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Our society needs kids to be in school.  Our economy sure as hell needs kids in school full time.  Many kids need to be in school, for a wide variety of reasons.   But kids in school is only safe

One of our good friends is a family practice physician and they were getting swamped by requests by adults when the mask requirements came out. They got together and unanimously decided their response

From my perspective, because of what they've done, crap upon crap happens. Obviously the pandemic itself was out of everyone's control.  But as we have seen around the world, a population's behav

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33 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

800 students and staff in Cherokee County, GA, currently in quarantine due to possible exposure:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-cases-lead-over-800-quarantine-georgia-school-district-where-n1236364

Georgia's daily death also reached a new high today: 122.

yep. that's the one I keep talking about. They just shut down one of the high schools until the end of the month. And another high school just reported 9 new cases and 201 quarantined students so far this week (in addition to 38 quarantined last week), so...

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12 minutes ago, kokotg said:

yep. that's the one I keep talking about. They just shut down one of the high schools until the end of the month. And another high school just reported 9 new cases and 201 quarantined students so far this week (in addition to 38 quarantined last week), so...

Meanwhile, in a parallel universe...

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp said in a press conference Monday that he is happy with school reopenings across the state. “I think quite honestly this week went real well other than a couple of viral photos, the governor said.

🙄

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From the mouths of babes....

 

“We’ll be home in a month,” said a skeptical Peter Klamka, an eighth-grader, in a county that logged 95% of new coronavirus cases reported early last week.

The 13-year-old will return to his private school in about three weeks.

“Some kids will be more responsible than others. I’m not looking forward to it but I’ve got to go school so I’d rather be there in person,” Peter said.

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I have no personal experience with these masks, but read that they might be one of many such now available as a relatively affordable option for tutors or teachers to have on hand as a better than nothing option for kids who don’t have masks of their own or forgot them, and can apparently be reused with instant pot type cleaning:

https://www.gloard.com/3-Ply-Non-Woven-10Pcs-Disposable-Face-Bandanas-with-Cute-Dinosaur-Pattern-Cloth-Covering-No-Washable-Breathable-and-Anti-Haze-Dust-for-Kids-p1128213.html

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4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Meanwhile, in a parallel universe...

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp said in a press conference Monday that he is happy with school reopenings across the state. “I think quite honestly this week went real well other than a couple of viral photos, the governor said.

🙄

Can't believe he called the photos viral.

There was viral something...

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Posted before, but I’m not sure if in this thread, and I think it is relevant to schools opening— tInterview with Michael Mina re home tests  

https://youtu.be/AZWuyvBAWWQ

 

John Campbell video today on children and infection is also possibly helpful 

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I finally sat through most of a recording of this week’s school board meeting and, while I agree with their outcome, the discussion was crazy. Admins asking if kids wearing masks for a full day was safe. (Not reasonable, but safe), stating there was medicine for COVID so it isn’t a big deal, asking to put full time in-person on the list of options (it never has been), people starting to get loud...  And that’s just the people in charge. Public comments were collected in advance.
THey did vote to start all virtual with only one opposed.

It does make sense since the latest questionnaire had only 33% of parents wanting any in-school time and there was no mention of how many already registered to homeschool or cyber charter school.
More than 97% reported internet access and our internet company is stepping up to provide where needed. More than 92% have sufficient devices, including from the school, so they do have that gap to fill.

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7 minutes ago, kokotg said:

From a parent in Paulding county, home of the viral hallway picture:

 

117768248_10157039102916642_6086004349531504101_n.jpg

My sil in law posted similar thoughts yesterday.  She also claimed that hundreds of thousands of people who have never been tested have received positive test results in the mail.  

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3 minutes ago, JanOH said:

My sil in law posted similar thoughts yesterday.  She also claimed that hundreds of thousands of people who have never been tested have received positive test results in the mail.  

I maintain that that is one of the dumbest conspiracy theories of all time (which is saying a lot)....if you wanted to drive up numbers, why on earth would you record positive results (and send them out to people!) for people who were never tested instead of just telling people they were positive when they were really negative?! 

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9 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I maintain that that is one of the dumbest conspiracy theories of all time (which is saying a lot)....if you wanted to drive up numbers, why on earth would you record positive results (and send them out to people!) for people who were never tested instead of just telling people they were positive when they were really negative?! 

