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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Correct. And it looks like antibodies are an underestimate, too, since some people develop T-cell responses but no antibody response. So it's entirely possible NYC is half-way or more to herd immunity, with some pockets much closer than others. 

Yeah, but man, IF that is correct, and IF T cell response lasts a decent amount of time, that still means they'd need to DOUBLE the catastrophe they already had, to get to full immunity. 

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Our society needs kids to be in school.  Our economy sure as hell needs kids in school full time.  Many kids need to be in school, for a wide variety of reasons.   But kids in school is only safe

From my perspective, because of what they've done, crap upon crap happens. Obviously the pandemic itself was out of everyone's control.  But as we have seen around the world, a population's behav

One of our good friends is a family practice physician and they were getting swamped by requests by adults when the mask requirements came out. They got together and unanimously decided their response

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Yeah, but man, IF that is correct, and IF T cell response lasts a decent amount of time, that still means they'd need to DOUBLE the catastrophe they already had, to get to full immunity. 

Yep. Noooo thank you. But it probably is at least protective in some pockets. It certainly does cut rate of transmission. (No, it's nowhere near worth the cost we've paid here :-(. ) 

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4 hours ago, SKL said:

Yeah, planning is really not a thing in 2020.  The people who are supposed to know stuff get it wrong and change their story day after day.  There really is no point complaining about a lack of planning.  I really believe they are working harder than ever on trying to plan.

Well, perhaps you’ve forgotten that this is a novel coronavirus. Those who are supposed to know stuff? Are you complaining about scientists or our fearless leaders? Because yes, they were wrong on some things and had to change course as we learned more about the, you know, novel virus.

And you’re miserably wrong about there being no point to complaining about planning- this is something our fearless leaders are tasked to do as, you know, leaders. Admitting to planning shortcomings, understanding their effects, it all is part of the next planning phase for the next novel pandemic. Because, you know, there will be one. See, people in the know were telling us there’d be one like this one, and they’re telling us loudly about ones coming in the future.

But there will always be naysayers. They remind me of people who laugh and scoff after a  hurricane doesn’t do the tremendous damage as was predicted, so they screech about know-nothing weather forecasters and scoff at climate warnings. There’s a word for people like that, but again, you already know it.

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3 hours ago, happi duck said:

I hate how the U.S. is operating.  It is so frustrating.

The initial shutdown should have been the time to prepare for a new reality and instead so many people just expected to burst out of lockdown into the same old world.

This is all so short sighted.

I'm seeing "schools must open" without any real safety in mind.  Teachers must be protected or we'll be in a worse situation later when schools close down because there aren't enough teachers left to teach because they're ill or burnt out.

The U.S. can not expect to "positive think" our way out of this.  Our lack of real leadership has caused real devastation and our country needs to deal truthfully with the fact that we are in a far worse situation than other countries.  

@Bootsie

I had no idea I needed to clarify:  I know that teachers were thrown into teaching remotely and were busy.

My first three paragraphs are general.

My next paragraph is specific to the "just open the schools, what's the big deal?" crowd.  Teachers must be protected.

My last paragraph is my thoughts on the attitude that crossing one's fingers is enough of a plan.

I care about education.  I care about teachers.  In no way could I imagine my post being taken as a criticism of teachers.  Hence my need to clarify.

Teachers must be protected in real ways or we are kicking the can down the road for a bigger disaster.

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Our district just released the results of the survey they put out for parents, teachers, and secondary students.  I don't see how they will even use it to more easily make decisions.  Results were so mixed.

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2 minutes ago, myblessings4 said:

Our district just released the results of the survey they put out for parents, teachers, and secondary students.  I don't see how they will even use it to more easily make decisions.  Results were so mixed.

This is a public health crisis.  What people do or don't vote for on a survey is not going to affect how the virus acts.  

Meanwhile, our superintendent apparently made a unilateral announcement,  uninformed by either public health experts OR parents, or even the school committee.  So, I guess that's worse...  I don't think his suggestions at going to end up sticking, though. People are livid.

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2 hours ago, happi duck said:

@Bootsie

I had no idea I needed to clarify:  I know that teachers were thrown into teaching remotely and were busy.

My first three paragraphs are general.

My next paragraph is specific to the "just open the schools, what's the big deal?" crowd.  Teachers must be protected.

My last paragraph is my thoughts on the attitude that crossing one's fingers is enough of a plan.

