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This is how it keeps spreading!


ktgrok
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So, I was complaining that a school district in Georgia has told teachers that if they are exposed to a known positive case they do not need to isolate. Only if they get tested and are positive. 

And a friend, who is a social worker at a large university teaching hospital in Florida, said it is the same for healthcare workers! She said: "Healthcare workers here with known exposure are to continue working with a mask, get tested, and only have to quarantine if their test comes back positive. It mystifies. At least they have updated it that if the exposure lives and remains in your home, you must quarantine until they are negative or 10 days from symptoms."

So if you spend the day with a friend who is positive, you can keep working, but if you live with them you cannot. And that's healthcare people who should know better! And neither their advice, not the school's, say you have to get tested yourself!

And we wonder why we have uncontrolled spread here!!! It's like everyone thinks that as long as you don't have a test result to prove it, you don't have it!

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4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

So, I was complaining that a school district in Georgia has told teachers that if they are exposed to a known positive case they do not need to isolate. Only if they get tested and are positive. 

And a friend, who is a social worker at a large university teaching hospital in Florida, said it is the same for healthcare workers! She said: "Healthcare workers here with known exposure are to continue working with a mask, get tested, and only have to quarantine if their test comes back positive. It mystifies. At least they have updated it that if the exposure lives and remains in your home, you must quarantine until they are negative or 10 days from symptoms."

So if you spend the day with a friend who is positive, you can keep working, but if you live with them you cannot. And that's healthcare people who should know better! And neither their advice, not the school's, say you have to get tested yourself!

And we wonder why we have uncontrolled spread here!!! It's like everyone thinks that as long as you don't have a test result to prove it, you don't have it!

I agree! There is so much discrepancy in testing and policies still. I have a coworker who had a bad headache, dizziness and cough/cold symptoms last week. He went to the doctor and asked for a COVID-19 test. When he went in, he didn't have a fever so the doctor refused the test. The worker has only a few sick leave hours left, so he had to return to work. We work in healthcare, in a patient care area, in a close environment. 😞 If he does have it, we all probably have it now.  A test is so easy to do!! We have plenty in our area. There is a lot of documentation that shows not everyone has a fever. The consequences are so high if we do  all get sick, and  a doctor should understand the risk of him spreading it to patients and each other. 

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2 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

it does say ASSY,PTOMATIC and home if SICK. 

Right, they should keep working until they develop symptoms. Considering what we know about asymptomatic spread this seems like horrible advice. But what do I know?

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4 minutes ago, TracyP said:

I'm not defending it, but this has been the CDC guidance since the beginning. Critical workers should continue working even if they have been exposed to a positive case.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/critical-workers/implementing-safety-practices.html

Wow. That is dumb. We know asymptomatic people can spread it! And if it is okay for a maybe positive person to work around vulnerable people as long as they wear a mask, does that mean they think it is okay for KNOWN positive people to work around vulnerable people as long as thy wear a mask? I don't think so! Although in this crazy universe, who knows. 

Again, guess it is easy to see why we can't get this under control!

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20 minutes ago, TracyP said:

I'm not defending it, but this has been the CDC guidance since the beginning. Critical workers should continue working even if they have been exposed to a positive case.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/critical-workers/implementing-safety-practices.html

This is how it works in my EMS system. At one point we had a quarter of the medics out on quarantine. Of those, a third tested positive. All of the third were symptomatic and several had to be hospitalized for couple of days.

The rest of us were working well over the 96 hour/week limit in order to keep the trucks staffed and we had to shut down one truck for a couple of weeks.

Like it or not, the CDC guidelines for HCW are designed to mitigate worker shortages in the one area where sustained shortages would be horrific. The guidelines also assume every HCW will at least be wearing eye protection, a surgical mask, and, of course, gloves. 

Edited by brehon
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1 minute ago, brehon said:

This is how it works in my EMS system. At one point we had a quarter of the medics out on quarantine. Of those, a third tested positive. All of the third were symptomatic and several had to be hospitalized for couple of days.

