the word obesity is a slur??

[ktgrok]

Yesterday, in a facebook discussion about Covid and risk factors, I was told by two people that no, obesity is not a health risk, it isn not a medical condition, and that th word itself is a slur. And that if I use that word, or believe that fat is a metabolically active substance in our bodies, secreting hormones that can have a detrimental effect on health (my position) that I am a fat shamer and bigot. 

Mind you, I clarified I AM obese. And that I do understand that there is fat shaming in society and in the medical field. And that fat bias is a real problem in medicine. But that I can be against fat bias AND also believe excess fat, particularly visceral fat, has adverse effects on health, from secreting hormones that effect appetite and blood sugar and causing inflammation to just being more wear and tear on the musculoskeletal system. But pretty sure they blocked be, so no reaction to that. I'm just a bigot, and the reason people don't go to doctors. 

I also asked multiple times what word would be preferable, as I truly do try to stop using terms that are offensive to people, and shift my langague in a "when you know better, do better" approach. But they didn't answer, just said I was clinging to my preconceived bias. Given that, I'm not looking to get clarification from them...sigh. But thought maybe the hive would know if this is a wider thing, and if so, if there is another, accepted term?

I'm familiar with the term "people with excess weight" but that doesn't work as a term for the condition itself. 

[Martha in GA]

I thought obesity was a medical term, but maybe they'd prefer to say they have high BMI? I'm just grasping at straws here...

 

[Lanny]

Obesity is, I believe, a medical term. It is one of the extreme high risk factors for many diseases, including Heart Disease.  OP you can find better places to spend your Online time, where people are more intelligent than the 2 people who caused you to come here and begin this thread.   🙂  I remember, many years ago, my DW and I were in a morning class in a very reputable gym. There was a woman who was extremely obese. I remember how cautiously they monitored her, when she was walking in the gym. Not on a treadmill, they had her walking around in circles if my memory is correct. They were I believe very conscious that she was high risk for a heart attack and the M.D. in the gym had given them clear instructions about what she could (hopefully safely) do. 

[Lady Florida.]

It is a medical term that might change because of how it's often used. It wouldn't be the first time. 

The example I'm going to use includes the R word so be warned.

When I was in college, retarded was the educational term used. And there were various degrees of retardation called Educable, Trainable, Severe, and Profound. My degree from Florida State actually says I majored in mental retardation. My early teaching certificates said I was certified to teach "MR K-12". While I studied we learned that idiot, imbecile, and moron were the former terms but were changed because they became slurs. At one point though they were used in both medical and educational settings. And now the word retarded and retard, which were benign descriptive terms during my early teaching years, are slurs. 

So for now, no, obesity is not necessarily slur but it can be used as one. It's still a medical term.  I think we'll eventually have a replacement word because of the connotations that word now has.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[ktgrok]

12 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

It is a medical term that might change because of how it's often used. It wouldn't be the first time. 

The example I'm going to use includes the R word so be warned.

When I was in college, retarded was the educational term used. And there were various degrees of retardation called Educable, Trainable, Severe, and Profound. My degree from Florida State actually says I majored in mental retardation. My early teaching certificates said I was certified to teach "MR K-12". While I studied we learned that idiot, imbecile, and moron were the former terms but were changed because they became slurs. At one point though they were used in both medical and educational settings. And now the word retarded and retard, which were benign descriptive terms during my early teaching years, are slurs. 

So for now, no, obesity is not necessarily slur but it can be used as one. It's still a medical term.  I think we'll eventually have a replacement word because of the connotations that word now has.

That makes sense. Do you know of a word being floated to replace the term obesity? Metabolic Syndrome assumes other components, so that doesn't work. 

[Lady Florida.]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

That makes sense. Do you know of a word being floated to replace the term obesity? Metabolic Syndrome assumes other components, so that doesn't work. 

No, I haven't heard of any but I wouldn't be surprised if we see one in the not too distant future. Who would be the group to come up with one? The medical community? I'm not sure.

[Matryoshka]

4 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

No, I haven't heard of any but I wouldn't be surprised if we see one in the not too distant future. Who would be the group to come up with one? The medical community? I'm not sure.

