Kitchen Renovation

[Paige]

Are they really as expensive as the internet says? I mean- $20,000-60,000 average? We have to redo some parts of our kitchen. Some things aren't up to code, whoever put our cabinets in went super cheap and they're falling apart, and while I'm at it, I'd really like to be able to make the horrible design more functional. But if it's honestly going to be 20,000+ I doubt it's worth calling someone in for an estimate. We redid some things in our first house and I'm sure it wasn't more than $4000 but that was 16 years ago. 

Our kitchen is tiny. We only have about 2 (not very long) walls in use now and a small, hideous island. Surely a smaller area is cheaper? I want to replace the cabinets and island, and move and replace the double wall ovens and separate gas cooktop with a pull in single induction oven with a vent hood or microwave on top- I don't really care. I also want to replace our double sink with a larger single sink. Our ovens, cooktop, and sink were made for munchkins and are about 2/3 the size of normal ones. To save money, I'd leave the island's footprint alone so we don't have to replace the floors. It would be nice to find room for more cabinet/counter space but I can live without it. 

[teachermom2834]

I think a kitchen can easily get to $20,000. We had a decent size bathroom redone with nothing fancy and it was almost $9000. We actually just got quotes to completely redo a very small basement bathroom and one quote was about $5500 and the other was $13,000!! I don't find the internet estimate thing to be very reliable. I would call people in for a couple estimates to at least see what it would be. Sometimes then you can get suggestions on a less expensive way to do things. 

[Paige]

8 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Cabinets, tile, and appliances get expensive fast. If you do it yourselves and are thrifty, in an area without ridiculous permit costs, I think you can get away with under 20k. Are you doing the work yourselves? Labor is 30-50% of the cost of these things.

Our kitchen is bigger and cost about 10-13k, I’d estimate, but we reused and just painted the cabinets, put on new hardware, replaced appliances (which meant changing the cabinet spacing of the existing boxes), redid the electrical, changed the sink and faucet, tiled, put on new counters, and painted. A minor reno in terms of things because no walls or utilities moved, and we DIYed entirely.

The things you’re talking about are in a small footprint which can be much worse to work in, tighter! And moving gas lines and such takes time and expense, even though it isn’t hard per se (we added gas to this kitchen by extending the existing line from the fireplace 😉 ). But I’d expect a good chunk of change, including an appliance package that would be easily 2k, plus a sink and faucet that could be another 1k, plus countertops which can run anywhere from $30-90 per square foot at Home Depot. It just adds up. 

I don’t like your words. 🤣

If we could keep it to 10-15 it would be good. I may have to prioritize my needs. I don’t think we’ll need to move the gas line because I don’t intend to use it anywhere. I think we could just cap it which would be easier. We don’t need to move water either. We might need a different outlet on the wall for induction though. I’d move the ovens about 2 feet over and was hoping it was close enough that electric may still work if the outlet is the right kind.
 

I should measure our counter space and see how many sq ft we’re looking at as a minimum. I’m not even sure if it’s really 2 full walls- more like 1.75 of wall space. We don’t need a new dishwasher or fridge- those were replaced rather recently. We wouldn’t move walls- it would be impossible because the only walls are load bearing. I could expand the pantry into the laundry room but I’m not sure it would be worth it.

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

We have a tiny kitchen and are currently remodeling. yes, it is expensive.

Our house is a  Sear's kit house built in the 20s and the last kitchen update was completed in the 60s. The kitchen is so small we budgeted $10,000.  The kitchen has handmade cabinets built directly into the lathe and plaster, no insulation in the walls. The appliances were spaced oddly - the refrigerator was placed in a spot that partially blocked the side entry and the stairs to the basement. In order to bring up laundry, I had to use tiny baskets. and turn sideways. Anything larger than a basket had to be carried outside, around the house and through the front door. The gas stove was placed underneath a window. We wanted and needed to reconfigure the kitchen to be more user friendly.

