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JadeOrchidSong

From feeling nervous to feeling less fearful about CV19

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Mid March. March 16 to be exact. That was the first time I went shopping after both ds's college and high school stopped in-person instruction and went online. 

I had one dust filtering N95 mask dh bought (a box of 10. He and ds used 6 and 4 were left) a few years ago for a big house project. At that time I was nervous people would judge me for even having any kind of N95 mask. So I put a bandana on top of it. At Target store where I went to get ds's prescription medicine, there were few people with masks. I felt self-conscious and short of breath due to stress. I also went to ALDI and got lots of dry food and fresh food. When I got home, I wiped down everything with disinfectant wipes and quarantined some food in the porch. Then I wiped down the steering wheel, the car door, the house door knob, and anything I touched. Then I went to the shower. After that first time I did the same routine: shop, disinfect, shower. 

As time goes by, I become less nervous. A friend of ours has four children, she shops every 10 days and never disinfects her grocery or anything she brings into her house. I also begin to relax about my shop disinfect shower routine and feel much less exhausted from all the tensing up and the disinfecting. 

A neighbor of mine is a retired nurse. She and I always walk our dogs together or simply chitchat in her house over a cup of tea and snack for the dogs and for us. In Mid March we stopped seeing each other for a few days. The first few times when I dropped by her house to say hi, I picked up a random small rock in her yard and used it to press the doorbell button and then put it back where it was to reduce contaminating her door. 

Now I continue to wear a good mask when I go indoor shopping, wash my hands a few times a day, and keep a good distance with people. Not touching my face without first washing my hands has become an ingrained habit. But I have stopped disinfecting. 

we took a family trip to North Shore of Lake Superior at an ari B and B. We hiked trails and enjoyed some patio seating restaurant food once. We did some hammock hanging right by the lake, tranquil. A nice time away from the lock down and the riots. 

Ds is in school three hours a day with a mask. He has five classmates and a teacher. This is a good practice for the full going back to school in late August, 

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I am the same way.   I wasn't as strict in the beginning as you but I was cautious.

I wear a mask, wash my hands, don't get close to others.  But while case numbers are going up, the death rate is falling.

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We are still being cautious, masking, hand sanitizing and washing, distancing, cleaning a lot more. We are not going to any crowded places - really not going anyplace at all (with rare exception), other than the occasional walk in the wood and of course grocery shopping. But I stopped having groceries delivered - the charges and tips, along with the substitution issues, were  making that too stressful in too many ways.   We also stopped disinfecting the groceries, it was just too much for... who knew how much benefit, if any?  

Today my husband and I had our first meal in a restaurant since February. We were in an indoor area, but there were big windows and doors out to the patio, all open, so it was airy and bright without having the sun beating down on us. It was so nice even though I generally dislike eating out and spending $13+ for a burger when I can make one at home. Turning into my  mother, one day at a time!  😄

I should add that we have no particular health issues to cause us concern. I am 64, so I suppose considered high-risk, but I am very healthy (if not terribly fit) and don't seem to catch colds and such easily. Oh, I am diligent with Vitamin D (though I don't take a lot, per kidney doctor's orders) and other healthful foods. 

 

Edited by marbel
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I have not changed as much as you have, though I have made some changes as I have learned more. I wasn’t as strict as you describe yourself in the beginning. And I am not as lax now (I haven’t done any restaurant dining even on patio). I feel neither especially nervous nor at all complacent about SARS2. 

I have better masks now, and also got stuff for diy face shield, which is better than I had at beginning.   I still keep physical distancing, and that plus better masks do help me feel more protected. 

I haven’t washed car handles or door knobs at all. And I clean my own hands, so I don’t think steering wheel etc would be a problem.

I am using sitting time more for objects rather than wipe down. 

 

I read this and used some of its ideas: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/how-fauci-5-other-health-specialists-deal-with-covid-19-risks-in-their-everyday-lives/2020/07/02/d4665ed6-b6fb-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html

Edited by Pen
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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

I have not changed as much as you have, though I have made some changes as I have learned more. I wasn’t as strict as you describe yourself in the beginning. And I am not as lax now. I feel neither especially nervous nor at all complacent about SARS2. 

I have better masks now, and also got stuff for diy face shield, which is better than I had at beginning.   I still keep physical distancing, and that plus better masks do help me feel more protected. 

I haven’t washed car handles or door knobs at all. And I clean my own hands, so I don’t think steering wheel etc would be a problem.

I am using sitting time more for objects rather than wipe down. 

 

I read this and used some of its ideas: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/how-fauci-5-other-health-specialists-deal-with-covid-19-risks-in-their-everyday-lives/2020/07/02/d4665ed6-b6fb-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html

That's an excellent article - I appreciated it too.   I am living a similar life style.  I go out walking and see people unmasked outdoors at a distance daily. I love curbside pick ups/grocery delivery and may never give that up.  I'm getting together with my mom I've only seen once since March for a  patio picnic in a couple days.  I'm not really disinfecting groceries or worrying about mail anymore.  The science seems to back that up.   

