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Our society needs kids to be in school.  Our economy sure as hell needs kids in school full time.  Many kids need to be in school, for a wide variety of reasons.   But kids in school is only safe

From my perspective, because of what they've done, crap upon crap happens. Obviously the pandemic itself was out of everyone's control.  But as we have seen around the world, a population's behav

One of our good friends is a family practice physician and they were getting swamped by requests by adults when the mask requirements came out. They got together and unanimously decided their response

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9 hours ago, katilac said:

It's certainly an unproven narrative. I would be delighted if it's proven that children don't spread it, but I'm a little alarmed at how many people seem willing to bet teachers' lives on it



I get what you’re saying- I do.  But the bolded is a bit dramatic.  Teachers-  like everyone else- can, have and will choose what they are comfortable doing.   They are not commodities that we force into service.  We lost 60% of our income and an entire small business to COVID so I really feel for those who will suffer financial hardship if they aren’t comfortable or cannot returning to work due to safety concerns. 😞 I get it.  More than most.  I am one of the few on WTM who has been severely affected by COVID. so I’ve earned the right to comment on realities.  Teachers, if they don’t want to teacher can pivot like we have been forced to do, and find another path.
 

Life, especially now, is far from easy or perfect.  Our ideals are on hold right now. You can stay at home and wait till everything is safer and more contained and I bless you if that is your choice and option.  But there are some of us who really don’t have any options other than to make this work, try to be safe and find a way forward in this awful situation. Because, we have no other choice. 

I would encourage all of us to start digging more into how can we make this work instead of promoting discussions that favor idealism, “catastrophizing”, politicizing.every.single.thing, and ruminating over worst case scenarios.  I’m not saying be reckless and in denial- but respect that life and time goes forward. And we are all living different realities and have varying perspectives so there is not “perfect” option anymore.  Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good!  Time is already going on. It’s been 4 months. We can’t go back and fix or change anything, we can only work from here and try to salvage what we can. 

I feel I have earned the right, having lost our business, tens of thousands of dollars and financial stability, to speak to this from a pretty blunt, base level. YMMV 

 

4 hours ago, Joker said:

Yes, dh’s company hasn’t allowed anyone to work onsite since March (they are based in FL) They said they aren’t even going to reconsider things until at least September but aren’t expecting things to change until next year. So, it’s wild to me to think of teachers and students in the school environment any time soon. 

 

I can imagine it is wild to have that contrast play out in front of you.  Another reality is that there are a LOT of people who have been working on what we have celebrated as the “front lines” this entire time!  For months and months.  People knowingly and repeatedly exposed to germs and doing high volume, prolonged contact, public facing roles.    Airline flight attendants, medical personnel, millions of store employees, mass transit, daycares...the list goes on. 

It’s awesome that your DH can work from home and stay safer.  And presumably hasn’t had a salary disruption. But that has not been the case for millions of households and remote work will never be an option so it’s unrealistic to keep putting that lens in place in these discussions as a viable option. 

My experience has been the opposite of yours so it is not weird at all to think of modified school restarting.  Both my husband and my DD16 are now in high contact public facing jobs....literally doing work so that those who choose, can stay hunkered down. God willing, in September  I will be starting a job in a busy office environment.  Not remote. Not Zoom.  Just regular office with precautions in place. New career path for me- YAY!   
 

My thinking is this..... Either masks, social distancing and hygiene related endeavors help us or they don’t. It really seems they do slow down the spread and minimize prolonged, heavy viral load exposure, so I have no problem making responsible living choices in that context.  Sure everyone won’t be compliant but if I’m trying to stay safe and smart, that’s the only thing I can control. 

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44 minutes ago, LarlaB said:

I can imagine it is wild to have that contrast play out in front of you.  Another reality is that there are a LOT of people who have been working on what we have celebrated as the “front lines” this entire time!  For months and months.  People knowingly and repeatedly exposed to germs and doing high volume, prolonged contact, public facing roles.    Airline flight attendants, medical personnel, millions of store employees, mass transit, daycares...the list goes on. 

I WAS working from home -- but I'm back in the office now. NO WAY in our company would it be acceptable for anyone to work from home full time until 2021.

They are very family friendly and will work with me (Which is better than my husband's job. He works in the testing environment and no one under age 16 is allowed in the building at all). But just working from home until 2021 is not an option.

