Can someone stop being the golden child of a narcissist?

[Slache]

And if so how? How would that impact the scapegoat?

[Liz CA]

Are you talking about the roles of "Hero," "Scapegoat, "Lost Child" and "Mascot?"

[Slache]

9 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

But why would they want to? They have everything their own way. 

Because it means being the favorite of an incredibly toxic person, which involves an array of negative consequences. I don't know if all goldens feel that way, but it absolutely sucks in this case.

6 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

Are you talking about the roles of "Hero," "Scapegoat, "Lost Child" and "Mascot?"

Yep!

[Slache]

18 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

But why would they want to? They have everything their own way. 

And he doesn't get anything his way. He's expected to line up with the parent's idea of perfection.

[Liz CA]

5 minutes ago, Slache said:

Because it means being the favorite of an incredibly toxic person, which involves an array of negative consequences. I don't know if all goldens feel that way, but it absolutely sucks in this case.

Yep!

 

I think a lot of these things come back to boundary issues. Once you know the relationship is toxic (even though it may make you feel valued in an unhealthy way if that makes sense) and you can define the boundaries you want to enforce in the relationship, you may be able to have contact with the person without feeling manipulated and used. The scapegoat will likely always be seen as such by the narcissist but he or she can also set firm boundaries and refuse to play the role any longer. We have to remember that we have to accept the "part" and continue to act it in order for it to play out this way. Sorry that you have reason to ask this question. Hugs.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Liz CA

[Scarlett]

My BIL was the golden child.  He did not like it at all.  He is 65 now and has had no contact with his mother for  over 10 years.  

[Rosie_0801]

I've seen it in a two child family. The kids take turns in being the golden and the scapegoat.

[Slache]

4 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

I think a lot of these things come back to boundary issues. Once you know the relationship is toxic (even though it may make you feel valued in an unhealthy way if that makes sense) and you can define the boundaries you want to enforce in the relationship, you may be able to have contact with the person without feeling manipulated and used. Sorry that you have reason to ask this question. Hugs.

Definitely! We're just dealing with a lifetime of manipulation and while major progress is being made I think not being the favorite would go a long way. And things are much better, I'm just a princess and want to be done.

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My BIL was the golden child.  He did not like it at all.  He is 65 now and has had no contact with his mother for  over 10 years.  

I think that unless the GC is just like the NPD they don't like it.

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I've seen it in a two child family. The kids take turns in being the golden and the scapegoat.

I've heard of this but this has not happened.

[Tanaqui]

Sure, happens all the time... when the GC starts to realize their parents are toxic, and starts to assert themselves and head for more independence.

Of course, the key is that the GC has to have enough awareness to start pushing against the parents.

[Slache]

21 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Sure, happens all the time... when the GC starts to realize their parents are toxic, and starts to assert themselves and head for more independence.

Of course, the key is that the GC has to have enough awareness to start pushing against the parents.

WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR TEN YEARS!

[Tanaqui]

41 minutes ago, Slache said:

WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR TEN YEARS!

 

Your case may be hopeless then. Sorry.

[Carrie12345]

Yes, but it certainly wasn’t pretty. 

In our family’s scenario, it did flip the scapegoat into the golden child. And then back and forth for as long as the GC remained in contact, however limited it was at times. The only END to GC was final and complete no-contact.

The other sibling remains in toxic and crippling codependency.

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

Yes, but it certainly wasn’t pretty. 

In our family’s scenario, it did flip the scapegoat into the golden child. And then back and forth for as long as the GC remained in contact, however limited it was at times. The only END to GC was final and complete no-contact.

The other sibling remains in toxic and crippling codependency.

Same here. Husband was the GC until he ended contact. Remember, to remain the GC, you have to be willing to remain in control of others. When you stop doing every single thing demanded of you, and they accept that they cannot control you, they move on.

[Scarlett]

48 minutes ago, Fifiruth said:

For the GC to realize that there is such a thing as being a narc’s favorite is a really healthy revelation, and the beginning of the hard road to freedom. I think that it’s hard to realize that all of the smiles, gifts, pet names, and attention (“support”) were not coming from a place of love; but, rather, were tools of manipulation and emotional abuse. 