 

I live in the OPs state I think and our numbers are looking better as of late.  Crossing fingers people are doing an ok job here, time will tell.   

 

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25 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

I am the same way.   I wasn't as strict in the beginning as you but I was cautious.

I wear a mask, wash my hands, don't get close to others.  But while case numbers are going up, the death rate is falling.

Death rate lags, remember. Ours here is going back up now. 

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I would say that I have adapted operating procedures (lol) as we have learned more about the virus. Like groceries, mail, etc...I don’t exhaust myself over them anymore (as you described, OP).

I am also exhausted because my office hours are not predictable right now. We are rotating through so people aren’t there at the same time, but as business is erratic these days, different team members are needed for different things at different times. And I function best with a predictable schedule, this is far from it.

As far as what makes me nervous these days, I admit to having a low level of anxiety over what we don’t know - what school will look like - that sort of thing. Give me some concrete info and I can work with it, even if it’s challenging. Not knowing the school's plan yet is keeping us all on edge. 

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9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Death rate lags, remember. Ours here is going back up now. 

See, this seems so horrible to say, but this is the info we need to see - a very clear indication that the increase in cases is of great concern - by a corresponding increase in death rate. 

That sounds horrible but I think that’s the info that makes its mark on peoples’ behavior. That, and knowing someone with a serious case personally. Otherwise people feel bulletproof. 

Or maybe we will are the opposite - lots of new cases but much lower mortality. Either way, we are still in watch and pray territory, or should be, but so many people are resuming the old carefree ways. 

I should probably go read a novel. 

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I had started to relax but no more. Our positivity rate is starting to trend upward and we’ve had an increase in hospitalizations, so I’m back to being very cautious. And schools here start back in three weeks. I’m worried it’s about to get bad here again. 

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20 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Death rate lags, remember. Ours here is going back up now. 

Thanks for sharing that. Our state is mimicking your state (I think...? If I'm remembering your state correctly) and I have not paid attention to the death rate lately. 

Back to the OP....

For me, we just barely relaxed a few things, and our state (and county) numbers started going way up, and positive cases are getting closer & closer to home for us, and so we're still doing most of the same things we were doing from the get-go. The few things we'd relaxed, we're (or people in our social group are) tightening back up. 

So, still limiting outings to essential needs only, and trying to space those 10 days apart if possible (at least 7 days if at all possible). Still wearing a mask out in public. Still have hand sanitizer in the car, and everyone uses it before getting out (to degermify ourselves for the world) and after getting back into the car (to degermify the world off of us before going home). We aren't disinfecting stuff, but weren't in the beginning, either. 

We'd just started letting the boys have their friends over (one select group, for one particular activity, and with literally measured out 6 ft distances b/w all seats), with individual served snacks only, and relatively strict social distancing measures in place, and only once every 2 weeks (to allow quarantine if needed, etc.). One of the other 2 families is more nervous again now about things, so that's off for now. 

Our kids other activities haven't resumed in person yet, and we're still opting to stream church vs. attend in person. 

I'm tutoring one little girl in person, and while it's just her, her grandma, and her great-grandma (and they all mostly do a good job of social distancing), the great-grandma and I have discussed and both of us feel better if I start wearing my mask (and the little girl will wear hers) in the parts of tutoring when we're up close. Mostly I sit in a chair 6 ft from her desk, but part of the time we're on the floor doing a sticker atlas. So, masks it is. I'd not forgive myself if I were ever traced to be point of contact for a germ entering that house and making grandma or great-grandma very ill. 

I've just started visiting my grandma, but we maintain strict social distancing while there. The extended family agrees it's an acceptable risk in this case (my grandpa passed away in early March, and grandma is alone, and needs the interaction). We're very careful. 

I feel like....while I'm comfortable with my odds if I were to get sick, and those in my household, I'm starting to come into contact with more people on a more regular basis who maybe aren't comfortable with their odds, or I'm not comfortable being the reason they would get sick. So, minimize my chances of getting sick, and minimize my chances of passing it to them. Mask, mask, mask. (and of course hand washing, etc.). 

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I don't FEEL nervous anymore, not like I did in March. I think overtime I figured out a routine for shopping, brining things into the house, and all that became normal.

And while I still don't FEEL nervous, my DH and coworkers are working from home again after having gone back to the office, and we're pulling our kids out of the activities that had started up again (here in GA).

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5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

See, this seems so horrible to say, but this is the info we need to see - a very clear indication that the increase in cases is of great concern - by a corresponding increase in death rate. 

That sounds horrible but I think that’s the info that makes its mark on peoples’ behavior. That, and knowing someone with a serious case personally. Otherwise people feel bulletproof. 