When we went for cabinet estimates, none of the standard cabinets would fit the new design and we were told they (Lowes & Menards) would only replace the current cabinets and design. The kitchen's measurements are just off enough that the instock cabinets were never going to work. We called a couple of building supply companies and an independent contractor and they all agreed - standard cabinets weren't going to work. So custom built cabinets are what we went with. Without being able to shop off the floor from Menards or Lowes, which was our plan, the cost of the remodel already was 1/3 more expensive than planned. When DH did the demo (we chose to do demo to save money) we discovered plumbing issues, support issues, and, wiring issues. Whoever did the last bathroom remodel, cut through the support beams in order to install the cast iron tub. There's less than two inches of wood left  on a 12 inch support beam. That beam needed to be bolstered. 

To make a long story short - we have to upgrade all of the electrical, the plumbing, and the ceiling supports.  We need new insulation and new drywall. We need custom cabinets to fit the space. We need new, smaller appliances in order to make the new cabinets fit. We have already spent what we allotted and my kitchen is currently down to studs. (I have lived through the SIP order with a either a partial or no kitchen. ) We estimate we will have spent $25,000 - 30,000 by the time it's all said and done. On a kitchen the size of a postage stamp.  Most of this is money we won't be able to recoup when we sell since it was spent on necessary repairs of shoddy workmanship.  We didn't add square footage or choose high end materials.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Here's a pic of the kitchen as it is today. This is the window the gas stove sat under. The white line on the left is where the fridge has been moved and is the end of the wall on that side.

[gardenmom5]

Cabinets are the biggest expense in a kitchen remodel.   And that can vary widely with number of cabinets, type of cabinets, and quality of cabinets.

salvagers will sell cabinets removed from homes.  sometimes they need painting/refinishing.  that can still save a lot.  some people have found the used boxes they needed - then redid the doors the way they wanted.

what you use for counter tops can vary widely in price.  custom slab granite is more than "pieced" granite, than tile, than formica.

doing cabinet installation yourself vs paying someone to do everything.

if would probably be worth it for you to look into it at least to get estimates.  

[Sherry in OH]

Kitchens are expensive.   Smaller footprint means fewer cabinets, shorter countertop runs, less backsplash, and less flooring. You save a bit there on materials but probably less than you'd think on labor.  The fiddly bits around the edges are what take forever to do, vast expanses in the middle go quickly.  Appliances, plumbing, and lighting for small and large kitchens cost about the same for both small and large kitchens.  Pipe and wire are relatively inexpensive.  Appliances and sinks are expensive.

Price out the appliances you want to use.  Arctic Mama got good deals if she managed a full suite of kitchen appliances for 2K. Some refrigerators cost that much. 5-8K for appliances is more typical in my area.  A range costs less than a wall oven and separate cooktop. Induction costs more than regular electric. If you have a gas line, gas is usually the least expensive option.   You'll be happier with a vent hood rather than a vented microwave.  If you don't want the microwave on a countertop, put in a shelf to hold it.  You can get a countertop microwave for $50-70, sometimes less.  Built-ins cost much more, plus they need to be replaced far more often than other appliances.    

Also price out the sink and fixtures you would want to use.  You will find a great variety in prices.  

Then make scale drawings of your current kitchen and the layout you would like.  There are plenty of online sites you could use, but graph paper and a ruler work to start.

If you are handy you can save money by doing a lot of the work yourself.  Unless a member of your family  is a skilled electrician, you will want to hire one to bring your wiring up to date. But, pulling cabinets and patching walls is something you can DYI.   If you can use standard-sized cabinets, consider IKEA cabinets.  They are just as sturdy as mid-range stock cabinets from big box stores.   They are less expensive since you need to put them together.  This isn't difficult, just tedious.  You can have any countertop you like installed. 

Another option for those who are handy is to buy a kitchen someone else is removing.  Habitat stores often have almost new cabinets but sometimes you can find people on Craig's list who are offering their existing cabinets free to anyone willing to haul them away.  

If you are going to contract out the work, remember that Lowes and Home Depot are not the only options.  Sometimes independent contractors are less expensive since they are not obligated to use materials from a single source.

