Parents and 1968 Hong King Flu/Pandemic

[matrips]

I’ve read posts on here about parents that don’t seem to take this pandemic seriously.  Or at least as seriously as their children would like. I wonder if some of that comes from past experience. What do your folks remember about it?  I was only 3-4years old, and never heard about it until this current pandemic.  Apparently closures, masks, and social distance weren’t  much of a thing.  Maybe sporadically as needed.  People caught it or they didn’t.  People died or they didn’t.  It didn’t seem political.  It wasn’t on the news all the time.  It was just a virus.  It was part of life (and death). Are we more unused to lots of death?  After all, very few go to war now compared to WW2/Korea/Vietnam.  Why such a drastically different response?   My folks have both passed away so I can’t ask them what they remember.  Just thinking, just curious. That’s all. 🤔😃

[Jean in Newcastle]

My parents and my siblings and I were close to the epicenter of that outbreak in Asia. 

"In comparison to other pandemics, the Hong Kong flu yielded a low death rate, with a case-fatality ratio below 0.5% making it a category 2 disease on the Pandemic Severity Index. The pandemic infected an estimated 500,000 Hong Kong residents, 15% of the population. In the United States, approximately 33,800 people died."  (source: sinobiological)   So no real comparison to what is going on now.  Plus, people already had some immunity to the Hong Kong flu from other flu strains. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Jean in Newcastle
accuracy

[gardenmom5]

I have little memory of it - but some.  I don't think they did anything different.

When i've resorted to trying to educate someone  - I use the spanish flu.  Those areas where people wore masks had lower mortality than places they didn't.

I do think people are less used to things involving death - we've had a hawk move in (yeah!!!), having taken station on my roof at least twice when we were outside.  I'm not seeing as many rabbits. . . . A neighbor was in her yard when it swooped in and grabbed a bunny.  I posted on my local wildlife group that I hoped it would eat mine (since the coyotes haven't been around) and there was at least one person who freaked out.  Hawks have to eat too . . . . . 

[Jean in Newcastle]

People are not overreacting to this pandemic.  If anything, a good portion of the US is under reacting.  A proper reaction doesn't require running around in a panic.  Just a mask and social distancing will do. 

[BeachGal]

I don’t know about the 1968 pandemic but when polio would strike an area, parents would leave with their children, if possible. If a child had it, a parent would stay and the rest of the family would leave if they could. The door would have a notice saying “Notice. This house is under quarantine.” to keep others away. One of my neighbors had polio in Texas and that’s what he mentioned. He walks with a limp but is otherwise okay.

[marbel]

I was 12 in 1968; my father, who was never sick, stayed home from work for a some days with it. I remember being very scared that he would die, but I don't think that was so much because I knew that the flu was very dangerous and/or people were afraid, but because I had never seen him miss a day of work. 

In 1968 every piece of information was not immediately available for consumption and analysis. I was only 12 so can't comment on the political side of it, but my sense is that everything was not seen through a political/partisan lens as it seems to be now. I believe that people had more trust in government leadership, though maybe that is just because I was oblivious or because my parents were not very political (though they typically did not vote the same way). 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

My parents and my siblings and I were close to the epicenter of that outbreak in Asia. 

"In comparison to other pandemics, the Hong Kong flu yielded a low death rate, with a case-fatality ratio below 0.5% making it a category 2 disease on the Pandemic Severity Index. The pandemic infected an estimated 500,000 Hong Kong residents, 15% of the population. In the United States, approximately 33,800 people died."  (source: sinobiological)   So no real comparison to what is going on now.  Plus, people already had some immunity to the Hong Kong flu from other flu strains. 

Quoting myself to say that as of today's Worldometer, 139,685 people have died in the US alone.  No comparison. 

And my mother, who did go through the outbreak in Asia is still very sharp and is taking this pandemic seriously. 

[JennyD]

As Jean said, the 1968 flu does not really compare to the current situation in terms of scope or severity.

But both my parents grew up in NYC and have vivid memories of not being allowed outside in the summertime because of polio.  My mother says that they all knew other children who had contracted the virus, some of whom were paralyzed or died, and that parents were absolutely terrified. This podcast discusses the stay-at-home orders for polio and what it was like when the vaccine was invented.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by JennyD

[prairiewindmomma]

Agreeing with the others...the 1968 does not compare. I spoke with my elderly relatives (childhoods 1920s and 1930s)—they remember quarantine signs being hung in the windows for childhood illnesses, county visiting nurses coming to verify illness, and not being allowed to play with the neighbors when illness was in a community. They also remember family and friends dying, and stories of life before antibiotics (and how horrific that was).

I think there is a generational gap. The Boomers grew up in a world or vaccinations, antibiotics, and relatively few public health interventions. They have really seen little of death.
 

 

[matrips]

41 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

My parents and my siblings and I were close to the epicenter of that outbreak in Asia. 

"In comparison to other pandemics, the Hong Kong flu yielded a low death rate, with a case-fatality ratio below 0.5% making it a category 2 disease on the Pandemic Severity Index. The pandemic infected an estimated 500,000 Hong Kong residents, 15% of the population. In the United States, approximately 33,800 people died."  (source: sinobiological)   So no real comparison to what is going on now.  Plus, people already had some immunity to the Hong Kong flu from other flu strains. 