Deaths are already the highest they've ever been in Texas and Arizona, are way up from a month ago in Florida, and are trending up in many other states with spiking case rates. 

But I'm afraid that even when people see the death toll climbing, too many will still believe the conspiracy theories that deaths are being vastly over reported, that most of those people died "with CV, but not of CV," that they were just old/sick/disabled people who would have died anyway so it's a reasonable trade-off to keep the stock market up, etc. ☹️

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Hugs Jade... I know for many people it has been very, very stressful.  I was never what people would consider hyper vigilant, just careful.  I'm also in a state that has kept restrictions longer.  I read this article the other day and I found a lot of interesting information....

How Fauci and 5 Other Health Specialists Deal with Their Everyday lives

One surprise - so many of them have regular housekeepers still coming to their house.  I mean I realize that they would have houskeeping services but it surprised me that they are comfortable with them still coming to their house.  Oh, and the one who has had handymen in their home without a mask (while working in another part of the house) reminded me of a thread here.  Anyway.  I hope it helps someone. 

Edited by PrincessMommy
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We have been seeing my parents-in-law indoors at their house with no mask ever since Mother's Day. 

I mentioned ds and I once volunteered for 10 hours indoors in two days following my city's riots and were exposed to a CV nurse who had CV and a few people who had or whose immediate family members were having CV. That was June 4 and 5. We did not see my in-laws for two weeks just to be safe to not infect them in case ds and I were infected. So far, no problem. 

We drove 4 hours one way for our North Shore getaway June 22-24. We have had no problem. Yesterday I brought ds15 for a haircut and Target store clothes shopping. The barber has a sign on the door "no mask, no service" but he wore his mask only to cover his mouth, with his nose fully exposed. Another customer who had his haircut by another barber wore his mask exactly the same way. So what's the point of "no mask, no service"? 

My son's school will fully open with all students and full day schedule on August 24. 

Edited by JadeOrchidSong
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My city had the largest, longest protests and it has not caused a spike. Every day now still many people go to George Floyd memorial site. Some wear masks, some don't. I am pleasantly surprised crowded, loudly yelling protests do not cause spikes. 

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I was like this in June. We were optimistic, started venturing out to order food, always wearing masks. We also shopped in person in our favorite ethnic stores. I swam 4 days a week the entire month of June. Then the cases started going up alarmingly in my state. So we are right back to where we were in the beginning of this, self imposed lockdown except more prepared I suppose. It sucks. I foolishly hoped the heat will kill off the virus though I had no evidence to back that up except optimism.  Very disheartening. So we stay indoors, venture outside as little as possible. Fall will be brutal. 

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Most of the changes I’ve made since March are normal now—grocery delivery, masking, cutting out all unnecessary trips, staying home. I imagine those are here to stay for the long term.

I've let go of wearing gloves to the store and wiping down groceries. I don’t drive enough to bother disinfecting the steering wheel, etc. It’s days between trips so I just let time do the job for me.
 

In the past few weeks I have met a friend for distanced walks and patio chats a couple times. I’ll be getting together with her more frequently, but no one else. I’m encouraging DS to run with a teammate or socialize distantly, but he’s reluctant. That’s ok too.
 

When I start to wonder if we are crazy for missing out on all things summer-y here in Vacationland, a headline will inevitably remind me that what we are doing—staying home—is making a difference. It truly is important work.

Todays stark reminder: It took 99 days to get to 1 million confirmed cases in the US, 43 days to reach 2 million, and 28 days to reach 3 million.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

This is clearly not the time to become complacent.

 

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I was never very concerned to begin with.  But, my lifestyle is already a very low risk lifestyle, and the people in my life already pretty low risk.  DH has the most risk factors, but his lifestyle is even lower risk than mine.  He leaves the house to work or to fish lol.  

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I should add, I’m less nervous now when I do need to run to the grocery or Target. We have nearly 100% compliance with masking and very few people are out (I do go first thing in the morning). Both help immensely. 

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I'm less fearful only because Massachusetts' R0 is less than 1. We've been masking since mid-March. I only wear gloves when shopping or doing yucky stuff. I don't wipe down groceries or mail. But I just changed out one family member's Totobobo filters from f96 to f94. I'm saving the higher level ones until the fall.

Edited by YaelAldrich

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I do feel more relaxed. I wear a mask when shopping (as is mandatory here) and have fairly little outside contact anyway. But I have gone out for dinner a couple of times (outside) and have let the kids meet friends and even overnight at a friend's house. However, cases are way down here (our county of around 160 k hasn't had a single case in the last eight days) so I think the benefits of social contact outweigh the risk at this point. If/when cases start rising we will reassess.

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Yeah, I went from very nervous and very cautious and very very locked down to just not caring anymore. I still (reluctantly) wear my mask out everywhere, and we do our normal hand washing and sanitizing routine, avoid crowded places, only go shopping one adult or the other - no kids. Etc etc.