Sigh.  Isn't 'obesity' the medical term that they came up with to replace 'fat'?  

At some point, any word we use to describe something people don't like can become a 'slur'.  But at the very least, shouldn't a slur be something that's yelled at someone?  I can't imagine middle school kids pointing at someone with excess weight and yelling "obese!".  It's likely to be any one of a zillion other actual slurs...  there needs to be a word that's just a medical descriptor of excess weight, as it does have many, many medical consequences...

[DawnM]

If it isn't a medical term, I need to call my doctor's office and ask them to change my chart.  It says obese on it.  

[BusyMom5]

I keep hoping that with the Coronavirus,  our culture will have a health wake up call and start working on prevention, which includes trying to watch our weight and eating healthy foods in th ed right portion sizes.  For me, I have hit the obese category once, and I decided to loose it- lost 40 lbs and it was hard!  I've kept most of it off- I've gained 7-10lbs over that time, and have had 2 babies since then!  It's been 10 years!  I still weigh more than I would like, and I'm on the border for overweight.   Always am- I think in part is my build.  What I gained was more understanding of how my body works,  how much of each thing I can eat, portion control, and the importance of just daily movement- it doesn't have to be long workouts.  It just has to be something I think about- move my body!  Park further out, do jumping Jack's in the kitchen or squats while I'm cooking.  

For me, the term did have meaning, and it wasnt offensive so much as a wake up that I was unhealthy!  I only get 1 body, and I need to try to keep it as healthy as I can!  So many diseases list obesity as a contributing factor, to pretend it's about looks or fat shaming is a denial of medical science.  It's about long term health, longevity,  daily energy and even mental health.  Being at a healthy weight makes you feel better every single day!  There has been a big push to stop talking about weight, especially with kids.  What I've noticed is that some of my kids need that talk about portion size, exercise and how calories work.  It isnt about shame, it's about teaching them how their body works!  I'm sorry the FB people are in denial that obesity makes you at risk for more diseases- that doesnt make it less true.  

[Excelsior! Academy]

No, it is a medical term.  

 

Fun fact: a college professor of mine liked to include random extra questions on tests.  On one test was a question about offending overweight people.  The correct (offensive) answers included obese.  She had to go back and change grades of those of us that marked it as non-offensive due to it being a medical term.  

Edited July 18, 2020 by Excelsior! Academy

[JustEm]

It is a medical term.  I've never heard it used as a slur.  

[ktgrok]

43 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

No, I haven't heard of any but I wouldn't be surprised if we see one in the not too distant future. Who would be the group to come up with one? The medical community? I'm not sure.

Well, I'd think those saying the term should't be used have an alternative, but that didn't seem to be the case, lol. 

[Matryoshka]

16 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

It is a medical term.  I've never heard it used as a slur.  

 

Just now, Danae said:

I could link you to about a million spots online where it's used as a slur.  

Context and tone matter.  Literally any word can be used as a pejorative if delivered with the right tone.  That doesn't mean that the word can't retain its scientific meaning - we still need words to describe them and when we start making multi-word pretzels to describe something like 'person with excess weight above a certain percentage' it just starts getting silly.   It's still amazing to me that there are so many men named Dick...  apparently they can live with their names also being a common slur, with many colorful variations.  I wonder what will happen to Karen...

[Jean in Newcastle]

You could use the word "adipose".  That too is a medical term. 

[SereneHome]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

It is a medical term that might change because of how it's often used. It wouldn't be the first time. 

The example I'm going to use includes the R word so be warned.

When I was in college, retarded was the educational term used. And there were various degrees of retardation called Educable, Trainable, Severe, and Profound. My degree from Florida State actually says I majored in mental retardation. My early teaching certificates said I was certified to teach "MR K-12". While I studied we learned that idiot, imbecile, and moron were the former terms but were changed because they became slurs. At one point though they were used in both medical and educational settings. And now the word retarded and retard, which were benign descriptive terms during my early teaching years, are slurs. 

So for now, no, obesity is not necessarily slur but it can be used as one. It's still a medical term.  I think we'll eventually have a replacement word because of the connotations that word now has.

