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I read today that the FL governor can’t actually order all schools to open in person. Something about the FL Constitution and how it’s actually up to the individual school boards? Hopefully that’s true and they choose to make better decisions than the Gov.

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Our society needs kids to be in school.  Our economy sure as hell needs kids in school full time.  Many kids need to be in school, for a wide variety of reasons.   But kids in school is only safe

One of our good friends is a family practice physician and they were getting swamped by requests by adults when the mask requirements came out. They got together and unanimously decided their response

From my perspective, because of what they've done, crap upon crap happens. Obviously the pandemic itself was out of everyone's control.  But as we have seen around the world, a population's behav

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4 hours ago, MissLemon said:

One of my college profs regularly held classes outdoors when the weather was nice.  

I think open-air schools for children who had TB were a thing at the turn of the 20th century. 

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6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

California govt is intending to issue IOUs to school districts. My school district is mainly funded by property taxes and home prices are still sky high here.

 

So far, our districts aren't cutting either, but they are putting on some hiring freezes.

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55 minutes ago, square_25 said:

This suggests they had masks for some time: http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-05/05/c_139030359.htm

I don't know about the area around Vienna, but the families I know in both Tirol and Voralberg in western Austria, had children who went back to school on May 15 and the children were not wearing masks in the classrooms.  For the first few days the children would play on the playground, then line up to go in the building and put on masks, and then once they were in their classroom could take off their masks.

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5 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Music and PE instruction have been curtailed; Masks are not worn; children generally are not eating at school, but they didn't before COVID-19, so that isn't for precautionary reasons.  

Do they typically have a break period at school or is the culture to go home for that time?  Or how do they manage not eating? Because I suspect that not having a break where classes share equipment would help.

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7 hours ago, Joker said:

I read today that the FL governor can’t actually order all schools to open in person. Something about the FL Constitution and how it’s actually up to the individual school boards? Hopefully that’s true and they choose to make better decisions than the Gov.

There's a lot of that going around--leaders on the state and national levels trying to order (or threaten) things they can't legally do. It needs to stop. 

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22 hours ago, square_25 said:

You’d have to imagine the very large range of circumstances people might have, and how a lost year could affect all of them, and then you’ll see that for some fraction of them, it’d be a real problem. 

As for why it matters for this year, it’s because it’s how society is set up... it’s fairly arbitrary, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter for people.

For a lot of marginal students, I can see them just not going back to school....ever.  those student that are 15/16 and won't finish.   For other students it might become an economic thing where they need to be working to support the family and therefore just don't go back to school.

Also, depending on the level of the student, think of how much review is needed when they are off for 10 weeks in the summer.....now make that basically 1 1/2 years worth of being off.   Yes, there is remote learning, but many students get very little out of it, don't have the family support at home, have learning challenges, etc.

Our WTM families while diverse, are not a great cross section of students and situations on the US.  As a group, the WTM has more 2 parent homes, more stay at home parents, more higher educated parents, more financially stable situations, etc.

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Well, the true cost of this pandemic, especially when it comes to schooling, will be borne by those least able to bear those costs. Which is why our failure to contain it is a tragedy on many different levels.

The infectious disease specialist in my extended family circle (the one who, in mid-May when everyone was scoffing & rejoicing, was warning about a brutal fall) is saying we're in for a 2-year massive battle now. A lot of people in this country are going to suffer from the fall-out & pretending that if we don't look, it will all go away isn't going to work.

I don't get using Austria as being relevant to the situation in the US at all. Their curves have been flat (& under 100 for daily new cases) since mid-April.  They've averaged a few deaths a day since early May.  It's the difference between having the virus mapped & under control & not.

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9 hours ago, Joker said:

I read today that the FL governor can’t actually order all schools to open in person. Something about the FL Constitution and how it’s actually up to the individual school boards? Hopefully that’s true and they choose to make better decisions than the Gov.

Yeah, no one seems to know. It was the department of education that made the "emergency order". 

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I do understand that children from less stable, impoverished homes will be most at risk if they lose a year of educatio, but they are also in many ways the same families most at risk of this virus. 

There just are no good answers, now that we are at the point of uncontrolled spread in so many areas. 

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

As a counterpoint, I would guess that in some places, those communities are pretty close to herd immunity :-/.

Where? Not here. And lets hope we never get to that point, given how many would die. 