The rest of us were working well over the 96 hour/week limit in order to keep the trucks staffed and we had to shut down one truck for a couple of weeks.

Like it or not, the CDC guidelines for HCW are designed to mitigate worker shortages in the one area where sustained shortages would be horrific. The guidelines also assume every HCW will at least be wearing eye protection and a surgical mask. 

In an absolute, no other choice, emergency I can see this. As standard operating procedure, it seems like bad guidance to me.

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Yep. Insane. Friend of mine was called by a client that she had interacted with the day before. Client had tested positive that morning. Friend called two different testing places. First one wouldn't test her because she wasn't a patient if theirs. (I.e., she doesn't go to one of their doctors. Standard practice for just about everything in that town. Grr!) Second place said they don't do "exposure testing" but if her regular doctor wrote her a test request script, they would do the test in 5 days (to give it a chance to 'set in').

She owns her own service -based business!!! Anyway, she finally was able to get an appointment with the state's testing program for Monday (5 days from exposure--first opening she could find that was reasonably close).

And all her clients she interacted with post-exposure (and her dh who also works in a service business) are left hanging until her results come back.

And no one has contacted her yet (other than her client) as far as contact tracing either. And we are in a low spread area. Although I'm starting to think that it is because no one is getting tested!

Edited by RootAnn
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15 minutes ago, TracyP said:

In an absolute, no other choice, emergency I can see this. As standard operating procedure, it seems like bad guidance to me.

Oh, me, too! No one (who actually works in the field) likes it. And the CDC just tightened its guidelines so that basically no medic (or presumably any HCW) will qualify for worker’s comp if they become infected at work. Or, at least, it has just become much harder to qualify for worker’s comp. The default is now that you couldn’t have been exposed at work if you used the bare minimum protection unless there was a breach. There aren’t  any polite words I can say about that. 

Edited by brehon
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2 minutes ago, brehon said:

Oh, me, too! No one (who actually works in the field) likes it. And the CDC just tightened its guidelines so that basically no medic (or presumably any HCW) will qualify for worker’s comp if they become infected at work. Or, at least, it has just become much harder to qualify for worker’s comp. The default is now that you couldn’t have been exposed at work if you used the bare minimum protection unless there was a breach. There aren’t  any polite words I can say about that. 

Ugh, that's infuriating!

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4 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

I have a family full of nurses and doctors.  They are exposed to horrible things every day.  Things worse than covid-19.  If they all quarantined every time they had a patient with something, there wouldn't be any nurses or doctors at work.  They would all be at home.  lol

My sister is a NP and has worked in clinics throughout this entire pandemic.  She is exposed daily to all kinds of things.  

But to be clear, the CDC is specifically talking about having a household member test positive - a situation where your odds of becoming infected are far higher than a healthcare worker on the job taking precautions. They are then being told to go ahead and go to work where they could infect others. And this guideline is for all critical workers which is a very broad term.

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39 minutes ago, brehon said:

This is how it works in my EMS system. At one point we had a quarter of the medics out on quarantine. Of those, a third tested positive. All of the third were symptomatic and several had to be hospitalized for couple of days.

The rest of us were working well over the 96 hour/week limit in order to keep the trucks staffed and we had to shut down one truck for a couple of weeks.

Like it or not, the CDC guidelines for HCW are designed to mitigate worker shortages in the one area where sustained shortages would be horrific. The guidelines also assume every HCW will at least be wearing eye protection, a surgical mask, and, of course, gloves. 

Ugh, I get it if there is no other choice, but it's going to lead to more spread. 

15 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

I have a family full of nurses and doctors.  They are exposed to horrible things every day.  Things worse than covid-19.  I

Can I ask, what are they exposed to every day that is this contagious, this dangerous, and has no vaccine or significant treatment?

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4 minutes ago, TracyP said:

But to be clear, the CDC is specifically talking about having a household member test positive - a situation where your odds of becoming infected are far higher than a healthcare worker on the job taking precautions. They are then being told to go ahead and go to work where they could infect others. And this guideline is for all critical workers which is a very broad term.