I really don't want to derail the thread, but that's what always got me when wording gets changed. If people want to put negative connotations, they will, but we just keep trying to change and change and change words instead of trying to change the mentality

[KathyBC]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

It is a medical term that might change because of how it's often used. It wouldn't be the first time. 

The example I'm going to use includes the R word so be warned.

When I was in college, retarded was the educational term used. And there were various degrees of retardation called Educable, Trainable, Severe, and Profound. My degree from Florida State actually says I majored in mental retardation. My early teaching certificates said I was certified to teach "MR K-12". While I studied we learned that idiot, imbecile, and moron were the former terms but were changed because they became slurs. At one point though they were used in both medical and educational settings. And now the word retarded and retard, which were benign descriptive terms during my early teaching years, are slurs. 

So for now, no, obesity is not necessarily slur but it can be used as one. It's still a medical term.  I think we'll eventually have a replacement word because of the connotations that word now has.

This is what pains me when people try to get others to stop using retarded as a slur - that word is no longer generally used to described people with disabilities. I hear it used in the baking world and as a (usually good-natured) slur, and that's pretty much it. I feel like they need to update their vocabulary to describe valuable people more accurately. 

I don't know that we need to update the term obesity. It still seems accurate and as others have said, any term can be used as a pejorative. Policing language sometimes seems more like attempting to shut down any personal responsibility - a Peter Pan response to avoid maturity?

[ktgrok]

14 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You could use the word "adipose".  That too is a medical term. 

So excess adipose vs obesity?

1 minute ago, KathyBC said:

This is what pains me when people try to get others to stop using retarded as a slur - that word is no longer generally used to described people with disabilities. I hear it used in the baking world and as a (usually good-natured) slur, and that's pretty much it. I feel like they need to update their vocabulary to describe valuable people more accurately. 

I don't know that we need to update the term obesity. It still seems accurate and as others have said, any term can be used as a pejorative. Policing language sometimes seems more like attempting to shut down any personal responsibility - a Peter Pan response to avoid maturity?

The problem isn't the term itself in that instance. The offensive thing is using someones existence or disability as a put down. If it is a slur, that makes that persons' existance or at least their diagnosis a slur, no matter what you call it. Which is what is so offensive. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, Ktgrok said:

So excess adipose vs obesity?

 

Yes.  But I personally do not have a problem with the word Obese.  I am obese.  I know that I am obese.  I am desperately trying to work on that for my health's sake even while not putting myself down.  But if I say to someone that I am obese, people want to jump in to save me from that word. 

[SounderChick]

I am obese and I have never heard it used as a slur.  It doesn't sound like you were using it in any way that could be deemed that.  They just sound like they don't want obesity to be a risk factor and changing the word won't change the risk factors.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don’t think that there will be a single word alternative descriptor of a person that won’t be seen as fat-shaming and pejorative.

I wonder what you’re trying to express exactly, and whether there is a way to describe the fat itself rather than the fat person?

For instance, excess medically harmful fat cells.  Metabolically destructive body cells.  Inflammation-enhancing cells.  Stuff like that.  

One of the points often made in that community is that there are fit people at pretty large sizes, and unfit people at small ones.  There is a lot of truth to that, and it’s important to acknowledge it.  I hasten to add that it is also truth that being severely overweight has inherent health risks, and it’s important to face up to and acknowledge them, too.  

Another frequent point from that community I ENTIRELY endorse is the prevalence of unrealistic models for health and beauty in our society, and the consequent and extreme dissatisfaction with ourselves physically almost no matter what.  My daughter attended an all girls school that sponsored a project to come in and talk about this, and she was STUNNED at the universal self-hatred of all of her peers over their body images.  These were high schoolers, most of them as ideal as they would ever be.  She was so struck by how alien this was to her that she wrote me a thank you note about keeping fashion magazines out of our house.  Now, I’m VERY aware of this issue from my years and years of feminist reading, but still, it’s been really interesting to me how much my own self-image has improved from looking at plus sized clothes online.  They are usually modeled on larger women, thankfully, and after several years of this when I see the twiggy typical fashion sketches they look alien and ugly to me.   I would have thought that I was immune to this kind of influence, but apparently I’m not.  Image norming is a big deal in society, and probably most of the people you are discussing this with are recoiling from it in an extreme way.  