 

This actually happened. I don't know how many were affected, but there was a testing facility in FL that recorded a number for each person and if the person jumped out of line, they didn't check to make sure the person they were tested correlated with the test number. So people who were not tested were told they had a result, and then every subsequent person in line was told the wrong result.  It was a horrible, preventable mess.  I don't know if it affected thousands though, and certainly that is not a good enough reason to not be tested. 

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3 minutes ago, cintinative said:

 

This actually happened. I don't know how many were affected, but there was a testing facility in FL that recorded a number for each person and if the person jumped out of line, they didn't check to make sure the person they were tested correlated with the test number. So people who were not tested were told they had a result, and then every subsequent person in line was told the wrong result.  It was a horrible, preventable mess.  I don't know if it affected thousands though, and certainly that is not a good enough reason to not be tested. 

If that happened it's incompetence and not malevolence, though (and it wouldn't mean more positive results, right--like the numbers are correct, just the individual people were told the wrong thing?)--the conspiracy theory is that people are deliberately making up positives for people who never got tested to make it look like there are more cases than there are. I'm unclear on how they're supposed to be also increasing hospitalization and death rates with this ploy.

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2 minutes ago, kokotg said:

If that happened it's incompetence and not malevolence, though (and it wouldn't mean more positive results, right--like the numbers are correct, just the individual people were told the wrong thing?)--the conspiracy theory is that people are deliberately making up positives for people who never got tested to make it look like there are more cases than there are. I'm unclear on how they're supposed to be also increasing hospitalization and death rates with this ploy.

And can you tell me what the reasoning is for accusing liberals of wanting high numbers?  It is so dumb to me and makes no sense, but maybe I am missing something.  

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22 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

And can you tell me what the reasoning is for accusing liberals of wanting high numbers?  It is so dumb to me and makes no sense, but maybe I am missing something.  

The "theory" is that Democrats are falsely inflating both cases and deaths to make the virus seem worse than it is, in order to make Trump look bad so he won't be reelected. How Democrats manage to control all reporting of tests and deaths, or why the entire world would participate in this "hoax," is unclear. 

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1 hour ago, kokotg said:

From a parent in Paulding county, home of the viral hallway picture:

 

117768248_10157039102916642_6086004349531504101_n.jpg

Part of my not wanting to send my son into a situation that is as ideal as it can get (safer than most people are at work) for one day per week is that I am positive there are parents sending their kids who have exactly this thought pattern. I'm in conspiracy theory heaven.

38 minutes ago, cintinative said:

This actually happened. I don't know how many were affected, but there was a testing facility in FL that recorded a number for each person and if the person jumped out of line, they didn't check to make sure the person they were tested correlated with the test number. So people who were not tested were told they had a result, and then every subsequent person in line was told the wrong result.  It was a horrible, preventable mess.  I don't know if it affected thousands though, and certainly that is not a good enough reason to not be tested. 

I know it doesn't matter to those who are down the rabbit hole, but a conspiracy has to involve intent; if they are finding and fixing mistakes, there is no conspiracy. Sigh. I know you know that too, lol! If a mistake = conspiracy, we could make one up for anything in the universe.

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9 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I finally sat through most of a recording of this week’s school board meeting and, while I agree with their outcome, the discussion was crazy. Admins asking if kids wearing masks for a full day was safe. (Not reasonable, but safe), stating there was medicine for COVID so it isn’t a big deal, asking to put full time in-person on the list of options (it never has been), people starting to get loud...  And that’s just the people in charge. Public comments were collected in advance.

Geeeeeeez. That's bad!

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Our schools have now been open two weeks (some full time, some with staggered starts of less than full capacity each day). We have significant community spread (over 30 new cases per 100,000 population each day and about an 18% test positivity rate). One system is mandating masks over 3rd grade. The other system has no mask rule. Teachers strongly encouraged to mask. 

We had cases in schools right since the first day back. They have had students who were determined to be in close contact notified and told to quarnatine for 14 days. The interesting thing is that they have determined that teachers who are exposed could continue to teach with ppe and distancing as long as they are asympotmatic. So no mandatory 14 day quatantine for exposed teachers. The thought is that this will be the key to staying open and that by designating the teachers as essential this would fall within CDC guidelines. 

There just isn't much political will here for closing or masking. I think the parents that are concerned kept their kids out of school but the ones who sent them really want the schools to just push through this and stay open and behave as though things are normal. Our community has never shut down much or stayed home. Actually was just a report that county finances are strong and sales tax revenues are up. 