 

I think she was addressing the OP.  I too have a family of medical professionals (I am not one of them! HA!). They can't quarantine every time a Covid patient comes in and gets near them.  

 

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43 minutes ago, brehon said:

This is how it works in my EMS system. At one point we had a quarter of the medics out on quarantine. Of those, a third tested positive. All of the third were symptomatic and several had to be hospitalized for couple of days.

The rest of us were working well over the 96 hour/week limit in order to keep the trucks staffed and we had to shut down one truck for a couple of weeks.

Like it or not, the CDC guidelines for HCW are designed to mitigate worker shortages in the one area where sustained shortages would be horrific. The guidelines also assume every HCW will at least be wearing eye protection, a surgical mask, and, of course, gloves. 

Same.  HCW are in short supply.  We're in PPE, thus risk of spreading is thought to be minimal.  If HCW had to do a 14 quarantine for every exposure, there wouldn't be anyone left to work.

 

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5 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

I think she was addressing the OP.  I too have a family of medical professionals (I am not one of them! HA!). They can't quarantine every time a Covid patient comes in and gets near them.  

 

Oh - no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about an exposure without PPE. A doctor who is treating a patient, both wearing masks, etc and limiting time in the room is very different than say, finding out that your neighbor that you hung out with in the kitchen with no masks drinking wine for an hour has it. 

And for schools, the kids will NOT all be masked, even though they are supposed to be. And the teacher will have to take her mask off during the day to drink water, eat lunch. So will the kids. So multiple times during the day where they will be in the same room without masks on . And they will be in the same room for 6 hours a day, every day. Different from a doctor that spent 10 minutes with a patient, all of it with PPE. 

Edited by Ktgrok
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4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh - no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about an exposure without PPE. A doctor who is treating a patient, both wearing masks, etc and limiting time in the room is very different than say, finding out that your neighbor that you hung out with in the kitchen with no masks drinking wine for an hour has it. 

And for schools, the kids will NOT all be masked, even though they are supposed to be. And the teacher will have to take her mask off during the day to drink water, eat lunch. So will the kids. So multiple times during the day where they will be in the same room without masks on . And they will be in the same room for 6 hours a day, every day. Different from a doctor that spent 10 minutes with a patient, all of it with PPE. 

 

Oh, I don't think schools should open in our area and I think we are going to have to go back to Phase 1 to stop the spread.  But apparently people don't agree with me.

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24 minutes ago, TracyP said:

But to be clear, the CDC is specifically talking about having a household member test positive - a situation where your odds of becoming infected are far higher than a healthcare worker on the job taking precautions. They are then being told to go ahead and go to work where they could infect others. And this guideline is for all critical workers which is a very broad term.

Truth

Dh is getting tested at his hospital right now. I’m sitting in the parking lot. He started showing symptoms yesterday morning. It started out with a headache and by the evening he had 103.6 fever, numbness in his hand, foggy brain. He woke up and his fever broke but he couldn’t even taste his toothpaste. All of the staff he’s talked to have said yup, he has it. It’s not until they show symptoms that they get tested and even then, it’s not necessary if you have the obvious signs. The only reason dh is getting one of the few rapid tests they have on hand is because he was in a bunch of meetings this week with the C-Suite and heads of departments. They’d all like to know. 

I don’t need to get tested if he does. I can pretty much assume the whole family has it and act accordingly. Ds already notified his work. Luckily he’s been off for the past 3 days. Dh should get his results back by Monday. 
 

His counterpart at a sister hospital had his wife test positive. He got the test because someone they live with is positive. Sure enough he started showing symptoms a few days later and is positive. 
 

There’s no way to quarantine all HCW that have potential exposure. Too many people come into the ER for one thing and end up being positive to boot. No matter how careful they are. And the whole airborne thing makes it so much more impossible to contain. We’d have HCW sitting at home with no symptoms and possibly not even positive while hospitals are drowning in covid patients. 
 

Update: they did a chest X-ray first. Since he is showing symptoms and doesn’t have any risk factors they are going to save the test. He’s going to be quarantined for two weeks. 

