extremist, Neo Nazi type groups and leaders. My father served in Europe during WWII. He didn't speak specifically of his war experience, but he talked a lot about the dangers of fascism. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, marbel said:

I know I used to use it, particularly "grammar nazi" but some time ago I started feeling it was inappropriate. I don't know what caused my change in attitude, I don't like it anymore.

That reflects my experience. 

I think, like PPs said, some of my discomfort has come from the rise in actual neo-Nazis. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Liz CA said:

 

That's the first thing that sprang to mind.

I am not offended by it. I do find it somewhat funny how things turn around. Back in the day the "F" word was taboo but this seems to have become acceptable now whereas words like "obese" and "soup/whatever nazi" are considered offensive. 

That is a good point. Language morphs. One time about a year ago, I walked into a Barnes & Nobel and there was a section of New Releases, which seemed to be a collection of books with F*** in the title. I actually looked to the ceiling, expecting to see signage saying, “Books with Swear Words in the Title”. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Quill

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

That reflects my experience. 

I think, like PPs said, some of my discomfort has come from the rise in actual neo-Nazis. 

Yeah, I think that’s pretty much it for me. I was so very far removed from the concept of ACTUAL Nazis that, even though I understood the serious connotation, it didn’t hit me as *truly objectionable any more than other 4-letter words slipping out. These days, I’m much more aware of current day neo-Nazi stuff and their presence in my own area, and the terms have automatically struck themselves from my vocabulary. I’m impressed with my brain, because I have a much harder time consciously censoring other words!

[Momto6inIN]

It doesn't bother me in a clearly joking context like Soup Nazi or Grammar Nazi. But it does bother me when people are compared to Hitler in a political context. I've seen it from both sides and it's infuriating. Conservatives concerned with 2nd amendment rights warning that the Nazi's are coming to take away their guns. Or Rush Limbaugh's feminazis. But liberals do it too, comparing Trump and other Repubs to Hitler. I don't like Trump at all, but he's not rounding up citizens and killing them by the millions, come on.

If we are talking about actual neo-Nazi's who wave the Nazi flag and talk about exterminating groups of people, then obviously the name is appropriate. But way too many people use the term "Nazi" to mean someone they happen to disagree with politically.

[Hannah]

My grandparents were Dutch.  My mother was born in WWII.  The family sheltered a Jewish girl who's parents were deported to Auschwitch.  My grandmother always shuddered when she heard the word Nazi.

[edelweiss]

Using it in a joking way (like Soup Nazi or Grammar Nazi) doesn't bother me at all.  I know that I've referred to myself as a Grammar Nazi several times in the past.  My view has not changed on that, and it still does not bother me at all.

That being said, I don't use it in public anymore because I'm aware that it bothers some people, and I try not to offend anyone, if possible.

 

[Tanaqui]

I have increasingly begun to feel it is inappropriate - probably, as others said upthread, because of the increasing visibility and presence of Nazis in the modern day.

[happi duck]

When I posted earlier I was going to add something about current Nazis but deleted that part out of fear that people would nitpick or try to school me in some way.  I wish I wasn't so fearful of getting dragged here.

Add me to others who think current Nazis make it especially important not to use the term in a lighthearted way.

[happi duck]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

It never bothered me personally, because the historical effects never affected me directly. I stopped using it years ago when I realized that there were people around me who had been directly effected and that “Nazi” would never sound like lighthearted hyperbole to them.

This is the same reason I don't use medical conditions in lighthearted ways.  You never know who might be affected by those types of comments.

[Ausmumof3]

8 minutes ago, happi duck said:

This is the same reason I don't use medical conditions in lighthearted ways.  You never know who might be affected by those types of comments.

yup..: made a dumb comment about being OCD one time to someone who i later realised possibly suffers from it and I wish I could take it back.  I may be wrong about that but I really try not to use that term anymore except in the correct way

[J-rap]

It never really bothered me when people used the word Nazi to describe their teacher or boss or a strict program or whatever (I never used the term myself), although in recent years, it has felt a little more uncomfortable for me to hear.    Using names of serious medical conditions jokingly has always really bothered me a lot ~ like calling someone (even in a light-hearted way) a retard or a palsy, or having a stroke.  

I do think using medical conditions that way is done less these days though...  I think people are more careful now.

