Hamilton.....in charge of trading charter at 14?

[Ottakee]

I am late to the game here.  I just watched a Disney+ documentary on Hamilton and the musical.

It struck me at the end, that at 14 Hamilton was in the trading business....and now days, people aren't sure 14 year olds can safely stay home alone for a few hours, handle cooking a meal, or do things like mow the lawn.

Are we stifling our young people?  Expecting far too little from them?

[prairiewindmomma]

Hamilton had been abandoned by his father and his mother had died. He was working to feed himself and his younger brother. 
 

Yes, to some degree we have hobbled our teens but he was precocious and unusual even by the standards of his day. 

[Joker]

...

Edited July 19, 2020 by Joker

[JustEm]

I don't know anyone in person who is uncomfortable with allowing a 14 year old to stay home alone, cook a meal, or mow the lawn.  But I do think in many ways society stifles young kids

[Tap]

I don't see a lot of babied teens. At 14 a lot of current teens have jobs and in some states can even have a daylight only, provisional drivers license. By 16 it is uncommon to see a teen who doesn't have some kind of a job in our area (fast food/babysitting/grocery store etc). My kids could cook a simple meal at 14 (even my 13yo developmentally delayed daughter can do basic cooking now). Daycares only go to 12yo in our area, so by 14 it would be very odd to have a babysitter for a NT 14yo. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the average lifespan in the late 1700 early 1800 was about 40yo. People had to get to work and start living lives young, because there weren't a lot of elders around to do the work for them. With dual enrollment my son started college full time at 15 and was very independent at that age. 

 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the average lifespan in the late 1700 early 1800 was about 40yo. People had to get to work and start living lives young, because there weren't a lot of elders around to do the work for them.

 

The life expectancy at birth was quite low, possibly around 40, because there was a high infant and childhood mortality rate. Many infants died before their first birthday, many of the survivors died before the age of 5, many of those who made it past 5 still didn't make it to adulthood.

However, if you reached the age of 18 alive and well, and didn't die in childbirth, war, or some horrific accident, you were likely to live to your 60s or even 70s. Nobody went "Wow, that dude is 45, he's so old!"

[kiwik]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

 

The life expectancy at birth was quite low, possibly around 40, because there was a high infant and childhood mortality rate. Many infants died before their first birthday, many of the survivors died before the age of 5, many of those who made it past 5 still didn't make it to adulthood.

However, if you reached the age of 18 alive and well, and didn't die in childbirth, war, or some horrific accident, you were likely to live to your 60s or even 70s. Nobody went "Wow, that dude is 45, he's so old!"

Yes.  

But although people started their work life younger they were pretty heavily supervised.  That 13 year old employed as a nanny you often hear about was the most junior member of the nursery staff and wasn't in a position of responsibility for some time.  And had probably had a lot of experience with siblings before starting.

[busymama7]

Yes. Generally 

I see examples around me that make me shudder.  Once a 12 year old boy was up in a small tree with my son when his mom came to pick him up.   She lost her mind and ran over to help him down.  Ok put this foot here and ok be careful ok ok ok come to this branch etc.  I was so embarrassed for him.  Please note that I live in the desert. This was a SMALL tree.  He wasn't more than 10 feet above the ground.  And he was 12!

Then there is getting yelled at for letting my teens climb over and on rock formations  because "Its dangerous!!!"

I have definitely heard from parents who don't want their teens or young adults to have a job so they can concentrate on school.  Ok to some degree but then they support a lavish lifestyle and the kids are spoiled without a good work ethic.   Similar parents don't have the kids do ANY chores. My college kids can tell some doozies of roommates that have never washed a dish or done a load of laundry and do not know how.  

Not everyone is like this of course.  Plenty aren't. But I do see a cultural acceptance extended adolescence and I do not think the teens/young adults are benefiting from this but rather it stunts them.  

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Yes. Generally 

I see examples around me that make me shudder.  Once a 12 year old boy was up in a small tree with my son when his mom came to pick him up.   She lost her mind and ran over to help him down.  Ok put this foot here and ok be careful ok ok ok come to this branch etc.  I was so embarrassed for him.  Please note that I live in the desert. This was a SMALL tree.  He wasn't more than 10 feet above the ground.  And he was 12!

Then there is getting yelled at for letting my teens climb over and on rock formations  because "Its dangerous!!!"