Everything I read said over 100,000 in US died and worldwide anywhere from 1-4 million.

[Bootsie]

During the Hong Kong flu epidemic, my mother was pregnant (which was a high risk group) and my father was working in infectious disease for a state public health department in one of the hardest hit states and I was in kindergarten/first grade.  My mom doesn't remember any specific precautions and schools where I lived did not close.  It did seem to be something people just expected to get--even the President Johnson had it.  Would astronauts take to it space?  Then what?  I can remember some of that type of discussion.  My mom doesn't remember anything particular about the 1957 flu pandemic either.    

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, matrips said:

Everything I read said over 100,000 in US died and worldwide anywhere from 1-4 million.

The epidemic came back subsequent years so there was a tally that was comprised of a number of different years. Not just the seven months we’ve had so far (and which is nowhere near finished). 

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, matrips said:

I’ve read posts on here about parents that don’t seem to take this pandemic seriously.  Or at least as seriously as their children would like. I wonder if some of that comes from past experience. What do your folks remember about it?  I was only 3-4years old, and never heard about it until this current pandemic.  Apparently closures, masks, and social distance weren’t  much of a thing.  Maybe sporadically as needed.  People caught it or they didn’t.  People died or they didn’t.  It didn’t seem political.  It wasn’t on the news all the time.  It was just a virus.  It was part of life (and death). Are we more unused to lots of death?  After all, very few go to war now compared to WW2/Korea/Vietnam.  Why such a drastically different response?   My folks have both passed away so I can’t ask them what they remember.  Just thinking, just curious. That’s all. 🤔😃

I looked this up last time it came up.  There was an effective vaccine in wide production within two months of the pandemic hitting American shores.  So, there's that.

I think if we'd had an effective vaccine by May, with millions of doses administered by now, there would also be a different response to this virus.

Here's a timeline of the Hong Kong flu, # of cases, the vaccine and # of doses:

Edited July 15, 2020 by Matryoshka

[vonfirmath]

14 minutes ago, matrips said:

Everything I read said over 100,000 in US died and worldwide anywhere from 1-4 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

 

Wikipedia said US deaths were between 34K and 100K -- a wide variation.

 

[Matryoshka]

3 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

Wikipedia said US deaths were between 34K and 100K -- a wide variation.

Also, that was over two years, not a few months, with no vaccine in sight.

[Matryoshka]

18 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

During the Hong Kong flu epidemic, my mother was pregnant (which was a high risk group) and my father was working in infectious disease for a state public health department in one of the hardest hit states and I was in kindergarten/first grade.  My mom doesn't remember any specific precautions and schools where I lived did not close.  It did seem to be something people just expected to get--even the President Johnson had it.  Would astronauts take to it space?  Then what?  I can remember some of that type of discussion.  My mom doesn't remember anything particular about the 1957 flu pandemic either.    

The astronauts were vaccinated before they went into space.  From the NIH article I linked the above vaccine chart from: In December, the Apollo 8 astronauts were vaccinated to protect them from pandemic influenza in advance of their December 21 moon-orbiting flight, 

[Bootsie]

8 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

The astronauts were vaccinated before they went into space.  From the NIH article I linked the above vaccine chart from: In December, the Apollo 8 astronauts were vaccinated to protect them from pandemic influenza in advance of their December 21 moon-orbiting flight, 

Apollo 8 commander Frank Borman came down with Hong Kong flu symptoms while in orbit.

[Matryoshka]

Guess they didn't catch him in time?

No, wait, I looked it up. 18 hours into the flight he had a stomach bug - his symptoms were vomiting and diarrhea, and he was better the next day. They called mission control and told him to carry on.  From an article on the mission: 

Just 18 hours after launch, Apollo 8 experienced a major problem: Borman fell ill and struggled through vomiting and diarrhea. The commander felt better after getting some sleep, but as a precaution, the other crewmembers radioed to Earth on a private channel and explained Borman's predicament. NASA performed a private medical consultation for Borman. When hearing that Borman's health had improved, NASA cautiously gave the approval to continue with the mission.

 

Symptoms of the HK flu were quite different and lasted longer: Infection caused upper respiratory symptoms typical of influenza and produced symptoms of chills, fever, and muscle pain and weakness. These symptoms usually persisted for between four and six days.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Matryoshka

[J-rap]

I had the Hong Kong flu when I was in early elementary school, living near San Francisco.  From what I remember, it was thought to be similar to any other flu, just a different strain.  But obviously I only had a child's perspective of it and don't have clear memories.

[Lady Florida.]

I turned 13 late that year and we were still living in NJ (moved to FL the following summer). I have no memory of it at all. I never remember anyone wearing masks either in Jersey or Florida during any flu season.

That flu was not a novel virus. It's currently one of the seasonal flu viruses. It was not as deadly as Covid-19.We're already well past the number of U.S deaths from that flu. I've seen comparisons to that flu pandemic (even though I don'r remember it being a problem) and it's just like all the comparisons to the flu. This virus is not "just like the flu". 