 

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@LarlaB, what you said. Teachers seemingly are the only workers who can't go back to work and not die in droves, despite the fact that so many have been doing it this entire time. I mean, our state is providing PPE to schools and schools cannot open if students don't have six feet distance between each other in the classroom (and have to wear masks). All classes will be no bigger than half the normal size, either, because of the spacing requirements. If it's honestly too dangerous for teachers to work in that situation, it's too dangerous for just about anyone to work in any industry.

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The proposal in our district does not provide PPE for anyone in the district.  It relies on parents to take their children's temperatures at home and not send them to school with a fever.  (Ha!)  It does not mandate masks for students.  Most jobs with the public either are high risk but with PPE provided (such as health care workers), or they are in jobs like stores or restaurants, where you have contact with many people, but for short periods of time.  (And often have six feet of distance or plexiglass.)  Our district has said there is no need to keep six feet of distance; 3 feet is fine.  Teachers are in close contact for extended periods of time.  I really can't think of an analogous position.  The closest would be working in an office in a meeting in a room with the same people for seven hours a day, five days a week (elementary) or far more people for meetings of about an hour (middle and high school).  

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1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

@LarlaB, what you said. Teachers seemingly are the only workers who can't go back to work and not die in droves, despite the fact that so many have been doing it this entire time. I mean, our state is providing PPE to schools and schools cannot open if students don't have six feet distance between each other in the classroom (and have to wear masks). All classes will be no bigger than half the normal size, either, because of the spacing requirements. If it's honestly too dangerous for teachers to work in that situation, it's too dangerous for just about anyone to work in any industry.

The difference is kids and hygiene I think.  My dh worked the whole time with a handful of days at home but he doesn’t work in a situation with kids.  The thing is you can write all the distancing and whatever else you like on paper but under about grade 4 I would say good luck enforcing any of that. 

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5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The difference is kids and hygiene I think.  My dh worked the whole time with a handful of days at home but he doesn’t work in a situation with kids.  The thing is you can write all the distancing and whatever else you like on paper but under about grade 4 I would say good luck enforcing any of that. 

Over grade 4 is also "good luck enforcing that."  Kids will be sneaking off to kiss in the halls.  Teens aren't about to let a global pandemic stop them from making out.  Or even things like hugging their friends, etc.  Teens tend to have more freedom in the halls, and it's going to be impossible to prevent that.  

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2 hours ago, LarlaB said:



 We lost 60% of our income and an entire small business to COVID so I really feel for those who will suffer financial hardship if they aren’t comfortable or cannot returning to work due to safety concerns. 😞 I get it.  More than most.  I am one of the few on WTM who has been severely affected by COVID. so I’ve earned the right to comment on realities.  Teachers, if they don’t want to teacher can pivot like we have been forced to do, and find another path.

It’s awesome that your DH can work from home and stay safer.  And presumably hasn’t had a salary disruption. But that has not been the case for millions of households and remote work will never be an option so it’s unrealistic to keep putting that lens in place in these discussions as a viable option. 

My experience has been the opposite of yours so it is not weird at all to think of modified school restarting.  Both my husband and my DD16 are now in high contact public facing jobs....literally doing work so that those who choose, can stay hunkered down. God willing, in September  I will be starting a job in a busy office environment.  Not remote. Not Zoom.  Just regular office with precautions in place. New career path for me- YAY!   
 

My thinking is this..... Either masks, social distancing and hygiene related endeavors help us or they don’t. It really seems they do slow down the spread and minimize prolonged, heavy viral load exposure, so I have no problem making responsible living choices in that context.  Sure everyone won’t be compliant but if I’m trying to stay safe and smart, that’s the only thing I can control. 

 

Thanks for speaking up. I cut parts out of your entire post. I have wondered how much of an income cut some of the posters here have experienced.

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57 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Just to be clear, the California Department of Education says they are providing PPE to custodial staff, front office staff, and staff involved in health screenings. Most teachers are not in those categories.

Scroll down to item 6

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/strongertogethehealth.asp

Unlike many states, they aren't even providing PPE for special ed teachers working with students who can't mask given the CDC recommendation that individuals without the motor skills to remove a mask not wear masks, and need assistance such as diaper changes that obviously requires staff to be within 6 feet.  

 

That's not what they've said, and it's also illegal in CA. You cannot require something as part of the job and not provide it, and no way would the CA teachers' union allow it.