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Just now, square_25 said:

No, but I’d guess in NY and a few other parts on the Northeast.

It’s not a good thing or anything. It’s a ridiculous tragedy :-/. However, it might be true.

Right, but they are on the downswing. (and that presumes there is any immunity anyway)

I'm talking about the rest of us, and how not having schools is bad, but having them is bad, and it all sucks. 

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I hate how the U.S. is operating.  It is so frustrating.

The initial shutdown should have been the time to prepare for a new reality and instead so many people just expected to burst out of lockdown into the same old world.

This is all so short sighted.

I'm seeing "schools must open" without any real safety in mind.  Teachers must be protected or we'll be in a worse situation later when schools close down because there aren't enough teachers left to teach because they're ill or burnt out.

The U.S. can not expect to "positive think" our way out of this.  Our lack of real leadership has caused real devastation and our country needs to deal truthfully with the fact that we are in a far worse situation than other countries.  

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So our county schools all just released a joint statement for their plan.   They basically repeated everything our governor state was necessary with the caveat of "where possible" after every line.  And really, the majority of their statements just say that things will be done as they always were.  For example under transportation it states "The District will allow two students per seat and in some instances three students if the children are younger and smaller."  

Now, our county has a low population and so we have a low number of cases.  We also have very few (almost none really) people wearing masks in public.  I have stopped grocery shopping in the store again because I have had so many people who are complete strangers yell out how stupid I am for wearing a mask.  So much for small-town friendliness.  

We were all set to send our youngest to first grade this year and now I'm not sure what we're doing.  She's beyond excited at the idea of going to school.  DH doesn't seem worried at all.  I'm trying to determine if I'm being cautious or paranoid.  

 

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13 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

Yeah, not surprising from a union. They're not going to get long term parental leave in the next month and increased funding when states already don't have money. 

True. And if we kill their kids they won’t have to worry about parental leave. Win-win.

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3 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

Well, the true cost of this pandemic, especially when it comes to schooling, will be borne by those least able to bear those costs. Which is why our failure to contain it is a tragedy on many different levels.

This is so true, and feels impossible to resolve at this moment. The best solution seems to be to pull out all the stops to drop disease levels dramatically before school starts. It also appears the kids who suffer most from being out of school are less likely to have parents who want them to return to school right now (due to their higher risk of disease). People like to say, “What about the poor and disadvantaged? What about minority children? They need to be in school.” But I’ve seen many parent surveys showing these parents aren’t ready to risk sending their kids back. For example: https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200627/black-hispanic-parents-much-more-reluctant-to-send-kids-back-to-school-district-survey-shows

White parents are the ones most likely to be eager to get their kids back in school. Surprisingly, I also saw this survey indicating minority parents were more satisfied with remote learning: https://www.redefinedonline.org/2020/07/survey-what-american-families-experienced-when-covid-19-closed-schools/ I imagine that must vary widely depending on school district and how much support schools have to ensure everyone had access. 
 

I lost my quote, but I also want to address something said a couple times by I think @kdsuomi above, that people without special needs kids are the ones demanding 100% online. I have not seen that true at all. I’ve seen everyone acknowledge that special needs students among the students who need most to be prioritized to get back in person. I have a kid with a serious speech disorder. We have continued therapy online, and it’s just not been effective for her. Online speech works just fine for some, but my kid does not cooperate. She has lost ground at a time I otherwise would have expected her to make gains. I can’t just make in person therapy safe because I want it to be, though. We were getting close to the point that I might have felt safe to start going back in person, but then our rates started going up again. Her therapist changed her mind about going in in person because of that as well. This is why we have to do what it takes to get our rates back down if we want it to work for kids to be able to be physically in class. We can’t have everything open and have it work. I know my kid’s needs aren’t as severe as many other special needs kids, but I give that as an example just to show it’s not that people who think the plan to send everyone back to school in person isn’t going to work just aren’t affected by this issue and don’t care. 

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3 hours ago, square_25 said:

As a counterpoint, I would guess that in some places, those communities are pretty close to herd immunity :-/.

Not that I am aware of.

It is still early in pandemic.  

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4 minutes ago, Pen said:

Not that I am aware of.

It is still early in pandemic.  

I thought it’s been in the news that some areas around NYC have tested close to 70% for antibodies? If true, I wouldn’t be surprised by a few other areas having the same. 
 