[Lanny]

IMO that is extremely bad.  I know that in Germany they do educate the children about the Holocaust, but in many other countries (including the USA?) many of the people who are alive today have never heard of World War 2 or the Holocaust or many other things. No knowledge of history is a bad thing IMO...

[katilac]

 

33 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

yup..: made a dumb comment about being OCD one time to someone who i later realised possibly suffers from it and I wish I could take it back.  I may be wrong about that but I really try not to use that term anymore except in the correct way

If it makes you feel any better, OCD runs rampant in my family, some with official dx and some without. Using the term casually or jokingly doesn't bother any of us, and we do it ourselves. 

Then again, I come from a family where the person who has had a stroke will say, "Are you trying to give me another stroke?" when you annoy them, so my perspective may be skewed. 

[Pam in CT]

I do think the normalization of the term started with Seinfeld's soup. I wonder how he, himself, feels about it.

I dislike the term "lynching" used to describe tough questioning of a black man.  I dislike the term "rape" to describe aggressive business tactics.  I dislike the term "nazi" to mean a person who values order.  

Not "offended" per se.  

But each of these terms has an extremely particular primary meaning, and when they're used casually to describe other far lesser and ordinary irritants, the effect is to erode the power of the language for the real thing. And because I believe our ability to understand things is framed by the language we have to describe it (that is, admittedly, a premise that not everyone shares), I do believe there is an extent to which the normalization of the term "nazi" has, over the long haul, not 1-1, an effect of normalizing nazism itself.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

I do think the normalization of the term started with Seinfeld's soup. I wonder how he, himself, feels about it.

I dislike the term "lynching" used to describe tough questioning of a black man.  I dislike the term "rape" to describe aggressive business tactics.  I dislike the term "nazi" to mean a person who values order.  

Not "offended" per se.  

But each of these terms has an extremely particular primary meaning, and when they're used casually to describe other far lesser and ordinary irritants, the effect is to erode the power of the language for the real thing. And because I believe our ability to understand things is framed by the language we have to describe it (that is, admittedly, a premise that not everyone shares), I do believe there is an extent to which the normalization of the term "nazi" has, over the long haul, not 1-1, an effect of normalizing nazism itself.

I agree with that premise. It is very noticeable the words that are chosen, let’s say by news stations, which are then adopted by the people who follow that news, which then colors how they perceive a particular thing or event. When the BLM protests had begun in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, I noticed this with a “friend” of mine on FB. She never said “protesters.” She always said, “rioters.” So her framing was to view anybody protesting for racial justice as “rioters.” You can bet that colored her views about the whole category of people. 

[Scarlett]

55 minutes ago, Quill said:

I agree with that premise. It is very noticeable the words that are chosen, let’s say by news stations, which are then adopted by the people who follow that news, which then colors how they perceive a particular thing or event. When the BLM protests had begun in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, I noticed this with a “friend” of mine on FB. She never said “protesters.” She always said, “rioters.” So her framing was to view anybody protesting for racial justice as “rioters.” You can bet that colored her views about the whole category of people. 

This is similar ( but in reverse) to what happened in Tulsa in 1921.  A few years ago when I first learned this history ( and I grew up just a few hours from Tulsa) it was referred to as the Tulsa race riots.  As I learned more I became more and more horrified and I guess other people did too because now it is described more accurately as the Tulsa race massacre.  And for the record it was a massacre.  

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

I agree with that premise. It is very noticeable the words that are chosen, let’s say by news stations, which are then adopted by the people who follow that news, which then colors how they perceive a particular thing or event. When the BLM protests had begun in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, I noticed this with a “friend” of mine on FB. She never said “protesters.” She always said, “rioters.” So her framing was to view anybody protesting for racial justice as “rioters.” You can bet that colored her views about the whole category of people. 

protestors march in the street.  maybe shut down traffic and make things inconvienent.

rioters burn, loot, and destroy.  I'm in the Seattle area - they're rioters.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

protestors march in the street.  maybe shut down traffic and make things inconvienent.

rioters burn, loot, and destroy.  I'm in the Seattle area - they're rioters.

I’m sure I know the difference between a protester and a rioter. The problem is when you paint everyone as a “rioter,” however they behave. I don’t know how the statistics work out but those who are destroying property and causing harm represent a small or tiny fraction of the total number of people who have stood for racial justice in a public way. This person I am referring to was labeling all demonstrators for racial justice rioters. I actually don’t think that is merely choosing the wrong word, and I think this divisive word choice comes down from, let’s just say, “the top.” 