I think people consider all these things and come down into choosing options for themselves that they feel very strongly about, just like with homeschooling or whether to be a SAHM.  And then they tend to express their strong feelings in ways that leave no room for disagreement, and gradually retreat into echo chambers of others who agree with them.  I think that that is unfortunate as you never hear the whole story in an echo chamber.  And you don’t get to know a reasonable range of people in one either.
 

[mathnerd]

It is a medical term, but, it triggers some people (women, in my experience) to be described using that word. It has so many negative connotations that the mere mention of the word makes some people upset, angry, aggressive etc. Needless to say, I never use the word, and I use the phrase "high BMI" or some other equivalent even if I were to give some helpful tips about cooking, eating or exercising.

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

It is a medical term, but, it triggers some people (women, in my experience) to be described using that word. It has so many negative connotations that the mere mention of the word makes some people upset, angry, aggressive etc. Needless to say, I never use the word, and I use the phrase "high BMI" or some other equivalent even if I were to give some helpful tips about cooking, eating or exercising.

Yeah, these people were not okay with BMI or any reference to excess fat cells being detrimental to health in any way. 

7 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m cool with fat or obese. I hate the cutesy terms though, like fluffy or jolly. Heck no to those.

Same. 

[Jentrovert]

7 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m cool with fat or obese. I hate the cutesy terms though, like fluffy or jolly. Heck no to those.

I don't know why, but fat really bothers me. Maybe it just sounds too personal. Obese sounds clinical, not personal. I think also because obese is a term with an actual definite meaning. Fat can be decided by anyone to mean anything.

Totally agree with the cutesy stuff, though. 

[AmandaVT]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You could use the word "adipose".  That too is a medical term. 

That one sounds like a newly discovered dinosaur- Adipose Rex. 🙂 I like it.

14 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m cool with fat or obese. I hate the cutesy terms though, like fluffy or jolly. Heck no to those.

I think I'd throat punch anyone that called me jolly! 

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

2 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

That one sounds like a newly discovered dinosaur- Adipose Rex. 🙂 I like it.

I think I'd throat punch anyone that called me jolly! 

 

 

See, that would tend to disprove the fat/jolly correlation.  I mean, science!

[Katy]

Some fat-acceptance people have taken the idea that being overweight gives some survival advantage to the extreme that being 200 pounds overweight is a survival advantage.  They are deluding themselves but since diets fail they feel powerless and don't want to be reminded of the physics of calories.  Their urge to eat is so much stronger than their urge to control their eating they feel it is abusive to point out that everyone can lose weight if they want to (even if they cannot keep it off without fasting, lifelong restrictions, or surgery).

I'm obese, and I have experienced a few doctors be extremely rude to me about it, even when my rapid weight gain was directly caused by a year on prednisone.  I thought that prednisone permanently changed my set point to about 100 pounds overweight, because no matter how or how much I lose I always bounce back to the same weight.

I will say one thing I've learned recently though...   Those prebiotics I took, the ones that healed my wheat allergy, have also DRASTICALLY changed my experience with food.  Foods I remembered as bliss point foods are mostly disappointing.  I've been craving fish and roasted vegetables and salad (though that also gave me food poisoning).  I've read the science that obese people have different brain responses to junk foods than thin people before, but I'm starting to think it's really all in the gut and the brain reactions are a result of the microbiome.  I know there's been some speculation about that before. 

I've done really well on some diets for short periods of time - during pregnancy I eat perfectly, for example.  But it's never been so EASY to eat well before.  I'm losing weight.  I feel like I can stick to this forever. I'm pretty isolated from everyone but my immediate family for now but when I start seeing people again I don't think it will be honest to say I'm just eating cleaner, more fruits, veggies, and lean proteins.  Because while that's true the biggest change, the thing that changed my food patterns was the probiotics.