But emotionally I’m tapped out and don’t care anymore. The cases keep going up but the death rates look good, complications are there but within my personal tolerance for risk. And as my own risks climb I’ve just had to choose what to worry about and what to throw my hands up over. So I made a choice to not care anymore. We are doing are thing and being careful out of consideration for others and our base level of hygiene, but emotionally I’m D.O.N.E. Either that or I will crack, and being a raving basketcase simply isn’t an option for me. I already have enough anxiety over actual real health problems I’m already managing.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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5 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah, I went from very nervous and very cautious and very very locked down to just not caring anymore. I still (reluctantly) wear my mask out everywhere, and we do our normal hand washing and sanitizing routine, avoid crowded places, only go shopping one adult or the other - no kids. Etc etc.

But emotionally I’m tapped out and don’t cares anymore. The cases keep going up but the death rates look good, complications are there but within my personal tolerance for risk. And as my own risks climb I’ve just had to choose what to worry about and what to throw my hands up over. So I made a choice to not care anymore. We are doing are thing and being careful out of consideration for others and our base level of hygiene, but emotionally I’m D.O.N.E. Either that or I will crack, and being a raving basketcase simply isn’t an option for me. I already have enough anxiety over actual real health problems I’m already managing.

Just FYI...

State positivity rate is staying a pretty consistent 5%.

Also, they are now posting "presumed recovered" on the website, by county.  Which means that for our county, there are only approx 935 active cases, for less than .2% active cases.  Even if we presume that 90% of cases are being completely missed as totally mild and/or asymptomatic...that still means that 98% of our county is NOT contagious.  Given that, I think it's totally realistic to be rather unconcerned for our area.

 

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We are continuing to be careful.   Nothing has changed in terms of how we protect ourselves....if we were doing it in March, we are still doing it.  We have never been super paranoid and the things we do to try to keep us safe are ones that I knew when I started them we would have the stamina to keep doing them.   I remain nervous about all of it--the virus--the economic impact--the future--where this all ends.    My state's numbers are continuing to rise (positive cases, hospitalizations, deaths) and that fuels my concern.    I have never been so thankful to be a homeschool family and not have to worry about how my daughter's education will look this school year.

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2 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

We have been seeing my parents-in-law indoors at their house with no mask ever since Mother's Day. 

I mentioned ds and I once volunteered for 10 hours indoors in two days following my city's riots and were exposed to a CV nurse who had CV and a few people who had or whose immediate family members were having CV. That was June 4 and 5. We did not see my in-laws for two weeks just to be safe to not infect them in case ds and I were infected. So far, no problem

We drove 4 hours one way for our North Shore getaway June 22-24. We have had no problem. Yesterday I brought ds15 for a haircut and Target store clothes shopping. The barber has a sign on the door "no mask, no service" but he wore his mask only to cover his mouth, with his nose fully exposed. Another customer who had his haircut by another barber wore his mask exactly the same way. So what's the point of "no mask, no service"? 

My son's school will fully open with all students and full day schedule on August 24. 

 

Keep in mind that the virus’s infectivity and severity of infection if you or a family member get infected has little to do with your nervousness or lack thereof.   “So far no problem” is inevitably true and has been true for every other person including those who have gotten it up to the moment when / if there is a problem. 

Maybe It’s kind of like rolling a few dice. “So far no triple sixes.”  

 

4 hours ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

Now I continue to wear a good mask when I go indoor shopping, wash my hands a few times a day, and keep a good distance with people. Not touching my face without first washing my hands has become an ingrained habit. But I have stopped disinfecting. 

 

Mask , distance, handwashing all are likely to help in reality to decrease spread. 

 

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We did the gloves, mask, changing clothes, shoes when we got home, washing hands, disinfecting every grocery items first month.  Then we just didn't see the "numbers" they were predicting so we didn't do so much.  Then I realized every grocery workers I am familiar with for years are still working, masked up now, but they are all still there, not out with covid from all their exposure to people.  There is now a mask mandate in our county.  

Edited by lynn
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4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Keep in mind that the virus’s infectivity and severity of infection if you or a family member get infected has little to do with your nervousness or lack thereof.   “So far no problem” is inevitably true and has been true for every other person including those who have gotten it up to the moment when / if there is a problem. 

Maybe It’s kind of like rolling a few dice. “So far no triple sixes.”  

 

 

Mask , distance, handwashing all are likely to help in reality to decrease spread. 

 

I am very careful. I haven't been to any crowded places except the two days volunteering to help my virus and riot-induced food famined (due to rioting, looting, burning down grocery stores and pharmacies and post office in my immediate neighborhood) neighbors. And I would not have subjected myself to the exposure to the people who had CV or cared for CV patients had I known what situation I got myself into. 