I have definitely heard from parents who don't want their teens or young adults to have a job so they can concentrate on school.  Ok to some degree but then they support a lavish lifestyle and the kids are spoiled without a good work ethic.   Similar parents don't have the kids do ANY chores. My college kids can tell some doozies of roommates that have never washed a dish or done a load of laundry and do not know how.  

Not everyone is like this of course.  Plenty aren't. But I do see a cultural acceptance extended adolescence and I do not think the teens/young adults are benefiting from this but rather it stunts them.  

This is more along the lines of what I often see.  I worked with one young lady (who actually was wonderful and a hard worker as an adult) who had never even used a vacuum....until she was about 23.

Also, as mentioned above with the tree climbing incident, risk taking is thought to be too risky.   

I am not saying we go back to the days where an 8 year could, and sometimes had to, run the house, but I do think that kids/teens can be hard more capable than we give them credited for.

[ktgrok]

Yup. Especially in some homeschool groups. I've posted before how I was the only mom to drop off their child, rather than stay, in a group specifically for teen homeschoolers. They'd meet at the mall and it was a big deal that they had to stay in groups, parents stayed in the food court in case they were needed etc. My son was 16, I wasn't staying at the mall to supervise. I had other stuff to do!

They wouldn't let him stay in the mall by himself at all - like if I was headed back to pick him up, and five minutes out and he was waiting at the entrance to the starbucks, they'd all stand around with him (broad daylight mind you) so he wasn't alone. He was six feet tall! In broad daylight! This wasn't some group rule, it was them just being very worried about leaving a poor helpless kid alone. Sigh. 

And the time that he decided to walk across a section of the parking lot to the fast food place to get a drink while he was waiting for me? Chaos erupted, I was getting text messages, etc...because they were very upset that he'd do that alone!!!! Y'all, it was across a mall parking lot, to a Steak and Shake. He was a teenager!!!!

[SanDiegoMom]

6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

And the time that he decided to walk across a section of the parking lot to the fast food place to get a drink while he was waiting for me? Chaos erupted, I was getting text messages, etc...because they were very upset that he'd do that alone!!!! Y'all, it was across a mall parking lot, to a Steak and Shake. He was a teenager!!!!

Which is crazy since we also tell 16 year olds that they can drive themselves anywhere!

My daughter's friend was going to take the train up to visit my daughter at college -- a two hour trip and then an uber.  Something my daughter has done multiple times. Her mom freaked out and wouldn't let her go because of the rain.  The daughter was 21.  

 

[Ottakee]

1 minute ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

Which is crazy since we also tell 16 year olds that they can drive themselves anywhere!

My daughter's friend was going to take the train up to visit my daughter at college -- a two hour trip and then an uber.  Something my daughter has done multiple times. Her mom freaked out and wouldn't let her go because of the rain.  The daughter was 21.  

 

And at 21, the mom shouldn't be in the position of "letting her go" or not go.  She is an adult.  One that could certainly ask her mom's opinion on the trip, etc. but I can't imagine being told no, I couldn't visit a friend at 21.

Then again, my life was a bit different.  I grew up in a rural, poorer area.  By 11 almost all of the kids were doing some sort of money earning work---picking blueberries 40 hours a week, babysitting, washing vegetables, catching chicken, baling hay, etc.  By 14 we were all putting in 20 hours or so even during the school year at various money earning things.  It was just a way of life as we needed the money.

By 16 most of us had saved enough to buy our own cars, pay our own insurance, etc.  Most of us were buying our own clothes, paying for our own entertainment, helping to support ourselves.  I would just let my mom know where I was headed and when (if) I was coming home that night.  Often I spent the night at my grandparents house in town as it saved a lot of gas money (which I paid for myself).

I guess that is why I am shocked that people are so upset about a 16 year old boy waiting alone for 5 minutes at a mall, crossing the parking lot alone for a snack, etc.  Heck, by 11 my tiny little brother (under 5' tall) was driving a double hay wagon down the road from the fields to the farm.....ALONE. 

[Katy]

Well back then you were a child until the age of 21, even if you never went to school because you needed to work.  And children were the property of their parents, including their labor and/or earnings from that labor.  Even into the 1950's, one of my grandfathers had to get signed permission from his father to marry because he was only 19. When months later he took his wife and they left the family farm there was a huge falling out over it, screaming that they knew they shouldn't have let him get married, he was too young.  They needed his labor.  He wasn't getting paid and his wife was expecting so he needed a job.  When married your parents no longer had a right to keep you at home.  Girls, otoh, were allowed to marry at 18 without their parents permission.

