I can admit when I was wrong

[Violet Crown]

Yeah I think I agree with everything there. The confusion is terrible, people need to make plans, and some people are already swooping in to make money off of the chaos.

[katilac]

 

11 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Gaps. Big ones. It’s not a big deal to some people but having moved my peeps a lot, avoiding them is very important to me. This isn’t really an issue for littles tho. Also, end of course exams. If you use unaligned content your kids may not be able to pass  the exams.

Right, I think the post was referencing like first- and second-graders. Upper grades are a different ball game, but I wish people would have less anxiety over their littles. I know the anxiety is induced by the education machine in this country, and I hate that it makes people stress and think grueling days are required for 6-yr-olds 😕

 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Violet Crown said:

Dunno ... I've been whispering Proverbs 3:24 into Wee Girl's ear since at least that age. 🙂 Maybe someday it'll take!

On the topic: our NextDoor features lately a for-profit company encouraging parents to sign up for their "learning pods" (for a fee of course). In reality, under state law what they're putting together are unaccredited private schools, which will be subject to the same shutdown orders as any other school. But they insist that these aren't "private schools," no, they're just groups of families coming together to form "something like a nanny pool," except they'll be hiring an educational professional to, um, tutor. You might think that there were possibly some legal issues to pay attention to, but apparently the plan is to get a membership with the Texas Homeschool Coalition. It's homeschooling, no it's a co-op, no it's a pod, no it's something they don't have a name for but it's really exciting and innovative.

Yes, exciting and innovative for the person getting paid, lol. 

Here is the thing. If your only other option is a full crowded classroom, a small pod is safer. 

If you have the money, however, to pay for a very expensive pod/tutor/whatever...there is a decent chance you can just afford to keep your kid home. And if you are in an area with a lot cases and you can keep your kid HOME, you SHOULD, because the entire point of a school shut down is to stop the spread of the virus. And the quicker we get the spread under control the faster schools can open up!

That said, for safer areas, or people who don't have that ability, etc...a pod is better than a full classroom, safety wise, particularly if they will do it by FAMILY instead of by AGE. But you don't need an expensive tutor for that. 

 

[katilac]

44 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Here is the thing. If your only other option is a full crowded classroom, a small pod is safer. 

If you have the money, however, to pay for a very expensive pod/tutor/whatever...there is a decent chance you can just afford to keep your kid home.  

 

I would actually assume that a lot of the families can afford a pod or microschool because both of them are working. 

[wathe]

7 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I (a 13 year homeschooler, lol) appreciate this being said.
I’ve been feeling some guilt for being not-so-academically-focused since Feb/Mar., and there are multiple reasons in my household, but the giant major one is, you know, my kids are living through a pandemic.  Most of their favorite things In life are gone for now. Many of my favorite things about homeschooling are gone right now. There’s still stuff that does have to be done, but my main priorities have to be health and overall well-being.

This made me sad-chuckle. I vividly remember meeting to register my oldest for pre-k in 2002, and I was explicitly asked about his cutting skills. Which he did not have. Nearly 20 years later, the absurdity of the question does make me laugh but, at the time, I felt like a real crappy parent.

I remember kindergarten registration for myself when I was 5.  I couldn't catch the ball they threw to me (assume gross motor skills assessment).  I remember feeling deeply ashamed that I wasn't up to scratch for kindergarten.

Edited July 19, 2020 by wathe

[ktgrok]

I may or may not have mentioned to parents that no college application will ever ask what age their child learned to read, nor will there be a spot for that on their resume. 

Seriously, people are so concerned, as if a kid can't pick up scissors and paste at age 5 fairly quickly, if they didn't do enough at age 3. My sister told me her daughter was "behind" in cutting in preschool, at 2 yrs old. I was flabbergasted. I was still doing everything I could to keep all scissors AWAY from my 2 yr old! A class of 2 yr olds all with scissors was mind boggling....and terrifying, frankly. The hair! The books! Nothing would be safe, lol. 

