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Anyone NOT doing AP or DE in high school?


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We homeschool in order to allow our children to pursue academics according to their individual interests and abilities, not replicate a ps at home.  Pace/progression is according to ability, not classroom. My kids have been able to take courses like Russian history, French history studied in French, communism in the 20th century, apologetics of CS Lewis, philosophy, meteorology, dark matter and black holes, and a capstone thesis project on Shakespeare.  

It isn't that we dont do AP or DE, bc they may opt to or not. It's more along the lines that we dont see AP and DE as the primary objective or the superior choices. If those courses fit their personal needs and that is the path they want, they do.   It is more along the lines that that path isnt the default progression.

 

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youngest: does not have ability for those due to special needs.

Middle: simply was not ready. She's a slower to average learner in her high school days.  We did high school courses at home. She learned how to learn.  She's doing well with alternative college course credit providers to finish a bachelor's degree within a calendar year (which will be 4 years after high school graduation).  Even with her college courses, it was done at home online asynchronous so that she was at her pace to be successful.  pay as we go for college credit. no debt. happy on this.

Oldest: you know the super genius first born homeschooled. She would have capable of AP or DE during high school. (she's the one who went on in college to earn 3 bachelors in 4 years all in STEM majors and was top of her class) And there were grants to cover some of the costs.  Various reasons we didn't do DE: time to get to campus and back, and be on their schedule was not attractive for our homeschool goals, some worries about impact to GPA in college years, she needed more time to become a better writer so that she could excel in college freshman composition as a college freshman.    She did get some CLEP exams done (one in high school was just for me to know she was learning her college algebra, and one the summer after college freshman year to met a Gen Ed requirement).    Now that's she more than 2 years past college graduation the only DE I wish I had helped with was to find an ethics course that her college would have accepted for Gen Ed requirements instead of her taking it in summer school while in college. She had some health issues and barely passed the course that summer.  Or have found a clep or dsst exam she could have done for it.

Like 8 said, DE/AP was not our default.  Oldest still got into engineering school without them and had top scholarships.  She had awesome GPA in college.  and is employed in one of those majors (comp sci).

that's just our story. :)

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17 minutes ago, cbollin said:

Oldest still got into engineering school without them and had top scholarships.  She had awesome GPA in college.  and is employed in one of those majors (comp sci).

that's just our story. 🙂

Same. Our kids have had the opportunity to shine in their applications bc they have pursued areas of interest. They have earned $$ scholarships and graduated college with honors. (Current college sr who took no APs and 1 DE class has a 4.0 and is attending on scholarship.)

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1 hour ago, Runningmom80 said:

@8FillTheHeart This is refreshing. I've been a little bummed out about the prospect of HS becoming less personalized due to the AP/DE slog (DE would obviously lend to more interest led than AP does). It's comforting to see there are other viable paths to higher learning. 

 

 

yep. agreeing. lots of good paths so that homeschooling stays personalized. I know in one case a lady on this forum (who lives in my general area) has a child and the way it was more personalized was to enroll in college courses to meet that child's needs and have a more unique path.  That and traveling to New Zealand to be a presenter at a world conference for reptile study.  yep.  so, uhm, right.  even with dual enroll it was unique with her and fit her needs and all of that.   All of it is personalized and individualized -- sometimes that means DE and sometimes not.   and with my middle gal, I never imagined that a bachelors could happen, but she's on a non traditional approach with that. To show how personalized that can be, I know there are some using very similar approach as middle gal and end up with bachelors at age 16 or 17.  But my middle gal will be 22 with same approach.  She just needed more time and go at the pace she is.   Be encouraged 🙂

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Neither DS took any AP courses/tests, and neither DS did a heavy load of DE, because AP and DE did not fit the needs or goals of either DS.

Each DS did 2 DE courses in 12th grade, to knock out their foreign language credits, as DE was the best method available to us for learning a foreign language. It also allowed each DS the ability to "dip a toe" in the water of college level work and college level pace before they graduated, which made their transition into college a little easier, knowing what to expect.

