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11 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Home Depot had them online for a few bucks a piece last we shopped. They’re not particularly hard to find anymore, we had to get more for painting....?

Per classified (and I assume certified) contracts, our district has to provide necessary PPE. That's probably 100-150 people in just my school, new mask every day for each. Did I mention we're expecting huge budget cuts? If the federal govt really wants schools open, they can provide the PPE. 

ETA: Last I heard, I think they were going to provide staff with a cloth mask, which I'm ok with if they make students mask. But the original plan (pre July 1 state-wide mask mandate) was that students would not be required to mask. If that's still the case, I think they need to give me N95s to protect me (cloth doesn't cut it unless most are masked).

Edited by Ali in OR
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Our society needs kids to be in school.  Our economy sure as hell needs kids in school full time.  Many kids need to be in school, for a wide variety of reasons.   But kids in school is only safe

One of our good friends is a family practice physician and they were getting swamped by requests by adults when the mask requirements came out. They got together and unanimously decided their response

From my perspective, because of what they've done, crap upon crap happens. Obviously the pandemic itself was out of everyone's control.  But as we have seen around the world, a population's behav

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44 minutes ago, sassenach said:

And this is all with a motivated and present adult, who has 10 years of homeschooling under her belt. Our district completely lost some of our lower income, non-english household kids. 

Bad as the standardized tests may be, it shows how bad English and Math are in my district.  Even the after schooling Asians in my area are saying their public school kids became demotivated. My district isn’t releasing the first tentative plan to public until July 14th.

41 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

 

Another complication in this area: we have parents at home for various reasons or grandparents nearby, but many, many families do not have internet. Or computers. Or maybe 1 computer but 2 or 3 school kids. As far as I know, nothing was done to address this. 

CAVA (K12 inc) issued out one desktop/laptop per high school kid, one desktop per family for K-8th kids. They also reimburse internet expenses for low income families. Curriculum, including lab supplies, was shipped to family by UPS. Not perfect but feasible model.

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2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

CAVA (K12 inc) issued out one desktop/laptop per high school kid, one desktop per family for K-8th kids. They also reimburse internet expenses for low income families. Curriculum, including lab supplies, was shipped to family by UPS. Not perfect but feasible model.

The state continued shutting down our online charters that were performing poorly. I think our K12 charter is 6-12.  And our Connections Academy is high school only. All of our online charters have a long waiting list now. They could have kept them open, but nope. I'm sure whatever they come up with will be so much better. 🙄

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43 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Two other big metro counties backpedaled last night and are now requiring masks, so I suspect/hope our county will follow eventually. 

 

Geeze, I hope so. Our state is still relatively safe altho cases are rising somewhat. We're nowhere near the exponential growth seen elsewhere...yet but we also had a mandatory public mask policy issued several months ago. After a blip over Memorial Day when it looked like people locally let their guards down, things are back to 90%+ masked in public.

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1 hour ago, pitterpatter said:

All I can say is that I've never been so happy that we homeschool in my entire life. CoVid circumstances have also provided me greater confidence in homeschooling DD through her high school years, which we'll start in the fall of 2021. I'm happy to have the extra excuse to keep her home. I'm hoping colleges will see homeschooling as a plus in the coming years, as DD will be getting full schooling at home instead of partial schooling in a traditional classroom.

In spring of 2019, I had to make a decision whether to send my twins to public school for 9th or keep them home - knowing I was committing to all 4 years at home if we homeschooled.  I agonized so much, but we (DH, me, and my boys) decided to continue homeschooling.  So many things through their 9th grade year showed me we made the right decision, but COVID put our decision over the top.  Just so happy we continued on.  You can do it!!!!!  And...my boys are very happy with their education, which is the most important thing.  I am also no longer worried about getting them into college as homeschoolers.  We will keep doing what we're doing with more confidence than ever before :-).

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I find it fascinating how many people on this board have complained about how uncomfortable masks are but now we’re going to throw teachers in a N95 for 6-8 hours a day?!? I would so walk if I was a teacher at this moment. Over the years we’ve decided they’re supposed to put up with more and more crap and this would just be the end for me. 

I know my sister’s school district is only allowing teachers to wear clear face shields so no masks at all. 

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1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Where, pray tell, are teachers supposed to get these N95s?

Right? I haven't seen one in real life or online since January, and I check Lowes, Home Depot, Walgreens, Walmart, online and have friends checking in-store etc. often. 

