Jump to content

Menu

Recommended Posts

Austria has had their schools open for about two months now.  I talked to DD who is there today and they have not seen cases being reported associated with schools reopening.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 2.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Our society needs kids to be in school.  Our economy sure as hell needs kids in school full time.  Many kids need to be in school, for a wide variety of reasons.   But kids in school is only safe

From my perspective, because of what they've done, crap upon crap happens. Obviously the pandemic itself was out of everyone's control.  But as we have seen around the world, a population's behav

One of our good friends is a family practice physician and they were getting swamped by requests by adults when the mask requirements came out. They got together and unanimously decided their response

Posted Images

Just now, Bootsie said:

Austria has had their schools open for about two months now.  I talked to DD who is there today and they have not seen cases being reported associated with schools reopening.

All schools? Any precautions being taken? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, square_25 said:

All schools? Any precautions being taken? 

Music and PE instruction have been curtailed; Masks are not worn; children generally are not eating at school, but they didn't before COVID-19, so that isn't for precautionary reasons.  

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

All schools? Any precautions being taken? 

Elementary and secondary schools reopened.  Universities had announced they would gone online for the rest of the semester, but are now allowed to meet in-person, so I am not sure what percent has gone back to in-person meetings at the university level.  DD is having in-person final exams and some other class activities.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Elementary and secondary schools reopened.  Universities had announced they would gone online for the rest of the semester, but are now allowed to meet in-person, so I am not sure what percent has gone back to in-person meetings at the university level.  DD is having in-person final exams and some other class activities.

Interesting. They really don't have very many cases per day right now... any idea where those are? Is contact tracing currently robust? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Music and PE instruction have been curtailed; Masks are not worn; children generally are not eating at school, but they didn't before COVID-19, so that isn't for precautionary reasons.  

Looking it up, they were masked for a few weeks, right? And the term is now over? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Wow, Richmond VA isn't pulling any punches...

Image may contain: text

Yeah, not surprising from a union. They're not going to get long term parental leave in the next month and increased funding when states already don't have money. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Looking it up, they were masked for a few weeks, right? And the term is now over? 

Masks were not required in schools.  Face coverings were required in indoor public places, such as grocery stores, and on public transportation, but were not required in any outdoor areas.  DD said that face coverings are no longer required in indoor places and only on some public transportation now (she was on the train today and face coverings were required, but not on the bus).  The primary and secondary schools that she is familiar with finish the term tomorrow.  The university term goes through the end of July--with some classes still extending past that date.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Opening up schools in say, Austria, with less than a hundred cases per day in the whole country, is very different than in a place like central florida, where we have 4 times that number just in my county. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

The questions they are asking are indeed, the right questions. They are not wrong. 

And yet, when you ask irrelevant and vast societal questions when people have immediate problems in the given system, you lose them because you’re impractical. Of course it would be great to get rid of economic burdens and barriers to single income households (a which arguably is doable for more families than try it, it’s not like we are flush with eight people on a single income and we are hardly alone on this board). And of course we want better family leave policies and flexibility. As to the poor resources availability, the admin needs to do a whole lot of soul searching before I’ll give a rip - our districts make PLENTY of tax income, but very little seems to make it to the actual teachers and student materials because of bloated overhead and pension obligations. Yeah, please restructure that. The whole damn union.

But those things are both true and totally irrelevant to dealing with the actual situation actually happening at this exact moment. Great long term focus for their local politics and association and parent counseling. Absolutely. But they pretty much lost every pragmatist and realist that letter went to, and that’s a big chunk of the population.

Edited by Arctic Mama
  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Yeah, not surprising from a union. They're not going to get long term parental leave in the next month and increased funding when states already don't have money. 

Not a union.  Teacher's unions are illegal in Virginia.  Association.  

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Interesting. They really don't have very many cases per day right now... any idea where those are? Is contact tracing currently robust? 