So call me crazy, but I'm more worried about my 2 yr old NOT cutting stuff , than cutting stuff. Maybe that will keep them out of the Ivy League, but I doubt it. 

[Matryoshka]

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I may or may not have mentioned to parents that no college application will ever ask what age their child learned to read, nor will there be a spot for that on their resume. 

Seriously, people are so concerned, as if a kid can't pick up scissors and paste at age 5 fairly quickly, if they didn't do enough at age 3. My sister told me her daughter was "behind" in cutting in preschool, at 2 yrs old. I was flabbergasted. I was still doing everything I could to keep all scissors AWAY from my 2 yr old! A class of 2 yr olds all with scissors was mind boggling....and terrifying, frankly. The hair! The books! Nothing would be safe, lol. 

So call me crazy, but I'm more worried about my 2 yr old NOT cutting stuff , than cutting stuff. Maybe that will keep them out of the Ivy League, but I doubt it. 

Meanwhile,  JoAann's told my then 16yo they wouldn't hire anyone under 18, because ... scissors.  Too dangerous.  Apparently considered 'industrial tools'  ... I personally worked at a fabric shop at 16, used scissors liberally, and can attest that I did not sever any body parts, either on myself or others...

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Matryoshka

[alisoncooks]

I'm seeing a TON of FB posts about the formation of these "micro pods" (like described above).  Also about the creation/use of communal workspaces (pay by the hour). I guess the logic is that it's safer to be around a few than a lot...but still.  Just teach your own darn kids.  

I'm super judge-y today. And grumpy. (I'm venting here so I won't get kicked out of the local homeschool FB group.)

[itsheresomewhere]

9 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I (a 13 year homeschooler, lol) appreciate this being said.
I’ve been feeling some guilt for being not-so-academically-focused since Feb/Mar., and there are multiple reasons in my household, but the giant major one is, you know, my kids are living through a pandemic.  Most of their favorite things In life are gone for now. Many of my favorite things about homeschooling are gone right now. There’s still stuff that does have to be done, but my main priorities have to be health and overall well-being.

This made me sad-chuckle. I vividly remember meeting to register my oldest for pre-k in 2002, and I was explicitly asked about his cutting skills. Which he did not have. Nearly 20 years later, the absurdity of the question does make me laugh but, at the time, I felt like a real crappy parent.

When my youngest was kindergarten age, she had to take a readiness test for it at the public school.  They insisted she wasn’t ready as she didn’t tell them her address or phone number. When I asked her why she didn’t, she answered very matter of fact-  “ They are strangers.”

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

 Seriously, people are so concerned, as if a kid can't pick up scissors and paste at age 5 fairly quickly, if they didn't do enough at age 3.  

It actually can be a concern, in the sense that some kids can't use scissors or hold pencils at 5 and won't pick it up quickly bc there is an underlying reason. Sometimes an inherent physical reason, sometimes the child hasn't had much chance to use their motor skills at all, so their hands and fingers are weak and floppy. These skills can be a red flag for things like hand strength, vision tracking, and so on. The expectations will be different for 2 and 5, of course, but I can see a teacher telling the parent that the child needs lots of practice in motor skills and the parent interpreting that more along the lines of 'my child is behind in cutting and pasting' lol. 

44 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

Just teach your own darn kids.  

Many people are not suited to teach their own kids, or any kids, lol, and I totally respect parents who recognize that about themselves. 

42 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

But these are such mundane things- cutting and pasting??!

It seems really mundane to us, bc most of us have some awareness of developmental milestones and a healthy learning/growing environment for young kids. But you would be astonished at the number of parents who have no idea that their kids should be given plenty of opportunities to practice gross and fine motor skills in their day to day life. When my kids were in preschool, there was always at least one kid who couldn't hold a crayon, much less a pencil. Not hold it correctly,  mind you, but just hold onto it for longer than a few seconds, because they had never really played with puzzles OR blocks OR playdough OR finger paints OR crayons, etc, at home. And this was not a free preschool, so not families who had no resources. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by katilac

[alisoncooks]

5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I’m there with you. 