Did a quick Google and found this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.amp.html

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5 minutes ago, Joker said:

I thought it’s been in the news that some areas around NYC have tested close to 70% for antibodies? If true, I wouldn’t be surprised by a few other areas having the same. 
 

Did a quick Google and found this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.amp.html

Oh, but the price NYC paid for that level of antibodies...😢

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7 minutes ago, Joker said:

I thought it’s been in the news that some areas around NYC have tested close to 70% for antibodies? If true, I wouldn’t be surprised by a few other areas having the same. 
 

Did a quick Google and found this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.amp.html

 

I hope that is a real level of immunity — not just a level in people who thought they had the illness and are trying to confirm that.  A random study of the population in those areas would be helpful.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Oh, but the price NYC paid for that level of antibodies...😢

Oh, I know it’s awful. I just wanted to point out that it has been in the news recently.

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Right now, our schools are going to open full time and masks are not required.  When my kids did come home from school to complete work online, it was horrible.  I knew it was only for three months, so I put up with it.  They were going to school 60% of the time.  My family members with kids in other states had equal to worse than that.  I let my daughter fail her online math since I was having to watch the lesson and teach it to her in person.  I thought if I was going to have to do that anyway, I may as well break out the math books I still had from my homeschooling days and just teach her those.  It worked better.  

The problem with school not returning and many parents now working full time again is what to do with children during the day?  There is no social structure like summer camps/ daycares/YMCA programs to take care of these kids during the day during the school year.  These younger kids are going to have to go somewhere.  And how is that much different than being in school?  They're still most likely going to be around larger groups of children.  I also know many parents who were working at home had to somehow teach all their children at night after they were done with their work day.  I know of one family with four children and two computers (one of which was used to work from home).  All of them were younger kids and all needed help completing hours of online lessons and youtube videos.  Or, the other scenario was that the older child in junior high or high school was having to help younger siblings with work ignoring their own work while their parents worked full time.   Those kids got a worse educational experience than my kids of whom I was able to help during the day.  And all of this is assuming families had access to computers/tablets for learning.  They allowed devices to be checked out in my district.  They ran out an hour after opening the sign up.  My sister's school district in Tennessee didn't even expect learning to take place at home because it was assumed that not all kids had access to the technology needed and they didn't want to have educational inequality.  So, to avoid educational inequality, no kids were taught.

Overall, I don't think the majority of schools and our societal systems are not ready for kids to learn from home.  It's basically a wasted year educationally for the majority of students.  We have serious concerns over our school even of whom we felt did a good job that probably should have expected more than three days of work per week.  Health wise, it's very hard for me to homeschool at this point.  But the flip side of that is knowing that if schools shut down again, even my minimal effort will have been better than what they can offer online.  

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16 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Thanks that looks most up to date—

75 school based employees

31 teachers

Considering how many people in NYC had it though, and how high a % of adults work in schools, I don't think this proves anything about how safe it is to teach in a school wearing a mask (with young kids unmasked).

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1 hour ago, happi duck said:

I hate how the U.S. is operating.  It is so frustrating.

The initial shutdown should have been the time to prepare for a new reality and instead so many people just expected to burst out of lockdown into the same old world.

This is all so short sighted.

I'm seeing "schools must open" without any real safety in mind.  Teachers must be protected or we'll be in a worse situation later when schools close down because there aren't enough teachers left to teach because they're ill or burnt out.

The U.S. can not expect to "positive think" our way out of this.  Our lack of real leadership has caused real devastation and our country needs to deal truthfully with the fact that we are in a far worse situation than other countries.  

The schools did not have the luxury of shutting down and focusing on preparing for the future; they still had to do their job, in much different circumstances, which was more work than before AND on top of that try to plan for a future in which information for what they should do evolving and changing frequently.  

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Yeah, planning is really not a thing in 2020.  The people who are supposed to know stuff get it wrong and change their story day after day.  There really is no point complaining about a lack of planning.  I really believe they are working harder than ever on trying to plan.

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Correct. And it looks like antibodies are an underestimate, too, since some people develop T-cell responses but no antibody response. So it's entirely possible NYC is half-way or more to herd immunity, with some pockets much closer than others. 