I'm thinking of starting the Bright Line Eating program (which is pretty structured and a bit restrictive), and while it seems like it would be easy for me now I don't think I would have been capable of doing it without cheating before the probiotics.

I guess my point is the conversation does need to change somehow, but I don't think the science is there yet to speculate exactly how it's going to change. Somewhere in the microbiome and addictive foods we might find the ability to turn off some people's food compulsions.  When and if we figure that out we may be able to give people back some sense of control over their food and their weight, and then the conversation may be different.

[sassenach]

Both overweight and obese are medical terms. They get used in such an odd way in medical descriptions. "Patient has overweight" "patient has obesity." I think that is to avoid saying the patient is overweight or obese.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

Some fat-acceptance people have taken the idea that being overweight gives some survival advantage to the extreme that being 200 pounds overweight is a survival advantage.  They are deluding themselves but since diets fail they feel powerless and don't want to be reminded of the physics of calories.  Their urge to eat is so much stronger than their urge to control their eating they feel it is abusive to point out that everyone can lose weight if they want to (even if they cannot keep it off without fasting, lifelong restrictions, or surgery).

I'm obese, and I have experienced a few doctors be extremely rude to me about it, even when my rapid weight gain was directly caused by a year on prednisone.  I thought that prednisone permanently changed my set point to about 100 pounds overweight, because no matter how or how much I lose I always bounce back to the same weight.

I will say one thing I've learned recently though...   Those prebiotics I took, the ones that healed my wheat allergy, have also DRASTICALLY changed my experience with food.  Foods I remembered as bliss point foods are mostly disappointing.  I've been craving fish and roasted vegetables and salad (though that also gave me food poisoning).  I've read the science that obese people have different brain responses to junk foods than thin people before, but I'm starting to think it's really all in the gut and the brain reactions are a result of the microbiome.  I know there's been some speculation about that before. 

I've done really well on some diets for short periods of time - during pregnancy I eat perfectly, for example.  But it's never been so EASY to eat well before.  I'm losing weight.  I feel like I can stick to this forever. I'm pretty isolated from everyone but my immediate family for now but when I start seeing people again I don't think it will be honest to say I'm just eating cleaner, more fruits, veggies, and lean proteins.  Because while that's true the biggest change, the thing that changed my food patterns was the probiotics.

I'm thinking of starting the Bright Line Eating program (which is pretty structured and a bit restrictive), and while it seems like it would be easy for me now I don't think I would have been capable of doing it without cheating before the probiotics.

I guess my point is the conversation does need to change somehow, but I don't think the science is there yet to speculate exactly how it's going to change. Somewhere in the microbiome and addictive foods we might find the ability to turn off some people's food compulsions.  When and if we figure that out we may be able to give people back some sense of control over their food and their weight, and then the conversation may be different.

I kind of think this, too.  I think that the gut issues around obesity tendencies are just beginning to be understood, and that at some point there will be a safe method of fecal transplant that makes people deal with food healthily.  

I can’t say that I have had that kind of reaction to probiotics though, at least not the ones I have taken.  What kind are you using?  Are they very specific to the wheat allergy issue?

[Carol in Cal.]

2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Both overweight and obese are medical terms. They get used in such an odd way in medical descriptions. "Patient has overweight" "patient has obesity." I think that is to avoid saying the patient is overweight or obese.

 

I had a medical diagnosis of obesity and my doctor never told me this.  I accidentally saw it on my chart.  I thought that that was really strange.

[Pawz4me]

3 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Both overweight and obese are medical terms. They get used in such an odd way in medical descriptions. "Patient has overweight" "patient has obesity." I think that is to avoid saying the patient is overweight or obese.

 

It's called person first language. I *think* it started among those on the spectrum, or at least that's the first reference to it that I'm aware of. I'm not particularly a fan (neither is DS, who is on the spectrum), but it's something that some people feel very strongly about. Which is their right, of course. But they try to force it on everyone.

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I kind of think this, too.  I think that the gut issues around obesity tendencies are just beginning to be understood, and that at some point there will be a safe method of fecal transplant that makes people deal with food healthily.  

I can’t say that I have had that kind of reaction to probiotics though, at least not the ones I have taken.  What kind are you using?  Are they very specific to the wheat allergy issue?