With that said, I believe no matter how careful you are, you cannot be guaranteed safe from the virus 100%. We need to be careful, but not so careful that it drives us nuts and into the ground. 

To live is to risk. Wise, careful people as well as foolish, reckless people die from accidents of all sorts alike. 

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1 hour ago, peacelovehomeschooling said:

We are continuing to be careful.   Nothing has changed in terms of how we protect ourselves....if we were doing it in March, we are still doing it.  We have never been super paranoid and the things we do to try to keep us safe are ones that I knew when I started them we would have the stamina to keep doing them.   I remain nervous about all of it--the virus--the economic impact--the future--where this all ends.    My state's numbers are continuing to rise (positive cases, hospitalizations, deaths) and that fuels my concern.    I have never been so thankful to be a homeschool family and not have to worry about how my daughter's education will look this school year.

Ds17 will do his 12th grade year as DE student at our state university. Ds15 went to a nearby small private Christian high school for 9th grade last school year. I signed him up online homeschool classes for fear the virus would change everything for next school year at the private high school. But then the rioting and burning and destroying happened. My whole neighborhood still reeks of reminant smoke from so many businesses burned to the ground. That actually changed our decision for schooling for him. We think he needs to be with his high school community, riding the virus waves and processing social unrest with his peers and teachers. He is prone to feeling depressed from isolation due to homeschooling. He craves daily interaction with people his age and live, direct instruction in person for each subject in a class setting. So yes, there is higher risk and uncertainty, but for this kid, continuing with the school community he invested in for a year and enjoyed is the right schooling option. 

So I have learned a lot about living with insecurity, risks, and willingness to accept the possible undesirable consequences. 

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2 minutes ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

Ds17 will do his 12th grade year as DE student at our state university. Ds15 went to a nearby small private Christian high school for 9th grade last school year. I signed him up online homeschool classes for fear the virus would change everything for next school year at the private high school. But then the rioting and burning and destroying happened. My whole neighborhood still reeks of reminant smoke from so many businesses burned to the ground. That actually changed our decision for schooling for him. We think he needs to be with his high school community, riding the virus waves and processing social unrest with his peers and teachers. He is prone to feeling depressed from isolation due to homeschooling. He craves daily interaction with people his age and live, direct instruction in person for each subject in a class setting. So yes, there is higher risk and uncertainty, but for this kid, continuing with the school community he invested in for a year and enjoyed is the right schooling option. 

So I have learned a lot about living with insecurity, risks, and willingness to accept the possible undesirable consequences. 

The wonderful thing is that there are different options so we can choose what works best for our children and our families.   What works for one person/child/family may not work for another one, and that is perfectly okay.   We also each have our own threshold for what can handle and tolerate.   Luckily we get to make these decisions for ourselves and as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others, all is good (at least with me it is).    My daughter is an enthusiastic homeschooler and embraces all aspects of it.   We are both introverts and find the world to be too loud and too much for us a lot of the time.  We have found what works for us.  It sounds like you and your sons have found what works for you.   Finding what works is a gift.  

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28 minutes ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

With that said, I believe no matter how careful you are, you cannot be guaranteed safe from the virus 100%. We need to be careful, but not so careful that it drives us nuts and into the ground. 

 

That’s true.  I was not ever at a use a rock to ring doorbell state of nervousness with this, so I am glad you are less stressed now.

 

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I know this will make me the equivalent of a leper here but my life is back to normal. And no, I don’t usually mask unless I will be indoors for long periods of time in places that request or require masks. That said, we have always encouraged frequent hand washing and my tolerance for people in my personal space is fairly low so social distancing has not been an issue. Also, I am in a state with a falling death rate, a falling positivity rate, and even though numbers are rising in the cities, I am in a rural area with very low numbers with friends who also live in places with low numbers and who mostly work from home. Pretty much everything we do with other people in the summer is outdoors anyway except for brief shopping trips. We have one extremely high risk family member and I have been reading the research shared here; these decisions were not made lightly or without reflection and are subject to change based on the local situation. I just do not see a need to apply the same standards to every area of the country or even state when so many different factors are at play.

Edited by mms
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I am going to the grocery store a little more frequently (was going every 14 days and now every 7), and we moved... so there's that big one. But the overwhelming feeling of fear (and one minor panic attack) I had going to the grocery store in March and April is gone. The  That doesn't mean I think I am at any less risk, in fact probably more as COVID is transmitted to new areas. We lived through the daily doctor's updates on my BIL and every horrible symptom and suffering he went through while in the hospital with COVID. So we know how bad it can get. So you'd think I would be still just as panicky, but I am careful but calm. Not sure how that happened mentally. Maybe some kind of fear fatigue? Can't sustain that level of alertness for months?