I work in a huge congregate care facility, though, where no one seems concerned about the employees, so part of the response is from that. Kids don't have great hygiene and aren't cooperative? The population where I work is far less cooperative, and there is less ability for employees and non-employees to be socially distant. It's done all over in other industries. (The teachers I know in real life absolutely do not want to have to do distance "learning" again because of how non-cooperative the students are in actually doing anything and how much of a disaster it was before. That could also be coloring things.)

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14 hours ago, GGardner said:

For a typical American High School, where students are changing classes, and have different electives they take, what is the plan for those districts who would have at least some in-person classes when (not if, but when) a student or teacher tests positive for covid?  Does everyone else in every class shared with the positive person have to quarantine for two weeks?  Including the teachers? Do those teachers immediately switch to teaching from home?  Bring in a lot of subs?  If it was a student in a sport or extracurricular, is the whole team/group/coach quarantined?   Seems like just a handful of cases would force the whole school online all of a sudden?

 

That is exactly what will happen.  And the lawsuits will ensue.  

https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending/85-campers-staff-test-positive-covid-19-ymca-summer-camp/OPSPVDSXRFCLZOD7SEMLCYN2OA/

The above is not an isolated case.  Locally three daycamps have had kids and adults contract the virus.

3 teachers shared a classroom over summer school.  All 3 contracted Corona.  One died.
 

Here is an article I loved:

https://mrsteacherlife.wordpress.com/2020/07/09/nobody-asked-me-a-teachers-opinion-on-school-reopening/?fbclid=IwAR1_-fis5j20d3GqsZOr-EXZ3ytVACqKfqkO_kBnf0JJc7_bAhkpvzfZQXA

 

 

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8 hours ago, LarlaB said:



I get what you’re saying- I do.  But the bolded is a bit dramatic.  Teachers-  like everyone else- can, have and will choose what they are comfortable doing.   They are not commodities that we force into service.  

So, as a society, if teachers DO choose to leave, then how do we open schools?

And there will NOT be social distancing, etc in our schools. There just won't be. There isn't space. We can't build a bunch more schools in the next few weeks, so there won't be. We will have several thousand teens on one campus milling around, spreading it among themselves, in a state with uncontrolled spread and limited hospital capacity. 

Not wanting schools to open is not just out of concern for the teachers (although as the sister of a staff member, yes, I'm concerned for her), but also for the students and more than that, the entire community. It's like pouring gasoline on a fire that is already out of control. 

In that situation a lot of teachers are not going to come back. Unlike you, all the ones I know in this area are VERY concerned about going back in person. 

7 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

@LarlaB, what you said. Teachers seemingly are the only workers who can't go back to work and not die in droves, despite the fact that so many have been doing it this entire time. I mean, our state is providing PPE to schools and schools cannot open if students don't have six feet distance between each other in the classroom (and have to wear masks). All classes will be no bigger than half the normal size, either, because of the spacing requirements. If it's honestly too dangerous for teachers to work in that situation, it's too dangerous for just about anyone to work in any industry.

I would say that it is the minority of areas that will have 6 feet of distance, classes half the size, etc. I mean, thats not physically possible - we can't double the number of school buildings available in 4 weeks time before schools open, nor hire double the number of staff. So how would that happen while still opening schools as normal? It's not possible. And it is also wishful thinking to think that kids are going to mask the whole time, or distance. Young kids will probably try, but they forget. Teens will think they are invincible and flout the rules, etc. 

Saying that other people are taking risks doesn't make it not risky for teachers, students, or their families. Or for the community that will deal with the fall out. 

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19 hours ago, nrbeckking said:

My wife is a teacher at a k-8 school. She does all the dyslexia remediation for her school. I am terrified of her going back. Our youngest has attended the same school with her since kinder. He is not going back. I did sign him up for distance learning because I know how funding works but he will be homeschooled and use the distance as review. In Texas, dyslexia instruction must be conducted in a live setting (in person or online). There is no recording her lessons because that both does not follow the Texas Dyslexia Handbook nor does the curriculum she use allow for it. With Texas schools required to offer both in-person and online I have a feeling her work load will double. I don't know when she will have time to teach both in-person and online and her classroom is maybe 6' x 10'. Meaning you can't socially distance more than 2 people in that room. We have 3 high-risk daughters, a brand new grand-baby, and 2 sons. None of our school-aged kids will be in classrooms this year. When teachers do not trust that their own schools are doing enough to protect students and choose to keep their children home, the greater public should take note. 