 

I took four courses (6 days long each) of Elixa Probiotic after someone here said she'd developed a wheat allergy from antibiotics as an adult and Elixa fixed it for her. I googled them, ordered from their website, and had a tablespoon of potato starch mixed into some greek yogurt every morning after taking them on an empty stomach. Afterwards I tried wheat really slowly, and my 15 year severe allergy is gone.  I went a bit crazy trying foods I missed, but none of them were very good.  I still have a weird compulsion to eat too much sugar though.  I hesitate to call it a binge because when I've read medical descriptions of binge eating it's nowhere near that severe, and my weight has been pretty stable for years, but I definitely still don't feel the ability to eat like, the two bites of cookie I want and walk away.  I'm still much more likely to have six oreos than two bites.

[math teacher]

24 minutes ago, Katy said:

Some fat-acceptance people have taken the idea that being overweight gives some survival advantage to the extreme that being 200 pounds overweight is a survival advantage.  They are deluding themselves but since diets fail they feel powerless and don't want to be reminded of the physics of calories.  Their urge to eat is so much stronger than their urge to control their eating they feel it is abusive to point out that everyone can lose weight if they want to (even if they cannot keep it off without fasting, lifelong restrictions, or surgery).

I'm obese, and I have experienced a few doctors be extremely rude to me about it, even when my rapid weight gain was directly caused by a year on prednisone.  I thought that prednisone permanently changed my set point to about 100 pounds overweight, because no matter how or how much I lose I always bounce back to the same weight.

I will say one thing I've learned recently though...   Those prebiotics I took, the ones that healed my wheat allergy, have also DRASTICALLY changed my experience with food.  Foods I remembered as bliss point foods are mostly disappointing.  I've been craving fish and roasted vegetables and salad (though that also gave me food poisoning).  I've read the science that obese people have different brain responses to junk foods than thin people before, but I'm starting to think it's really all in the gut and the brain reactions are a result of the microbiome.  I know there's been some speculation about that before. 

I've done really well on some diets for short periods of time - during pregnancy I eat perfectly, for example.  But it's never been so EASY to eat well before.  I'm losing weight.  I feel like I can stick to this forever. I'm pretty isolated from everyone but my immediate family for now but when I start seeing people again I don't think it will be honest to say I'm just eating cleaner, more fruits, veggies, and lean proteins.  Because while that's true the biggest change, the thing that changed my food patterns was the probiotics.

I'm thinking of starting the Bright Line Eating program (which is pretty structured and a bit restrictive), and while it seems like it would be easy for me now I don't think I would have been capable of doing it without cheating before the probiotics.

I guess my point is the conversation does need to change somehow, but I don't think the science is there yet to speculate exactly how it's going to change. Somewhere in the microbiome and addictive foods we might find the ability to turn off some people's food compulsions.  When and if we figure that out we may be able to give people back some sense of control over their food and their weight, and then the conversation may be different.

Would you be willing to share what you took?

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You could use the word "adipose".  That too is a medical term. 

It's a medical term, but it means something different.  It's a term for fat, the substance, not referring to any excess thereof.  So, we currently have BMIs of 'overweight', 'obese', and 'morbidly obese'.  If 'overweight' is not actually a slur yet and we can keep that, then the latter two would be, what?  'Too much adipose' and 'really way too much adipose'?

[Matryoshka]

5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

But you’d have to add qualifiers. 

Excess adipose

adequate adipose

insufficient adipose

diseased adipose

We risk having all kinds of adjectives villainized when a simple term already exists. I understand Lady Florida’s post above, but when it come to unhealthy excess weight, it just seems rather silly to me to deny significant health issues over what word one uses to label it. 

LOL, we were posting at the same time!

[sassenach]

50 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

It's called person first language. I *think* it started among those on the spectrum, or at least that's the first reference to it that I'm aware of. I'm not particularly a fan (neither is DS, who is on the spectrum), but it's something that some people feel very strongly about. Which is their right, of course. But they try to force it on everyone.