We, too, were able to customize courses to fit interests during our homeschool high school years. And both DSs earned scholarships once they graduated and attended either the community college or a 4-year university. So NOT doing AP (or CLEP), and only a very little specifically targeted DE, allowed us to maximize tailoring high school to best fit each DS's needs and interests, AND that did not hurt either DS's post-high school educational opportunities. 😉 

Edited by Lori D.
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after reading Lori's answer, I wanted to add that to help our oldest dip her toe in college course without DE that she used MOOC (coursera I think?) for physics and calculus in senior year. At the time, the courses (non credit) were a 14 week course with deadlines.  We used that instead of textbook for at home course.  no real risk if things went wrong, and yet it seemed to help her be ready for something different.

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Our experience has been along the lines described by 8 and cbollin: our youngest just completed her first year of college, and both she and her brother, during their high school years, did not rely heavily on APs. They each did several university courses — choices that worked to their advantage in a number of ways:

  • A's in their university courses lent credibility to the A's awarded for courses done at home.
  • Both included in their college applications letters of recommendation from their university professors.

What's more, each of our kids won generous scholarships, so that each will emerge from college debt-free — one of our family goals.

My wife and I both teach high-school-aged homeschoolers, and we declined the opportunity to teach AP content long ago, and for several reasons:

  • We're subject-matter experts ourselves, and neither of us felt inclined to teach an inflexible list of topics dictated by the College Board. 
  • We didn't believe in teaching "a mile wide and an inch deep" — which is what most AP teachers end up having to do to deliver on their promise, which is to prepare kids for the end-of-year test.
  • We believe that the high school years are not simply about textbook knowledge and information; they're equally about developing skills.
  • We both believe that students benefit from going deep with their individual interests — that when students research a topic in great depth, they learn things and develop skills they might not develop in any other way.
  • We believe in filling our courses with opportunities for students to develop their communication skills — e.g., by allowing students to discuss topics at great length, analyze their reading aloud and in real depth; by designing and delivering to one another presentations — by taking up the mantle of "expert" and teaching one another, basically.

At any rate, I have long feared that we homeschoolers, in our mania for test prep, earning college credit, scoring points with admissions officers, and the like, may easily overlook what the high school years are really all about.

—Roy Speed

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We hit the DE and the AP fairly hard, but I hope it is ok to post on this thread with this amazing 😉 insight: 8's kids have had very high standardized test scores, as well as international competitions, IIRC.  You can do what you want in high school so long as there is a number at the other end. I mean that's just truth.

 I do not know when testing of any kind will be available for kids that are now coming up like mine. My son does not have a standardized test score, and I do not know if he will have one before he applies to college.

If i had no DE or AP, right about now is when I would jump on that bandwagon with both hands and feet. Unless your target college is a truly test-optional one that accepts based on essays, and said kid can write an essay. 

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47 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

We hit the DE and the AP fairly hard, but I hope it is ok to post on this thread with this amazing 😉 insight: 8's kids have had very high standardized test scores, as well as international competitions, IIRC.  You can do what you want in high school so long as there is a number at the other end. I mean that's just truth.

 I do not know when testing of any kind will be available for kids that are now coming up like mine. My son does not have a standardized test score, and I do not know if he will have one before he applies to college.

If i had no DE or AP, right about now is when I would jump on that bandwagon with both hands and feet. Unless your target college is a truly test-optional one that accepts based on essays, and said kid can write an essay. 

My dd who just graduated did not have any type of competitions or any outsourced classes at all other than German Online.  She does have a decently high SAT score, though.  She received the U's automatic scholarship based on her test score and our home printed GPA and she was accepted into the Honors College.

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Just noting that the majority of colleges are not top tier/selective/competitive. Also, the majority of homeschool students are not "high end" students, like the students of MadTeaParty's and 8FillTheHeart. 