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I still get most of my groceries as a pickup. I mask exclusively when indoors and away from home. Now, my mask stays on the entire church service. Dh and I have gotten take out twice since March. We went on a beach vacation and brought all our food from home and ate in the cottage. We did get coffee, but everyone was masked and distant. 

I am actually more concerned now, because our numbers are higher and Dh's job is seeing positives as well. For the job he does, the entire day crew is out sick. He is working extra days to cover for them (He usually works nights, but they pulled him to days.) If we hadn't been away at the beach, he would have been exposed. 

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21 minutes ago, peacelovehomeschooling said:

The wonderful thing is that there are different options so we can choose what works best for our children and our families.   What works for one person/child/family may not work for another one, and that is perfectly okay.   We also each have our own threshold for what can handle and tolerate.   Luckily we get to make these decisions for ourselves and as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others, all is good (at least with me it is).    My daughter is an enthusiastic homeschooler and embraces all aspects of it.   We are both introverts and find the world to be too loud and too much for us a lot of the time.  We have found what works for us.  It sounds like you and your sons have found what works for you.   Finding what works is a gift.  

I totally agree! Ds17 is introverted and would never go to a regular high school. He is happily homeschooled and now going full time 12th for DE classes. 

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While we've learned more about COVID and there is going to be some change in behavior due to figuring things out, I think a lot of relaxation is based on normalization of risk - basically, if you do something multiple times without problem, you stop treating it as risky even if the risk hasn't changed or even has increased.

I was relaxing a lot, but when DH and I looked at the essentials together, we realized it was just that I had normalized risk and that things were actually riskier in many ways. Since then, I've been trying to be more cognizant of actual risk vs perceived risk.

Emily

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4 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

While we've learned more about COVID and there is going to be some change in behavior due to figuring things out, I think a lot of relaxation is based on normalization of risk - basically, if you do something multiple times without problem, you stop treating it as risky even if the risk hasn't changed or even has increased.

I was relaxing a lot, but when DH and I looked at the essentials together, we realized it was just that I had normalized risk and that things were actually riskier in many ways. Since then, I've been trying to be more cognizant of actual risk vs perceived risk.

Emily

 

Thank you.  I was trying to get at this in a post above, but this is much better expressed! And the link is very good link also.

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23 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

While we've learned more about COVID and there is going to be some change in behavior due to figuring things out, I think a lot of relaxation is based on normalization of risk - basically, if you do something multiple times without problem, you stop treating it as risky even if the risk hasn't changed or even has increased.

I was relaxing a lot, but when DH and I looked at the essentials together, we realized it was just that I had normalized risk and that things were actually riskier in many ways. Since then, I've been trying to be more cognizant of actual risk vs perceived risk.

Emily

I never felt any fear in the past. It was more like, “Ok, troops. There’s an enemy out there and we’re going to dig a trench and prepare and take no chances!”

But now I feel like I have a better idea of where the enemy is and what their capabilities are.  So instead of implementing sweeping cautionary activities, I feel like I can pinpoint the actual areas of risk in my life and relax areas that aren’t as risk filled.  

I don’t spray bleach water and let it sit for 10 minutes on all cold my groceries before putting them in the fridge/freezer anymore, and I don’t make my canned goods stay in a 48 hour jail until I put them away.  I don’t put the mail in mail jail for 48 hours anymore. I did all those things until early June.  I was at the point where I would use a rock to ring doorbells (I didn’t do that, but I would have done something like it) and I’m not at that point as much anymore. I don’t worry that I’m contaminating my mailbox handle for the letter carrier anymore. Information kept confirming that It’s just not likely to catch this from objects.  It’s from all the breathing.

However, I do still carry a bottle of water and a dispenser of soap with me and I wash my hands in the parking lot after I load the groceries in the trunk before I get into the cab of the car.  Don’t want germy hands all over the interior of the car.  Touching one or two things is ok, but when I’ve bought 2 weeks’ worth of stuff, I feel grimy when I”m done handling it all. 

With a pained sigh, I am letting my sons hang out indoor with some friends because I fear for their mental health otherwise, but my husband and I don’t go indoors to be with friends. In the past, it would have been a hard no the kids for hanging out indoors with friends for the boys.  I know it’s risky, but it’s always the same set of friends, and I am just simply going out on a limb and taking the risk by letting them be with friends.  They’re 15 and 17 and if they were younger I wouldn’t let them.  But something about them being older and needing peers makes it really hard to say no.  

We mask up in public, especially indoors.  

I never had fear and still don’t. I do feel like I have a better understanding of where the danger is, so I can relax my high alert status.  We went from red alert and are at yellow alert right now.

 

Edited by Garga
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2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Just FYI...

State positivity rate is staying a pretty consistent 5%.

Also, they are now posting "presumed recovered" on the website, by county.  Which means that for our county, there are only approx 935 active cases, for less than .2% active cases.  Even if we presume that 90% of cases are being completely missed as totally mild and/or asymptomatic...that still means that 98% of our county is NOT contagious.  Given that, I think it's totally realistic to be rather unconcerned for our area.