[Bootsie]

How much are you planning on doing yourself?  We just got an estimate on a kitchen remodel and the costs associated with demolition and removal of debris came to almost $2000; that does include taking out tile flooring, but those part of the costs always surprise me.  What things are not up to code?  Electrical outlets? 

  One place to start is simply looking at how much the new appliances and sink you would like will cost.  Then measure the counter top area and estimate the price of the counter tops that you would like.  This would give you a starting point of costs to consider.

[Paige]

 

16 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

How much are you planning on doing yourself?  We just got an estimate on a kitchen remodel and the costs associated with demolition and removal of debris came to almost $2000; that does include taking out tile flooring, but those part of the costs always surprise me.  What things are not up to code?  Electrical outlets? 

  One place to start is simply looking at how much the new appliances and sink you would like will cost.  Then measure the counter top area and estimate the price of the counter tops that you would like.  This would give you a starting point of costs to consider.

We'd rather not diy much but could probably do some easier stuff. DH used to work in home renovation 2 lifetimes ago, so he has some skills but not the time or back. 

We have a gas cooktop with absolutely no venting or fans. I don't think that's safe. That's the only thing I know isn't up to code, but because it's in a bad place, replacing it means doing more work to make it all fit nicely. It's on the island and there's only 5 inches of counter space on the sides. It's not enough for a spoon rest to sit safely. There's space behind it, but it's useless when cooking. We could put a downdraft there, but I think I'd still hate it. We have a sink that would fit our space now for about $300; faucet is fine. But if I was replacing the counters, which is necessary to replace the oven/cooktop, I'd get a different, bigger one. I think we could do it easily for $300 or so. I'd like to remove the island entirely because there's no room to open doors easily, but that would mean replacing the flooring underneath. The island footprint stays, however, because the main level flooring is all the same, so that would be huge $$$.

We haven't priced a range because we don't know where exactly we could put it. Replacing our double ovens would be a pain because they are nonstandard. The whole house is needlessly and uselessly custom. Shower door can't be replaced because it's custom, windows, doors, sink, ovens. If I ever build a house, even if it's a custom build, I'll be sure to use standard sizes as much as possible. 

[Carrie12345]

I don’t know how much I trust estimates. I do understand materials mark ups and labor costs (my husband works with contractors), but I also think contractors count on overselling.

I just had someone come to give an estimate on a potential BIG project, with a kitchen expansion as a secondary thing. I told him up front that I am NOT a fancy person, I just wanted a wall knocked out (well, two, if you include the non-kitchen addition), and to add about 6’ of relatively cheap lower cabinetry and laminate countertops to match the existing cheapo kitchen.  We already have extra flooring.  He quoted $40k for a “better plan”.

In the past, I’ve asked for a quote to fill and seed my backyard, but the landscaper returned a quote for the entire property with bushes, mulch, and decorative boulders, then wouldn’t return messages about pricing for dirt and seed for the backyard!

I’m not saying everyone is out to get you, but a lot of people are counting on us falling in love with THEIR desired project.

[Selkie]

One thing we did to save money during our kitchen remodel was we kept the existing cabinet boxes and just got new doors. The boxes were in great shape, it was just the doors that were shabby and beyond repair. Saved us thousands of dollars and it looks great.

[medawyn]

The short answer is yes, kitchen remodels are expensive.  I can't even type the number we are spending.  

[Sherry in OH]

3 hours ago, Paige said:

 

We'd rather not diy much but could probably do some easier stuff. DH used to work in home renovation 2 lifetimes ago, so he has some skills but not the time or back. 

We have a gas cooktop with absolutely no venting or fans. I don't think that's safe. That's the only thing I know isn't up to code, but because it's in a bad place, replacing it means doing more work to make it all fit nicely. It's on the island and there's only 5 inches of counter space on the sides. It's not enough for a spoon rest to sit safely. There's space behind it, but it's useless when cooking. We could put a downdraft there, but I think I'd still hate it. We have a sink that would fit our space now for about $300; faucet is fine. But if I was replacing the counters, which is necessary to replace the oven/cooktop, I'd get a different, bigger one. I think we could do it easily for $300 or so. I'd like to remove the island entirely because there's no room to open doors easily, but that would mean replacing the flooring underneath. The island footprint stays, however, because the main level flooring is all the same, so that would be huge $$$.