Just to encourage those reading this thread and debating about whether or not to do AP and/or DE.... Absolutely go for AP and DE if you have that type of student and it is a good fit for the student, and if AP and DE meet your educational goals. BUT, by the same token, don't feel forced into AP and DE because you're thinking that it is the only way for the student to be challenged, or to be accepted into a college, or to earn scholarships, or to succeed with top scores in college. (Example: DS#1, with NO APs and only 2 DE courses, received scholarships, and graduated magna cum laude for his BA + honors college; he is on track to graduate magna cum laude for his BS...)

I have very typical students, neither of whom was academically driven or self-motivated. DS#2 had mild LDs and had an extremely average SAT/ACT test score (very proud of him for landing that, with his LDs!!), and he still received a modest scholarship at the community college. DS#1 had ACT/SAT test scores just reaching into the partial scholarship range of scores at average colleges, but certainly not considered anywhere near a "high" test score. His scores landed him a full scholarship at the community college, and then a generous renewable transfer scholarship at the very average 4-year college.

However, what DSs learned as far as college prep from our homeschool high school courses was more valuable than benefits that APs and lots of DE might have given  them -- to work until they had mastery of concepts, and how to study and learn independently.

Much of our high school time was spent in exploring interests, learning about options, establishing a balanced lifestyle, and developing a solid set of thinking and reasoning skills to be successful adults -- college is just a small part of their overall adult lives (and likely not going to be a part of DS#2's future), we felt that as long as DSs had a college prep set of credits and had the skills for learning at college, that they could succeed at the majority of "standard"/"typical" universities. APs and lots of DE were not needed here for us to achieve those goals. I totally understand that others will have different goals, and also that APs and DE may be a great fit for their students.
 

JMO: I would not panic about not having an SAT/ACT score at the moment, because *everyone* is in the same boat right now with no access to testing due to the pandemic. Colleges are absolutely going to flex and bend for the next year or two about admitting students without test scores, understanding that tests weren't available, or were limited. Also, both ACT and SAT (College Board) are planning on offering more testing dates through 2020-2021 to accommodate having fewer students in testing centers, and to make up for having to cancel spring and summer tests.

Again, JMO, but I think colleges are going to be a lot more flexible about admissions in general to get students back on campuses (and get the tuition $$$), because colleges aren't going to be able to handle the financial hit caused by the shut down halfway through the spring 2020 semester, and whatever shut downs/changes will happen for the fall 2020 semester. I would suspect that a year from now, the admission process will look somewhat different, with a good likelihood that there will be fewer students attending college -- if nothing else, due to families having even less $$ to spend on college with the pandemic's hit to jobs and the economy. I would guess that could lead to 2021-2022 becoming more of a "buyer's market", in favor of students being admitted much more readily by many colleges that will be scrambling to meet budgets through tuition $$, just to stay afloat.

 

Just my 2.5 cents worth. 😉 Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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16 hours ago, Mom21 said:

What are your reasons for NOT doing AP or Dual Enrollment courses in high school?

I know you are asking what others are doing/not doing re: AP and DE... But ultimately, we each have very different children and very different circumstances and options open to us, from what you have. 😉 My thought is that what will help YOU best decide for your family is to think through each of your students and their unique abilities, needs, goals, and possible future paths. Then look at the pros and cons of AP, CLEP, and DE. Below are typical reasons why homeschoolers choose to do/not do some of these options:

AP: typical reasons FOR doing it
- student needs or is ready for the advanced rigor now 
- student is planning on applying to a school where AP may increase admission odds
- APs show advance work, which can sometimes open doors for the student to enter honors/special programs as a college freshman
- wanting to earn credit-by-exam, and reduce overall # of credits needed for earning the degree (possibly also reducing cost)

AP: typical reasons for NOT doing it
- testing is too stressful for the student
- student does not test well
- not a fit / not of interest / not needed
- too hard to find a testing location