 

Our state (Georgia) added new info to our daily update- number of hospitalizations since the previous day, and positive rate of viral test(not antibody). Today’s new cases: 3420. New deaths- 23. New hospitalizations:274.  %PCR positive: 14.8%.    Our state flagship uni is in our town and last night the city/county voted to implement mandatory mask rule while in public, including people working outside. (hearing a lot of complaints about that).      I said all that to say that I wish our positivity rate was as low as yours!!

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I do do believe there's such thing as "fear fatigue". It is exhausting to be on high alert for long. I agree with Garga. It is not that the risk is any lower, it's that we know more and have been living with it longer now. 

I used to have this doomed feeling, anxious to know when is the end. Now I know there is probably no end. 

I figure after all the precautions I take, if I get infected and die, then I can't help it. It's OK to die. 

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2 hours ago, Garga said:

 

I never had fear and still don’t. I do feel like I have a better understanding of where the danger is, so I can relax my high alert status.  We went from red alert and are at yellow alert right now.

 

I think the soldier analogy is a good one, that was my mental state as well for the most part.

I have actually found the discussions here far more useful than anything else and these have helped me figure out how to behave under the circumstances. It is not the conclusions those posters would have wanted me to reach, but either we take out all personal responsibility and decision making power or we have to accept that well intentioned people can look at the same evidence and draw differing conclusions about what actions to take.

And also the below.

40 minutes ago, JadeOrchidSong said:

I do do believe there's such thing as "fear fatigue". It is exhausting to be on high alert for long. I agree with Garga. It is not that the risk is any lower, it's that we know more and have been living with it longer now. 

I used to have this doomed feeling, anxious to know when is the end. Now I know there is probably no end. 

I figure after all the precautions I take, if I get infected and die, then I can't help it. It's OK to die. 

Edited by mms
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I am mostly back to normal although some things have only just started due to restrictions.  We only have 3 cases and they are all in supervised quarantine.  1000 people crossed the border from vic last night to beat the hard closure so hopefully it doesn’t sneak in but if it does it does.

I know I relate everything to bushfire because that’s the scariest thing I’ve experienced.  But this that people are describing feels to me like the end of Fire season.  When you get that one last raging hot windy day and you really can’t be bothered packing up to evacuate yet again.  Your adrenaline surges are used up.    In some ways it’s probably a healthy response because living in a state of heightened vigilance can have long term impacts.  Just as long as we are still doing good risk calculations mentally when our natural response mechanisms let up.

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I don't feel nervous but I'm being very careful still. Scotland's figures are very good, but I worry about people's jobs and delays in other necessary medical treatments if we have to lock down again. So I'm making an effort to avoid that. The population of Scotland is 5.5 million:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

I wear a mask outside the house whenever I can't be sure of staying two metres distant. We haven't invited our cleaners back, and we haven't been to the doctor, dentist or hairdresser. Husband needs to see the physio soon, but the protocols are good.  We are moving house next week, and will be wearing respirators and washing our hands a lot. We meet friends outside at two metres distance.

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I used to disinfect just about everything that came through the door, wash produce before storing,quarantine packages, etc. I did not venture out to a shop for many weeks, staying up till 2 AM when delivery slots became available to reserve one.

I still get delivery for most things and only go into shops for small things like fresh bread, but I no longer disinfect packages or groceries. I wear a mask outdoors when it's not possible to be pretty far away from others, but I don't typically wear one when I go for a walk in the neighborhood. I walk early, and I see maybe one or two people, and someone crosses the street to distance. In that sense, my immediate area is still reasonably good, but I am starting to see more masks below the nose, which is concerning.

Our area was fairly stable for a few weeks, so we went to the beach 3 times - arrived there before 7 am and left around 9 am. There were very few people around. We did use the bathrooms because it was nearly empty, but we have a little camping portapotty that we carry with us. I put clumping cat litter (don't get light weight, that doesn't work very well!) in a double-lined garbage bag, and the setup works well in emergencies. We have a truck with rear seats that can be folded up, tinted rear windows, and it is doable for an adult to use the portapotty in the passenger area with reasonable privacy. We also carry a big water jug and soap.

Now the cases are starting to go up again, and I am becoming more diligent. We have outdoor dining here, and setup varies widely. Some places faithfully put large distances between tables, but many have nearly no distancing. As we drove past some restaurants recently, my husband said that it's basically the same as eating inside, chairs back to back, very crowded. We got some takeout, but we will not be going to a restaurant that offers outside dining, even for takeout. I don't see enough compliance for my own personal comfort.

Also, we haven't been back to the beach. Even though the area is capped at 50% and cars are being sent away after that (single entrance/exit with parking beyond), I am not comfortable right now. Maybe later in the season, very early in the morning when it's too cold for most sunbathers. We'll see.