[KathyBC]

Our provincial government attempted to raise the legal working age from 12 to 16 last year.

[sassenach]

13 hours ago, hjffkj said:

I don't know anyone in person who is uncomfortable with allowing a 14 year old to stay home alone, cook a meal, or mow the lawn.  But I do think in many ways society stifles young kids

I know a 16yo who is not allowed to take a walk in her safe neighborhood by herself. It’s not common, but I’ve definitely seen it. 

[KathyBC]

5 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Did they say what the logic was there? 

Quote

B.C. has been the last province that still allowed children as young as 12 to do work that is dangerous to their health and safety.

Quote

The B.C. government is raising the minimum age of workers from 12 years old to 16 years old and says it will better protect the safety of 16 to 18-year-olds in the workplace.

Quote

With these changes we are moving the minimum age from 12 years to 16 years, and yes those who are 14, 15 years can work at light duty, which will be described through regulation later," said Bains

 

[frogger]

Some parents do, some don't. For my family, it's always government restrictions that get in the way. 

 

[Ottakee]

10 minutes ago, frogger said:

Some parents do, some don't. For my family, it's always government restrictions that get in the way. 

 

I do think that for some parents, the fear of CPS or noisy neighbors does make them limit their kids more than they might otherwise do.

[KungFuPanda]

 

14 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I am late to the game here.  I just watched a Disney+ documentary on Hamilton and the musical.

It struck me at the end, that at 14 Hamilton was in the trading business....and now days, people aren't sure 14 year olds can safely stay home alone for a few hours, handle cooking a meal, or do things like mow the lawn.

Are we stifling our young people?  Expecting far too little from them?

I'm the only person I know who is remotely nervous about that stuff, and that's just because my son is in a power wheelchair and has seriously impaired motor functions.  I'm a little uncomfortable doing it, but I still let him stay home alone while I run an errand.  He still cooks with help, but most of the help is getting things to the table where he can reach them. I did joke that his power chair should come with attachments for mowing lawns, vacuuming, etc . . . but nobody was amused but me. 🤒

I'm pretty sure I live in a haven for helicopter parents, but none of the things you mentioned are considered remotely sketchy for 14.  You'll get heated debates if the kid is 8 or nine.

[Mbelle]

Yes, I do think we stifle teens and give them so much school, homework extracurriculur that they have no time to think, but I also think we abused kids back in the day.  It's hard to say  where the line is.  My grandfather was required to work full time after completing 5th grade.  He left the family at 14 and was on his own.  He was married at 17 and my dad was born a year later.  He was married 60+ years.  He was self employeed the rest of his life.  I would say it could have been so much better if he could have been in school and only worked part time.  Not only did he work, his dad planned with a local farmer to give him to the farmer so the family could live rent free in one of his houses.  It was seriously child abuse.  

[freesia]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

I know a 16yo who is not allowed to take a walk in her safe neighborhood by herself. It’s not common, but I’ve definitely seen it. 

One of my callings in life, probably bc I was raised in a city, is telling parents that they can send their 12 year old to the grocery store that is two blocks away for butter instead of bringing all your kids and yes, I let me 16 year old go for a run every morning in our safe area, it’s a worthwhile risk in terms of health gain and independence (particularly for a child who is at home all day.). To their credit, most of the parents I talked to have allowed their children to do it. I think they just needed someone to give them permission bc yes, there is an over protective atmosphere.  I am still baffled though by my friend who lets her 16 year old 5’11 dd drive everywhere, but was uncomfortable having her wait alone at a Subway store for 30 min in a very safe suburb bc she was afraid she’d be abducted. 

But I kinda changed my butter needing friend’s life for the better :-).

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

Which is crazy since we also tell 16 year olds that they can drive themselves anywhere!

My daughter's friend was going to take the train up to visit my daughter at college -- a two hour trip and then an uber.  Something my daughter has done multiple times. Her mom freaked out and wouldn't let her go because of the rain.  The daughter was 21.  

 

Yes! He didn't have a license yet, but he could have! And that's insane, with the 21 year old!

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

And you know what bugs me about this....the idea that a parent felt it was necessary to take on that overprotective role for someone else's kid.