CLEP: typical reasons FOR doing it
- "confirmation" of home-awarded grades
-  in advance, knock out gen. ed. credits required for the degree, so student has more time in college to focus on core concentration courses for the degree
- reduce overall # of credits needed for earning the degree, in order to reduce time (and thereby, cost) of college

CLEP: typical reasons for NOT doing it
- testing is too stressful for the student
- student does not test well
- not a fit / not of interest / not needed
- future college doesn't accept CLEPS, or doesn't accept as credit towards the desired degree

DE: typical reasons FOR doing it
- outsourcing of coursework beyond a parent's ability to mentor
- student is ready for college level work
- community college/university offering the DE has a special low cost/no cost tuition deal for DE
- want to "dip a toe" into college volume/speed of work to ease the transition into college workload
- community college offers an AA or AAS degree that the student can/wants to complete while in high school
- student is planning on applying to a school where DE (ad may increase admission odds)
- AP show advance work, which open doors for the student to enter honors program or special program as a college freshman

DE: typical reasons for NOT doing it
- not a fit / not of interest / not needed
- school offering the DE is expensive (so DE doesn't really save much money)
- school offering the DE has poor instructors/classes, or credits are not widely transferrable/accepted by other colleges
- future college doesn't accept the DE credits, or doesn't accept as credits towards the desired degree
 

You might also find it helpful to read through some of the past threads (esp. those that compare the options of AP / DE / CLEP), to help you think through what might be a good fit for each of your individual students. Check out PAGE 2 of the big pinned thread "High School Motherlode #1" at the top of the High School Board. 😄 

BEST of luck in sorting through all the info, and researching your options! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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oh yeah, what did my oldest do about letters of recommendation since she did not have AP, DE or even outsource homeschool tutorials?  She got them from the adult leaders of clubs/youth group/volunteer work that she was involved with over high school years.  And while she did not attend an elite, super wowzers omg bragging rights university, she did attend and graduate from a well respected and regionally ranked  (US news rankings) in top 25 kind of place.   She only needed letters of recommendation when it came time for the competitive full ride scholarship.  She did not get that full ride.  I doubt it was lack of DE in her case.  But more of not doing well in interview with her anxiety and adhd and high functioning autism.   Her scholarships did come from ACT scores and departmental stuff.

If it is any weird encouragement at all?  My youngest never toook accuplacer or act.  She is not really capable of that with her extensive issues.  But due to covid 19, the community college placed her for pre req reading skill based on her high school gpa and transcript.    maybe that doesn't apply to people on this forum as much.  but wanted to show one example where colleges this fall had to be creative and flexible with the whole covid stuff.  just like lori says in her opinion.

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We're just starting high school, so I don't have any 'been there, done that' advice. But, we've been discussing this topic because I have an advanced kid who, if we chose to, could do a lot of AP and dual enrollment courses.  My husband was talking about all of the DE/APs that we could do, and I realized that I didn't want to lose the benefit of freedom that we get by homeschooling.  Where we landed is that we'd consider AP/DE if we could do it without adding stress or sacrificing an interest-led course.  We are planning to gear our Chemistry course next year around preparing for the AP exam, but if kiddo doesn't feel ready, we won't stress about it.  This student does science competitions as an extracurricular and doing chem this year was actually in part to help prepare for those, so learning it in such a way that we're prepping for AP isn't adding much.  We may be in a similar situation with other classes with this kid.  On the other hand, I'm not willing to give up an interest-led elective or cool class that we design to fulfill a requirement to shape it around more limiting AP/DE syllabi.  If kiddo wants to take a DE statistics class as an extra math or take calculus with a teacher, it's fine with me, or if the AP exam seems doable then we can sign up (ahead of time, in the fall, because...crazy) but if independent study about game or knot theory sounds more interesting, then we'll do that.

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2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

My dd who just graduated did not have any type of competitions or any outsourced classes at all other than German Online.  She does have a decently high SAT score, though.  She received the U's automatic scholarship based on her test score and our home printed GPA and she was accepted into the Honors College.


you aren’t in CA 😂


I think it’s all about knowing where you want to be headed. Many, many colleges don’t require much other than a good enough SAT score and a transcript. And that most definitely gives those families freedom to pursue things their way. 
I think those in CA or kids who are interested in selective schools will be better served with having some verification unless they are absolutely brilliant (made a math Olympic team for example). 