My understanding is that many of the cases are now in Vienna; earlier in the outbreak the cases were more heavily concentrated in other areas of the country.  They have managed to keep numbers low.  I do not know how robust the contact tracing is.  Testing seems to be widespread, however, if there are any symptoms.  DD had a fever over the weekend (no known exposure and no other symptoms)- -a ambulance was sent to the house to test her--the test came back negative.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Opening up schools in say, Austria, with less than a hundred cases per day in the whole country, is very different than in a place like central florida, where we have 4 times that number just in my county. 


THIS. We could open like that too if we were led into battle four months ago by responsible adults. Alas, that ship has sailed. We have uncontrolled community spread in wide swaths of the country.

Edited by Sneezyone
  • Like 6
  • Thanks 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

And yet, when you ask irrelevant and vast societal questions when people have immediate problems in the given system, you lose them because you’re impractical. Of course it would be great to get rid of economic burdens and barriers to single income households (a which arguably is doable for more families than try it, it’s not like we are flush with eight people on a single income and we are hardly alone on this board). And of course we want better family leave policies and flexibility. As to the poor resources availability, the admin needs to do a whole lot of soul searching before I’ll give a rip - our districts make PLENTY of tax income, but very little seems to make it to the actual teachers and student materials because of bloated overhead and pension obligations. Yeah, please restructure that. The whole damn union.

But those things are both true and totally irrelevant to dealing with the actual situation actually happening at this exact moment. Great long term focus for their local politics and union and parent counseling. Absolutely. But they pretty much lost every pragmatist and realist that letter went to, and that’s a big chunk of the population.

But those conversations do need to happen. If not now, then when?

And again they are the ones being asked to risk their very lives, which is not what they signed up for. And a lot of the reasons have nothing to do with education, which is what they were supposedly hired for. 

Will it matter? Maybe not, but again, they are not wrong. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I read today that the FL governor can’t actually order all schools to open in person. Something about the FL Constitution and how it’s actually up to the individual school boards? Hopefully that’s true and they choose to make better decisions than the Gov.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MissLemon said:

One of my college profs regularly held classes outdoors when the weather was nice.  

I think open-air schools for children who had TB were a thing at the turn of the 20th century. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

California govt is intending to issue IOUs to school districts. My school district is mainly funded by property taxes and home prices are still sky high here.

 

So far, our districts aren't cutting either, but they are putting on some hiring freezes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

My understanding is that many of the cases are now in Vienna; earlier in the outbreak the cases were more heavily concentrated in other areas of the country.  They have managed to keep numbers low.  I do not know how robust the contact tracing is.  Testing seems to be widespread, however, if there are any symptoms.  DD had a fever over the weekend (no known exposure and no other symptoms)- -a ambulance was sent to the house to test her--the test came back negative.  

Oh, testing people at home is SUCH a good idea. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, square_25 said:

This suggests they had masks for some time: http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/05/c_139030359.htm

I don't know about the area around Vienna, but the families I know in both Tirol and Voralberg in western Austria, had children who went back to school on May 15 and the children were not wearing masks in the classrooms.  For the first few days the children would play on the playground, then line up to go in the building and put on masks, and then once they were in their classroom could take off their masks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Music and PE instruction have been curtailed; Masks are not worn; children generally are not eating at school, but they didn't before COVID-19, so that isn't for precautionary reasons.  

Do they typically have a break period at school or is the culture to go home for that time?  Or how do they manage not eating? Because I suspect that not having a break where classes share equipment would help.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Joker said:

I read today that the FL governor can’t actually order all schools to open in person. Something about the FL Constitution and how it’s actually up to the individual school boards? Hopefully that’s true and they choose to make better decisions than the Gov.

There's a lot of that going around--leaders on the state and national levels trying to order (or threaten) things they can't legally do. It needs to stop. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, square_25 said:

You’d have to imagine the very large range of circumstances people might have, and how a lost year could affect all of them, and then you’ll see that for some fraction of them, it’d be a real problem. 