Seriously!

2 hours ago, KathyBC said:

Our provincial government attempted to raise the legal working age from 12 to 16 last year.

It's always been 14 yrs old here. I know because I got my first minimum wage job at a library at 14. I walked or rode my bike, and my parents limited me to 12 hours a week. If my grades slipped I'd have to quit. I bought a leather jacket with my first paycheck, and read erotic novels on my break, lol. My neighborhood now has very few places you could walk/bike to a job , a store, etc. 

1 hour ago, Mbelle said:

Yes, I do think we stifle teens and give them so much school, homework extracurriculur that they have no time to think, but I also think we abused kids back in the day.  It's hard to say  where the line is.  

I agree. There is a middle somewhere. And we skipped over it pretty fast. 

I grew up able to ride my bike 1 mile to the small strip mall that had an ice cream store, hair dresser, pizza place, and convenience store. I think I was 10 when I could go? I'd take my 6 yr old sister, and we'd get ice cream. I rode my bike to school with neighbor kids starting in kindergarten at 5, again about a mile. No one does that now, partly because so many neighborhoods are not set up for that kind of thing to be safe traffic wise. I was riding on neighborhood streets, never crossed any big streets, etc. Now, the only store my kids could get to is across a 6 lane road that has accidents on a monthly basis. No way. 

But I do try to at least send them into a different part of the grocery store to grab something, etc as they get older. Or I'll drive and wait in the car. That kind of thing. And let them ride their bikes around the neighborhood without me, etc. Doesn't have to be all or nothing. 

And I worked as a teen, but it was limited and grades came first. Same in college. I worked, but was expected to balance work and classes. 

9 minutes ago, freesia said:

One of my callings in life, probably bc I was raised in a city, is telling parents that they can send their 12 year old to the grocery store that is two blocks away for butter instead of bringing all your kids and yes, I let me 16 year old go for a run every morning in our safe area, it’s a worthwhile risk in terms of health gain and independence (particularly for a child who is at home all day.). 

We need more neighborhoods like that!

[happi duck]

If I'm with anyone, adult or teen, waiting for a ride I wait with them to chat and so they're not alone.  Or if two of us are locking up church  we wait for each other and walk to our cars together.  I would *not* be freaking out over a teen walking across the parking lot just like I wouldn't freak out if an adult I was waiting with decided to go somewhere else.  

My ya kids take walks and trips without me but, honestly, I am glad they tend toward going together.  I wouldn't freak out but even for myself I prefer two people together.

I figure some people who are extremely cautious have experiences in their past that affect their attitude.

 

[nrbeckking]

Since the age of 12 my son has had a bus pass and could get all over our city. We live in the 7th largest city in the nation. His 11 year old sister also has a bus pass BUT she has restrictions such as she can't go downtown unless meeting up with her brother. That will change now that they aren't going to PS this year but it was something I allowed them both to figure out. They are both confident with public transit now. When my daughter is a bit older the restrictions will loosen and she will be allowed to take herself to the library etc. They are required to keep their phones charged and just let me know when they get  on the bus and when they arrive at their destination. I will say I have not allowed the 11 year old to use the bus after dark alone.

[Jentrovert]

18 minutes ago, happi duck said:

If I'm with anyone, adult or teen, waiting for a ride I wait with them to chat and so they're not alone.  Or if two of us are locking up church  we wait for each other and walk to our cars together.  I would *not* be freaking out over a teen walking across the parking lot just like I wouldn't freak out if an adult I was waiting with decided to go somewhere else.  

My ya kids take walks and trips without me but, honestly, I am glad they tend toward going together.  I wouldn't freak out but even for myself I prefer two people together.

I figure some people who are extremely cautious have experiences in their past that affect their attitude.

 

Yes, or maybe they know things about their children that the people calling them overprotective don't. I think I'd prefer to give individual people the benefit of the doubt.

My feelings are conflicted on this. I mean, I completely agree with the majority of comments here when it comes to kids in general. We are laid back about most things, although I've never lived walking distance to anything, so I can't speak directly to that.

However, if I look to the future, I can see the possibility of restricting a particular kid from a few things that I would have no problem with normally. My reasons might not be that obvious, especially to casual acquaintances.

[Jentrovert]

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

If you, (general you) know something about your kid that says that they need x amount of supervision, that's fine.