I'm now one of those parents and grandparents. I wear my mask anywhere I go, though I try to go out only as necessary. And lately I won't patronize businesses that don't require masks. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

I turned 13 late that year and we were still living in NJ (moved to FL the following summer). I have no memory of it at all. I never remember anyone wearing masks either in Jersey or Florida during any flu season.

That flu was not a novel virus. It's currently one of the seasonal flu viruses. It was not as deadly as Covid-19.We're already well past the number of U.S deaths from that flu. I've seen comparisons to that flu pandemic (even though I don'r remember it being a problem) and it's just like all the comparisons to the flu. This virus is not "just like the flu". 

I'm now one of those parents and grandparents. I wear my mask anywhere I go, though I try to go out only as necessary. And lately I won't patronize businesses that don't require masks. 

I do think that flu had a higher CFR than most other flus, and I think that may have been the first time the H3N2 flu variant circulated (it hadn't been one of the seasonal variants, though it is now) - which made it kinda-sorta novel - but at the same time it was a flu, we knew how to do flu vaccines, so the vaccine came out in almost no time.  Similar to what happened with the H1N1 hustle a few years back. 

Very different than coming up with a vaccine for a type of virus we've never had a vaccine for before, and for a type of virus that typically doesn't offer long-term immunity.  

I think that we can all agree that if we had an effective vaccine for this thing, we'd be in a much different place.  It also would have been really nice if this had turned out to be a seasonal virus that faded in hot weather - but it seems it's completely happy spreading itself about in hot weather too.  I

Edited July 16, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Pen]

20 hours ago, matrips said:

I’ve read posts on here about parents that don’t seem to take this pandemic seriously.  Or at least as seriously as their children would like. I wonder if some of that comes from past experience. What do your folks remember about it?  I was only 3-4years old, and never heard about it until this current pandemic.  Apparently closures, masks, and social distance weren’t  much of a thing.  Maybe sporadically as needed.  People caught it or they didn’t.  People died or they didn’t.  It didn’t seem political.  It wasn’t on the news all the time.  It was just a virus.  It was part of life (and death). Are we more unused to lots of death?  After all, very few go to war now compared to WW2/Korea/Vietnam.  Why such a drastically different response?   My folks have both passed away so I can’t ask them what they remember.  Just thinking, just curious. That’s all. 🤔😃

 

I think it might be best to ask the particular people you have in mind.

 

Many parents **do** take this pandemic seriously. 

OTOH, I don’t think people took VietNam, WW2, Korea as “normal” and okay.

My recollection of the Hong Kong ‘68 flu is that it was not in the same order of magnitude as CV19.  Not even close in virulence, parts of body affected, extended illness, etc. 

 

[Bootsie]

19 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

I looked this up last time it came up.  There was an effective vaccine in wide production within two months of the pandemic hitting American shores.  So, there's that.

I think if we'd had an effective vaccine by May, with millions of doses administered by now, there would also be a different response to this virus.

Here's a timeline of the Hong Kong flu, # of cases, the vaccine and # of doses:

I am curious where you found this chart.  Most things I am seeing say there was not a vaccine available until August 1969

[Matryoshka]

13 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am curious where you found this chart.  Most things I am seeing say there was not a vaccine available until August 1969

I already linked it upthread. Here it is again.  It from the National Institute of Health/US National Library of Medicine.  Figure that is a reliable source.

Also from that article:

VACCINE

The Division of Biologics Standards of the National Institutes of Health provided the A/Hong Kong/1968 (H3N2) vaccine virus to manufacturers in August 1968. However, before manufacturers had completed studies to determine its feasibility for producing a pandemic vaccine, a new vaccine virus became available. This virus, the Aichi strain from Japan, demonstrated superior vaccine production potential and was supplied to manufacturers on September 9, 1968, 49 and incorporated into a monovalent pandemic influenza vaccine.

Vaccine manufacturers released a first lot of 110 000 pandemic vaccine doses on November 15, 1968. Subsequently, 15 million doses became available by the pandemic’s peak50 in January 196951 (Figure 2). After the peak, vaccine demand waned.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

I already linked it upthread. Here it is again.  It from the National Institute of Health/US National Library of Medicine.  Figure that is a reliable source.

Also from that article:

VACCINE

The Division of Biologics Standards of the National Institutes of Health provided the A/Hong Kong/1968 (H3N2) vaccine virus to manufacturers in August 1968. However, before manufacturers had completed studies to determine its feasibility for producing a pandemic vaccine, a new vaccine virus became available. This virus, the Aichi strain from Japan, demonstrated superior vaccine production potential and was supplied to manufacturers on September 9, 1968, 49 and incorporated into a monovalent pandemic influenza vaccine.

Vaccine manufacturers released a first lot of 110 000 pandemic vaccine doses on November 15, 1968. Subsequently, 15 million doses became available by the pandemic’s peak50 in January 196951 (Figure 2). After the peak, vaccine demand waned.

Thanks.  I didn't get that the link was also the source of the graph in the other post.