I care about education.  I care about teachers.  In no way could I imagine my post being taken as a criticism of teachers.  Hence my need to clarify.

Teachers must be protected in real ways or we are kicking the can down the road for a bigger disaster.

I didn't take this as a criticism of teachers.  I am just thinking about what could have been done differently.  I am at a university--which has its own issues--but I know that the "planning" at all levels has been non-stop since early March.  It is hard for anyone to simultaneously manage a crisis and plan for a difficult situation.  Unfortunately, we didn't have the luxury of taking a few weeks off to plan and prepare what to do, which would have been a monumental task, even if that is the only thing that we had to do.  

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My dc’s University just announced a mandatory Covid test to return to campus. The problem is it must not be more than 10 days prior to returning and they have to have results before they return. Many places are having quite a wait for results now due to demand and numbers spiking. On campus residents also don’t yet even know their move in date as it will be spread over 10 days this year. The town where the uni is located is already booked three weeks out for tests. This is going to be an absolute mess!

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3 minutes ago, Joker said:

My dc’s University just announced a mandatory Covid test to return to campus. The problem is it must not be more than 10 days prior to returning and they have to have results before they return. Many places are having quite a wait for results now due to demand and numbers spiking. On campus residents also don’t yet even know their move in date as it will be spread over 10 days this year. The town where the uni is located is already booked three weeks out for tests. This is going to be an absolute mess!

Next they're going to ask you to find and bring a unicorn.

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2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Next they're going to ask you to find and bring a unicorn.

They need to ask kids to quarantine when they get there, then they need to test them themselves. Nothing else is going to work. 

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oh look: the camp in North Georgia that had to shut down after a counselor tested positive now reports that 18% of campers and staff (all between 7 and 22--85 people total) have tested positive now. But I'm sure that opening schools with fewer precaution than the camp took (I know that all staff at least had a negative test before they started) will go FINE. Because kids can't spread the virus.

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1 minute ago, kokotg said:

oh look: the camp in North Georgia that had to shut down after a counselor tested positive now reports that 18% of campers and staff (all between 7 and 22) have tested positive now. But I'm sure that opening schools with fewer precaution than the camp took (I know that all staff at least had a negative test before they started) will go FINE. Because kids can't spread the virus.

That's the thing -- even if kids don't spread the virus, teens do for sure, and I'm really curious what rate of spread is for different age groups and whether it's a jump between low spread/high spread or more of a continuous function. 

And we have enough COVID going around that we can't assume that the adults don't have it. And those WILL spread it to the students. 

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

They need to ask kids to quarantine when they get there, then they need to test them themselves. Nothing else is going to work. 

Yeah, but how are they going to do that with roommates, shared toilets, and classes starting??  And what about food?  The kids don't move in 2 weeks before classes start...

Again so glad my kids are in apartments...

My youngest might actually still be with us; she's having a hard time lining up a roommate for even an apartment (harder because right now she'd like someone she knows already and trusts not use safe practices...).  She only had one real semester at school, and now this year might be home, and then she's graduating...  Ugh.  

My new mantra: it is what it is.

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2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yeah, but how are they going to do that with roommates, shared toilets, and classes starting??  And what about food?  The kids don't move in 2 weeks before classes start...

Hire people to bring kids groceries?? I really don't know, but this is such a disaster in the making that it's worth all sorts of absurd precautions. 

2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Again so glad my kids are in apartments...

My youngest might actually still be with us; she's having a hard time lining up a roommate for even an apartment (harder because right now she'd like someone she knows already and trusts not use safe practices...).  She only had one real semester at school, and now this year might be home, and then she's graduating...  Ugh.  

My new mantra: it is what it is.

It is what it is is right. I'm currently staring at another year of a severely circumscribed life, and it is what it is. You do what you gotta do. 

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Hire people to bring kids groceries?? I really don't know, but this is such a disaster in the making that it's worth all sorts of absurd precautions. 

Just as long as they don't hire 'security guards' like the ones in Australia... yikes.

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18 minutes ago, square_25 said:

They need to ask kids to quarantine when they get there, then they need to test them themselves. Nothing else is going to work. 

But then, as soon as they get that negative result, what stops them from hitting up a party that night and catching it? I mean, you can't keep them in lock down the whole time they are there - they will leave campus to shop, eat, hit bars if open, go to parties off campus, etc. 

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Just now, Ktgrok said:

But then, as soon as they get that negative result, what stops them from hitting up a party that night and catching it? I mean, you can't keep them in lock down the whole time they are there - they will leave campus to shop, eat, hit bars if open, go to parties off campus, etc. 