I figure if our doctors are still reusing masks for several days at a time, we have no realistic chance of being able to buy those directly.

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2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Right? I haven't seen one in real life or online since January, and I check Lowes, Home Depot, Walgreens, Walmart, online and have friends checking in-store etc. often. 

I figure if our doctors are still reusing masks for several days at a time, we have no realistic chance of being able to buy those directly.

I am finding KN95 at the Asian markets, but no N95 and nothing other than surgical and cloth masks anywhere else around here.

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8 minutes ago, Joker said:

 

I know my sister’s school district is only allowing teachers to wear clear face shields so no masks at all. 

 

Yes. For some kids, they need to be able to read lips. That hasn't been addressed in this thread yet that I know of, but yes, some teachers who teach ESL or hearing impaired students will need a mask with a clear view of their lips or a face shield.  

Edited by cintinative
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My kids' school is offering online if you want it, otherwise, the default is you bring your butt to school.

I am 100% in favor and my kids will be in that classroom.

In fact, they will be starting cross country and marching band later this month.

In my kids' 8th grade virtual graduation ceremony, their teacher told of the year she graduated 8th when there was also a pandemic (H3N2 virus).  She said everyone knew someone who had died of it (not true of Covid19 so far).  Yet they never did close the schools nor even ask the kids to mask.  I was alive back then and I am pretty sure there wasn't even any discussion of closing the schools.

The severe illness and death rate of this illness, for people well enough to go to school or care for children in the first place, is extremely low.

We will have to continue to protect those who are unwell, and I'm confident that if we try, we can do that without keeping the kids home.

I know this may not be a popular opinion on a homeschool-oriented board, but I strongly feel that too much is lost by preventing kids from congregating, and the risks really do not justify it in this case.

Edited by SKL
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Just now, cintinative said:

 

For some kids, they need to be able to read lips. That hasn't been addressed in this thread yet that I know of, but yes, some teachers who teach ESL or hearing impaired students will need a mask with a clear view of their lips or a face shield.  

I totally understand the need for shields instead of masks but no one is being properly protected with the face shields. We’re asking too much of our teachers.

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1 hour ago, sassenach said:

 

Teachers can teach in N95s. Will it be unpleasant? Yes. Did they sign up for this? No. But these kids need direct instruction and it absolutely can be done in an N95.

We need to all understand that an N95 is only as good as the seal it makes on the face. For true 95% filtration it must be testes in a fit test, often taped along the edges in places. And various people will fit some brands better than others. 

This doesn't matter when we are talking about preventing droplets from escaping and being spewed onto others. It DOES matter if we are talking about protecting the wearer, who is in a confined space with a dozen or more other unmasked people for 6-8 hours a day, day after day. 

6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

. I kind of hope they have the teachers do face shields instead of masks, because I think that’s easier for my own kid, but whatever.

Yeah, that's totally unsafe for the teachers. Hoping they have the teachers do something that puts them at risk is because it is easier for the kids is how we are going to end up with a lot of sick teachers, or teachers flat out quitting. 

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11 minutes ago, Joker said:

I find it fascinating how many people on this board have complained about how uncomfortable masks are but now we’re going to throw teachers in a N95 for 6-8 hours a day?!? I would so walk if I was a teacher at this moment. Over the years we’ve decided they’re supposed to put up with more and more crap and this would just be the end for me. 

I know my sister’s school district is only allowing teachers to wear clear face shields so no masks at all. 

I’m seeing teachers on local groups asking about homeschooling their own kids. There will be plenty who just won’t be going back.

As far as kids’ mental health, I don’t take that lightly. We’ve dealt with issues in our own home. But I’ll take that over a disease we don’t fully understand yet. And I can’t imagine the lifelong psychological impact of harming other people, if it were to come to that.

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5 minutes ago, SKL said:

 

In my kids' 8th grade virtual graduation ceremony, their teacher told of the year she graduated 8th when there was also a SARS pandemic.  She said everyone knew someone who had died of it (not true of Covid19 so far).  Yet they never did close the schools. 

We will have to continue to protect those who are unwell, and I'm confident that if we try, we can do that without keeping the kids home.