Edited by Plum
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31 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

I have a family full of nurses and doctors.  They are exposed to horrible things every day.  Things worse than covid-19.  If they all quarantined every time they had a patient with something, there wouldn't be any nurses or doctors at work.  They would all be at home.  lol

My sister is a NP and has worked in clinics throughout this entire pandemic.  She is exposed daily to all kinds of things.  


Do you understand what a pandemic (& one due to a novel virus) is? 

I also would like to know - specifically - what healthcare workers have been exposed to in the past that is comparable  

 

Edited by Happy2BaMom
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1 hour ago, Plum said:

Update: they did a chest X-ray first. Since he is showing symptoms and doesn’t have any risk factors they are going to save the test. He’s going to be quarantined for two weeks. 

@Plum I hope he & your whole family remain as healthy as possible.

I hadn't thought much about this aspect, but the 'don't need to test' attitude exposes how even woth exponentiadlly increasing case numbers, we aren't getting an accurate picture of our situation. How many orders of magnitude higher are our cases than what positive test results show? What would our percent positive rate be if we captured all of these assumed positives  (and exposed people who didn't catch it). I.e., it is worse than it looks, but how much worse?

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2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Yep. Insane. Friend of mine was called by a client that she had interacted with the day before. Client had tested positive that morning. Friend called two different testing places. First one wouldn't test her because she wasn't a patient if theirs. (I.e., she doesn't go to one of their doctors. Standard practice for just about everything in that town. Grr!) Second place said they don't do "exposure testing" but if her regular doctor wrote her a test request script, they would do the test in 5 days (to give it a chance to 'set in').

She owns her own service -based business!!! Anyway, she finally was able to get an appointment with the state's testing program for Monday (5 days from exposure--first opening she could find that was reasonably close).

And all her clients she interacted with post-exposure (and her dh who also works in a service business) are left hanging until her results come back.

And no one has contacted her yet (other than her client) as far as contact tracing either. And we are in a low spread area. Although I'm starting to think that it is because no one is getting tested!

 

I don’t know when tests tend to come back positive for Asymptomatic carriers.

 For people with symptoms 3 days in has been suggested as a day to get tested for there to be enough virus on one hand, but still located where a nasal swab might get at it, according to some things I have heard. 

I hope we will get some easier, Fast, inexpensive test. 

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1 hour ago, Plum said:

Truth

Dh is getting tested at his hospital right now. I’m sitting in the parking lot. He started showing symptoms yesterday morning. It started out with a headache and by the evening he had 103.6 fever, numbness in his hand, foggy brain. He woke up and his fever broke but he couldn’t even taste his toothpaste. All of the staff he’s talked to have said yup, he has it. It’s not until they show symptoms that they get tested and even then, it’s not necessary if you have the obvious signs. The only reason dh is getting one of the few rapid tests they have on hand is because he was in a bunch of meetings this week with the C-Suite and heads of departments. They’d all like to know. 

I don’t need to get tested if he does. I can pretty much assume the whole family has it and act accordingly. Ds already notified his work. Luckily he’s been off for the past 3 days. Dh should get his results back by Monday. 
 

His counterpart at a sister hospital had his wife test positive. He got the test because someone they live with is positive. Sure enough he started showing symptoms a few days later and is positive. 
 

There’s no way to quarantine all HCW that have potential exposure. Too many people come into the ER for one thing and end up being positive to boot. No matter how careful they are. And the whole airborne thing makes it so much more impossible to contain. We’d have HCW sitting at home with no symptoms and possibly not even positive while hospitals are drowning in covid patients. 
 

Update: they did a chest X-ray first. Since he is showing symptoms and doesn’t have any risk factors they are going to save the test. He’s going to be quarantined for two weeks. 

 

I hope you will all be okay!!!!

 

 

thoughts and questions in my mind- no need to answer: 

Is he quarantining at home?  

have you got a pulse oximeter? 

I thought when symptomatic “isolation” for the first ___ days is recommended. 

What are they having him do or take?