What annoys me is when *other* parents decide that *my* kid needs the same level of supervision as their kid, that I am going to use the word overprotective.  It's happened to my kid, although the other parent would have said that since she was already there for her kid, it only make sense to help mine too.  

Yeah, I've had that happen. It usually seems to happen in situations when I'm deliberately letting the kid do something by themselves, for a particular reason. Annoying. 

What I meant earlier was, it's annoying when it happens the other way too. It's not just about me supervising my kid, it's others having opinions about it and taking it on themselves to inform me I can let the kid do something. Being told by an acquaintance that it's really ok for your kid to do something and "you're just being overprotective" is annoying. No, I'm not being overprotective, I know I can't trust this kid in this circumstance, for reasons you (general you) know nothing about.

Most times it's coming from a place of kindness, of course. Still annoying. 😁

[SounderChick]

Yes we do stifle them in general.  We let our 13 and 11 yr old do a lot they can go to the store, the coffee shop, ride the bus to the skating rink.  This not unheard of in my area but it's definitely a minority.  The issue we mainly have is that my ODD wants to make money.  Neighbors will let her shovel driveways, but mowing lawns they get nervous they don't want her hurt. 

She also has very little luck getting babysitting jobs if they know her age.  I've stopped saying her age and instead say middle schooler which seems to help which I don't get since middle schoolers here are as young as 11.  

[Ottakee]

1 hour ago, Dreamergal said:

I may not interpret the tone of the question correctly, but I cannot but get the a sense of awe that comes across that Hamilton was in the trading business at 14 and the question about stifling our young people ? My idea of Hamilton is mostly the musical, wiki and a bit of google.

. Nothing is Hamilton's world is what I want my 13 year old boy to emulate even if his color would not be what it is. I would not want a 14 year old boy of any race in this world to live that life. There are children living those lives now and I do not ever want a child to live that life where they are responsible for themselves at 14.  It's terrible to me. I am glad I live in these times.

You are right, it isn't that I want our kids to go back to having to survive what Hamilton did.  Not at all.  It was just that the mention in the documentary of what he was doing at 14 got me thinking of how little freedom and responsibility some 14 year olds in the US have.   

I think there needs to be a balance here.  My perspective comes from seeing local helicopter parents who don't want to let a 16 year old sit in a car alone while the parent runs into the store for 15 minutes (in not hot temps) or people overly worried about 2 12  year old boys riding bikes to go fishing 1/2 mile away without an adult present.

In so, so many things I think the US has lost a sense of balance.   Just one of my soap boxes for the day....so I hope I didn't offend you.

[Laura Corin]

On 7/19/2020 at 7:39 AM, kiwik said:

Yes.  

But although people started their work life younger they were pretty heavily supervised.  That 13 year old employed as a nanny you often hear about was the most junior member of the nursery staff and wasn't in a position of responsibility for some time.  And had probably had a lot of experience with siblings before starting.

Yes.  Even into the 20th century, there was an expectation that people who went 'into service' or were apprenticed would live in a pseudo-familial society with careful supervision.  I remember reading a novel set in the 1920s where it is described as rather dangerous for a teenager (probably 18 or so) to go and work in a shop rather than going into service, because of the lack of structure and supervision, including moral supervision.

[klmama]

My grandfather apprenticed in the 1920s. He lived with the boss's family and had to get his boss's permission to date.  The girl had to be from a respectable family for him to be allowed to see her.       

[Meriwether]

My 15 year old nephew could pretty much build a house by himself now. The background story is more than I want to type out on my phone, but he has been working like a man since he was about 12. My sister is planning right now to buy him a mill (not a big one like what comes to mind) so that he can cut his own boards. He is going to build himself a kiln. He still does schoolwork, but his heart is in working with his hands.

My 15 year old just started his first job. He doesn't have the same skill set. He doesn't have the same nature as my nephew, nor did he grow up right near my dad to learn. It's okay. He'll be fine.

Overall, I think we do tend to hold kids back too much these days, but every family thinks they are doing what is reasonable (or they would do something else, right?) so I don't see it changing.

[Lady Florida.]

I think it's mixed really. We do tend to infantilize teens to their detriment. I think we need to give them more responsibility and more credit for being able to handle responsibility. OTOH, while being in charge of a trading charter probably wasn't dangerous, many teens used to be allowed to work dangerous jobs even as late as the early-mid 20th century. We've come a long way in protecting underage workers and that's not a bad thing. 