I know there are many who are in tough spots. But the ones I’m seeing in my fb groups are mostly whining. They are able to monitor their children’s education comfortably at home. They just don’t wanna. 

Yep. It's the blind leading the blind. And I feel there's some degree of taking-advantage-of/profiting-from-crisis going on, too. People are freaking out and more than happy to fork out the cash for someone to do the work for them (even though that person has about 2 seconds more experience than they). 

 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Meanwhile,  JoAann's told my then 16yo they wouldn't hire anyone under 18, because ... scissors.  Too dangerous.  Apparently considered 'industrial tools'  ... I personally worked at a fabric shop at 16, used scissors liberally, and can attest that I did not sever any body parts, either on myself or others...

 

That sums up American education perfectly. We worry that 2 year olds are behind if they can't cut properly with scissors, while also thinking 16 yr olds are not mature enough to handle scissors. 

55 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I’m there with you. 

I know there are many who are in tough spots. But the ones I’m seeing in my fb groups are mostly whining. They are able to monitor their children’s education comfortably at home. They just don’t wanna. 

Same. They are all stay at home moms. Intelligent women. Capable parents. There is zero reason they can't handle this. They are willing to risk their lives to not have to deal with their kids all day. 

[cintinative]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I may or may not have mentioned to parents that no college application will ever ask what age their child learned to read, nor will there be a spot for that on their resume. 

Seriously, people are so concerned, as if a kid can't pick up scissors and paste at age 5 fairly quickly, if they didn't do enough at age 3. My sister told me her daughter was "behind" in cutting in preschool, at 2 yrs old. I was flabbergasted. I was still doing everything I could to keep all scissors AWAY from my 2 yr old! A class of 2 yr olds all with scissors was mind boggling....and terrifying, frankly. The hair! The books! Nothing would be safe, lol. 

So call me crazy, but I'm more worried about my 2 yr old NOT cutting stuff , than cutting stuff. Maybe that will keep them out of the Ivy League, but I doubt it. 

 My friend used to say: there are two kinds of kids: Kids that struggle with cutting, and those that cut their own hair. LOL. My boys "failed" cutting in preschool. 

[Paige]

My girls got put in the "special" class because they wouldn't say one word to the evaluator (and maybe because one DD had CP, but it doesn't affect her learning). They were just shy. The special class was for all the kids who had issues- yep they put them all in one classroom so the other teachers didn't have to accommodate anyone.

[theelfqueen]

On the other side of this, my mother in law was explaining to me how we should stop homeschooling to take advantage of online school options (describing things specific to her area...  on the other side of the country, which she feels are inadequate for nephew but would surely be better than what we are doing because "real teachers") note that I AM a "real teacher" LOL and his mentor this year is a retired general, with a doctorate who was until recently the head of a department at a respected university.... 

[Violet Crown]

47 minutes ago, Plum said:

When are we going to see complaints that homeschoolers don't get tax breaks or education discounts? Anyone see that yet? That's a change I could get behind. 

Not me. "We keep our hands off your tax money; you keep your hands off our curriculum." The day we start getting anything from the state will be the day the draconian testing regime that drives so many families to homeschool will be inflicted on us.

[YaelAldrich]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

When are we going to see complaints that homeschoolers don't get tax breaks or education discounts? Anyone see that yet? That's a change I could get behind. 

I got that on my bingo card yesterday. You better believe I told them what most homeschoolers think about that! 

On a good note the one woman who has been bugging me about how to form a pandemic pod (mini school) finally got on our state's HS support group FB page. She saw my post about her 😏 but she realized homeschooling in our Commonwealth is pretty darn easy. So she's going the DIY route! Yay!

[katilac]

3 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

 The interesting thing was that *without exception* the dads wanted their kids homeschooled.   

Well, sure. It's super easy to want the kids homeschooled when you're not the one doing it, lol. 