As for why it matters for this year, it’s because it’s how society is set up... it’s fairly arbitrary, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter for people.

For a lot of marginal students, I can see them just not going back to school....ever.  those student that are 15/16 and won't finish.   For other students it might become an economic thing where they need to be working to support the family and therefore just don't go back to school.

Also, depending on the level of the student, think of how much review is needed when they are off for 10 weeks in the summer.....now make that basically 1 1/2 years worth of being off.   Yes, there is remote learning, but many students get very little out of it, don't have the family support at home, have learning challenges, etc.

Our WTM families while diverse, are not a great cross section of students and situations on the US.  As a group, the WTM has more 2 parent homes, more stay at home parents, more higher educated parents, more financially stable situations, etc.

  • Like 12
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the true cost of this pandemic, especially when it comes to schooling, will be borne by those least able to bear those costs. Which is why our failure to contain it is a tragedy on many different levels.

The infectious disease specialist in my extended family circle (the one who, in mid-May when everyone was scoffing & rejoicing, was warning about a brutal fall) is saying we're in for a 2-year massive battle now. A lot of people in this country are going to suffer from the fall-out & pretending that if we don't look, it will all go away isn't going to work.

I don't get using Austria as being relevant to the situation in the US at all. Their curves have been flat (& under 100 for daily new cases) since mid-April.  They've averaged a few deaths a day since early May.  It's the difference between having the virus mapped & under control & not.

Edited by Happy2BaMom
  • Like 10
  • Thanks 2
  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Joker said:

I read today that the FL governor can’t actually order all schools to open in person. Something about the FL Constitution and how it’s actually up to the individual school boards? Hopefully that’s true and they choose to make better decisions than the Gov.

Yeah, no one seems to know. It was the department of education that made the "emergency order". 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do understand that children from less stable, impoverished homes will be most at risk if they lose a year of educatio, but they are also in many ways the same families most at risk of this virus. 

There just are no good answers, now that we are at the point of uncontrolled spread in so many areas. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I do understand that children from less stable, impoverished homes will be most at risk if they lose a year of educatio, but they are also in many ways the same families most at risk of this virus. 

There just are no good answers, now that we are at the point of uncontrolled spread in so many areas. 

As a counterpoint, I would guess that in some places, those communities are pretty close to herd immunity :-/.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

As a counterpoint, I would guess that in some places, those communities are pretty close to herd immunity :-/.

Where? Not here. And lets hope we never get to that point, given how many would die. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Where? Not here. And lets hope we never get to that point, given how many would die. 

No, but I’d guess in NY and a few other parts on the Northeast.

It’s not a good thing or anything. It’s a ridiculous tragedy :-/. However, it might be true.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, square_25 said:

No, but I’d guess in NY and a few other parts on the Northeast.

It’s not a good thing or anything. It’s a ridiculous tragedy :-/. However, it might be true.

Right, but they are on the downswing. (and that presumes there is any immunity anyway)

I'm talking about the rest of us, and how not having schools is bad, but having them is bad, and it all sucks. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate how the U.S. is operating.  It is so frustrating.

The initial shutdown should have been the time to prepare for a new reality and instead so many people just expected to burst out of lockdown into the same old world.

This is all so short sighted.

I'm seeing "schools must open" without any real safety in mind.  Teachers must be protected or we'll be in a worse situation later when schools close down because there aren't enough teachers left to teach because they're ill or burnt out.

The U.S. can not expect to "positive think" our way out of this.  Our lack of real leadership has caused real devastation and our country needs to deal truthfully with the fact that we are in a far worse situation than other countries.  

  • Like 13
  • Thanks 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, happi duck said:

The initial shutdown should have been the time to prepare for a new reality and instead so many people just expected to burst out of lockdown into the same old world.

Right. There was LITERALLY NO OTHER POINT to shutdowns in most areas. There was no curve to flatten yet. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Right, but they are on the downswing. (and that presumes there is any immunity anyway)

I'm talking about the rest of us, and how not having schools is bad, but having them is bad, and it all sucks. 