Well, nothing, but in areas with low rates, the kids could cause a spike, and that's less likely if we don't let them out for a while... 

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Well, nothing, but in areas with low rates, the kids could cause a spike, and that's less likely if we don't let them out for a while... 

Oh, gotcha! It would stop them from bringing it with them to a low area. I wasn't htinking about that. 

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

What's going on there? 

A security guard was sleeping with the people he was supposed to be guarding and spread it ...a LOT. 

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Just now, square_25 said:

What's going on there? 

Apparently some of the guards they hired to make sure people were staying in quarantine (I think these are repatriated Australians?) decided to have s*x with some of the people in quarantine instead (!) got infected, brought the Corona home to their families, and voila - outbreak!

No, sadly, I am not making this up... https://www.the-sun.com/news/us-news/1081117/australia-melbourne-spike-sex-hotels/

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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh, gotcha! It would stop them from bringing it with them to a low area. I wasn't htinking about that. 

Yeah, I can see why you weren't, given where you are!! But here in NYC, next door to Columbia, we're pretty worried about that :-/. 

Not that I want college kids to get it, but I'm overall less worried about the students getting sick and more worried about them making more vulnerable people around them sick. 

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A security guard was sleeping with the people he was supposed to be guarding and spread it ...a LOT. 

Oh yuck. 

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There’s also the whole idea that parents don’t have to be tested but we’ll be moving our kids in. Ds is an apartment but he is still required to get a test before classes start even though it’s looking like all of his will be online. It all seems so pointless! 

We’re seriously talking with dd about just staying home and trying dorms her sophomore year. 

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1 hour ago, square_25 said:

What's going on there? 

Supposedly security guards in quarantine had certain intimate relations with the people they were supposed to be quarantining.  Some accusations say in return for allowing them out for short periods of time.  
 

also at least one of the security guards attended a large family party (illegal) which initiated some of the spread linked to the school.

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12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Supposedly security guards in quarantine had certain intimate relations with the people they were supposed to be quarantining.  Some accusations say in return for allowing them out for short periods of time.  
 

also at least one of the security guards attended a large family party (illegal) which initiated some of the spread linked to the school.

And resulted in the whole greater Melbourne area in full lockdown, state borders closed. having to go through roadblocks to to leave the Melbourne area to return to rural areas. Thousands of businesses closed again, a whole city not leaving their houses, people getting sick and dying just because some guards had sex with the people they were meant to be guarding. 

What selfish jerks

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Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

And resulted in the whole greater Melbourne area in full lockdown, state borders closed. having to go through roadblocks to to leave the Melbourne area to return to rural areas. Thousands of businesses closed again, a whole city not leaving their houses, people getting sick and dying just because some guards had sex with the people they were meant to be guarding. 

What selfish jerks

Yep.  I think the people involved want to hope and pray there names don’t get publicised right now.  

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7 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Oh, but the price NYC paid for that level of antibodies...😢

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

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Well, that’s why I’m for opening up, with some minor suppression as needed for spikes that outpace the medical. Because there isn’t really a better alternative IMO. 
 

That’s why I suffer in the bleeping masks, it’s the least evil option when there is active or growing community spread. 

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I live near a university. Next month, thousands of students from all over the country (and world) will move into my city. I don't have a lot of hope that they'll all stay in dorm rooms and apartments when they get here. We need the students because the university is the largest employer in the county, but I'm afraid it may not go well.

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I've been living like a turtle lately only concentrating on my immediate surroundings when it comes to looking at data, how to figure out what to do to live life as a family, concentrating on my kids. It helped keep me positive. DH and I spent more than a month researching curriculum before ultimately deciding to go with the Virtual academy offered by our PS because meant a bit of stability in a wildly changing world. We try to shield our kids from all that is happening is so many ways and I have so much angst about it each day. But my kid is safe, he will be at home studying. 

But today I lost it. I cried because of the international students and a certain tweet. It has been close to 20 years when I was one, but it felt so fresh and what is happening feels so personal because there are so few experiences I can identify with so much. It is just so unfair that they are being used as pawns. It changes how people look at the US, America's position in the world as a "leader of the free world" which most countries do not dispute. It changes how students look at this country as a bastion of education and aspirational around the world they are prepared to leave everything they know and jump on a plane often for the very first time in their lives,

I have seen this country through leaders of  both parties, both from near and afar. Nothing I have seen lately resembles any of that. It's like the very fabric of what this country stands for is unraveling or the one that is in my head I don't know but my heart is broken for how the pandemic is being used to exploit vulnerable people in every way. Students are some of the most vulnerable and using them as a  political tool is just not right.