 

1. Makes me wonder if the reason so many people knew someone that died is because no one was willing to close things. 

2. HOw? How do we protect those with diabetes, hypertension, COPD, on immune modulating medications, those who are pregnant, those who are over 60, etc, while having schools open as normal? We'd LOVE that, but I haven't seen any info on how. For instance, we know teens can spread it, likely as well as adults. There are thousands of teens that will be in the highschool my sister is an administrator at. How do you keep it from spreading through those kids to the staff who have hypertension, diabetes, are pregnant, severe asthma, who are taking immune modulating drugs for IBS or RA or what not, etc? How?

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1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

Home Depot had them online for a few bucks a piece last we shopped. They’re not particularly hard to find anymore, we had to get more for painting....? That was just a few weeks ago, though they do go in and out of stock.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Disposable-Plus-Performance-Sanding-and-Fiberglass-Respirator-20-Pack-8210PH20-DC/309801231

Thanks. I have friends posted at Wright, and I'll have them look when they are at HD for me. 🙂 When I plug in their zipcode, there's nothing within 100 miles of them in store, but if it's going in and out of stock in store....maybe there is hope.

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1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m seeing teachers on local groups asking about homeschooling their own kids. There will be plenty who just won’t be going back.

As far as kids’ mental health, I don’t take that lightly. We’ve dealt with issues in our own home. But I’ll take that over a disease we don’t fully understand yet. And I can’t imagine the lifelong psychological impact of harming other people, if it were to come to that.

Right. The psychological stress of going in and out of isolation if a friend or teacher is positive, of losing a teacher to the illness, of having teachers in and out of the classroom in isolation, of having friends ending up in quarantine, etc isn't nothing either. 

Honestly, it all sucks. it just does. We need to stop trying to pretend there is an option that won't be stressful. 

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6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

2. HOw? How do we protect those with diabetes, hypertension, COPD, on immune modulating medications, those who are pregnant, those who are over 60, etc, while having schools open as normal? We'd LOVE that, but I haven't seen any info on how. For instance, we know teens can spread it, likely as well as adults. There are thousands of teens that will be in the highschool my sister is an administrator at. How do you keep it from spreading through those kids to the staff who have hypertension, diabetes, are pregnant, severe asthma, who are taking immune modulating drugs for IBS or RA or what not, etc? How?

My friends in Denmark who have their kids in public school are getting tested every two weeks.  It's not entirely risk-free, but it is very controlled.  About half of the students didn't return to school, which is the only thing that allowed their schools to open with social distancing.  That said, her kids are at camp right now, and their lives are almost entirely back to normal because they have easy access to testing, easy access to sick leave from work, and contact tracing is carried out 100%.

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1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Thanks. I have friends posted at Wright, and I'll have them look when they are at HD for me. 🙂 When I plug in their zipcode, there's nothing within 100 miles of them in store, but if it's going in and out of stock in store....maybe there is hope.

When I look it is unavailable to ship, unavailable at stores within 100 miles, unavailable to ship to store. 

Our medical workers can't get them, so I don't expect to have enough for teachers, custodians, bus drivers, administrators, etc. No way in heck. (and again, at least in my state, NONE of the money earmarked for Covid for the schools is going to PPE or cleaning supplies or anything - it goes to curriculum and online materials, etc)

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Just now, Arctic Mama said:

Last I saw they were indicating face shields were somewhat helpful for droplets, which is what everyone is concerned about...? Did the stupid recommendations change *again*?

They help to stop the droplets of the person talking from spreading out into the air around them, where they will dry up enough to become smaller aerosolized particles, which travel far. When the person wearing the shield speaks the droplets hit the shield or fall down onto the person wearing its shirt. Or at least toward their feet. 

BUT, if the students are not wearing them, then when they breathe, talk, etc their droplets can become aerosolized, and those particles can move any which way in the air currents in the classroom, including around and under the shield of the teacher. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Last I saw they were indicating face shields were somewhat helpful for droplets, which is what everyone is concerned about...? Did the stupid recommendations change *again*?

I think there is growing evidence that aerosol spread is driving some of the cases....and face shields don't help with aerosol. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-coronavirus-spreads-through-the-air-what-we-know-so-far1/  This is the best, balanced article I've read on it. 

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I think honestly, we should have looked hard and prioritized what we wanted open the most. If it is schools, and elective medical procedures (reasonable priorities) we should not have opened restaurant dining rooms, gyms, and bars. Every time we add more exposure to large groups, we increase spread. We should have done better picking which large groups we wanted. 