Yeah, but man, IF that is correct, and IF T cell response lasts a decent amount of time, that still means they'd need to DOUBLE the catastrophe they already had, to get to full immunity. 

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3 hours ago, happi duck said:

I hate how the U.S. is operating.  It is so frustrating.

The initial shutdown should have been the time to prepare for a new reality and instead so many people just expected to burst out of lockdown into the same old world.

This is all so short sighted.

I'm seeing "schools must open" without any real safety in mind.  Teachers must be protected or we'll be in a worse situation later when schools close down because there aren't enough teachers left to teach because they're ill or burnt out.

The U.S. can not expect to "positive think" our way out of this.  Our lack of real leadership has caused real devastation and our country needs to deal truthfully with the fact that we are in a far worse situation than other countries.  

@Bootsie

I had no idea I needed to clarify:  I know that teachers were thrown into teaching remotely and were busy.

My first three paragraphs are general.

My next paragraph is specific to the "just open the schools, what's the big deal?" crowd.  Teachers must be protected.

My last paragraph is my thoughts on the attitude that crossing one's fingers is enough of a plan.

I care about education.  I care about teachers.  In no way could I imagine my post being taken as a criticism of teachers.  Hence my need to clarify.

Teachers must be protected in real ways or we are kicking the can down the road for a bigger disaster.

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2 minutes ago, myblessings4 said:

Our district just released the results of the survey they put out for parents, teachers, and secondary students.  I don't see how they will even use it to more easily make decisions.  Results were so mixed.

This is a public health crisis.  What people do or don't vote for on a survey is not going to affect how the virus acts.  

Meanwhile, our superintendent apparently made a unilateral announcement,  uninformed by either public health experts OR parents, or even the school committee.  So, I guess that's worse...  I don't think his suggestions at going to end up sticking, though. People are livid.

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2 hours ago, happi duck said:

@Bootsie

I had no idea I needed to clarify:  I know that teachers were thrown into teaching remotely and were busy.

My first three paragraphs are general.

My next paragraph is specific to the "just open the schools, what's the big deal?" crowd.  Teachers must be protected.

My last paragraph is my thoughts on the attitude that crossing one's fingers is enough of a plan.

I care about education.  I care about teachers.  In no way could I imagine my post being taken as a criticism of teachers.  Hence my need to clarify.

Teachers must be protected in real ways or we are kicking the can down the road for a bigger disaster.

I didn't take this as a criticism of teachers.  I am just thinking about what could have been done differently.  I am at a university--which has its own issues--but I know that the "planning" at all levels has been non-stop since early March.  It is hard for anyone to simultaneously manage a crisis and plan for a difficult situation.  Unfortunately, we didn't have the luxury of taking a few weeks off to plan and prepare what to do, which would have been a monumental task, even if that is the only thing that we had to do.  

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My dc’s University just announced a mandatory Covid test to return to campus. The problem is it must not be more than 10 days prior to returning and they have to have results before they return. Many places are having quite a wait for results now due to demand and numbers spiking. On campus residents also don’t yet even know their move in date as it will be spread over 10 days this year. The town where the uni is located is already booked three weeks out for tests. This is going to be an absolute mess!

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3 minutes ago, Joker said:

My dc’s University just announced a mandatory Covid test to return to campus. The problem is it must not be more than 10 days prior to returning and they have to have results before they return. Many places are having quite a wait for results now due to demand and numbers spiking. On campus residents also don’t yet even know their move in date as it will be spread over 10 days this year. The town where the uni is located is already booked three weeks out for tests. This is going to be an absolute mess!

Next they're going to ask you to find and bring a unicorn.

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oh look: the camp in North Georgia that had to shut down after a counselor tested positive now reports that 18% of campers and staff (all between 7 and 22--85 people total) have tested positive now. But I'm sure that opening schools with fewer precaution than the camp took (I know that all staff at least had a negative test before they started) will go FINE. Because kids can't spread the virus.

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

They need to ask kids to quarantine when they get there, then they need to test them themselves. Nothing else is going to work. 

Yeah, but how are they going to do that with roommates, shared toilets, and classes starting??  And what about food?  The kids don't move in 2 weeks before classes start...

Again so glad my kids are in apartments...

My youngest might actually still be with us; she's having a hard time lining up a roommate for even an apartment (harder because right now she'd like someone she knows already and trusts not use safe practices...).  She only had one real semester at school, and now this year might be home, and then she's graduating...  Ugh.  