And is it a MATH protocol hospital? 

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5 minutes ago, kand said:

I totally agree with you that doctors and nurses can’t be quarantining just because they’re treating Covid patients. Obviously that would be ridiculous and there would be no one left to treat anyone. If they show symptoms, they should not be there. But also if they have close contact without PPE with someone who is found to be contagious, they should then be on quarantine until test results clear them. Because doctors and nurses aren’t in PPE every minute they are at work. They usually don and doff before going in to see a patient, meaning between times they would be potentially infecting all their coworkers. 

This!!!!

there is a huge difference between a doctor whose wife has Covid, that he's been sleeping in the same bed with, and a doctor who treated a Covid positive patient using all the right PPE. HUGE. 

And the doctor is going to expose countless other doctors and health care workers and who knows who else, who will then expose their families, etc. 

It's mind boggling. 

And when that situation is used in fields where people are NOT medical professionals it is even more insane. 

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1 hour ago, Medicmom2.0 said:


We never got hit hard, at least not yet, so never faced this situation. However; it was the guidelines we received from NYS DOH. Mask if exposed, stay home if symptomatic/positive test.  However when a coworkers wife tested positive, my boss told him just to stay home till he had his test result back(it was negative).  But if we’d had a lot of exposure, the guidelines would have let us keep working.

Yes. HCW have to keep working even with exposures. And, of course, exposure does not equal infection. Very few other essential jobs have the potential to directly affect lives — utility (especially with 100*+ heat), water, sanitation workers certainly.

Unfortunately, my area has been hit hard and the hits keep coming. I can’t even tell you how many Covid-+ patients I’ve treated/transported and most of them are not known to be positive when they call. We play a macabre game of “Do I don full PPE for this patient?”

And I cannot emphasize enough how utterly physically exhausting it is to wear full PPE in 100*+ heat with heat indices around 110*. Multiple times a day. 

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

I hope you will all be okay!!!!

 

 

thoughts and questions in my mind- no need to answer: 

Is he quarantining at home?  

have you got a pulse oximeter? 

I thought when symptomatic “isolation” for the first ___ days is recommended. 

What are they having him do or take?

And is it a MATH protocol hospital? 

 

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

@Plum I hope he & your whole family remain as healthy as possible.

I hadn't thought much about this aspect, but the 'don't need to test' attitude exposes how even woth exponentiadlly increasing case numbers, we aren't getting an accurate picture of our situation. How many orders of magnitude higher are our cases than what positive test results show? What would our percent positive rate be if we captured all of these assumed positives  (and exposed people who didn't catch it). I.e., it is worse than it looks, but how much worse?

Update: we pulled into our driveway and his COO texted him and told him to get back to the hospital and they’ll test him in our car at the ambulance bay because they are concerned about contact tracing with all of the meetings he’s been in. They were in a meeting for a couple of hours on Thursday. 

He’s isolating at home. His chest X-ray was clear, which wasn’t a surprise since it’s still early. He’s in good shape and has no pre-existing conditions. His O2 sats are 96-98%. His blood pressure is fine now. It was a little low when he had numbness in his hand. They prescribed him some Tylenol (we have acetaminophen at home) and some cough syrup which he probably won’t want to take because he does not react well to any of those types of drugs. He has no trouble coughing stuff up when he’s normally sick. I’ve been making sure he takes his vitamin and an extra dose of D before he leaves for work every day. He’s still in the early phases. I wouldn’t be surprised if his test came back negative. 

I read months ago that you could multiply case numbers by 10 and not come close to actual case numbers. It’s probably more like x25-50. The same goes for flu though because so many are able to manage it at home and never see a doctor. The majority of people that get it won’t have to go to the doctor or into the hospital and will never be a part of the stats. Which is why I get really annoyed when people accuse hospitals of inflating the numbers. 

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Wow that is crazy.  The nuclear plant is way more serious.  If anyone in your home is exposed to COVID you stay home for 2 weeks or 2 negative tests.  That's if their are no symptoms.  I thought HCW would be similar.  Maybe the nuclear plant has to be more careful since you can't just hire new operators?  Even if someone has been an operator somewhere else they have to do 18months minimum of training to get licensed at the current plant.  