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16 minutes ago, SKL said:

marching band later this month.

I find that hard to believe with the amount of spit that goes onto a band room floor. The amount of force from deep in the diaphragm that is required to blow through the instruments. I don't think that will last. 

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24 minutes ago, SKL said:

My kids' school is offering online if you want it, otherwise, the default is you bring your butt to school.

I am 100% in favor and my kids will be in that classroom.

In fact, they will be starting cross country and marching band later this month.

In my kids' 8th grade virtual graduation ceremony, their teacher told of the year she graduated 8th when there was also a SARS pandemic.  She said everyone knew someone who had died of it (not true of Covid19 so far).  Yet they never did close the schools.  I was alive back then and I am pretty sure there wasn't even any discussion of closing the schools.

The severe illness and death rate of this illness, for people well enough to go to school or care for children in the first place, is extremely low.

We will have to continue to protect those who are unwell, and I'm confident that if we try, we can do that without keeping the kids home.

I know this may not be a popular opinion on a homeschool-oriented board, but I strongly feel that too much is lost by preventing kids from congregating, and the risks really do not justify it in this case.

In the US, only 8 people contracted SARS.  Of course we weren't closing the schools.  

Also, SARS wasn't contagious before symptoms developed.  

The epidemics aren't at all comparable.  (It was far more serious if you were in other parts of the world, but it still didn't have the asymptomatic spread.)

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33 minutes ago, SKL said:

In my kids' 8th grade virtual graduation ceremony, their teacher told of the year she graduated 8th when there was also a SARS pandemic.  She said everyone knew someone who had died of it (not true of Covid19 so far).  Yet they never did close the schools.  I was alive back then and I am pretty sure there wasn't even any discussion of closing the schools.

So, looked it up.   SARS, over the 1.5 year period it was active, infected 8096 people worldwide.  And it killed 774 people, worldwide.  That case rate, which includes 'probable' cases, over a year and a half, is less than the current case rate for Covid in ONE DAY just in Florida.  And that was worldwide.  Where did this teacher live that so many people were dying?  China?  It had the most fatalities.  349 people died, TOTAL, over the year and a half.  In all of China. (Source, WHO website)  Population over 1 billion.  Amazing that she knew so many people who died.  Today, in ONE day, in the US, with a population about 1/4 that of China, counted 769 deaths - more than twice what China had with SARS-1 over one and a half years. (source, Worldometer) More than SARS-1 killed over the entire course of its run.  In ONE day.  

But yeah, it's so stupid that people are more worried about this virus.  It's just the same with a '2' on the end!

And I'd love to know how this teacher managed to know so many people who died of SARS-1.   Btw, ZERO people died of SARS in the US.  Zero.

Edited by Matryoshka
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1 minute ago, Matryoshka said:

So, looked it up.   SARS, over the 1.5 year period it was active, infected 8096 people worldwide.  And it killed 774 people, worldwide.  That case rate, which includes 'probable' cases, over a year and a half, is less than the current case rate for Covid in ONE DAY just in Florida.  And that was worldwide.  Where did this teacher live that so many people were dying?  China?  It had the most fatalities.  349 people died, TOTAL, over the year and a half.  In all of China. (Source, WHO website)  Population over 1 billion.  Amazing that she knew so many people who died.  Yesterday, in ONE day, in the US, with a population about 1/4 that of China, counted 769 deaths - more than twice what China had with SARS-1 over one and a half years.  More than SARS-1 killed over the entire course of its run.  In ONE day.  

But yeah, it's so stupid that people are more worried about this virus.  It's just the same with a '2' on the end!

And I'd love to know how this teacher managed to know so many people who died of SARS-1. 

Thank you. 

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20 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think honestly, we should have looked hard and prioritized what we wanted open the most. If it is schools, and elective medical procedures (reasonable priorities) we should not have opened restaurant dining rooms, gyms, and bars. Every time we add more exposure to large groups, we increase spread. We should have done better picking which large groups we wanted. 

Exactly. If we wanted schools to open (and, to be clear, pretty much everyone WANTS schools to open; that's not what's being debated--the disagreement is about whether it's possible to do it safely) we should have done the work. People picked bars and gyms over schools. There was a music festival in my town last weekend so large crowds could gather to watch a Tom Petty cover band and drink Bud Light. That's what people have prioritized over schools. And the other part of doing the work is making schools safe for everyone. Require masks, space desks, testing, reduce class sizes. I don't want to hear a word about how schools in Denmark and Germany are opening until we're willing to do all the other things Denmark and Germany have done and are doing. 