Just like in the example @Scarlett posted. Let’s call a wholesale massacre of black people and their livelihoods a “race riot.” That way, people who didn’t see it themselves will think it was just those bad black people screwing up again. 

[gstharr]

I guess I should stop using the term Hitler's Youths for those students who automatically raise their hand anytime the professor starts to pronounce a word beginning with a "w" ( as in who, what, where, when, why)

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m sure I know the difference between a protester and a rioter. The problem is when you paint everyone as a “rioter,” however they behave. I don’t know how the statistics work out but those who are destroying property and causing harm represent a small or tiny fraction of the total number of people who have stood for racial justice in a public way. This person I am referring to was labeling all demonstrators for racial justice rioters. I actually don’t think that is merely choosing the wrong word, and I think this divisive word choice comes down from, let’s just say, “the top.” 

Just like in the example @Scarlett posted. Let’s call a wholesale massacre of black people and their livelihoods a “race riot.” That way, people who didn’t see it themselves will think it was just those bad black people screwing up again. 

any legitimate protestor is stupid to hang out where there are riots going on.  I've been following these - this isn't about george flloyd, this isnt' even about blacks - this is about rioting and insurrection.  the  non-binary genetic female on the FREEWAY in seattle - where they had been protesting for 19 NIGHTS in a row (all dressed in black, with vans parked on the freeway requiring the driver to swerve and they ran out into the lanes) - who died after being hit by a car (driven by a black immigrant refugee who had made  a successful life in a new country)-  wasn't RIOTING for blacks, she was rioting for lgbt rights.

Last night in Portland - a man was stabbed.  he was walking, and being followed by someone from antifa.  it's on twitter, it's ALL on video - the main stream news will not show it. if you've seen the FIRE map of downtown portland - you would know those are not "peaceful" protestors. Bragging about using an acetylene torch to attempt to break through a fence onto government property isn't peaceful protesting.  Using commercial grade fireworks aimed at people, at buildings, ,at other property - those are not protestors - and a legitimate protestor would be a fool to be anywhere in that area.

I've sean peaceful protesters near me in my city (we've also had looters who knew exactly what they wanted from those high end stores.) they stood out there with their signs and waved them at passing motorists.  THEY were peaceful protestors.

 

[Guest]

@gardenmom5, what’s your point? 🤷🏻‍♀️ That there are bad actors does not mean all protestors in the entire country should be called “rioters”. I don’t pretend to know what exactly is going down in Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Chicago - any of these places. I am not there. 

Also, re: “the mainstream news won’t show/tell you this, but...” is a statement that always pings my B.S. detector. There is such a thing as deep fake videos and photoshopped images that are directly meant to gin up fear so “someone” who takes an over-reaching stand in order to boost a faltering public image can rectify a fumbled leadership response on the virus. I am not saying the video you refer to IS a fake. I haven’t investigated it and probably won’t bother. But in today’s world of intentional misinformation and really, really clever technology, I don’t readily believe anything that seems to come from just one source. Actually, my current acid test for news is to see what newspapers in the UK say about something going on here because they usually have no motive to print horsesh!t about the US there. 

 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

the  non-binary genetic female on the FREEWAY in seattle - where they had been protesting for 19 NIGHTS in a row (all dressed in black, with vans parked on the freeway requiring the driver to swerve and they ran out into the lanes) - who died after being hit by a car (driven by a black immigrant refugee who had made  a successful life in a new country)-  wasn't RIOTING for blacks, she was rioting for lgbt rights.

This makes it sound like an accident, as though the driver didn't see the protestors or blockade of vehicles and had to swerve, causing an accident. That's not what happened. The driver wasn't simply driving on the freeway as normal when he encountered a blockade, he deliberately drove the wrong way up a ramp, and you can read the criminal complaint here, which states in part: The driver had to make a "deliberate and sharp right U-turn in order to drive (southbound) on I-5," the document says, adding that "numerous red signs warning that the driver is going the Wrong Way and Do Not Enter" were posted.

You mention the video in the other incident, but there is video of this one also, both of him obviously driving the wrong way on purpose, and of the incident itself. It's extremely clear that he did not hit anyone because a blockade forced him to swerve. 