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

I don’t know when tests tend to come back positive for Asymptomatic carriers.

Me neither, but my understanding in this case was the positive person my friend was exposed to was asymptomatic at the time of exposure. [Are the current rapid tests known for false positives? I know they are notorious for false negatives, but I haven't heard much about false positives.]

19 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

Wow that is crazy.  The nuclear plant is way more serious.  If anyone in your home is exposed to COVID you stay home for 2 weeks or 2 negative tests.  That's if their are no symptoms.

My DH works (as an operator) at a nuclear plant & the guidelines there are not as clear as yours. Even if I was exposed, he could still go to work. Only if I had a positive test would he need to stay home for 14 days. (And knowing what I know now, it is likely most people aren't getting tested so his co-workers would keep working until they show symptoms. Then they stay home for 14 days or have to show a negative test.)

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25 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

 

My DH works (as an operator) at a nuclear plant & the guidelines there are not as clear as yours. Even if I was exposed, he could still go to work. Only if I had a positive test would he need to stay home for 14 days. (And knowing what I know now, it is likely most people aren't getting tested so his co-workers would keep working until they show symptoms. Then they stay home for 14 days or have to show a negative test.

Oh wow they are taking it very serious here.  Maybe because we have basically just enough operators (they are constantly leaving for Dam jobs) They pulled every teacher and supervisor who technically still had a license and made them recert on everything.  They really couldn't survive even a relatively small outbreak.  

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43 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Me neither, but my understanding in this case was the positive person my friend was exposed to was asymptomatic at the time of exposure. [Are the current rapid tests known for false positives? I know they are notorious for false negatives, but I haven't heard much about false positives.]

My DH works (as an operator) at a nuclear plant & the guidelines there are not as clear as yours. Even if I was exposed, he could still go to work. Only if I had a positive test would he need to stay home for 14 days. (And knowing what I know now, it is likely most people aren't getting tested so his co-workers would keep working until they show symptoms. Then they stay home for 14 days or have to show a negative test.)

We're having a bit of a controversy here about the rapid tests. There were a lot, at least 59, of positive rapid tests but the state will not confirm them until the regular (?) test comes back positive. A number of the original positive are now coming back negative with the longer test according to the Dept of health. 

 

https://vtdigger.org/2020/07/17/levine-says-manchester-covid-19-cases-may-be-false-positives/

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45 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Me neither, but my understanding in this case was the positive person my friend was exposed to was asymptomatic at the time of exposure. [Are the current rapid tests known for false positives? I know they are notorious for false negatives, but I haven't heard much about false positives.]

 

Idk for sure, but I think false negative is much bigger problem than false positives - certainly they aren’t “known for” false positives. 

 

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1 hour ago, kand said:

Could you explain what you mean here? I reread  several times, and I’m not connecting what the “this is why” is that you are referring to. My apologies if I’m missing something obvious 😳

When the general public hears that healthcare workers don't need to social distance or quarantine if they are exposed to a positive case, then they themselves are less likely to self isolate when exposed.  I know that it is comparing apples to oranges, but the population at large may not understand that.  

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7 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Yep. Insane. Friend of mine was called by a client that she had interacted with the day before. Client had tested positive that morning. Friend called two different testing places. First one wouldn't test her because she wasn't a patient if theirs. (I.e., she doesn't go to one of their doctors. Standard practice for just about everything in that town. Grr!) Second place said they don't do "exposure testing" but if her regular doctor wrote her a test request script, they would do the test in 5 days (to give it a chance to 'set in').

She owns her own service -based business!!! Anyway, she finally was able to get an appointment with the state's testing program for Monday (5 days from exposure--first opening she could find that was reasonably close).

And all her clients she interacted with post-exposure (and her dh who also works in a service business) are left hanging until her results come back.

And no one has contacted her yet (other than her client) as far as contact tracing either. And we are in a low spread area. Although I'm starting to think that it is because no one is getting tested!