 

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Your responses have inspired a new question. For those with students who have completed SAT/ACT tests, what do you consider decent or high test scores? (Please share student scores, if you don’t mind.) I am also curious as to which scores resulted in scholarships.

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5 hours ago, Mom21 said:

Your responses have inspired a new question. For those with students who have completed SAT/ACT tests, what do you consider decent or high test scores? (Please share student scores, if you don’t mind.) I am also curious as to which scores resulted in scholarships.

 

"decent or high" and "resulted in scholarships". you're not going to like this, but  Depends on the individual college. I'm sure someone like lori can break it down with those FAQ about super selective universities and the meaning of percentages of admitted students average range of scores. I'm side stepping that info other than suggest reading this blog with some info on that https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-act-score-a-bad-act-score-an-excellent-act-score.

My oldest got a 30 on ACT (year taken 2012 or 2013), which on this forum might be "low".  However, that was more than enough for best scholarships at her university based on ACT score.  She was more than eligible for state grants, highest tier university money, and departmental/major award all stacked.  She attended a university that is top 25 "regionally ranked".   I can remember she was honestly worried her score was "low" during an admissions visit to the department.  The professor who would become her advisor just laughed when my dd said "I'm a little worried  since I only got a 30 on ACT overall and just a 28 on the math part."  Professor V just laughed "oh, only a 30.  I'll definitely be your advisor in electrical engineering, and computer science.  You're ready for Calculus as a freshman. don't worry".   But if she had been going to my alma mater, she may not have made it in.   (I only got into my college back in the day because it was the year before they became super elite selective admissions.)

Middle gal is my slow to average learner.  I was thrilled she got a 24 on ACT (taken 2017).  absolutely awesome and descent score for her.  Our state only requires 21 on ACT for state grant eligibility.  So she was scholarship eligible too with that score for the places she went.

Edited by cbollin
added in years the tests were taken
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31 minutes ago, cbollin said:

 

"decent or high" and "resulted in scholarships". you're not going to like this, but  Depends on the individual college. I'm sure someone like lori can break it down with those FAQ about super selective universities and the meaning of percentages of admitted students average range of scores. I'm side stepping that info other than suggest reading this blog with some info on that https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-act-score-a-bad-act-score-an-excellent-act-score.

Thank you.

Quote

My oldest got a 30 on ACT, which on this forum might be "low".  However, that was more than enough for best scholarships at her university based on ACT score.  She was more than eligible for state grants, highest tier university money, and departmental/major award all stacked.  She attended a university that is top 25 "regionally ranked".   I can remember she was honestly worried her score was "low" during an admissions visit to the department.  The professor who would become her advisor just laughed when my dd said "I'm a little worried  since I only got a 30 on ACT overall and just a 28 on the math part."  Professor V just laughed "oh, only a 30.  I'll definitely be your advisor in electrical engineering, and computer science.  You're ready for Calculus as a freshman. don't worry".   But if she had been going to my alma mater, she may not have made it in.   (I only got into my college back in the day because it was the year before they became super elite selective admissions.)

Middle gal is my slow to average learner.  I was thrilled she got a 24 on ACT.  absolutely awesome and descent score for her.  Our state only requires 21 on ACT for state grant eligibility.  So she was scholarship eligible too with that score for the places she went.

This is exactly what I was curious about. Thank you for sharing your experience!

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2 hours ago, Mom21 said:

Your responses have inspired a new question. For those with students who have completed SAT/ACT tests, what do you consider decent or high test scores? (Please share student scores, if you don’t mind.) I am also curious as to which scores resulted in scholarships.