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5 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

That is what every single parent I know with a child with special needs (I know a lot because of circles I run in) is saying, and the gung ho 100% online people don't seem to be listening.

I don't think anyone is arguing that kids with special needs don't need to be in school.  Heck, very few people are arguing that there aren't lots of kids without special needs who need to be in school.  The argument is whether any of these children can be in school safely, given the decisions our society has made collectively.  Even if parents are willing to consent to their children being in school, because they feel that the benefits outweigh the risks, they can't consent for the teachers who will be at risk. 

I know in our district's proposal, kids with special needs got priority on daily attendance.   

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Just now, kdsuomi said:

 

Not to mention, other workers are required to wear them, too. I don't have to because I work alone, but most employees where I work have to wear a mask for their entire shifts.

We could also say that it's interesting how the people who are usually shouting for masks in all circumstances and at all times are all of a sudden saying that it shouldn't be expected of teachers.

If you look at what I actually wrote you will see I was explicitly referring to having teachers wear N95 masks all day. That is very different than what most of us are wearing. The school I am most familiar with isn’t allowing masks at all, only shields. 
 

And no one is ignoring the fact that special education students need the in person instruction. Many just don’t agree with the way the discussion has become all students in classes all five days every week. I think it all has to be balanced and shouldn’t end up with the teachers just having to deal and getting sick.

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7 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Speak for yourself, we did the work here. I was locked down from the first week of March until June, in an area with almost zero community spread. Things HAD to open up eventually. And honestly it is still pretty good here, very manageable numbers in the population and plenty of beds.  The issues were in nursing homes and the prisons, primarily. But pretending it was just stupid Americans not locking down is disingenuous. Two weeks to flatten the curve was done. Then another month and change on top of it. But from the get go it was known this would spread after the initial suppression.

It is economically, emotionally, and physically untenable to stay locked down entirely for months on end. Plenty of us did the work and are done, just managing social contact and exposures as needed based on local numbers. That’s the way it was always supposed to be.

 

If it was so impossible to get the spread under control by now then why was every other wealthy country in the world able to do it? 

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re witholding federal funding for any K-12 school that doesn't get with the deVos program:

1 hour ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

He threatened to cut funding for special ed and food?

Can any of you who think it’s fine, no worries about sending kids back comment on with-holding funds for food and special ed?

Yes, De Vos was explicit;; and DT sent out an affirming tweet shortly after that read "may cut off funding if not open!"

45 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think honestly, we should have looked hard and prioritized what we wanted open the most. If it is schools, and elective medical procedures (reasonable priorities) we should not have opened restaurant dining rooms, gyms, and bars. Every time we add more exposure to large groups, we increase spread. We should have done better picking which large groups we wanted. 

This.  I actually do think IRL school should be among the very top-most priorities for re-opening (certainly ahead of bars and cruise ships).

So you figure out how to do it as safely as possible. Which will cost.

The federal government compelling a one-size-fits-all Let Er Rip reopening, damn the torpedoes bring it on, on every state and district irregardless of local capacity, local cases, and local circumstances will cost too.  Every option costs.

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The fact is that it doesn’t matter what anyone’s preferences are.  Given the current levels of community spread, it simply won’t WORK.  It won’t be POSSIBLE.  Teachers will get sick, and there won’t be any subs.  You can’t run a school without staff.  The question is do we wait for them to get sick and die first?  
 

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1 hour ago, Joker said:

I find it fascinating how many people on this board have complained about how uncomfortable masks are but now we’re going to throw teachers in a N95 for 6-8 hours a day?!? I would so walk if I was a teacher at this moment. Over the years we’ve decided they’re supposed to put up with more and more crap and this would just be the end for me. 

I know my sister’s school district is only allowing teachers to wear clear face shields so no masks at all. 

 

And especially if they have to go to Home Depot and buy their own face masks.

Quote

@Ktgrok Last I saw they were indicating face shields were somewhat helpful for droplets, which is what everyone is concerned about...? Did the stupid recommendations change *again*?

 

Does it occur to you that when we know better, we do better? As we learn more about this disease, of course the recommendations are going to change. That's not "stupid".