It does all suck.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So our county schools all just released a joint statement for their plan.   They basically repeated everything our governor state was necessary with the caveat of "where possible" after every line.  And really, the majority of their statements just say that things will be done as they always were.  For example under transportation it states "The District will allow two students per seat and in some instances three students if the children are younger and smaller."  

Now, our county has a low population and so we have a low number of cases.  We also have very few (almost none really) people wearing masks in public.  I have stopped grocery shopping in the store again because I have had so many people who are complete strangers yell out how stupid I am for wearing a mask.  So much for small-town friendliness.  

We were all set to send our youngest to first grade this year and now I'm not sure what we're doing.  She's beyond excited at the idea of going to school.  DH doesn't seem worried at all.  I'm trying to determine if I'm being cautious or paranoid.  

 

  • Sad 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

Yeah, not surprising from a union. They're not going to get long term parental leave in the next month and increased funding when states already don't have money. 

True. And if we kill their kids they won’t have to worry about parental leave. Win-win.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

Well, the true cost of this pandemic, especially when it comes to schooling, will be borne by those least able to bear those costs. Which is why our failure to contain it is a tragedy on many different levels.

This is so true, and feels impossible to resolve at this moment. The best solution seems to be to pull out all the stops to drop disease levels dramatically before school starts. It also appears the kids who suffer most from being out of school are less likely to have parents who want them to return to school right now (due to their higher risk of disease). People like to say, “What about the poor and disadvantaged? What about minority children? They need to be in school.” But I’ve seen many parent surveys showing these parents aren’t ready to risk sending their kids back. For example: https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200627/black-hispanic-parents-much-more-reluctant-to-send-kids-back-to-school-district-survey-shows

White parents are the ones most likely to be eager to get their kids back in school. Surprisingly, I also saw this survey indicating minority parents were more satisfied with remote learning: https://www.redefinedonline.org/2020/07/survey-what-american-families-experienced-when-covid-19-closed-schools/ I imagine that must vary widely depending on school district and how much support schools have to ensure everyone had access. 
 

I lost my quote, but I also want to address something said a couple times by I think @kdsuomi above, that people without special needs kids are the ones demanding 100% online. I have not seen that true at all. I’ve seen everyone acknowledge that special needs students among the students who need most to be prioritized to get back in person. I have a kid with a serious speech disorder. We have continued therapy online, and it’s just not been effective for her. Online speech works just fine for some, but my kid does not cooperate. She has lost ground at a time I otherwise would have expected her to make gains. I can’t just make in person therapy safe because I want it to be, though. We were getting close to the point that I might have felt safe to start going back in person, but then our rates started going up again. Her therapist changed her mind about going in in person because of that as well. This is why we have to do what it takes to get our rates back down if we want it to work for kids to be able to be physically in class. We can’t have everything open and have it work. I know my kid’s needs aren’t as severe as many other special needs kids, but I give that as an example just to show it’s not that people who think the plan to send everyone back to school in person isn’t going to work just aren’t affected by this issue and don’t care. 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, square_25 said:

As a counterpoint, I would guess that in some places, those communities are pretty close to herd immunity :-/.

Not that I am aware of.

It is still early in pandemic.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Pen said:

Not that I am aware of.

It is still early in pandemic.  

I thought it’s been in the news that some areas around NYC have tested close to 70% for antibodies? If true, I wouldn’t be surprised by a few other areas having the same. 
 

Did a quick Google and found this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.amp.html

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Joker said:

I thought it’s been in the news that some areas around NYC have tested close to 70% for antibodies? If true, I wouldn’t be surprised by a few other areas having the same. 
 

Did a quick Google and found this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.amp.html

Oh, but the price NYC paid for that level of antibodies...😢

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Joker said:

I thought it’s been in the news that some areas around NYC have tested close to 70% for antibodies? If true, I wouldn’t be surprised by a few other areas having the same. 
 