We will see what happens but the will is there for the schools to stay open. They didn't close when the first days back yielded positive tests and exposures. They had protocols they followed and kept trucking along. 

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2 hours ago, square_25 said:

Also, this virus was a gift to Trump that he didn't make good use of. Witness Cuomo's approval ratings before and after the pandemic... disasters actually usually lead to the "rally around the flag" thing. 

True. When given a challenge, every leader has the choice to either unify the group in common defense, or throw up a defensive circle around himself. Some do not choose wisely. 

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5 hours ago, kokotg said:

From a parent in Paulding county, home of the viral hallway picture:

We don't report the flu? Um, who wants to tell them, lol? 

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On 8/11/2020 at 10:34 PM, Pen said:

I have no personal experience with these masks, but read that they might be one of many such now available as a relatively affordable option for tutors or teachers to have on hand as a better than nothing option for kids who don’t have masks of their own or forgot them, and can apparently be reused with instant pot type cleaning:

https://www.gloard.com/3-Ply-Non-Woven-10Pcs-Disposable-Face-Bandanas-with-Cute-Dinosaur-Pattern-Cloth-Covering-No-Washable-Breathable-and-Anti-Haze-Dust-for-Kids-p1128213.html

I bought a 50 pack of ones similar to these at the Asian market so I have ones to hand to students who come in without them, or get theirs wet while washing hands, or sneeze into them. Since most of my kids come after school I am kind of expecting some of their masks to be pretty gross by that time. They have little Pandas on them, and I suspect some of my kids might want them just because they are cute :). 

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32 minutes ago, cintinative said:

That's interesting. Our local high school has a positive case on a sports team. The band and all the other sports teams have continued to practice and school starts a week from tomorrow, although they recently changed to a hybrid plan (all online is also an option). The county health department told the superintendent that he would have cases and asked what would need to happen for him to shut down and go all remote. He told them he was hoping there wouldn't be more than one positive case per building.🙄 The health department had to tell him that's not really how this works and he might want to get a plan in place.

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48 minutes ago, cintinative said:

It lists a teacher who died in our county.  I think what is a little misleading is this was back when schools were shutdown late spring.  School was not where she contracted COVID and it did not lead to any spread within the school as they were not open at that time.

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Just now, square_25 said:

Maybe you should let her know? She may not know. 

I can't quite figure it all out either. A couple of the deaths listed with dates over the summer and/or are in places where I know schools haven't been open yet or won't be opening for the fall.

The deaths added seem to be people who may have worked for a school system in some way even if that's not where they got covid? Maybe to show that if schools were open these people would have spread it?

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1 hour ago, cintinative said:

 

My  state has had more than what’s listed. One of first severe cases was a school custodian who ended up on ventilator for a long time—last I heard he had gotten off and was able to go to a step down facility, but I haven’t heard since.  Several schools had cases that caused dhutdowns and cleaning, and there have been early season athletics cases. 

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19 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Hm. That's weird. Where's she getting the data? 

 

It says she was scouring available info at first. 

Now People are emailing with more information.

Apparently. With links to verifiable sources. But date she adds info isn’t necessarily when the illness happened.

(Some schools were open for staff and certain students even during lock down distance learning. So “shut” wasn’t necessarily the same as no one there. 

Some teachers worked from school.  Some schools gave out lunches and other things.  Some schools provided care for essential workers’  children. )

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On 8/14/2020 at 2:48 PM, square_25 said:

Also, this virus was a gift to Trump that he didn't make good use of. Witness Cuomo's approval ratings before and after the pandemic... disasters actually usually lead to the "rally around the flag" thing. 

Assuming the above comment is allowed here ... the worst US numbers and the biggest reason for our national numbers to be bad come out of the NYC area, so honestly I don't see how this kind of reasoning makes sense at all.  It continues to blow my mind how anyone can say New York did it right.

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13 minutes ago, SKL said:

Assuming the above comment is allowed here ... the worst US numbers and the biggest reason for our national numbers to be bad come out of the NYC area, so honestly I don't see how this kind of reasoning makes sense at all.  It continues to blow my mind how anyone can say New York did it right.