The best solution I have come up with is to keep the middle and high schoolers in distance learning. Hire a lot more elementary teachers and spread elementary age children out across all buildings in a district allowing for social distancing and smaller class sizes. Of course, the government would actually have to fund hiring more elementary teachers because districts don't have that kind of money.

My district is offering remote learning to families through a third party, Edmentum, so full time remote learners won't be the responsibility of classroom teachers. If/when kids are sent home during peaks, we'll be planning for them just like we did in spring.  We don't expect many families to take the full time remote option, so it won't reduce classroom numbers significantly. 

My state guidelines are written in such a way to encourage that appears as if mask wearing, social distancing, and taking temps is going to happen.

But when you take a closer look, there's actually a lot of leeway. written in  Schools will require masks...except not of those who have medical reasons not to be wearing them or shouldn't  be wearing them for educational reasons (such as ESL teachers). Schools are encouraged to social distance, but  it actually says "social distance when possible" and my district is taking the "when possible" as 3 feet apart is fine if needed to fit kids in the classroom so we can bring everyone back every day. My district is also going with the self-certify option for taking temps, meaning parents sign off at the start of the year that they'll take their kid's temp before school everyday (which is laughable to expect every family will do that every day). 

An increase in schoolwide cleaning and disinfection will happen in my district because that's where almost all of the funds provided by the state will be going towards. There are no funds for extra staff or space to reduce class sizes. No funds to replace drinking fountains with automatic water bottle fillers. No funds to provide enough thermometers and staff to make it feasible to take temps upon entry. 

If my kids were school age, I'd probably be keeping them home this year.  At this point I'm planning to return, but I can't say I am at all comfortable with it. I only have a few years left and I'm trying to decide if it's worth it. About 28% of US teachers are age 50 or older, so I bet there's a lot of contemplating going on, and I predict resignations will increase as schools roll out the specifics of their plans.

(Stats on teachers age on page 9 https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2020/2020142.pdf)

 

 

 

 

 

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This is a long thread and I haven't read everything, but I've been curious about something:  How are daycare centers doing now?  In our state, daycare centers have mostly remained open, so that essential workers can keep working.  I also personally know several people that are now working from home who continue to send their active young children (4 and under) to daycare 3+ days/week in order to continue working (things like teaching from home, setting up virtual medical appointments with patients, etc).  The children don't social distance (something young children wouldn't understand) or wear masks.  If children show any symptoms of sickness, they do need to stay home for two weeks.  I haven't heard of Covid surges linked to daycare centers.  That's kind of surprising!

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Again, the school district my husband works at (which is a huge school district in metro Atlanta) says they will NOT be requiring nor providing masks for students, will NOT be social distancing (how could they if they're not limiting class sizes?), and will NOT be doing temperature checks or testing or any other health screenings. He'll be sitting in an air conditioned room with no openable windows for 50 minutes at a time in close contact with 5 different groups of 25-35 different students throughout the day. Please tell me which other jobs have these same conditions and have stayed open without major outbreaks right now. I'm certainly not saying that teaching is the ONLY job that presents challenges right now, but I am saying that we've already seen what happens when people are forced to work in unsafe conditions, that it's not good, and that it would be foolish to repeat the mistakes we've made before. And I'd also reiterate that IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT WE WANT. Unless you're suggesting that teachers who get sick just keep on working and that students who test positive just keep on going to school, it's a fantasy to think schools in places with rampant outbreaks will be able to stay open, particularly without putting any real safety measures in place to stop spread.

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15 minutes ago, J-rap said:

This is a long thread and I haven't read everything, but I've been curious about something:  How are daycare centers doing now?  In our state, daycare centers have mostly remained open, so that essential workers can keep working.  I also personally know several people that are now working from home who continue to send their active young children (4 and under) to daycare 3+ days/week in order to continue working (things like teaching from home, setting up virtual medical appointments with patients, etc).  The children don't social distance (something young children wouldn't understand) or wear masks.  If children show any symptoms of sickness, they do need to stay home for two weeks.  I haven't heard of Covid surges linked to daycare centers.  That's kind of surprising!

google texas day cares.