I never post my kids scores, but in general when I say they have decently high test scores, I am referring to the 90th and above percentiles.  I can share that none of my kids have ever scored "super high" as in close to perfect scores.  I have had kids be awarded their U's most competitive scholarships with scores below the profile students.  (For example, if the profile awardees have 35s or 1500+s, my kids have received the scholarships without scores that high.) 

Some of my kids do have exceptional academic backgrounds that have made them competitive in a way that is way out of the box for the traditional homeschool or ps applicant.  For example, my dd who is a college sr didn't take any AP exams and her only DE class was 2nd semester sr yr (so after applications and acceptances.) But, she taught herself to fluency in French.  (I do not know French and she did not have a French teacher.) She won multiple regional and international awards for Russian. She translated a Russian fairy tale into English (not as easy as it sounds when you try to maintain rhyme and meter).  

But there are schools who offer scholarships purely based on GPA and test scores.  Those are automatic scholarships vs competitive.  Those scholarships are easy to find on college websites.  (but, to be honest, they might evaporate due to covid.  Colleges are hemorrhaging right now; if they can't stabilize their financial situations, scholarships are likely going to be cut.)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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5 hours ago, Mom21 said:

...For those with students who have completed SAT/ACT tests, what do you consider decent or high test scores? (Please share student scores, if you don’t mind.) I am also curious as to which scores resulted in scholarships.

Sharing student scores really won't help you, as what test scores garner a scholarship is different from school to school. So much depends on the specific college your student wants to attend. [ETA: And as 8FillTheHeart mentions above, the pandemic is going to change everything about college costs, scholarships, dorms, and how college courses are offered...]

For one thing, many scholarships are NOT just test-score related ("merit based"), but ALSO are "need-based" -- so the student has to have not only a decent test score, but ALSO,  the family has to have a low EFC number (which is calculated from the FAFSA form, based on family income).

One place to start your research is on the websites of the colleges you are interested in. Colleges often have a chart on their website that shows any automatic merit-based scholarships, matched with test scores required for being offered that scholarship amount.

You can also do internet searches for the statistics of each college you are interested in applying to, and compare your student's test score with the incoming freshmen test scores -- specifically, the average percentile scores and the 75th percentile of scores (i.e., the top 25%). A student whose score falls in the 75th percentile -- i.e., top 25% -- of test scores from incoming freshman to that specific school, is more likely to be offered a partial scholarship. And if the student has a test score that puts them in the 90th-95th percentile (top 5-10%) of incoming freshmen -- then the student stands a very good chance of a scholarship, possibly a full-tuition scholarship.


To answer your question in very, very rough terms: a test score that places the student in the ACT/SAT 90% percentile and above (so an ACT score of 28/29 and above, or an SAT score of 1300 and above) is more likely to be offered a scholarship.

But again, that definitely varies from school to school. For example, when applying to a top-tier/competitive school like Stanford, the average ACT score is 33, out of 36, and the average SAT score is 1465 out of 1600 -- that means a student needs a near-perfect score to be in the top 5-10% of incoming freshmen to be competitive for a merit-based scholarship. Scores of 28/29 (ACT) and 1300 (SAT) means the student doesn't have a chance at being admitted to Stanford, much less getting a merit-based scholarship.

In contrast, for the University of New Mexico, incoming freshmen have an average ACT score of 22 and an average SAT score of 1150 -- which means scores of 28/29 (ACT) or 1300 (SAT), will put the student in the top 5-10% and extremely likely to land a large scholarship.
 

And finally, there are a few (not tons) of scholarships for students with lower test scores. See the directory at Scholarship.com for scholarships by ACT score, and by SAT score -- obviously, the lower the test score is, the more limited the scholarships based on test scores will be, and you would need to go to the school that offers the scholarship.

Below is a chart of the percentiles for ACT/SAT test scores, in case it is of any help. Warmest regards, Lori D.