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2 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

People really need to stop comparing tiny countries with very centralized government systems to the U.S. We are geographically and population wise no comparison to those other countries. I mean, only eight countries in Europe have a population higher than my state. My state's population is also higher than Canada and Australia. Lots of people, within lots of territories, and (for good reason) we don't have the same centralized and powerful government system that others have. There are loads of reasons why it's working out differently in the U.S. than in other places, and they aren't that Americans don't care about others, are lazy, or any other of the numerous insults people on here like to throw out.

Then go ahead and compare the European Union to the US. But whatever the reasons are that the US reported 186 times as many cases and 90 times as many deaths as Germany yesterday despite having only 4 times the population....it did. That's the situation we're in right now while we're trying to reopen schools and the president is tweeting that we can do it because Germany did.

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When your country's curve looks like Europe, you get to open schools. When your curve looks like the US, it's a bad idea. If you believe in and use science (wear masks, test, do contact tracing, get numbers down before you open up), you get the nice curve. If everyone does what they want when they want, you get the exponential curve. No school for you.

ETA: and this is an old graph--we're hitting 50k now!

Screen Shot 2020-07-08 at 4.46.37 PM.png

Edited by Ali in OR
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2 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

When your country's curve looks like Europe, you get to open schools. When your curve looks like the US, it's a bad idea. If you believe in and use science (wear masks, test, do contact tracing, get numbers down before you open up), you get the nice curve. If everyone does what they want when they want, you get the exponential curve. No school for you.

 

Screen Shot 2020-07-08 at 4.46.37 PM.png

And that graph looks way worse for the US now than it did on June 24

EU population is over 100 million more than the US and they also have lots of separate governments.

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And if your state looks awesome right now (although there are officially zero states with cases going down on average over the past 2 weeks as of today, I believe) and can open up safely, then that's wonderful for you. Mine can't, and they're still trying to make my husband risk his health to go back to work without the most basic of precautions.

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I personally believe that all of this would be so much more straightforward if we could just do rapid tests the day before school begins and just keep testing everyone on the regular and follow up when cases pop up in schools.  The fact that even that is a non-starter (there's not enough tests here to test asymptomatic people here) means that this year is going to be pretty ugly. 

All of the chaos and disagreement between politics and science etc. to some degree would be resolved if we had 1. adequate PPE for everyone and 2. adequate testing for everyone.  That is the key problem, and we've lost sight of that as a nation.

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2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I personally believe that all of this would be so much more straightforward if we could just do rapid tests the day before school begins and just keep testing everyone on the regular and follow up when cases pop up in schools.  The fact that even that is a non-starter (there's not enough tests here to test asymptomatic people here) means that this year is going to be pretty ugly. 

All of the chaos and disagreement between politics and science etc. to some degree would be resolved if we had 1. adequate PPE for everyone and 2. adequate testing for everyone.  That is the key problem, and we've lost sight of that as a nation.

Yup.  MLB plans to test everyone involved every other day.  If that’s on the table for schools, then yes, that’s a totally different scenario.  School opening becomes far more doable if frequent testing and masking everyone is on the table.  Here, the argument is just open schools, full steam ahead, but not having kids wear masks, when testing is hard to get.  

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I don't have any answers to any of this but the truth is in my area if schools stay closed they are the only thing closed. At that point is it worth keeping them closed?

If the mega church is holding regular super spreader events with a geriatric choir what is the point of keeping kids home? I don't really mean it. I understand the risk of having kids in school but it is infuriating that everyone else is doing whatever they dang well please and it is the kids who are going to suffer. 

Our schools are supposed to start early August with cases surging (largely linked to a mega church that hosted multiple large events with no social distancing or masks and with a large choir). Our hospital is full of these members of this church. We had our cases largely under control and now we are getting slammed and it is so maddening. 

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38 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

People saying that there should be no in-person school are definitely saying that kids with special needs shouldn't be educated, but they're not getting that online. Sorry, but every single employee who is working outside of the home is at risk. I work at a very at risk (far more than schools) location, and no one seems to say we should be forced to close (hyperbolic because it can't close but still true). If it's too dangerous for teachers to work, then it's too dangerous for anyone to work. 