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7 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

 

 

I work in a huge congregate care facility, though, where no one seems concerned about the employees, so part of the response is from that. Kids don't have great hygiene and aren't cooperative? The population where I work is far less cooperative, and there is less ability for employees and non-employees to be socially distant. 

But you said before that everyone is required to wear masks where you work, but not you because you work by yourself, right? If they're requiring masks, they're taking more precautions than many school districts where I am. And how can a classroom with 35 students in it practice social distancing?

 

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9 minutes ago, kokotg said:

google texas day cares.

Interesting.  It sounds like it's more just recently that those numbers are creeping up.  I wonder if the young family demographic is naturally more careful (not going to bars and crowded restaurants, don't have older kids who want to hang out with their friends or are involved in outside activities, aren't as apt to need medical attention so aren't being exposed in health clinics, etc.), so it's just taking longer for the virus to reach that population.

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Just now, J-rap said:

Interesting.  It sounds like it's more just recently that those numbers are creeping up.  I wonder if the young family demographic is naturally more careful (not going to bars and crowded restaurants, don't have older kids who want to hang out with their friends or are involved in outside activities, aren't as apt to need medical attention so aren't being exposed in health clinics, etc.), so it's just taking longer for the virus to reach that population.

I think that the few kids who have still had to be in daycare have parents that have to work, many in high risk situations and have been being super careful. Same with the caregivers. As things open up, the bubble is going to pop.  Only takes one spreader.

It does seem like younger kids are less problematic.  I don't think any of that should be extrapolated to teens or even tweens.

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19 hours ago, Pen said:

Mine is older and quite good with computers, apps, typing etc — and still struggled with this.

Some assignments never got received apparently.

 then there were things like for a world history comparative religion unit, needing to put symbols for various world religions, it took an hour to try to get just a ✝️ cross image to load onto google classroom assignment page.  Even harder to draw symbols like ☯️ would have been way easier and faster to draw than to upload in that platform.   The physical doing with computer ended up taking hours and hours and was extremely frustrating which was a huge turn off. 

 

My 3rd grader niece submitted her handwritten homework as pdf. However parents were expected to use their cellphones as scanners (office lens app was suggested) to upload the completed homework and to have a printer at home to print out the worksheets. DS15’s dual enrollment Japanese homework is mainly handwritten, scanned and uploaded as PDFs. 

When my kids were in public elementary schools, teachers had to ask parents to donate reams of printer paper and the school had a quota of printing/photocopying use per teacher. Parents helped print at home because the quota was insufficient as the only subject with textbook was mathematics.

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10 hours ago, LarlaB said:

It’s awesome that your DH can work from home and stay safer.  And presumably hasn’t had a salary disruption. But that has not been the case for millions of households and remote work will never be an option so it’s unrealistic to keep putting that lens in place in these discussions as a viable option. 

My husband has some ex-colleagues in the tech sector facing unemployment now. It’s not as rosy as the tech stock prices look. He and his colleagues have been going back to office too because fully working from home isn’t working well. 

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Also, I think the notion that there are a bunch of "keep schools closed indefinitely no matter what!" proponents out there is a straw man. I see a lot of people arguing that it may not be smart to open schools yet in areas where the virus is out of control, or that it doesn't make sense to open schools without taking precautuions to stop outbreaks, or that perhaps we should consider prioritizing opening for younger kids over high school or for special needs students first and to devote limited resources to those populations....I haven't seen anyone saying "keep all schools closed until there's no more coronavirus!" Have I missed that? Again, PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO OPEN SCHOOLS. Or are the people arguing in favor of schools reopening on this thread saying it should be done everywhere and without precautions? We simply don't have any precedent for reopening schools in areas where spread is as rampant as it is in much of the US right now. Other countries have done it (with mixed success) but not with the kind of numbers we're seeing here. 

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Crosspost

University of Houston https://uh.edu/news-events/stories/july-2020/07072020ren-coronavirus-filter.php

“Researchers Create Air Filter that Can Kill the Coronavirus

Nickel Foam Filter Catches, Heats and Kills the Virus and other Pathogens

Researchers from the University of Houston, in collaboration with others, have designed a “catch and kill” air filter that can trap the virus responsible for COVID-19, killing it instantly.