One cannot change rolls because they are arbitrarily assigned by the narc. One can only refuse to play along.

QFT

[hippiemamato3]

At age 14, my son did. After a particular egregious offense from his NPD father, we went to court and took away his custodial rights. After that, DS blocked him entirely on his phone, social media, etc. and didn't respond to him for 2  1/2 years. Since then, he acquiesced to one 1 hour lunch visit and then decided he still doesn't want contact. I don't know how this impacted his father's other children, but they are adults at this point. 

ETA: Oh and DS never had to 'realize' he was his father's golden child - he literally referred to him that way. Disgusting. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by hippiemamato3

[Slache]

5 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

ETA: Oh and DS never had to 'realize' he was his father's golden child - he literally referred to him that way. Disgusting. 

Same here. I know now the GC often repeats the pattern, but thank God we don't have that problem. I would not know what to do. I'm so sorry you were put in that situation.

[gardenmom5]

are you referring to the golden child refusing to play the game anymore and walking away?  or the narcissist getting angry at TGC and ceasing to lavish their praise upon them?

Yes to both.  how it affects the scapegoat would depend on a number of factors.   

Dr. Ramani, and Dr. Les Carter on youtube both have good information.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

11 hours ago, Liz CA said:

 

I think a lot of these things come back to boundary issues. Once you know the relationship is toxic (even though it may make you feel valued in an unhealthy way if that makes sense) and you can define the boundaries you want to enforce in the relationship, you may be able to have contact with the person without feeling manipulated and used. The scapegoat will likely always be seen as such by the narcissist but he or she can also set firm boundaries and refuse to play the role any longer. We have to remember that we have to accept the "part" and continue to act it in order for it to play out this way. Sorry that you have reason to ask this question. Hugs.

It's all about boundaries.  narc's don't recognize boundaries - so it's up to everyone else to impose them.

2 hours ago, Fifiruth said:

For the GC to realize that there is such a thing as being a narc’s favorite is a really healthy revelation, and the beginning of the hard road to freedom. I think that it’s hard to realize that all of the smiles, gifts, pet names, and attention (“support”) were not coming from a place of love; but, rather, were tools of manipulation and emotional abuse. 

One cannot change rolls because they are arbitrarily assigned by the narc. One can only refuse to play along.

THIS.

[mathnerd]

I have seen some nParents shift their GC from one child to another depending on circumstances. The GC that I am familiar with was coached from childhood to be on "Team nParent" and was fiercely and unquestioningly loyal and hostile to the scapegoat on behalf of the nParent. That dynamic spilled into adulthood for them and the GC has many messed up relationships and poor health due to stress and is still at the bidding of the nParent. There are signs that the GC is setting boundaries, but the nParent is amping up the manipulation to crazy levels with both the GC and Scapegoat to bring things back to the equilibrium that they think that they deserve.

That being said, nParents use the GC/SG dynamic to triangulate and also to get nSupply. If the GC and the SG do not provide that, they will try to manipulate desperately and then move on to other sources. The GC that I know of has fallen out of favor a few times and gotten punished for their alleged transgressions and then was accepted back after being cold shouldered for a while. One thing that the GC can do to quit their designated position in that family is to subtly do things that turns off their Golden Sheen for the nParent: one suggestion is to praise or sympathize with the Scapegoat, not overtly, but by dropping in comments during conversation. For e.g., "I did not know that SGSibling was such a great parent or such a good cook or so good at fixing cars or so good with children" etc. That would certainly put a stop to the GC being the GC in the family that I know of!

[Selkie]

Dh's brother was the GC and never would have willingly given up that status. Their mom died about 25 years ago and and since then, GC has been filled with bitterness and rage that the rest of the world doesn't think he is special and wonderful like mommy did. He does have a doormat wife who is at his beck and call, so that helps his bruised ego somewhat.🙄 It is fascinating and sad to see how twisted his personality became as a result of being the "chosen one".

[Slache]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

are you referring to the golden child refusing to play the game anymore and walking away?  or the narcissist getting angry at TGC and ceasing to lavish their praise upon them?

Yes to both.  how it affects the scapegoat would depend on a number of factors.   

Dr. Ramani, and Dr. Les Carter on youtube both have good information.