My new mantra: it is what it is.

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Hire people to bring kids groceries?? I really don't know, but this is such a disaster in the making that it's worth all sorts of absurd precautions. 

Just as long as they don't hire 'security guards' like the ones in Australia... yikes.

Edited by Matryoshka
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18 minutes ago, square_25 said:

They need to ask kids to quarantine when they get there, then they need to test them themselves. Nothing else is going to work. 

But then, as soon as they get that negative result, what stops them from hitting up a party that night and catching it? I mean, you can't keep them in lock down the whole time they are there - they will leave campus to shop, eat, hit bars if open, go to parties off campus, etc. 

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Well, nothing, but in areas with low rates, the kids could cause a spike, and that's less likely if we don't let them out for a while... 

Oh, gotcha! It would stop them from bringing it with them to a low area. I wasn't htinking about that. 

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

What's going on there? 

A security guard was sleeping with the people he was supposed to be guarding and spread it ...a LOT. 

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Just now, square_25 said:

What's going on there? 

Apparently some of the guards they hired to make sure people were staying in quarantine (I think these are repatriated Australians?) decided to have s*x with some of the people in quarantine instead (!) got infected, brought the Corona home to their families, and voila - outbreak!

No, sadly, I am not making this up... https://www.the-sun.com/news/us-news/1081117/australia-melbourne-spike-sex-hotels/

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There’s also the whole idea that parents don’t have to be tested but we’ll be moving our kids in. Ds is an apartment but he is still required to get a test before classes start even though it’s looking like all of his will be online. It all seems so pointless! 

We’re seriously talking with dd about just staying home and trying dorms her sophomore year. 

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1 hour ago, square_25 said:

What's going on there? 

Supposedly security guards in quarantine had certain intimate relations with the people they were supposed to be quarantining.  Some accusations say in return for allowing them out for short periods of time.  
 

also at least one of the security guards attended a large family party (illegal) which initiated some of the spread linked to the school.

Edited by Ausmumof3
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12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Supposedly security guards in quarantine had certain intimate relations with the people they were supposed to be quarantining.  Some accusations say in return for allowing them out for short periods of time.  
 

also at least one of the security guards attended a large family party (illegal) which initiated some of the spread linked to the school.

And resulted in the whole greater Melbourne area in full lockdown, state borders closed. having to go through roadblocks to to leave the Melbourne area to return to rural areas. Thousands of businesses closed again, a whole city not leaving their houses, people getting sick and dying just because some guards had sex with the people they were meant to be guarding. 

What selfish jerks

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Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

And resulted in the whole greater Melbourne area in full lockdown, state borders closed. having to go through roadblocks to to leave the Melbourne area to return to rural areas. Thousands of businesses closed again, a whole city not leaving their houses, people getting sick and dying just because some guards had sex with the people they were meant to be guarding. 

What selfish jerks

Yep.  I think the people involved want to hope and pray there names don’t get publicised right now.  

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7 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Oh, but the price NYC paid for that level of antibodies...😢

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

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I live near a university. Next month, thousands of students from all over the country (and world) will move into my city. I don't have a lot of hope that they'll all stay in dorm rooms and apartments when they get here. We need the students because the university is the largest employer in the county, but I'm afraid it may not go well.

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I've been living like a turtle lately only concentrating on my immediate surroundings when it comes to looking at data, how to figure out what to do to live life as a family, concentrating on my kids. It helped keep me positive. DH and I spent more than a month researching curriculum before ultimately deciding to go with the Virtual academy offered by our PS because meant a bit of stability in a wildly changing world. We try to shield our kids from all that is happening is so many ways and I have so much angst about it each day. But my kid is safe, he will be at home studying. 

But today I lost it. I cried because of the international students and a certain tweet. It has been close to 20 years when I was one, but it felt so fresh and what is happening feels so personal because there are so few experiences I can identify with so much. It is just so unfair that they are being used as pawns. It changes how people look at the US, America's position in the world as a "leader of the free world" which most countries do not dispute. It changes how students look at this country as a bastion of education and aspirational around the world they are prepared to leave everything they know and jump on a plane often for the very first time in their lives,

I have seen this country through leaders of  both parties, both from near and afar. Nothing I have seen lately resembles any of that. It's like the very fabric of what this country stands for is unraveling or the one that is in my head I don't know but my heart is broken for how the pandemic is being used to exploit vulnerable people in every way. Students are some of the most vulnerable and using them as a  political tool is just not right.