 

If you're working in a building with 2000 other people, often gathering in groups of several hundred, switching out into separate groups of 25-35 and sitting in rooms together for an hour at a time so that you end might end up in sustained contact with as many as 150 different people in one day, and no one is taking steps like requiring proper equipment and observing social distancing and doing testing in order to make that as safe as it can reasonably be....then yes that is too dangerous; it is absolutely terrible and should not be happening. People HAVE been asked to work under conditions like this, of course, and it's not right and shouldn't have happened and it did a lot to contribute to the conditions we find ourselves in right now. 

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In regard to special needs students being on campus-I do believe they need to be in school. However, I know from working in Special Education that if these students are required to be there and other students are not, behavior problems will escalate. No matter if the students at home are having online classes with a live teacher, the special education students are likely to see it as unfair.

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47 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

People really need to stop comparing tiny countries with very centralized government systems to the U.S. We are geographically and population wise no comparison to those other countries. I mean, only eight countries in Europe have a population higher than my state. My state's population is also higher than Canada and Australia. Lots of people, within lots of territories, and (for good reason) we don't have the same centralized and powerful government system that others have. There are loads of reasons why it's working out differently in the U.S. than in other places, and they aren't that Americans don't care about others, are lazy, or any other of the numerous insults people on here like to throw out.

Okay, we can compare the states of the US to the countries of the European Union, and the whole EU to the US.  It's got an even higher population, and it doesn't have a more centralized government than the US.  Right?

Yes, it's smaller in area - about half the size.  That means 100 million more people in an area half the size, with a less centralized government than the USA.  So, it's more densely populated. It's harder to control spread when things are denser, right?  Isn't that what all the rural states keep saying about why NYC got so bad but it won't get bad there?  So why do these charts look like this, again?  

Screen Shot 2020-07-08 at 4.46.37 PM.png

Edited by Matryoshka
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Do they have easier testing now? I can't imagine subjecting 5yr olds to frequent blood tests or the brain tickler up the nose every other day or even every other week. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Paige said:

Do they have easier testing now? I can't imagine subjecting 5yr olds to frequent blood tests or the brain tickler up the nose every other day or even every other week. 

 

There are saliva tests, but they're hard to get.  I strongly suspect that's what they're using at the White House.  

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1 hour ago, Joker said:

 I find it fascinating how many people on this board have complained about how uncomfortable masks are but now we’re going to throw teachers in a N95 for 6-8 hours a day?!? I would so walk if I was a teacher at this moment. Over the years we’ve decided they’re supposed to put up with more and more crap and this would just be the end for me. 

I know my sister’s school district is only allowing teachers to wear clear face shields so no masks at all. 
 

This is the point. It’s not whether teaching is safe with PPE so much is “Will teachers be allowed to even choose to wear PPE or have the PPE available so they can be safe?” Saying “no masks, just face shields” or “students don’t have to wear masks if they don’t want to”  would not be enough to make me feel safe teaching even my 1-1 students, let alone classes of 20+ kids at a time from 8:00-3:00 daily. 
 

And saying “they can wear an N95” ....well, they’re still in pretty short supply here from folks who need them for their jobs/day to day life. I imagine that this will only be worse in a month when schools reopen. 
 


 

 

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10 minutes ago, Paige said:

Do they have easier testing now? I can't imagine subjecting 5yr olds to frequent blood tests or the brain tickler up the nose every other day or even every other week. 

 

Not really.  My understanding is that tests are swabs, antibody tests are blood serum. I don't think anyone is happy to be tested, but I think it would allow us to open back up more safely and quickly.  The goal is to get things back under control....once testing numbers showed that we were back under control, you could use more precise measures to figure out who to test. Starting with baseline testing helps you have a starting place.

 

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2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

We need to all understand that an N95 is only as good as the seal it makes on the face. For true 95% filtration it must be testes in a fit test, often taped along the edges in places. And various people will fit some brands better than others. 

This doesn't matter when we are talking about preventing droplets from escaping and being spewed onto others. It DOES matter if we are talking about protecting the wearer, who is in a confined space with a dozen or more other unmasked people for 6-8 hours a day, day after day. 

Yeah, that's totally unsafe for the teachers. Hoping they have the teachers do something that puts them at risk is because it is easier for the kids is how we are going to end up with a lot of sick teachers, or teachers flat out quitting. 

My hospital fit tests everyone over the course of two weeks. For most people it’s not a long process. For those with a tricky shaped face it can be a bit of a hassle to find the right mask. But once you know your fit, you’re good. 
 

I’ll need to go searching for the studies, but I know at least a few showed much lower viral shedding in children as compared to adults. 

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