There’s a pretty big difference between not doing everything right from the very beginning and continuing to lie, be incompetent, ignore advice of public health officials and encourage others to do the same, try to make things partisan, not admit mistakes, not take responsibility, etc. People will forgive leaders who make mistakes and vow to do better and then actually do it. The same can’t be said for those who continue to demonstrate very poor leadership.

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I can understand not wanting to get tested if one suspects a mild case, especially prior to the opening of in-person school.  It does give the impression that cases are increasing, though they may actually be decreasing.  Not only schools but all other businesses and services can be affected by that.  I continue to prefer that people all just behave as if they have an illness that they don't want to spread.

Even with school in session, it seems to me that the benefit of testing is limited unless they can use a test that is both accurate and quick.  Right now it sounds like most of the test results don't come back until after the contagious period is over.

Another thing I haven't seen discussed, but I do wonder about it - what is the risk that the testing process itself (as actually done in practice) may be spreading the virus?

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9 minutes ago, SKL said:

 Even with school in session, it seems to me that the benefit of testing is limited unless they can use a test that is both accurate and quick.  Right now it sounds like most of the test results don't come back until after the contagious period is over.

Another thing I haven't seen discussed, but I do wonder about it - what is the risk that the testing process itself (as actually done in practice) may be spreading the virus?

Testing time seems to be wildly variant. My husband got tested on a Friday morning and had results Saturday afternoon. 

I don't think the risk is high at all. Maybe I'm too optimistic in this regard, but I can't imagine too many places are packing suspected Covid cases into a room together to await testing. If they are, then heaven help us all. 

I know contact tracing is not what it should be, but if this were happening in any statistically meaningful way, I think we'd be hearing at least anecdotal stories about by now, and that's one thing I haven't seen. 

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58 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Yeah, we really really need rapid tests, preferable at-home ones. Otherwise, the testing doesn't help nearly as much. 

 

And ideally IMO, it would be something like the type Michael Mina has talked about, easy to self read

results,  and where  we can get a tester and some test strips as part of our First Aid supplies, ready to test when we experience symptoms (or whatever is right according to the instructions). 

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Here’s a new one. I know a family who is seriously considering moving to Florida so their kids can go to school. They both work from home and just spent the last 5 months in Hawaii attempting to ride out the pandemic since they live in the National Capital region and it’s been a bit of a hotspot. Now that things have dragged on longer than anyone originally imagined, they’ve done a complete 180.  I think they just hit the end of their patience with trying to work with 4 young children in the house. Their jobs are high demand/high reward and they never anticipated having to do them while the kids were around. This will be interesting. 

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42 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Here’s a new one. I know a family who is seriously considering moving to Florida so their kids can go to school. They both work from home and just spent the last 5 months in Hawaii attempting to ride out the pandemic since they live in the National Capital region and it’s been a bit of a hotspot. Now that things have dragged on longer than anyone originally imagined, they’ve done a complete 180.  I think they just hit the end of their patience with trying to work with 4 young children in the house. Their jobs are high demand/high reward and they never anticipated having to do them while the kids were around. This will be interesting. 

My sister suggested my kids attend her kids' school since they are open.  I personally feel that longer-term stability is more important than getting exactly what we want today.  I invested a lot into helping my kids become members of their school community (it is a new school for them but still).  Not sure, but they might be able to switch to the county's Lutheran high school for which our K-8 is a feeder school.  They are starting in-person, and many of my kids' school friends are going there.  But again, stability for the long term.  The reasons for choosing our public high school have not really changed.  That said ... if this all-virtual stuff continues very long, I might feel regret.  Hard to predict.

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6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1236895?__twitter_impression=true
 

student attended with coronavirus under the mistaken assumption that being asymptomatic meant they were not contagious.

 

What is the current official quarantine time for people who test positive and are Asymptomatic?

What is the current official quarantine time for people who test positive and are symptomatic? 

 

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Our local school district just moved back the start of school by one week. This summer they had hoped to put air conditioning in the buildings that didn't have it,  but they weren't able to get it done. Now with students having to wear masks in potentially hot rooms, they're waiting a week. I think they also may need another week to prepare.

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1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

Here’s a new one. I know a family who is seriously considering moving to Florida so their kids can go to school. They both work from home and just spent the last 5 months in Hawaii attempting to ride out the pandemic since they live in the National Capital region and it’s been a bit of a hotspot. Now that things have dragged on longer than anyone originally imagined, they’ve done a complete 180.  I think they just hit the end of their patience with trying to work with 4 young children in the house. Their jobs are high demand/high reward and they never anticipated having to do them while the kids were around. This will be interesting. 