As the mom of a kid with CP, I don't mind it at all. Just makes for some awkward phrasing when you're charting.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Some fat-acceptance people have taken the idea that being overweight gives some survival advantage to the extreme that being 200 pounds overweight is a survival advantage.  They are deluding themselves but since diets fail they feel powerless and don't want to be reminded of the physics of calories.  Their urge to eat is so much stronger than their urge to control their eating they feel it is abusive to point out that everyone can lose weight if they want to (even if they cannot keep it off without fasting, lifelong restrictions, or surgery).

 

And what is sad or frustrating or something to me, is that that compulsion to eat more is part of the reason obesity is considered a disease, not just a scale measurement or something. That excess adipose tissue is bioactive, and secretes things that cause increased appetite, mess with insulin sensitivity, etc! To me, seeing it as a disease was helpful. 

Now if someone is shaming someone for being obese, i find that terrible. It IS nearly impossible for many to lose weight, and it is NOT a moral failing, etc etc. 

But that doesn't mean that the fat isn't actually doing stuff medically. Sigh. 

 

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I find it so bizarre.  I mean I don’t want to fat shame but there’s a point where you’ve got to recognize the health risks. I asked around on Facebook groups In November about losing weight when I was about 190 and had just been diagnosed with terrible fatty liver disease; my liver was huge.  Omg all the people who were like be proud of your weight! Don’t buy into society’s messages!

Well, okay, but I feel a lot better now that I’ve dropped over 50 pounds, my liver enzymes are normal, my sleep apnea is gone and my type 1.5 diabetes is controlled, thank you. It’s not just about looks and society; I feel like a new person.

 

And I do think that people who THINK they are healthy at high BMIs are perhaps...not as healthy as they think. 1. it is just a fact that carrying more weight is a strain on muscles, tendons, joints, etc. It just IS. 2. It makes the heart and lungs work harder. 3. Thinks like fatty liver disease are often not caught until severe. I had stellar labwork when I was morbidly obese. Excellent cholesterol with low bad cholesterol and triglycerides and high good cholesterol, excellent blood pressure, all liver enzymes normal, blood glucose perfect, A1C good, etc. But on ultrasound they found I had fatty liver disease! It just hadn't progressed to the point of being picked up on labwork yet. 

And that doesn't even take into account back pack from balancing out a bigger abdomen, etc. 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Math teacher said:

Would you be willing to share what you took?

 

I answered that just above your post, but in case you didn't see it, it was Elixa probiotics.

[mom2scouts]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Some fat-acceptance people have taken the idea that being overweight gives some survival advantage to the extreme that being 200 pounds overweight is a survival advantage.  They are deluding themselves but since diets fail they feel powerless and don't want to be reminded of the physics of calories.  Their urge to eat is so much stronger than their urge to control their eating they feel it is abusive to point out that everyone can lose weight if they want to (even if they cannot keep it off without fasting, lifelong restrictions, or surgery).

I'm obese, and I have experienced a few doctors be extremely rude to me about it, even when my rapid weight gain was directly caused by a year on prednisone.  I thought that prednisone permanently changed my set point to about 100 pounds overweight, because no matter how or how much I lose I always bounce back to the same weight.

 

Interesting. I was underweight for most of my young life. I was made fun of as a teen, teachers thought I was anorexic, and I couldn't gain weight. Besides the normal weight gain of being more sedentary in adulthood, many pregnancies with large babies, a sweet tooth, and the weight gain of menopause, I spent years on prednisone and gained a ton of weight that I have not been able to lose. I'm probably 70-80 pounds overweight now and I've always wondered if those years on prednisone had some long lasting effect or if it's just that I gained a lot of weight quickly and now it's just hard to take it off.

[Lady Florida.]

4 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

 

Context and tone matter.  Literally any word can be used as a pejorative if delivered with the right tone.  That doesn't mean that the word can't retain its scientific meaning - we still need words to describe them and when we start making multi-word pretzels to describe something like 'person with excess weight above a certain percentage' it just starts getting silly.   It's still amazing to me that there are so many men named Dick...  apparently they can live with their names also being a common slur, with many colorful variations.  I wonder what will happen to Karen...