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26 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

Do you really think there is only a 1% chance of a vaccine that works, or a treatment that makes this more manageable? Hopefully that's just exhaustion talking. We have a vaccine getting ready to go to phase 3 trials, we have new treatments coming out every week, etc. Science takes time, it just does. It's too early to give up. 

In the meantime, we try to do things that the economy requires in the safest way possible, to buy time for a vaccine or better treatments. Thinks like masking, staying home when you can, working from home if you can, schooling at home if you can, keeping distance from others, not congregating indoors, etc. 

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1 minute ago, Dreamergal said:

I've been living like a turtle lately only concentrating on my immediate surroundings when it comes to looking at data, how to figure out what to do to live life as a family, concentrating on my kids. It helped keep me positive. DH and I spent more than a month researching curriculum before ultimately deciding to go with the Virtual academy offered by our PS because meant a bit of stability in a wildly changing world. We try to shield our kids from all that is happening is so many ways and I have so much angst about it each day. But my kid is safe, he will be at home studying. 

But today I lost it. I cried because of the international students and a certain tweet. It has been close to 20 years when I was one, but it felt so fresh and what is happening feels so personal because there are so few experiences I can identify with so much. It is just so unfair that they are being used as pawns. It changes how people look at the US, America's position in the world as a "leader of the free world" which most countries do not dispute. It changes how students look at this country as a bastion of education and aspirational around the world they are prepared to leave everything they know and jump on a plane often for the very first time in their lives,

I have seen this country through leaders both parties, both from near and afar. Nothing I have seen lately resembles any of that. It's like the very fabric of what this country stands for is unraveling or the one that is in my head I don't know but my heart is broken for what the pandemic is being used to exploit vulnerable people in every way. Students are some of the most vulnerable and using them as a  political tool is just not right.

The thing with international students doesn't make any sense to me. They have no control over which of their classes will be online or in person. Our local university has already said they will do whatever they need to do to make sure none of our international students are in a position where they have to leave. I'm friends with people who work in the office with international students and I'm sure they can find a way to get them into at least one in person class.

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14 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I've been living like a turtle lately only concentrating on my immediate surroundings when it comes to looking at data, how to figure out what to do to live life as a family, concentrating on my kids. It helped keep me positive. DH and I spent more than a month researching curriculum before ultimately deciding to go with the Virtual academy offered by our PS because meant a bit of stability in a wildly changing world. We try to shield our kids from all that is happening is so many ways and I have so much angst about it each day. But my kid is safe, he will be at home studying. 

But today I lost it. I cried because of the international students and a certain tweet. It has been close to 20 years when I was one, but it felt so fresh and what is happening feels so personal because there are so few experiences I can identify with so much. It is just so unfair that they are being used as pawns. It changes how people look at the US, America's position in the world as a "leader of the free world" which most countries do not dispute. It changes how students look at this country as a bastion of education and aspirational around the world they are prepared to leave everything they know and jump on a plane often for the very first time in their lives,

I have seen this country through leaders of  both parties, both from near and afar. Nothing I have seen lately resembles any of that. It's like the very fabric of what this country stands for is unraveling or the one that is in my head I don't know but my heart is broken for how the pandemic is being used to exploit vulnerable people in every way. Students are some of the most vulnerable and using them as a  political tool is just not right.

I was so glad to see Susan wise Bauer come out with clear opposition to that.  Not having people come in made sense early in the epidemic but sending people home makes literally no sense right now!

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All signs indicate that masks work.  If people would wear them, we could open up more.  Treatments are getting better all the time.  Vaccines are working their way through trials.   

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55 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

I tend to assume the exit strategy is being careful until we get a vaccine. That means opening quite a lot of things slowly and monitoring, not staying shut down, though. I see no reason to assume there won’t be a vaccine within a reasonable amount of time.

If that fails, we’ll probably wind up letting this run through the population at immense human cost, although it’s possible we’ll also in the meantime find good treatments.

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55 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Do you really think there is only a 1% chance of a vaccine that works, or a treatment that makes this more manageable? Hopefully that's just exhaustion talking. We have a vaccine getting ready to go to phase 3 trials, we have new treatments coming out every week, etc. Science takes time, it just does. It's too early to give up. 