I imagine they'll feel pretty silly if they go to all the trouble of moving to Florida and then the schools shut back down again after a few weeks. 

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4 hours ago, kokotg said:

I imagine they'll feel pretty silly if they go to all the trouble of moving to Florida and then the schools shut back down again after a few weeks. 

That's my thinking.  They have the means to move about if they want to.  The sheer amount of energy that it would take to resettle a family of six makes me so tired for them.  I like to think I'm a high energy person, but that seems like a lot. To go through with no guarantee that a school will be open for very long makes my head spin.  I'm surprised they haven't tried to get a live-in nanny. 

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47 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

 I'm surprised they haven't tried to get a live-in nanny. 

That's exactly what I was about to ask. I wouldn't even think they'd need live-in, if having the kids out of school is their only problem. 

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1 minute ago, katilac said:

That's exactly what I was about to ask. I wouldn't even think they'd need live-in, if having the kids out of school is their only problem. 

I don't know.  Even with a nanny it's not going to be a quiet home. They were used to getting the bulk of their office work done during the school day.  Still, they have a third floor playroom that would be ideal for homeschooling.

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47 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

In our area, the public schools announced online learning earlier than the private schools, but now the privates seem to be changing one by one.  Many parents are upset that these decisions are being made after tuition became nonrefundable.

When I look at the list of schools that are still planning to open, it's the small schools that struggle for enrollment and tuition dollars who haven't made the call yet.  

To be honest, it would be hard for me to justify paying tuition without knowing whether or not the school would be open.  I know my sister told her school flat out that she would pull her kids if they didn't meet in person.  (She lives in a county with a relatively low infection rate.)  I suspect some other parents are doing the same.  Not just because the parents want/need to work, but also because they lose a lot of the benefit they are paying for if the kids aren't going to school.

I have also seen, though, where small schools have less crowding issues, so I guess it makes sense that in-person school would be less of a risk.

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8 hours ago, SKL said:

It would be very interesting to know if anyone caught the virus from this student while he was at school that day.

One other student tested positive and 22 are now quarantining.

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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One other student tested positive and 22 are now quarantining.

If you took that from the article, it does not seem to say the second student got the virus from the one we're talking about.  It sounds like there are two cases that were discovered at the same time, not necessarily related to each other.

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This is for a college, but FYI.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/08/17/unc-chapel-hill-covid-cases-fall-semester-online-classes/3383874001/?fbclid=IwAR05GYG1os7kjbvnb4Gwcehis1Oj6VoR48m2Vo0kBjMgc70oMufnsESvDMg

UNC's Chapel Hill campus reported 130 student cases in the past week, a significant increase from the 10 cases it reported on campus in the week leading up to the start of class. 

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2 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

That's why I said it, because I think that parents should be warned before they sign for tuition.   

I do think that there are some ways that small private schools, especially ones that teach little kids and can use a cohort model, are better positioned to open, in part because of less crowded classrooms, and in part because they don't have buses.  

Having said that, in my opinion, if a community is at a point where they feel it's unsafe to open public schools because the numbers aren't falling, then I think they need to do everything they can to get those numbers to fall.  In my area every school district and most private schools are closed, but we have gyms, and indoor dining, and bars open.  To me, that doesn't reflect the right priorities.  I think that if public schools are closed, then almost everything should be closed.  Because public schools are critical both for the children's learning, and for the parents who don't have another childcare option.  

As much as I hate that our schools are closed, I feel it's different from bars etc., because school attendance is mandatory.  If you don't want to get exposed to germs at the bar / gym, you can stay away from bars / gyms, but if school is open, it's not that simple.

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14 minutes ago, SKL said:

If you took that from the article, it does not seem to say the second student got the virus from the one we're talking about.  It sounds like there are two cases that were discovered at the same time, not necessarily related to each other.

Yes that was not clear.  It’s was just known that there were at least two students.  Proving who transmitted to who seems to be one of the issues with this discussion. In some studies it’s presumed that the parents transmitted to the kids on the basis that “kids transmit less” even though that’s not ready proven at this point.  In the NSW girls school here there was an outbreak among kids that wasn’t in their families so was definitely transmission in the school environment.

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