I hate to say it but I think the whole testing/contact tracing thing has sailed. As far as I can see it’s just let er rip now.

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3 minutes ago, TCB said:

I hate to say it but I think the whole testing/contact tracing thing has sailed. As far as I can see it’s just let er rip now.

 

That is what the government appears to be doing, yes. It is heartbreaking and means that thousands will die unnecessarily. 

Even so, if wiser head would prevail, I believe that if we were to embrace these measures at any point, they would have an effect.

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6 hours ago, kand said:

I totally agree with you that doctors and nurses can’t be quarantining just because they’re treating Covid patients. Obviously that would be ridiculous and there would be no one left to treat anyone. If they show symptoms, they should not be there. But also if they have close contact without PPE with someone who is found to be contagious, they should then be on quarantine until test results clear them. Because doctors and nurses aren’t in PPE every minute they are at work. They usually don and doff before going in to see a patient, meaning between times they would be potentially infecting all their coworkers. 

Not anymore.  Because of PPE shortages, COVID PPE protocols favour extended use for masks and faceshields.  I wear the same surgical mask for my entire shift.  

Gowns and gloves do get donned and doffed between patients.

ETA ;   If I have to do an aerosol generating procedure, then I swap out for an N95, and keep the same N95 on my face for the rest of the shift.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, wathe said:

Not anymore.  Because of PPE shortages, COVID PPE protocols favour extended use for masks and faceshields.  I wear the same surgical mask for my entire shift.  

Gowns and gloves do get donned and doffed between patients.

ETA ;   If I have to do an aerosol generating procedure, then I swap out for an N95, and keep the same N95 on my face for the rest of the shift.

 

 

Same, except we’ve always conserved and reworn surgical masks and N95s (aside from AGPs). 

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34 minutes ago, wathe said:

Not anymore.  Because of PPE shortages, COVID PPE protocols favour extended use for masks and faceshields.  I wear the same surgical mask for my entire shift.  

Gowns and gloves do get donned and doffed between patients.

ETA ;   If I have to do an aerosol generating procedure, then I swap out for an N95, and keep the same N95 on my face for the rest of the shift.

 

 

We are wearing the same surgical mask for 5 days and the same N95 for 10 decontaminations.

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10 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So, I was complaining that a school district in Georgia has told teachers that if they are exposed to a known positive case they do not need to isolate. Only if they get tested and are positive. 

And a friend, who is a social worker at a large university teaching hospital in Florida, said it is the same for healthcare workers! She said: "Healthcare workers here with known exposure are to continue working with a mask, get tested, and only have to quarantine if their test comes back positive. It mystifies. At least they have updated it that if the exposure lives and remains in your home, you must quarantine until they are negative or 10 days from symptoms."

So if you spend the day with a friend who is positive, you can keep working, but if you live with them you cannot. And that's healthcare people who should know better! And neither their advice, not the school's, say you have to get tested yourself!

And we wonder why we have uncontrolled spread here!!! It's like everyone thinks that as long as you don't have a test result to prove it, you don't have it!

Could this depend upon how they define exposure?  Were they referring to a teacher who was in the same room as a known positive case?  Or were they referring to a teacher who had been within 6 feet of a known case for more than 15 minutes?  

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9 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:


Ugh. We are having this absolutely stupid problem where people are not answering 911 center’s questions truthfully.  Last week I was dispatching and 911 called me and said hey we have a call for a guy vomiting.  Answered no to all Covid questions.  We are now only wearing surgical masks and gloves on routine calls; N95, gloves, gowns and eye protection if there is any Covid question.

My crew walks in on this guy with a 104.1 fever, dry cough, chills, body aches and loss of smell. And oh yeah he just got back from Miami. 
In the early days our state EMS guidelines, that were publicized to the community, were to sign off patients that displayed Covid symptoms but had solid Spo2 and no risk factors.  Since our hospitals never got overwhelmed we never really did that and did our default you call-we haul routine.  But now people seem to think if they answer yes to any Covid questions that we won’t take them to the hospital, so they lie to 911.  It’s freaking awesome.