 

ACT:SAT scores and percentiles.png

Edited by Lori D.
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On 7/17/2020 at 4:45 PM, Lori D. said:

 

But again, that definitely varies from school to school. For example, when applying to a top-tier/competitive school like Stanford, the average ACT score is 33, out of 36, and the average SAT score is 1465 out of 1600 -- that means a student needs a near-perfect score to be in the top 5-10% of incoming freshmen to be competitive for a merit-based scholarship. Scores of 28/29 (ACT) and 1300 (SAT) means the student doesn't have a chance at being admitted to Stanford, much less getting a merit-based scholarship.

 

 

Just to be clear, Stanford  does not offer merit-based scholarships.   You'll probably also find this to be the case at other lottery schools.  

@Lori D. Can you provide a link to the table with the Old SAT score - New SAT score translation?  I'm wondering if by OLD SAT, they mean the one from the 1980s or the less OLD SAT from the early 2000s?  

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2 hours ago, daijobu said:

@Lori D. Can you provide a link to the table with the Old SAT score - New SAT score translation?  I'm wondering if by OLD SAT, they mean the one from the 1980s or the less OLD SAT from the early 2000s?  

The "new" SAT was first put into use in spring 2016.
This post-2016 is the current version, which switched back to the 1600-point score.

"Old" means the pre-2016 SAT, that was put into use from the previous SAT revision in 2005.
So the "old" SAT was in use from 2005-2015.
This pre-2016 SAT is the version that switched to the 2400-point score.

Before that, there was a revision to the SAT in 1994.
That version of the SAT was used from 1994-2004, and used a 1600-point score.

So there have been at least 3 revisions of the SAT since the one you are referring to that was in use in the 1980s.
Here's a short article on "A Brief History of the SAT and How It Changes".
According to this Wikipedia article on the SAT, it looks like prior to 1994, the last substantial change to the SAT happened in 1946.

Here is the website with the chart I embedded, in my post above.
Here's a comparison chart for old (pre-2016, or, 2005-2015 SAT) and new (post-2016) SAT scores.
Here's a conversion tool to translate old (pre-2016, or, 2005-2015 SAT) and new (post-2016) SAT scores.

Hope that helps. 😄 

Edited by Lori D.
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My oldest two both did AP courses. The courses fit with the student's goals and the college goals.  My graduated senior didn't take a single AP exam this year (she wound up not needing them, and didn't want to deal with the hassle it became due to COVID-19). Since she's a math major, she wanted to start with Calc 1 again anyway (she could have started with Calc 3). She was very happy that her AP Physics C exam meant no science in college 😉 (she did AP Bio, but University Physics was required in her major). DS only tested out of about 15 credit hours, DD will still be taking CLEP for a few courses during the next two years (she has to be careful about hours until she gets into the Honors program this fall, she already has 27 credit hours).

My middle two may wind up not doing any. It is highly unlikely that PokeMan will, at any rate (not because he *can't* but because he isn't sure he wants to study that hard for courses that are foundational courses in his major he would want to retake anyway. He can use CLEP at the two schools he is most interested in, and those are much more straightforward exams. Blondie starts high school this year, and I think the only APs she's considering are the Art ones. She will CLEP most of her GenEds as well.  We just don't AP for the sake of AP.  These two would rather spend the required extra study/prep time to get a part-time job. 

Jury is still out on Boo.

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My son did high school without  DE or AP courses. He's an average student with diverse interests, and we were broke. My disclaimer is that I did graduate him a year early so he could start college (mostly for outsourced math courses), but our situation was such that I became a single mom and had started college myself. We also lived in a small town 40 miles from any DE options. 

Anyway, he studied varied subjects of interest like philosophy, Japanese, and computer science at home. He basically unschooled the computer science and in college served as a research assistant to one comp sci professor for two years. 

Looking back, it would have been nice to just DE math and maybe science. He has no regrets and I think he still prefers to learn independently. 

I spent a lot of time researching what sources fit with his particular education. I had to be resourceful because I had more time than money. 