I think that people knowing that homeschooling is not for them is a good thing. Not everyone is cut out to be a homeschool parent, just as not everyone is cut out to be a classroom teacher. 

[SereneHome]

Well, in addition to   "how do I duplicate our school's curriculum" people are now asking  "which 500 different co-ops can my children join so G-d forbid they don't get behind on their socialization skills?"

This is going to be a fun fun year!

[katilac]

15 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

It doesn’t invalidate the desire, though.  The dads were also the ones having to bust it to get $100,000 extra a year for private school tuition for three kids.  

They didn't have to, they chose to, because the choice was not between homeschooling or $100,000 in tuition. If they didn't want to bust it for the private school, the kids could have gone to public school. 

 I'm willing to bet that many of those dads were just humble-bragging when they moaned about paying six figure tuition instead of homeschooling, but then again I am the suspicious sort.  

[YaelAldrich]

Today's questions have been, "My cousin lives in MA and she can't find any homeschool groups."  REALLY?!  And, "Does homeschooling cost money?"  Yes, Margaret,  feeding the kids and keeping them in clothes as well as gas to get to the library or whatever to find curriculum will cost money.  Dear G-d, so many people, so few who really need to educate their children.

[Wheres Toto]

We've seen the money for homeschooling questions on our local groups.  Usually in a "MY TAXES" kind of way.  Yes, the real homeschoolers jump all over them because we have no regulations and most want to keep it that way.   There's always a small bit of panic locally (usually those who belong to HSLDA) that stricter restrictions are coming any time and they are terrified anytime they see anything that may be a push in that direction.   

[EmilyGF]

7 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

You might be right.  I’ve not gone into enough detail to make this a fair conversation.  I can only say what I saw—and I really don’t think they were humble-bragging.  I think they were concerned for their children. 
in this  neighborhood at that time, we were considered a little déclassé —and maybe financial failures — who else would homeschool.
 

eta These were all just the nicest people—I’m truly not mocking them   Some of them are more useful to good deeds for the world than I and their kids were gems   I’m not at all crabby about them or in any way feeling superior.   Well, maybe I would be happier had my taxes not gone up for their bus service   But other than that...just so glad they weee my neighbors   

 And I had zero support from my then-church, as well.

 

7 hours ago, katilac said:

They didn't have to, they chose to, because the choice was not between homeschooling or $100,000 in tuition. If they didn't want to bust it for the private school, the kids could have gone to public school. 

 I'm willing to bet that many of those dads were just humble-bragging when they moaned about paying six figure tuition instead of homeschooling, but then again I am the suspicious sort.  

If I remember correctly, Patty Joanna lives in a very techie neighborhood. My parents do, too. When I visit them, I find that nearly every single one of their neighbors says something like, "I wish I'd been homeschooled," or "Wow, that's great." I think the tech ethic and personality fits pretty well with homeschooling. These are people who have started very successful tech companies or are Google executives.

OTOH, where I live in a top university community, the normal response is something like, "Hmm. I've always wondered why someone would homeschool." The contrast is why I noticed it.

Emily

[Carrie12345]

9 hours ago, katilac said:

Well, sure. It's super easy to want the kids homeschooled when you're not the one doing it, lol. 

I think that people knowing that homeschooling is not for them is a good thing. Not everyone is cut out to be a homeschool parent, just as not everyone is cut out to be a classroom teacher. 

ABSOLUTELY!
It’s really tempting for me to think about offering up affordable “slots” to 2 or 3 kids. I really like teaching certain classes to certain age groups, but the idea of teaching OPKs all the subjects, all year?  Nope, nope, nope. I’m already aiming for at least 50% self-directed for my own kids.

On the other hand, my sister is now an accidental K homeschooler, and she may be working with a family or two. She has the patience, creativity, and energy to do that, and really needs the money. She could carve out a pretty good long-term gig if she wants to (particularly for her area.)