We haven't priced a range because we don't know where exactly we could put it. Replacing our double ovens would be a pain because they are nonstandard. The whole house is needlessly and uselessly custom. Shower door can't be replaced because it's custom, windows, doors, sink, ovens. If I ever build a house, even if it's a custom build, I'll be sure to use standard sizes as much as possible. 

 

Whether or not the bolded is true depends on the flooring.  Is it tile, wood, laminate?  

While you can place a range almost anywhere in the kitchen, if it is against an outside wall, you can vent the hood directly through the wall. That is the least expensive option for a vented hood.  Elsewhere in the room will require ductwork.  Bear in mind that ductwork is less expensive than plumbing, so if putting the stove on an outside wall would require moving the sink, don't do it. 

I get the irritation with custom.  I have a pleated shower door that is overdue for replacement.  

[Paige]

24 minutes ago, Sherry in OH said:

 

Whether or not the bolded is true depends on the flooring.  Is it tile, wood, laminate?  

While you can place a range almost anywhere in the kitchen, if it is against an outside wall, you can vent the hood directly through the wall. That is the least expensive option for a vented hood.  Elsewhere in the room will require ductwork.  Bear in mind that ductwork is less expensive than plumbing, so if putting the stove on an outside wall would require moving the sink, don't do it. 

I get the irritation with custom.  I have a pleated shower door that is overdue for replacement.  

The floor is hardwood. I think it would be hard to match. 

[Storygirl]

We just finished a kitchen remodel and hired all of it out, because we are not handy people. My kitchen is large, and we put upgraded cabinetry and quartz counters, because that is what was needed for our market. We had some rewiring and plumbing, but it was not a lot, because we kept our same footprint, so that we wouldn't have to do extensive rewiring or change the floor. They did rip the walls to the studs, though, and had to re-drywall, so a lot of work happened. We did replace the fridge, but kept the other appliances, which we had already replaced two years ago. Your situation with a smaller kitchen is different, but I will give you some tips that I didn't know before we started.

We found a contractor on Angie's List who did great work for much less expense than the quote that we got from a different highly advertized competitor. So shop around for your bids.

This guy used to install kitchens for Lowe's, but the Lowe's here no longer installs kitchens. I'm not sure if that is true nationwide or not. Anyway, he launched his own business and gets much/most of his work from clients who buy their cabinets at Lowe's, and he installs them as a private contractor. The kitchen designers at Lowe's refer people to him, and he refers people to Lowe's for materials.

My advice is to make an appointment to talk to a kitchen designer at your local Lowe's. You can just walk in, but if you have an appointment, you will know they will be free to spend some time with you. Ask the kitchen designer who they recommend for installation. Ask the designer the best time of year to buy cabinets at the best sale price. We bought ours in January and were told that January was usually the best sale month of the year for that brand (KraftMaid).

We saved 30% off of the cabinets PLUS got free upgrades on the color that we wanted (which was not the base price but which we got for the base price.) Plus we applied for a Lowe's card, which gave us, I think, another 5% off of all of that. Plus we got a rebate back in the form of a Lowe's gift card, which we then applied to our counters and which saved us 50% of the countertop price. 

You don't pay anything for a consult with a Lowe's kitchen designer, and they should be able to show you the options of different cabinets that they carry, in many price ranges. Take rough measurements of your space; eventually someone will have to take exact measurements, but with rough specs, the kitchen designer should be able to talk you through options and what they might cost and when the best time to buy is.

You can also find other kitchen contractors who will come and look at your kitchen and give you an estimate for free, and then you can compare. The cabinetry was our biggest expense, so if you can find a way to get those costs down, it will make a significant difference.

[Storygirl]

I was told by a salesperson that the best deals on appliances happen over Thanksgiving weekend.