 

4 hours ago, SereneHome said:

I really don't want to derail the thread, but that's what always got me when wording gets changed. If people want to put negative connotations, they will, but we just keep trying to change and change and change words instead of trying to change the mentality

I don't disagree with either of the above posts but we (general we) have no real control over such things. It's going to be up to the professionals who use any word that becomes a perjorative whether it's worth fighting for or just changing. We can of course try to change the general mentality but there will always be people who not only won't change, but will pass their mentality to their children (some of whom will accept it and some will reject it). 

[Lady Florida.]

I cannot see the word adipose without thinking of Doctor Who. 😄 

[Rosie_0801]

16 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

I cannot see the word adipose without thinking of Doctor Who. 😄 

 

Totally off topic, I'm beginning to think Clara's splintering throughout history story line is based of Ruth Bader Ginsberg and I've really needed to tell somebody that for weeks.

[Lady Florida.]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Totally off topic, I'm beginning to think Clara's splintering throughout history story line is based of Ruth Bader Ginsberg and I've really needed to tell somebody that for weeks.

❤️❤️❤️ 

[math teacher]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

I answered that just above your post, but in case you didn't see it, it was Elixa probiotics.

Thanks!! I guess I was reading too fast.

[wathe]

5 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So excess adipose vs obesity?

The problem isn't the term itself in that instance. The offensive thing is using someones existence or disability as a put down. If it is a slur, that makes that persons' existance or at least their diagnosis a slur, no matter what you call it. Which is what is so offensive. 

Linguistically excess adiposity, or excess adipose tissue.

Adipose is an adjective, adiposity is the noun (similar to obese and obesity).

Adipose tissue means fat tissue.  It describes literal body fat, not a medical condition or syndrome.

Obese/obesity describes a medical condition, in which one has too much adipose tissue.

[Ausmumof3]

DH uses term morbidly obese as a descriptive terms and it’s generally in a negative way.  Obese definitely has negative connotations for me even though I am.  I don’t think the language needs to change though it’s the mindset.  (That it’s purely a choice Or a sign of laziness or poor character) Changing medical language seems kind of dumb.  

[KathyBC]

8 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

 

Context and tone matter.  Literally any word can be used as a pejorative if delivered with the right tone.  That doesn't mean that the word can't retain its scientific meaning - we still need words to describe them and when we start making multi-word pretzels to describe something like 'person with excess weight above a certain percentage' it just starts getting silly.   It's still amazing to me that there are so many men named Dick...  apparently they can live with their names also being a common slur, with many colorful variations.  I wonder what will happen to Karen...

 

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So excess adipose vs obesity?

The problem isn't the term itself in that instance. The offensive thing is using someones existence or disability as a put down. If it is a slur, that makes that persons' existance or at least their diagnosis a slur, no matter what you call it. Which is what is so offensive. 

Yes, context and tone matter. Since you were clearly both using the word correctly and not intending a put-down, the problem lies with those posters' perceptions.
I worry that a very very small group with very loud voices (I mean really, who wants to be seen as intentionally hurting people?) are causing the rest of us endless tail-chasing.

[Carrie12345]

I can’t mask the accurate fact that I’m fat.  I don’t particularly want people talking about my fat, and would be uncomfortable if conversation suddenly turned to “You know, people who carry fat primarily in their middle region...” Because that’s just rude out of nowhere. But, if I’m purposely entering a conversation about “my people”, uh, yeah, that’s a bunch of fat we’re talking about,  And mine has been known to tip into the obese category when being weighed fully clothed in the late afternoon. 😛 My discomfort isn’t due to word choice; it’s due to my relationship with my body and confronting that.  

In my house, when we see or have something over the top sugary, someone is bound to exclaim “Diabeetus!!!” That’s probably way less considerate of a legitimate medical condition (and regional dialect, to boot) than using the term obesity in genuine context.

[Lady Florida.]

20 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m cool with fat or obese. I hate the cutesy terms though, like fluffy or jolly. Heck no to those.

Or the one my grandmother used to use about one of my aunts (she was actually trying to be nice) - heavy set.

[Pen]

Traditionally built