Oh, ugh!  BTDT. It absolutely infuriates me. But, of course, now this wouldn’t even count as an exposure. 🤬

Burns me up! We are literally putting our health and even lives and, by the by, possibly our families’ health and lives, on the line and people won’t answer the damn questions honestly.

My partner and I probably sound like cops when we go into houses —“Does anyone here have <insert a litany of s/s>?!? Does anyone having a pending test or tested positive?!? Everyone who answered yes, except the patient, needs to move to another room!” <sigh>

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1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

Could this depend upon how they define exposure?  Were they referring to a teacher who was in the same room as a known positive case?  Or were they referring to a teacher who had been within 6 feet of a known case for more than 15 minutes?  

Doesn't specify, at all. Just a list of FAQ. 

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1 hour ago, kand said:

Ugh, I’m sorry there’s still a shortage. I can’t recall, are you working with known Covid positive patients? At your hospital, are there times when staff is together when PPE is not being worn? 

Some known Covid patients, but not many.  Most are unknowns (emerg).

Staff may remove masks in the break rooms to eat and drink.  Social distancing is strictly enforced - regular break room has been closed and we are using a large conference room instead.  Most staff are avoiding break rooms altogether.  The few times I've been in there, I've had it all to myself.  There are no in-person admin type meetings - that is all virtual now.

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Just now, mommyoffive said:

I am so sorry.    How is he doing?  Are you sick too?   Sending some healing power your way. 

Thanks. His fever broke this morning. He's been feeling a little better all day, but just asked for some acetaminophen cause he's starting to feel feverish again. They said to watch his appetite since he can't smell or taste anything.

I'm fine so far. I assume I have it. I was sleeping right next to him while he was presymptomatic.  We're trying to be careful until I start exhibiting some symptoms so I'm sleeping on the couch and he's got our bedroom all to himself. 

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16 hours ago, wathe said:

Some known Covid patients, but not many.  Most are unknowns (emerg).

Staff may remove masks in the break rooms to eat and drink.  Social distancing is strictly enforced - regular break room has been closed and we are using a large conference room instead.  Most staff are avoiding break rooms altogether.  The few times I've been in there, I've had it all to myself.  There are no in-person admin type meetings - that is all virtual now.

 

Are you allowed to do anything like spray PPE with salt solution? 

 

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So...I was preparing to take dd on a long car trip next week to another state. I was planning to see one of my friends and she one of hers (separate family from my friend), mostly to give everyone a sanity break. We were going to spend two nights and then drive home.

Dd just told me a little bit ago that her friend is now in....wait for it...FLORIDA (we are at least 1,000 miles from FL), because it's friend's birthday this week and her parents surprised her with this trip a few days ago. They've already gone to the beach, are planning to go parasailing and to alligator shows (all this from her friend's texts today), and gawd knows where else. I instantly told dd we now won't be going. I'm grateful that she understood and agreed.

Seriously....WTF? How can they knowingly fly across the country to FL, traipsing all over the place, fly home....and then welcome my child to spend two days in their house? I assume they wouldn't have told me until we got there (if at all), since the info came through the friend and not the parents. Do they not think I might like to know about this trip in order to assess my comfort level with exposure? I sure as h*ll would tell someone that I'd just been on two plane trips and skipping about FL before I let them into my house.

And this is how it spreads.

Somewhere else, Katie, I think you said you were going to die of an aneurysm before Covid got you. I'm right there with you.....

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Just an example of how testing availability varies in different parts of the country: at my husband's hospital, all staff and family have staff can be tested weekly if they like, symptomatic or no. Results for rapid tests are available within the day, generally, and the rest within 2-4 days. Staff members are expected to stay home for any symptoms, but really not practical to have people stay home for at-work exposures. They are doing elective procedures, but it is really quiet there. I had to have a procedure this week and the quiet was eerie. This is a statewide referral hospital and is usually bustling with all sorts of activity. They don't have PPE issues here; adequate availability.

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