Did a quick Google and found this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.amp.html

 

I hope that is a real level of immunity — not just a level in people who thought they had the illness and are trying to confirm that.  A random study of the population in those areas would be helpful.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Oh, but the price NYC paid for that level of antibodies...😢

Oh, I know it’s awful. I just wanted to point out that it has been in the news recently.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now, our schools are going to open full time and masks are not required.  When my kids did come home from school to complete work online, it was horrible.  I knew it was only for three months, so I put up with it.  They were going to school 60% of the time.  My family members with kids in other states had equal to worse than that.  I let my daughter fail her online math since I was having to watch the lesson and teach it to her in person.  I thought if I was going to have to do that anyway, I may as well break out the math books I still had from my homeschooling days and just teach her those.  It worked better.  

The problem with school not returning and many parents now working full time again is what to do with children during the day?  There is no social structure like summer camps/ daycares/YMCA programs to take care of these kids during the day during the school year.  These younger kids are going to have to go somewhere.  And how is that much different than being in school?  They're still most likely going to be around larger groups of children.  I also know many parents who were working at home had to somehow teach all their children at night after they were done with their work day.  I know of one family with four children and two computers (one of which was used to work from home).  All of them were younger kids and all needed help completing hours of online lessons and youtube videos.  Or, the other scenario was that the older child in junior high or high school was having to help younger siblings with work ignoring their own work while their parents worked full time.   Those kids got a worse educational experience than my kids of whom I was able to help during the day.  And all of this is assuming families had access to computers/tablets for learning.  They allowed devices to be checked out in my district.  They ran out an hour after opening the sign up.  My sister's school district in Tennessee didn't even expect learning to take place at home because it was assumed that not all kids had access to the technology needed and they didn't want to have educational inequality.  So, to avoid educational inequality, no kids were taught.

Overall, I don't think the majority of schools and our societal systems are not ready for kids to learn from home.  It's basically a wasted year educationally for the majority of students.  We have serious concerns over our school even of whom we felt did a good job that probably should have expected more than three days of work per week.  Health wise, it's very hard for me to homeschool at this point.  But the flip side of that is knowing that if schools shut down again, even my minimal effort will have been better than what they can offer online.  

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Thanks that looks most up to date—

75 school based employees

31 teachers

Considering how many people in NYC had it though, and how high a % of adults work in schools, I don't think this proves anything about how safe it is to teach in a school wearing a mask (with young kids unmasked).

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, happi duck said:

I hate how the U.S. is operating.  It is so frustrating.

The initial shutdown should have been the time to prepare for a new reality and instead so many people just expected to burst out of lockdown into the same old world.

This is all so short sighted.

I'm seeing "schools must open" without any real safety in mind.  Teachers must be protected or we'll be in a worse situation later when schools close down because there aren't enough teachers left to teach because they're ill or burnt out.

The U.S. can not expect to "positive think" our way out of this.  Our lack of real leadership has caused real devastation and our country needs to deal truthfully with the fact that we are in a far worse situation than other countries.  

The schools did not have the luxury of shutting down and focusing on preparing for the future; they still had to do their job, in much different circumstances, which was more work than before AND on top of that try to plan for a future in which information for what they should do evolving and changing frequently.  

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, planning is really not a thing in 2020.  The people who are supposed to know stuff get it wrong and change their story day after day.  There really is no point complaining about a lack of planning.  I really believe they are working harder than ever on trying to plan.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Joker said:

I thought it’s been in the news that some areas around NYC have tested close to 70% for antibodies? If true, I wouldn’t be surprised by a few other areas having the same. 
 

Did a quick Google and found this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.amp.html

Correct. And it looks like antibodies are an underestimate, too, since some people develop T-cell responses but no antibody response. So it's entirely possible NYC is half-way or more to herd immunity, with some pockets much closer than others. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...