Also, we ordered our sink from Amazon and saved a bunch over what it would have cost to buy what we wanted at Lowe's. And we had more options online. I found our faucet and garbage disposal on sale at Costco.  So you will save if you shop around and compare prices and can jump on sales when you find them.

[Sneezyone]

I also second Amazon for fixtures. We did two bathroom renovations in 2018 and saved a ton buying our fixtures on Amazon. Our contractor thought we spent a heckuva lot more than we did. Amazon was routinely 50-75% less than retail locations.

[Sneezyone]

So, I am SUUUUPER frugal and love to DIY but had both our master BR and main hall upstairs baths redone at the end of 2018 for $18K. Combined, it was probably a postage stamp sized kitchen but we didn't have to go down to the studs everywhere. I also went over budget by 3K. I kept the existing layout in one bathroom and replaced the fixtures and finishes in both. We removed soffits to create more height/space, re-wired to add a TV above a new soaking tub (removed the jetted, garden tub and pony wall). We also replaced the toilets and vanities b/c they were too short and installed new tub/tile/shower surrounds. We didn't do the demo either one. Shop around and be ruthless with your pricing and expectations. In this market, if you buy your own supplies, you should be able to affordably contract for the labor. Just be sure to get and check references! Both of our vanities were, aside from the labor, our biggest expense. Literally, a third of our cost was the two vanities but they're both 7' long and came with marble tops and backsplashes.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Paige]

39 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

So, I am SUUUUPER frugal and love to DIY but had both our master BR and main hall upstairs baths redone at the end of 2018 for $18K. Combined, it was probably a postage stamp sized kitchen but we didn't have to go down to the studs everywhere. I also went over budget by 3K. I kept the existing layout in one bathroom and replaced the fixtures and finishes in both. We removed soffits to create more height/space, re-wired to add a TV above a new soaking tub (removed the jetted, garden tub and pony wall). We also replaced the toilets and vanities b/c they were too short and installed new tub/tile/shower surrounds. We didn't do the demo either one. Shop around and be ruthless with your pricing and expectations. In this market, if you buy your own supplies, you should be able to affordably contract for the labor. Just be sure to get and check references! Both of our vanities were, aside from the labor, our biggest expense. Literally, a third of our cost was the two vanities but they're both 7' long and came with marble tops and backsplashes.

You did 2 baths and a kitchen for $18,000? That's really good. We're in a higher COL area, but I'm not fancy. I need it to be functional and meet the standard of our neighborhood. I'm not sure what the standard is but probably not luxury! 

What do you do while it's gutted- eat out for a week? 

[Sneezyone]

18 minutes ago, Paige said:

You did 2 baths and a kitchen for $18,000? That's really good. We're in a higher COL area, but I'm not fancy. I need it to be functional and meet the standard of our neighborhood. I'm not sure what the standard is but probably not luxury! 

What do you do while it's gutted- eat out for a week? 

 

Yep, I did. It helps to know what things actually cost and what you actually need for the project. We bought all of the materials so there was no room to mark up materials. We only needed to negotiate labor costs. Our neighborhood isn't stupid expensive (no million dollar homes nearby) but 40-70% of that, yes. Fortunately, the kitchen (while not to my taste) was already upgraded. We still have one 1/2 bath to go but I don't feel especially motivated. It's just a paint, vanity and toilet project.

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, Paige said:

The floor is hardwood. I think it would be hard to match. 

What if you get creative. I’ve seen tile insert ‘rugs’ on some home shows. 
 

Have you looked into Ikea kitchens? They’re more budget friendly. 

[lmrich]

Open shelving would reduce your costs since you would not have to replace your upper cabinets. You will need to smooth the walls out when you take down the upper cabinets, but it was a fraction of the cost of custom cabinets. Can you paint your existing cabinets? 

 

[BlsdMama]

If you're looking for a budget - take down some measurements, head into a big box store, and tell them you want to remodel your kitchen.  They should be able to pull you a quote for cabinets and countertops.  We gutted our kitchen completely including the soffits and flooring, but we kept the existing cabinets and did the work ourselves so I can't tell you what the costs would be.  Ours were pretty minimal.