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I will say that I am feeling less stressed about surfaces although I am still careful.  I shop with a mask and after I get back in my car I use a lot of sanitizer on my hands.  I work very hard to not touch my face and this is becoming a habit now. I have read a lot and I do feel the biggest risk is other people breathing on me or me breathing the air they exhaled into.  That makes me feel less stressed and a little more in control of my risk. We aren’t around people except for work and we are all focusing on staying away from our co workers.  Both of us  (Dh and me) work in small offices/for small companies.  Dss19 is doing remodeling work and is only around the two people he works with.  
 

However I am feeling much more stressed out about the very real possibility that this way of life is going to be another year or maybe two.  That makes me sad thinking things we will miss out on.

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We've stayed pretty much the same our area is much worse now than when this started.   I'm a more likely to make a quick trip to the store instead of using all delivery.  We never wiped groceries etc because.i never thought surface transmission made sense.  We just wash our hands a lot.  Our caution has always been related to DH job and not risking other people or causing them to take extreme measures to stay open. 

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18 hours ago, mms said:

I know this will make me the equivalent of a leper here but my life is back to normal. And no, I don’t usually mask unless I will be indoors for long periods of time in places that request or require masks. That said, we have always encouraged frequent hand washing and my tolerance for people in my personal space is fairly low so social distancing has not been an issue. Also, I am in a state with a falling death rate, a falling positivity rate, and even though numbers are rising in the cities, I am in a rural area with very low numbers with friends who also live in places with low numbers and who mostly work from home. Pretty much everything we do with other people in the summer is outdoors anyway except for brief shopping trips. We have one extremely high risk family member and I have been reading the research shared here; these decisions were not made lightly or without reflection and are subject to change based on the local situation. I just do not see a need to apply the same standards to every area of the country or even state when so many different factors are at play.


We are basically at normal too.  We went camping this week, I have my nephew and my cousin’s son for a few days,  we’ve been to two birthday parties over the weekend and we’ve been swimming at the outdoor pool in the state park.  I’ve been out to eat a few times though I usually sit out doors because I prefer that.  Masking in public here is mandatory anyway.  At work we’re no longer using N95 and eye protection with every patient, just a surgical mask and gloves.  I never disinfected groceries or mail, and the data is really indicating small chances of surface transmission anyway.

Covid never hit much here.  There’s been one positive in the last month.  The tourists are back streaming into my village so I suspect we’ll get some new positive cases soon though.  
The goal has never been eradication. Covid is now here to stay.  We may all develop antibodies over time to fight it off or it may mutate into a milder strain, but it’s not going anywhere.  None of us can stay in place forever; eventually we’ll all have to learn to coexist with disease.

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Nothing has changed for me. I never thought surface transmission was likely so I was never disinfecting packages/groceries/mail/etc. I've worn a mask everywhere in public from day 1, and probably 90-95% of people in my area were masking even before the state-wide mandate, but now I'm seeing 100% compliance everywhere I've been. I took the dog to the groomer this morning for the first time since February, and they are only allowing one client inside at a time, you have to be masked, and instead of handing your pet directly to the groomer, you have to put them in a gated area and then someone takes them back. I haven't been to the hairdresser since January, and probably won't for a while. I'm still trying to keep my trips to the store to once/week or less, and am there as soon as they open, and I'm getting groceries delivered every other week. No restaurants or even take-out (but I don't eat out normally anyway).

The big question for me is what's going to happen with DS's university in the fall. He really wants to go back no matter what, because all his friends are there, but if all classes end up online and there are no varsity sports, then I think the possibility of him getting seriously ill 2500 miles from home outweighs the benefit of being able to see his friends. It just doesn't seem like there are going to be any good options this fall, just a choice between two sucky options. ☹️

Edited by Corraleno
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1 hour ago, rebcoola said:

 We never wiped groceries etc because.i never thought surface transmission made sense.  We just wash our hands a lot.  

Ok, I see this a lot, and I'm NOT trying to argue, but I'm curious/confused. Washing hands it due to concerns about surface transmission, right? So I see people say they wash their hands after getting groceries, to be safe, but that they don't see a point in wiping down groceries, because it isn't transmitted by surfaces. But if one is washing hands to clean off the germs from surface transmission, isn't that saying surface transmission IS a thing? Or is the idea that it probably isn't, but washing hands is easy, so might as well, where wiping down/spraying groceries/packages is hard, so not worth the added trouble, given the risk?

I just see people say they are careful to sanitize hands after leaving the store touching stuff, but then touch all that stuff again while unloading it and putting it away, or getting it out to use later in the day...

 

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I'm at about the same level of concern because it was never ever really too scary to me (odd since I'm an overly anxious person). However, I'm much more concerned about the state of country now compared to March, and it's directly related to covid. 

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