He was not impaired by alcohol at the time, but drug paraphernalia and what looked like crystal meth were found in his car (substance is being tested). He told his jailers that he would be having withdrawals from Percocet and that he had other addictions. I wouldn't think you'd consider those things indicative of a successful life. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by katilac

[katilac]

To be clear, I don't think that protestors should block the freeway, but that doesn't mean you can drive into them. 

 

35 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

 Last night in Portland - a man was stabbed.  he was walking, and being followed by someone from antifa.  it's on twitter, it's ALL on video - t 

Link? The only video I see is of someone being arrested, and the poster says it was for stabbing someone. This is on Twitter, I see no mention of it anywhere else and I see no commentary that a video of the stabbing exists. 

I don't know why you think the mainstream media wouldn't publish info like this. They've published plenty of footage of rioters. If you think it's because of politics, then why wouldn't Fox News and such report it? 

Again, if having video is important enough to mention in this case, it's important enough to mention in the other case you posted about - there is indeed video, and it is readily available with a google search. 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

 Last night in Portland - a man was stabbed.  he was walking, and being followed by someone from antifa.  it's on twitter, it's ALL on video - the main stream news will not show it. if you've seen the FIRE map of downtown portland - you would know those are not "peaceful" protestors. Bragging about using an acetylene torch to attempt to break through a fence onto government property isn't peaceful protesting.  Using commercial grade fireworks aimed at people, at buildings, ,at other property - those are not protestors - and a legitimate protestor would be a fool to be anywhere in that area.

Okay, I did find it. I'm going to have to see a police report to believe it's real. I watched it so others don't have to 🙃

This is what I saw: 

Someone is conveniently aiming a video camera directly at the space where the two people in question walk up. Someone unseen, it seems to be the person with the camera, says "Someone is stalking us!" The person who gets stabbed (Y) is not being followed, but rather is the one following the other person (Z).  Y claps his hand on Z's shoulder and loudly says, "Hey buddy, where ya going?" (as best I can hear) which seems a strange thing for a reporter to do. Z turns to him and thrusts his hand toward him; I cannot see if he's holding anything. Y staggers back and says, "Ow! Ow!" and the camera guys says, "Did you just stab him? Bro, you just stabbed him, dude! Bro, he just stabbed him!" and repeats variations of this several times, then, "The guy right there! Get him! GET HIM! He stabbed him!" He's not calling 911 or asking anyone else to. After a few more repetitions, you hear someone say something about a hospital. Y walks off, camera guy follows him, eventually someone walks up and says they're a medic and asks if anyone has called 911. I don't hear anyone say yes. The last seconds of the video is the medic holding a small white bandage or gauze against the side of Y, who is still standing. The version I saw cuts off before you can see if any blood comes through the bandage/gauze, and I don't see blood at any point in the video. So, if he was stabbed, he thankfully seems to be pretty much okay. 

I didn't recap every second of video, because it mostly goes on and on with the camera guy saying, he stabbed him, get him, quite a lot. I don't think I left out anything important. If you want to see it yourself, I found it at a site called Freightbroker Live.

Edited July 25, 2020 by katilac

[LucyStoner]

What about people who label anyone they disagree with that as a Nazi?  Where I live, casual or joking use of the term has been off color/considered unacceptable for a long time now.  What I am seeing more is people calling people they disagree with Nazis.  And not just about things that might point to anyone being a Nazi or white nationalist.  

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

What about people who label anyone they disagree with that as a Nazi?  Where I live, casual or joking use of the term has been off color/considered unacceptable for a long time now.  What I am seeing more is people calling people they disagree with Nazis.  And not just about things that might point to anyone being a Nazi or white nationalist.  

 

Yeah. I don’t see that a lot but I do think people do that. I seem to recall that as a feature of the Mommy Wars. 

[kristin0713]

I’ve never liked it or used it. 

[LucyStoner]

5 hours ago, Eliana said:

I'm also in Seattle and I strongly disagree with how you are characterizing the protests here.  The majority of what is happening here is absolutely protesting. You might not notice that from how some news outlets are covering this, but on the ground this is and has been about police brutality and racial inequity. 