[Sherry in OH]

14 hours ago, Paige said:

The floor is hardwood. I think it would be hard to match. 

 

3/4 inch hardwood can be feathered in.  The main difficulty would be matching a non-standard finish. 

Engineered wood can also be feathered in but is more difficult to source as you must obtain pieces from the same manufacturer, style, and color.  

As a previous poster suggested, get creative.  If a tile 'rug' doesn't appeal to you can you take wood from a closet floor or other less visible area of the house to patch the kitchen floor?  

[Granny_Weatherwax]

15 hours ago, Paige said:

<snip>

What do you do while it's gutted- eat out for a week? 

We are using our grill to cook meat and a camping stove to cook pasta, vegetables, etc. Mostly, though, we are eating meals that don't require a lot of cooking -salads, sandwiches, cold cereal instead of eggs. If the guys want a hot meal, they buy it while they are at work (both work out of town). I use my camp set up for washing dishes and we haul the hot water from the tub to the dining area so I can do clean up. 

Have frank conversations with your contractor. We are doing a lot of the work ourselves and contracting out electrical and plumbing as it was less expensive than having one general contractor. We have had to stop construction twice - once for the electrical which was not up to code and once for plumbing when lead pipes were discovered as well as pipes in the wall for a washing machine. These pipes were incorrectly capped. It took a couple of days for the plumber to come out for an inspection and quote. Of course, nothing could progress until those issues were taken care of.  I guess what I am trying to say is to prepare for some glitches, esp if your house is older.

Edited July 14, 2020 by The Accidental Coach

[SanDiegoMom]

We just renovated our kitchen last year.  My husband did the entire floor -- demo'ed the existing floor and laid the tile for the kitchen and the bathroom and laundry room.  It took a couple of years off his life. The soffit extended out in a couple of places and he took that out (though he couldn't do the one over the sink since -surprise - it enclosed a huge steel beam that runs the entire length of the house!). He also did the backsplash, the recessed lighting and the painting.  So we had a contractor do just the cabinets, countertop, sink and faucets.  We ended up with extra cabinets since we bought cabinets based on taking out the soffit and then couldn't, so we had to get smaller cabinets.  We put two of the larger ones standing as a bar in two different places and covered them with granite. Then after that we moved and are renting the house out, lol.  

It cost us around 17k to the contractor.  Another probably 6k for the rest of the work.  I think we could have done better as we didn't love our contractor -- he was good and knew what he was doing, but he was very high pressure and we probably could have gotten the better colors or better granite choices with someone else.  We went with the bottom price tier for everything. 

 

[Paige]

We had a guy come out and give us estimates for the kitchen, master bath, and replacing a tacky wet bar. It's a lot. And even though it's a lot for us the price is honestly reasonable. I think we're going to see what we can cut back on, do ourselves, or do something in a different way to bring the price down. We have to bring the kitchen up to code. We have to fix a broken shower. 😕 The tacky bar could stay but it's so, so, so tacky. I thought about removing it but then we'd have an awkward useless space.

Do you think it would be terrible for resale if a kitchen didn't have an island? The contractor says we should really keep it, but that the flooring is probably ok under it if I want to remove it. The kitchen is tiny and would have less counter and cabinet space without it, but I may be able to get a nice non built in island and put it against the wall.  I also want to make everything accessible and there's no possible way to make 42 inches between the island and the counters. I don't know why the house is like this- the original owners obviously had someone who used a wheelchair or had limited mobility. They even had one of those stairway seated lifts.  

[Sherry in OH]

2 minutes ago, Paige said:

We had a guy come out and give us estimates for the kitchen, master bath, and replacing a tacky wet bar. It's a lot. And even though it's a lot for us the price is honestly reasonable. I think we're going to see what we can cut back on, do ourselves, or do something in a different way to bring the price down. We have to bring the kitchen up to code. We have to fix a broken shower. 😕 The tacky bar could stay but it's so, so, so tacky. I thought about removing it but then we'd have an awkward useless space.