[ktgrok]

I forgot to say, the same woman who was so worried about my son at 16 standing outside the mall entrance by himself in broad daylight - her older son at age 19 hiked the Appalachian trail by himself (part of it). So strange! Can't cross the parking lot to get a milkshake on your own at 16, but can hike in the wilderness for months on your own 3 years later?

[Guest]

On 7/18/2020 at 9:22 PM, Ottakee said:

I am late to the game here.  I just watched a Disney+ documentary on Hamilton and the musical.

It struck me at the end, that at 14 Hamilton was in the trading business....and now days, people aren't sure 14 year olds can safely stay home alone for a few hours, handle cooking a meal, or do things like mow the lawn.

Are we stifling our young people?  Expecting far too little from them?

I had a similar thought years ago when I was watching a documentary (History channel IIRC) on George Washington. I’m probably not quoting this exactly right but he commanded an army unit at age 19. Something of that nature. (I’m not a presidential history buff so I forget what it was exactly.) But that had a big impact on my thinking because, yes, I do know parents who act like their kids can’t do anything until they’re 30 years old. They are “curling” parents - like the sport on ice where the players sweep away every bump in the way - sweeping any obstacle, risk or disappointment from their child’s path.

I decided early on that I was not going to raise my kids that way. It was a big part of why I was eager for my dd to live in a foreign country. 

[klmama]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:41 AM, Ktgrok said:

I forgot to say, the same woman who was so worried about my son at 16 standing outside the mall entrance by himself in broad daylight - her older son at age 19 hiked the Appalachian trail by himself (part of it). So strange! Can't cross the parking lot to get a milkshake on your own at 16, but can hike in the wilderness for months on your own 3 years later?

At 19, I would be surprised if he was asking her permission.  And maybe he might have been doing it to prove to himself that he was really capable after years of not being "allowed" some freedom.

[iamonlyone]

On 7/20/2020 at 12:00 PM, Quill said:

I had a similar thought years ago when I was watching a documentary (History channel IIRC) on George Washington. I’m probably not quoting this exactly right but he commanded an army unit at age 19. Something of that nature. (I’m not a presidential history buff so I forget what it was exactly.) But that had a big impact on my thinking because, yes, I do know parents who act like their kids can’t do anything until they’re 30 years old. They are “curling” parents - like the sport on ice where the players sweep away every bump in the way - sweeping any obstacle, risk or disappointment from their child’s path.

I decided early on that I was not going to raise my kids that way. It was a big part of why I was eager for my dd to live in a foreign country. 

 

What a great description. I am going to remind myself not to be a curling parent! (Somehow it can be more challenging now that mine are young adults than when they were children because the stakes are higher.)

[Laura Corin]

12 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

 It is based on seeing my son in the US, my nephews in the UK and my native country who are far more independent because of how the residential areas are set up and access to a bicycle as a means of transport and walking. My boy only rides his as a means of exercise and walks too only for exercise.

I think you are right about bikes and public transport.  My children in Scotland didn't ride bikes much, because outside our small village in order to get anywhere they would need to get onto a main road that was narrow, twisty and fast (60mph limit, only one lane each way, nowhere along much of its length to pull over to let people pass).  However we do have a bus service.  It's not brilliant: one bus per hour in each direction, linking us to the two nearby towns.  But it was enough so that the children could go into town on their own to meet up with friends, stay out fairly late, catch the last bus home.  The towns themselves were walkable, so that, for example, at about age 12 'Calvin' was able to walk from one activity to another using safe pavements and crossings.

Within our village, the children had freedom to roam into the woods (which are privately owned but have legal public access).  We moved there when 'Hobbes' was eight and he roamed about pretty much from then on.  He got lost once and ended up on the other side of the woods.  He knocked on a door, the householder suggested he play in the garden with her daughter while she phoned me.  When I drove down their lane, I saw the two children bouncing on the trampoline.  It all worked fine.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Laura Corin

[Guest]

7 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

 

What a great description. I am going to remind myself not to be a curling parent! (Somehow it can be more challenging now that mine are young adults than when they were children because the stakes are higher.)

Thank you, but I must defer credit; I saw this description years and years ago by a member on the boards. I have forgotten who the member was, but IIRC, they lived in a northern climate where the sport of curling is well-known. I too thought it was a perfect description. 

And, IKWYM about YAs!