In the meantime, we try to do things that the economy requires in the safest way possible, to buy time for a vaccine or better treatments. Thinks like masking, staying home when you can, working from home if you can, schooling at home if you can, keeping distance from others, not congregating indoors, etc. 

 

.

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1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

 

There isn’t a specific exit strategy because there are too many unknown unknowns.

But if life seemed okay to you, worth living, befoRe CV19, keep in mind that that life was life after a number of past pandemics. 

This is a remarkably fast learning about this virus. A vaccine isn’t guaranteed, but one may be ready in record time.  

We know quite a lot more than we did in January. 

We have some basic strategies like Physical Distance + Masks + Hygiene that we can use...

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3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

Many countries have gone into Phase 3 of human trials for a vaccine. If one of them works, it is just a matter of time for other makers of vaccines to license that vaccine for mass production. Until then, we need to wear masks in public (because they help prevent the spread through droplets), make use of online schools and social distancing. We are not in lockdown still - the economy is slowly chugging along - there are so many huge construction projects being started in my city, it is as if they decided to use this time to finish all the construction that would normally obstruct the public and traffic. We need to find ways to optimize our time and do things that will not be easy or possible in normal times in order to move forward.

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27 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I saw it on FB... I'll see if I can hunt down the post...

Okay, I think this is the link?  It was posted on the REA FB page. 

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On 7/8/2020 at 8:22 PM, SKL said:

I corrected it - it wasn't SARS but H3N2 virus.  The teacher misspoke.  The deadliness in the US was comparable to Covid.

Not really. There were about 100,000 deaths in the US over the entire outbreak, which was at least 14 months. We are currently at 134,000 deaths for Covid in less than 6 months, with the majority by far in the last 4 months. 

On 7/9/2020 at 12:37 PM, kokotg said:

It's not about what we WANT.  

A million times this. We can all want schools to open. We can all know that students will suffer if they don't. But that doesn't remove the roadblocks to actually keeping schools open when there are outbreaks and not enough subs, and so on. 

On 7/9/2020 at 6:10 PM, Pen said:

I don’t see why, weather etc  permitting,  older kids could not have outdoors lessons including academics as much as possible.  I expect some would even  learn better that way. 

While I'm fully in favor of more outdoor time for all ages, the public high schools in my area have very little outdoor space, and I'd guess this holds true for many districts. I consider it a design flaw with detrimental effects at the best of times. 

On 7/9/2020 at 9:02 PM, PinkTulip said:

 So now I’m faced with deciding what to do with my 17 yo son who will be a senior: risk him getting infected and bringing it home to my husband who is immunocompromised, or further messing with his already fragile mental state by making him do worksheets all day while I’m at work. Any suggestions? 

Does he like school in general, and his school in particular? Or does he just need to be seeing people and not doing worksheets? If the latter, I'd consider homeschooling or dual enrollment or a mix (neither of which remove all risk, of course, but they lower it and I'm assuming he'll be out of the house at times no matter what).If he's torn or uncertain, is there an incentive that would make these options more attractive? More time to spend on a hobby, the ability to pick more of his classes? 

If it's important to him that he return to, and graduate from, his school, I would strongly consider that. With as many precautions as possible, of course. Is there a bathroom that can be designated for dh only? Add some air filters. Open doors and windows on a scheduled basis to improve air flow. Cleaning protocol for high touch surfaces. You and ds shower and change when you get home. 

It's a tough decision. 

On 7/9/2020 at 9:20 PM, Matryoshka said:

Wow, Richmond VA isn't pulling any punches...

 

Damn, shots fired!

(general response, not to you) There's no better time to bring up hard truths than when lots of additional people are feeling the holes in the security net for themselves.  Obviously they won't get the big changes anytime soon, but seeds might be planted. People might be moved to murmur, wow, that is kind of crazy. 

7 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Next they're going to ask you to find and bring a unicorn.

A unicorn's tears will cure Covid, but big pharma doesn't want you to know that. 

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11 hours ago, myblessings4 said:

Our district just released the results of the survey they put out for parents, teachers, and secondary students.  I don't see how they will even use it to more easily make decisions.  Results were so mixed.

I haven’t seen any results of our survey yet, but I’m certain they will be quite mixed, too. I would like to hope (and I did put it in my survey) that they will use that information to offer/encourage full distance learning for anyone who can and wants to, thereby reducing risks to those who can’t manage that option. It is nonsensical to require in-person attendance (however many days a week) for those with the means to stay home.