Do you think it would be terrible for resale if a kitchen didn't have an island? The contractor says we should really keep it, but that the flooring is probably ok under it if I want to remove it. The kitchen is tiny and would have less counter and cabinet space without it, but I may be able to get a nice non built in island and put it against the wall.  I also want to make everything accessible and there's no possible way to make 42 inches between the island and the counters. I don't know why the house is like this- the original owners obviously had someone who used a wheelchair or had limited mobility. They even had one of those stairway seated lifts.  

 

Why would it be?  Furniture islands are readily available as are DIY plans to build them.  IMO kitchens without fixed islands offer more flexibility - you can add a furniture island or kitchen cart if you want more countertop space, a kitchen or bistro table, or keep the floorspace open. Should your needs change, it is much less expensive to add or remove furniture than to remove fixed cabinetry.

[Paige]

The bathroom estimate was the killer! 

We have clearance that just barely meets code on the island. He offered to move it back about 2-4 inches. It could work but visualization isn’t my strong point. It would be much more useful with the cooktop removed. I think I wouldn’t hate it as much. Also, we’re small people so what’s ok for me might be uncomfortably tight for others and we intend to sell. 
 

As for cabinet space, without the island we’d only have 3.5 upper cabinets and 3.5 lower ones. I could try to kick DH’s junk out of one of them but he’ll resist. Our kitchen space is really weird. It’s sort of open into the family room,  but divided by a stairwell making the space not actually open for use. Then we have only 1 full wall and 2 that are about .25 of a normal sized wall. There’s a breakfast nook but it’s not useful for storage or wall space because the windows are so big.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I'm feeling for you. Working with custom spaces is a headache. If you can post a pic of your kitchen layout, I know there are people here who will have some creative ideas for you (I've seen them work wonders in the past.).

From the time you made the OP, my kitchen still isn't finished. We now have insulation and drywall, DH refinished the floors, the cabinets are installed (no doors though), the plumber is working today, the electrician will be here tomorrow. Then it's another work stoppage while we await the countertops (snafu with the countertop manufacturer) which won't arrive until Aug 18. Our price has gone up a bit, about another $500. Our goal (can't call it a deadline) for August 1 came and went and we are now shooting for Aug 25.

My advice - be prepared for any and everything. You never know what can happen from day to day.
 

[Paige]

28 minutes ago, The Accidental Coach said:

If you can post a pic of your kitchen layout, I know there are people here who will have some creative ideas for you (I've seen them work wonders in the past.).

 

Yeah....I’d have to do the dishes first. 😁

What I like about this guy is that he doesn’t begin construction until he’s ready to finish, and he and his partner do it all personally. He wants everything present before he demos the old kitchen and says most people are only without their kitchen for a week or 2. 

He’s pushing quartz but I think I want soapstone. Or maybe something else but I have ethical qualms with quartz. It’s hard- I like him but I’m going to have to be more assertive.

[KungFuPanda]

I say do what works for you. I think I want to expand the working part of my kitchen into the breakfast nook. We eat in the DR or LR so that space could be more useful for workspace and storage than a table and chairs. 
 

@paige, I say do what you WANT with the space. If you go to sell and really feel you need an island it’s easy enough to stick a non-built-in one later. Personally I like versatility, so I’m seriously considering building a few work areas on castors so I can push them against the wall or pull them to the center. 

[Bootsie]

We had Soapstone in our last kitchen and I LOVED it.  We are looking at a remodel in the house we recently bought and the one thing my husband is asking for in the kitchen is that we put Soapstone in again (It is not as common where we live as some other parts of the country).  

I would not bee too concerned about a built-in island unless you need one for stove top or sink.  If you want the workspace, a separate, moveable island should work.  Could you put banquette seating and table in your nook?  We did that to save some space and then had storage under the seating.

[Paige]

On 8/5/2020 at 5:36 PM, Bootsie said:

Could you put banquette seating and table in your nook?  We did that to save some space and then had storage under the seating.

I’d like to do that but the windows come down to within 12in of the floor. I don’t think reworking the windows is in our budget and I’m not sure about building against the glass. I’ll ask the guy what he thinks.