Edited by Dreamergal
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26 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

Then what's the exit strategy? Seriously. I keep asking this in different places, and no one has an answer.  I'm not picking on you specifically, Seasider too. 

We can't open up, because the price of human life is too high.

We can't continue to lockdown, because the economy/mental health/special needs students/unemployment/etc.

There's no vaccine and no one knows if a vaccine would give any kind of long term immunity. 

So far, all I hear is all the ways all-of-the-things won't work. If nothing will work, (no immunity, no vaccine, no opening up, but we also can't lockdown), then there is literally no point in any of this. It all ends in the same place. 

I'm about 99% out of hope that we'll ever have any version of a life worth living. 

Do you really think there is only a 1% chance of a vaccine that works, or a treatment that makes this more manageable? Hopefully that's just exhaustion talking. We have a vaccine getting ready to go to phase 3 trials, we have new treatments coming out every week, etc. Science takes time, it just does. It's too early to give up. 

In the meantime, we try to do things that the economy requires in the safest way possible, to buy time for a vaccine or better treatments. Thinks like masking, staying home when you can, working from home if you can, schooling at home if you can, keeping distance from others, not congregating indoors, etc. 

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1 minute ago, Dreamergal said:

I've been living like a turtle lately only concentrating on my immediate surroundings when it comes to looking at data, how to figure out what to do to live life as a family, concentrating on my kids. It helped keep me positive. DH and I spent more than a month researching curriculum before ultimately deciding to go with the Virtual academy offered by our PS because meant a bit of stability in a wildly changing world. We try to shield our kids from all that is happening is so many ways and I have so much angst about it each day. But my kid is safe, he will be at home studying. 

But today I lost it. I cried because of the international students and a certain tweet. It has been close to 20 years when I was one, but it felt so fresh and what is happening feels so personal because there are so few experiences I can identify with so much. It is just so unfair that they are being used as pawns. It changes how people look at the US, America's position in the world as a "leader of the free world" which most countries do not dispute. It changes how students look at this country as a bastion of education and aspirational around the world they are prepared to leave everything they know and jump on a plane often for the very first time in their lives,

I have seen this country through leaders both parties, both from near and afar. Nothing I have seen lately resembles any of that. It's like the very fabric of what this country stands for is unraveling or the one that is in my head I don't know but my heart is broken for what the pandemic is being used to exploit vulnerable people in every way. Students are some of the most vulnerable and using them as a  political tool is just not right.

The thing with international students doesn't make any sense to me. They have no control over which of their classes will be online or in person. Our local university has already said they will do whatever they need to do to make sure none of our international students are in a position where they have to leave. I'm friends with people who work in the office with international students and I'm sure they can find a way to get them into at least one in person class.

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14 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I've been living like a turtle lately only concentrating on my immediate surroundings when it comes to looking at data, how to figure out what to do to live life as a family, concentrating on my kids. It helped keep me positive. DH and I spent more than a month researching curriculum before ultimately deciding to go with the Virtual academy offered by our PS because meant a bit of stability in a wildly changing world. We try to shield our kids from all that is happening is so many ways and I have so much angst about it each day. But my kid is safe, he will be at home studying. 

But today I lost it. I cried because of the international students and a certain tweet. It has been close to 20 years when I was one, but it felt so fresh and what is happening feels so personal because there are so few experiences I can identify with so much. It is just so unfair that they are being used as pawns. It changes how people look at the US, America's position in the world as a "leader of the free world" which most countries do not dispute. It changes how students look at this country as a bastion of education and aspirational around the world they are prepared to leave everything they know and jump on a plane often for the very first time in their lives,

I have seen this country through leaders of  both parties, both from near and afar. Nothing I have seen lately resembles any of that. It's like the very fabric of what this country stands for is unraveling or the one that is in my head I don't know but my heart is broken for how the pandemic is being used to exploit vulnerable people in every way. Students are some of the most vulnerable and using them as a  political tool is just not right.

I was so glad to see Susan wise Bauer come out with clear opposition to that.  Not having people come in made sense early in the epidemic but sending people home makes literally no sense right now!

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