I know for a fact that we have many families making the jump to cyber schools and traditional homeschooling, but I don’t doubt that there are additional families that want to keep their kids home but aren’t fully aware of or comfortable with those existing options for a variety of reasons.

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7 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

There is no pretty answer.
I still firmly believe that the best available option is prioritizing. PA was doing terrific (relatively speaking) with containment right up until we used the word “green” and everyone decided that meant they were safe to go back to parties and luxuries.  That’s not to say that all industries were solid, but that we learned we could have more open than we did at the initial shutdown and still be okay.  When the priority stopped being health and shifted to carrying on as usual, spreading increased.

It does’t have to be all or nothing, but so many people want to make it just that.

I never know what to say to people who think along the lines of that last statement.  It hurts my heart to know anyone is feeling that way.  I’m not particularly thrilled with the things I’ve had to adapt to, particularly not the deaths of people I love or being unable to see my own child for who knows how much longer, but I am grateful to still have all of the ingredients that make life meaningful. I’ve never been accused of being an optimist, but I do believe that history tells us we’ll be okay, overall.

Well, until climate change really gets us.  (<—— Great example of why I’m not considered an optimist.)

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Wow, this was hard to read. But it is also true, to a large extent. And I know that there are parents who can't keep their kids home and still provide a roof over their heads or food to eat. Which is a whole other freaking vent. But if everyone who CAN keep kids home, does, at least in hard hit areas like mine were cases are out of control, it would make class sizes smaller, and make it safer for the kids and teachers that DO need to be there. Especially the special needs classes, etc. (which I agree, are their own category and a different consideration)

I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”

100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:

“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”
“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”
“Oh hell no.”
“No absolutely not.”
“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”
“Something of that size would be virtual.”

We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. 

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12 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Okay, I think this is the link?  It was posted on the REA FB page. 

I looked on their page and didn't see it. Thanks for finding it for me!

 

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My wife is a teacher at a k-8 school. She does all the dyslexia remediation for her school. I am terrified of her going back. Our youngest has attended the same school with her since kinder. He is not going back. I did sign him up for distance learning because I know how funding works but he will be homeschooled and use the distance as review. In Texas, dyslexia instruction must be conducted in a live setting (in person or online). There is no recording her lessons because that both does not follow the Texas Dyslexia Handbook nor does the curriculum she use allow for it. With Texas schools required to offer both in-person and online I have a feeling her work load will double. I don't know when she will have time to teach both in-person and online and her classroom is maybe 6' x 10'. Meaning you can't socially distance more than 2 people in that room. We have 3 high-risk daughters, a brand new grand-baby, and 2 sons. None of our school-aged kids will be in classrooms this year. When teachers do not trust that their own schools are doing enough to protect students and choose to keep their children home, the greater public should take note. 

The best solution I have come up with is to keep the middle and high schoolers in distance learning. Hire a lot more elementary teachers and spread elementary age children out across all buildings in a district allowing for social distancing and smaller class sizes. Of course, the government would actually have to fund hiring more elementary teachers because districts don't have that kind of money.

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57 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Wow, this was hard to read. But it is also true, to a large extent. And I know that there are parents who can't keep their kids home and still provide a roof over their heads or food to eat. Which is a whole other freaking vent. But if everyone who CAN keep kids home, does, at least in hard hit areas like mine were cases are out of control, it would make class sizes smaller, and make it safer for the kids and teachers that DO need to be there. Especially the special needs classes, etc. (which I agree, are their own category and a different consideration)

I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”

100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:

“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”
“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”
“Oh hell no.”
“No absolutely not.”
“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”
“Something of that size would be virtual.”

We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. 

 

I agree that making it possible for kids who can school from home to do so would help increase physical distance at schools.

I would also like to see hybrid options for kids who need some in person support and motivation (or even social connection) to be able to go 1 or 2 days or half days per week which could  also reduce load compared to an all or nothing approach.   

 

Some of what’s being contemplated for children comes from what I think is a false narrative that children don’t spread the illness. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Pen said:

Some of what’s being contemplated for children comes from what I think is a false narrative that children don’t spread the illness. 

It's certainly an unproven narrative. I would be delighted if it's proven that children don't spread it, but I'm a little alarmed at how many people seem willing to bet teachers' lives on it. 

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