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My daughter (public schooled) did tons of AP's because it guaranteed her the best teachers.  She hated school, but she enjoyed classes with pretty much all of the AP teachers so it was purely self interest.  I do, however, feel that it verified her abilities to colleges that she was aiming for.  But that is her path, which will be very different than her siblings' paths. 

 

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On 7/15/2020 at 11:10 PM, Mom21 said:

What are your reasons for NOT doing AP or Dual Enrollment courses in high school?


We've done DE as prudent.  I can't understand why not for a college bound student.  We did not pursue DE classes for our oldest because there was significant associated costs. We only had her take foreign language at the CC her senior year because of costs.  I live in a state where a significant number of DE CC classes are paid for and because these students are college bound and capable, I prefer them to start at a slow to moderate pace while still in high school.  

However, I do have a sophomore who has significant learning challenges.  While we will allow him to take CC classes that work on a specific trade, I would not allow him to take academic coursework there as it would result in results that would only be a discouragement.  Each child is unique.

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My oldest has done a scattering of AP classes, mostly ones he is interested in, or where the class was the best fit. For example, he did Latin at Lukeion and really liked it and their fourth year of Latin is AP. An excellent Chemistry teacher at our co-op offered an Advanced Chem class that prepped them for the AP exam, but wasn’t an official AP approved class. He liked Chem and her and so he took the class and then took the test.  I also knew he was a good test taker and figured it wouldn’t hurt to have a few outside test scores in addition to what we did at home. He did two AP tests sophomore year, one junior year and is taking several for senior year (two actual online classes, one self-study). I’m not hundred percent sure he’ll do all the AP tests in the spring. He had a bad experience with the testing this spring (was one of the people who had to retake it due to a submission issue) and I’ve told him the goal isn’t to take the test but instead to learn the material and enjoy the classes. 

My rising freshman will likely not do any. He is not a good test taker and he hates learning anything for a test or in a traditional format. He’s a super out-of-the box thinker and he wants to learn stuff that he is interested in. He also is going to need a fairly non-traditional college, I believe, so I’m not worried about whether or not he has test scores. 

My youngest is only 6th grade but she will likely want to take a bunch. She is a very traditional learner and a good test-taker. She gets excited every year when we do standardized testing (a state requirement). And she really likes doing things the conventional way. If all her friends are talking about AP tests, she will want to take them. 

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On 7/21/2020 at 2:14 PM, BlsdMama said:


We've done DE as prudent.  I can't understand why not for a college bound student.  We did not pursue DE classes for our oldest because there was significant associated costs. We only had her take foreign language at the CC her senior year because of costs.  I live in a state where a significant number of DE CC classes are paid for and because these students are college bound and capable, I prefer them to start at a slow to moderate pace while still in high school.  

However, I do have a sophomore who has significant learning challenges.  While we will allow him to take CC classes that work on a specific trade, I would not allow him to take academic coursework there as it would result in results that would only be a discouragement.  Each child is unique.

I think plenty of reasons for not have been shared. It may not fit your vision, but not all top performing kids who are more than capable automatically default to DE for good reason. Our kids have probably earned more scholarship $$ bc they didnt DE. DE costs would have cost less per hr than U costs, but U ended up bring free, so more gained, not lost by not DEing.

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2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I think plenty of reasons for not have been shared. It may not fit your vision, but not all top performing kids who are more than capable automatically default to DE for good reason...

Agreeing. A few more reasons college-bound students might not be able to automatically do DE:
- some students are not ready for the faster pace/higher volume of work of DE while they are in high school
- in some places, DE costs virtually as much as a university, and parents don't have the $$ to pay for it [scholarships are for college students, not DE students]
- sometimes the only DE option available is of low quality, and credits aren't accepted by colleges -- not worth the $$ to do it
- sometimes the commute is just too far to make DE possible, and the student would not do well with online options

I love DE when it's a good fit, fills family goals, allows a student to get a leg up in coursework of their interest, transfer credits towards a degree program, and reduces college costs -- but that doesn't all gel for all students. 😉 

Edited by Lori D.
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