[historically accurate]

On 7/19/2020 at 12:56 PM, wathe said:

I remember kindergarten registration for myself when I was 5.  I couldn't catch the ball they threw to me (assume gross motor skills assessment).  I remember feeling deeply ashamed that I wasn't up to scratch for kindergarten.

I caught the ball, but I refused to throw it back. Hey, it was a nice ball; I wanted to keep it for a while. The tester got all huffy and left the room after telling my mom that testing was over and come back in a year. When she left the room, I whipped the ball at her and whacked her right in the middle of her back. Somehow, my mom won the fight with the school, and I started Kindergarten that year LOL. 

[ktgrok]

At my kindergarten, catching a ball was something you had to do during the year, not to get in. Which is good, as my report card shows I didn't master that skill until the third marking period, lol. 

[theelfqueen]

For me it was skipping..  I couldn't skip to get into Kindergarten- I could read but not skip. 

[Jentrovert]

8 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Something I’m interested to see shake out re: online learning for the masses, is this is a pretty big paradigm shift for teachers. Most teachers ( I know not all, but most) aren’t specialists in their topic. They are specialists in managing children. We talk all the time here about how so many aren’t even comfortable or familiar with the subject they teach, much less have specialized degrees in the subjects they’re teaching. Math for instance. Managing some kids on Zoom isn’t really classroom management. I am curious if this new platform is going to illustrate the issue with having managers, rather than content specialists, teaching things. 
 

The online teachers I have used were experts in their topics. They were experts of their field first, and then online teachers second- it was simply the medium. They didn’t have education degrees. I think that’s a big difference. 
 

Anyway, I am curious how well having managers trying to teach content online long term is going to shake out. I think online teaching actually has a much higher bar to be good at it- particularly as subject matter becomes more complex. 

Along a similar line, I've been curious about how it will work out for the teachers (those who are, as you say, more like managers) who are hired by parents to "professionally homeschool".  Will they easily transition to individual tutoring? What happens when parents realize they are not hiring people with subject matter expertise, but are paying a premium for supervisors? And on and on. So many things to shake out.

[Wheres Toto]

33 minutes ago, Jentrovert said:

Along a similar line, I've been curious about how it will work out for the teachers (those who are, as you say, more like managers) who are hired by parents to "professionally homeschool".  Will they easily transition to individual tutoring? What happens when parents realize they are not hiring people with subject matter expertise, but are paying a premium for supervisors? And on and on. So many things to shake out.

Honestly, I think the majority of parents will never come to that realization.  They are hiring someone because they are at work or unable to do it themselves so they probably won't be watching enough to tell the difference.  

Around here many teachers also tutor part time. 

[Ausmumof3]

On 7/20/2020 at 4:19 AM, Matryoshka said:

Meanwhile,  JoAann's told my then 16yo they wouldn't hire anyone under 18, because ... scissors.  Too dangerous.  Apparently considered 'industrial tools'  ... I personally worked at a fabric shop at 16, used scissors liberally, and can attest that I did not sever any body parts, either on myself or others...

 

Many businesses here don’t hire under eighteens any more because the working with children screening makes it too much work or so I’m told.

[bolt.]

I'm fascinated by all of these stories of "kindergarten evaluations" -- I've never heard of that whatsoever. Here you just register your kid when they are the right age and send them on the first day of school. Anything the teacher needs to know about their level of pre-learning is pretty simple to find out during normal classroom interactions. (Do the evaluations result in a yes/no for kindergarten entry? Or is it just an FYI for teachers?)

[Ausmumof3]

Did you all see the Christian Science monitor article on it.  They quote SWB in it!

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2020/0722/More-parents-are-home-schooling.-How-that-will-change-public-education

[katilac]

2 hours ago, ThatBookwormMom said:

"This is a moment for creativity and innovation in home schooling — but also for guidelines and regulation when necessary." (From the article quoted above.)

Not trying to be flippant, but does anyone else hear Delores Umbridge?

The role of Delores Umbridge is already being played by Betsy DeVos in this melodrama 😄