We want the bolded. I have watched all of both of their videos (as well as the German narcissist and The Little Shaman) over the past 3 years.

3 hours ago, Margaret in CO said:

Huh. The GC in dh's family never walked away. The narc is now dead, but the GC still holds it over everyone. I refuse to engage. Fortunately, they no longer live next door!

Gross. Not what happened here.

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

Dh's brother was the GC and never would have willingly given up that status. Their mom died about 25 years ago and and since then, GC has been filled with bitterness and rage that the rest of the world doesn't think he is special and wonderful like mommy did. He does have a doormat wife who is at his beck and call, so that helps his bruised ego somewhat.🙄 It is fascinating and sad to see how twisted his personality became as a result of being the "chosen one".

Yes, I've read about this, but fortunately not an issue.

[hippiemamato3]

16 hours ago, Margaret in CO said:

But why would they want to? They have everything their own way. 

My DS hated it. He hated seeing his half and step brothers abused. He was there only a couple days a month, and it impacted him (negatively) profoundly. 

[prairiewindmomma]

MIL is very fluid in whom she assigns roles to. You never know on a given day who the SG and GC are. We were the first of the siblings to opt out of playing.  She destroyed all of the other relationships we had within the family by spinning tales and assigning blame.  We were cut off from everyone for a time because she demanded it (and they complied to keep the peace). Other siblings began to opt out of the crazy also, and  she would send flying monkeys to try to bring them back into the fold. Some of those who "left" have tried to build relationships with us, some haven't. 

FWIW, the narcissist will always need someone to project their negative aspects/thoughts/feelings onto....so SG may remain just the SG or they may be both love bombed one day and ranted against the next.  

IMO, just get out. Seriously. The collateral damage will be there either way, because destroyers destroy, but removing the drama gave us so much emotional energy and peace back.  We could see the hurricane at the distance---we were no longer getting pelted with broken concrete and wood with nails while we were living inside the hurricane.

[Slache]

13 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

IMO, just get out. Seriously. The collateral damage will be there either way, because destroyers destroy, but removing the drama gave us so much emotional energy and peace back.  We could see the hurricane at the distance---we were no longer getting pelted with broken concrete and wood with nails while we were living inside the hurricane.

We are as out as we can be without losing contact with 2 beloved family members. He's coming out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and seeing more clearly. He's asked me all sorts of things because I've been the one researching and I've always had an answer, but he asked me this and I had no idea. We both feel forfeiting the roll would mean less drama. We see her less than once a year, she doesn't speak to the kids on the phone, she's currently giving me the silent treatment (it took me a decade to realize this was a punishment), he only calls the house when she's working and rarely answers the phone when she calls. He's even stopped wearing his wedding ring which she had changed to match hers instead of mine behind our backs. I'm very glad about the direction we're heading.

[Lawyer&Mom]

13 minutes ago, Slache said:

He's even stopped wearing his wedding ring which she had changed to match hers instead of mine behind our backs. I'm very glad about the direction we're heading.

I’m sorry, she did what!?!!!

Thats amazingly awful. 

[Shoeless]

Being the golden child isn't positive. It is often extremely difficult, if not impossible, to have a normal relationship with the non-scapegoat relatives.  There are too many hard feelings that can last over generations.  Also, many golden children eventually realize their siblings or cousins are not being treated fairly, and it can lead to feeling guilty and conflicted.  

[Slache]

1 minute ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I’m sorry, she did what!?!!!

Thats amazingly awful. 

Jocasta Complex, when the mother uses the son instead of the husband to fulfill her emotional needs. She wore a white lacey dress to our wedding and lit my candle. I've heard about (not experienced) prolonged lip kissing, particularly while maintaining eye contact with DIL to establish dominance, having the grandkids call her mom, intimate cuddling. It can be really gross, but far more common than you'd imagine.

[Shoeless]

5 minutes ago, Slache said:

Jocasta Complex, when the mother uses the son instead of the husband to fulfill her emotional needs. She wore a white lacey dress to our wedding and lit my candle. I've heard about (not experienced) prolonged lip kissing, particularly while maintaining eye contact with DIL to establish dominance, having the grandkids call her mom, intimate cuddling. It can be really gross, but far more common than you'd imagine.

😲😵