I find the way you spoke about Summer offensive. There is no constructive purpose in bringing their gender identity or genitalia into the conversation. And, for the record,  they were very much out there to protest about racial justice & police misconduct. (Not that I think protests for LGBTQ+ rights are less valid, but that's not what Summer was there for, or died for.)

 

Eliana, you and I are in agreement on a lot.  I haven't seen much I would call rioting in Seattle, that's for sure.  But Summer and I graduated from the same school and my perspective is a bit different.  The school we graduated from is small and to a large degree ideologically focused.  A lot of the students there past and present are white people of a certain degree of affluence.  Activism is a big part of the school culture and many of my peers from that school are very dedicated to political activism in a variety of ways.  Activism there is also sometimes for activism's sake and the school has ongoing issues with racism and classism.  

Initially, the marching from the West to the East Precinct in the evenings was a presented as Black women marching for BLM.  Then it was renamed a Black femmes march. The livestreams I saw of the dancing after the marches showed a mostly young, mostly white group. 

Closing the I-5 in rush hour?  That's a protest.  Dancing on I-5 at 1:40 AM during a pandemic when there's no media or any discernible impact?  As a protest, that is highly ineffective at the very best.  In fact, it smacks of having a fun time dancing at 1:40 AM with your friends.  My brother, also an alum of the same high school, pointed out that the people most likely to be impacted in any way at all by this form of protest (dancing on the  freeway in the middle of the night) were essential workers getting off work very late and the people who work for WDOT and the state patrol. 

I don't doubt Summer's commitment to their beliefs and I don't hold them responsible for their own death. It was an absolute tragedy and they didn't deserve to die.  I really don't think it was safe or reasonable for WDOT to be closing down the free way for that purpose.  The young man who killed them shouldn't have driven into them and he, of course, bears responsibility for his horrendous actions.  The outcome here though is that a young person is dead and a young black man from a close knit immigrant community will now be incarcerated for their death, likely for quite a long time.   Drugs or not, whatever his motive or how he got to a place where he took a life, he is nearly as young as Summer and he had a family and his family has now lost him. There's a lot of sadness to both sides of that.  

I do find some of what I am seeing at local protests to be performative and in some cases it feels that white people are co-opting the moment and the movement for their own purposes, some personal and some political.  I think most have the best of intentions, but I've just seen this pattern play out so much. I guess the best I can say is that I have a lot of ambivalence about this overall situation.   

I am also very uncomfortable with the fact that Summer's case is getting so much media attention and I've had to go looking for any meaningful coverage about Antonio Mays and Lorenzo Anderson, the Black teenagers killed at CHOP.  I've found 1-2 articles that give any details about either of them but there are many, many detailed and effusive articles about Summer.  

Edited July 26, 2020 by LucyStoner

[Pam in CT]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yeah. I don’t see that a lot but I do think people do that. I seem to recall that as a feature of the Mommy Wars. 

"Feminazi," specifically, has been around for a very long time, used both broadly and deeply. I've seen it on Fox and I've seen it on these boards.

[SKL]

Voted "Other."  I once used the word years ago online, and someone told me it was offensive to Jewish people, so I have not done that since.

I don't necessarily agree that it is a terrible thing to say, any more than a lot of things people say regularly (like fascist for example), but I can get along just fine without saying it, so I don't.

FTR I have Jewish heritage so I am not an anti-Semite, just don't agree with the power some people give to some words.

Edited July 26, 2020 by SKL

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/11243672

I live about 40 minutes north of this actual neo Nazi. He’s got a larger following now this past year, they were supposed to have a rally in Williamsport last weekend but didn’t get a permit, so they’re planning it elsewhere. He’s also tied to the Boogaloo movement. I don’t think most of us understand the number of people in this country who have this mindset. Joking with offensive words, imo, matters. Comparing actions, words,  etc of world leaders to Hitler’s path to genocide? I understand that, as long as it sticks to comparisons of timelines and not an outright accusation of someone being a Hitler just because.

Thanks for sharing this. While there may be an element of this that has always existed in that part of PA, it's not been something widely accepted, and a lot of people living there don't realize how bad it's getting. I will be sharing this article to help wake people up (I grew up about 40 minutes away also, different direction). I am also upset that this is happening as the area is finally getting more diverse. So sad. 

[lulalu]

Yes, bad form for a joke. I have several friends with grandfathers/fathers who were nazis. So maybe that shapes my view.