Zhifeng Ren, director of the Texas Center for Superconductivity at UH, collaborated with Monzer Hourani, CEO of Medistar, a Houston-based medical real estate development firm, and other researchers to design the filter, which is described in a paper published in Materials Today Physics.

The researchers reported that virus tests at the Galveston National Laboratory found 99.8% of the novel SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was killed in a single pass through a filter made from commercially available nickel foam heated to 200 degrees Centigrade, or about 392 degrees Fahrenheit. It also killed 99.9% of the anthrax spores in testing at the national lab, which is run by the University of Texas Medical Branch.

“This filter could be useful in airports and in airplanes, in office buildings, schools and cruise ships to stop the spread of COVID-19,” said Ren, MD Anderson Chair Professor of Physics at UH and co-corresponding author for the paper. “Its ability to help control the spread of the virus could be very useful for society.” Medistar executives are is also proposing a desk-top model, capable of purifying the air in an office worker’s immediate surroundings, he said.

Ren said the Texas Center for Superconductivity at the University of Houston (TcSUH) was approached by Medistar on March 31, as the pandemic was spreading throughout the United States, for help in developing the concept of a virus-trapping air filter.

Luo Yu of the UH Department of Physics and TcSUH along with Dr. Garrett K. Peel of Medistar and Dr. Faisal Cheema at the UH College of Medicine are co-first authors on the paper.

The researchers knew the virus can remain in the air for about three hours, meaning a filter that could remove it quickly was a viable plan. With businesses reopening, controlling the spread in air conditioned spaces was urgent.

And Medistar knew the virus can’t survive temperatures above 70 degrees Centigrade, about 158 degrees Fahrenheit, so the researchers decided to use a heated filter. By making the filter temperature far hotter – about 200 C – they were able to kill the virus almost instantly.

Ren suggested using nickel foam, saying it met several key requirements: It is porous, allowing the flow of air, and electrically conductive, which allowed it to be heated. It is also flexible.

But nickel foam has low resistivity, making it difficult to raise the temperature high enough to quickly kill the virus. The researchers solved that problem by folding the foam, connecting multiple compartments with electrical wires to increase the resistance high enough to raise the temperature as high as 250 degrees C.

By making the filter electrically heated, rather than heating it from an external source, the researchers said they minimized the amount of heat that escaped from the filter, allowing air conditioning to function with minimal strain.

A prototype was built by a local workshop and first tested at Ren’s lab for the relationship between voltage/current and temperature; it then went to the Galveston lab to be tested for its ability to kill the virus. Ren said it satisfies the requirements for conventional heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) systems.

“This novel biodefense indoor air protection technology offers the first-in-line prevention against environmentally mediated transmission of airborne SARS-CoV-2 and will be on the forefront of technologies available to combat the current pandemic and any future airborne biothreats in indoor environments,"  Cheema said.

Hourani and Peel have called for a phased roll-out of the device, “beginning with high-priority venues, where essential workers are at elevated risk of exposure (particularly schools, hospitals and health care facilities, as well as public transit environs such as airplanes).”

That will both improve safety for frontline workers in essential industries and allow nonessential workers to return to public work spaces, they said.”

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9 hours ago, Terabith said:

The proposal in our district does not provide PPE for anyone in the district.  It relies on parents to take their children's temperatures at home and not send them to school with a fever.  (Ha!)  It does not mandate masks for students.  Most jobs with the public either are high risk but with PPE provided (such as health care workers), or they are in jobs like stores or restaurants, where you have contact with many people, but for short periods of time.  (And often have six feet of distance or plexiglass.)  Our district has said there is no need to keep six feet of distance; 3 feet is fine.  Teachers are in close contact for extended periods of time.  I really can't think of an analogous position.  The closest would be working in an office in a meeting in a room with the same people for seven hours a day, five days a week (elementary) or far more people for meetings of about an hour (middle and high school).  

The big public district here is offering online and full time in person. The hope is that enough people will elect online to allow social distancing in the classrooms. It is highly likely that the Title I schools will be almost 100% back in person, simply because the parents need the kids in school so they can work. Many of these schools regularly had 30+ kids per room. When I taught in one of these schools, I had asthmatic bronchitis yearly and was on medications for asthma year round, and a huge percentage of the kids were asthmatic.   Once I left that job,  I have not had bronchitis or and asthma attack since, so I firmly believe it was due to the building. The bathrooms never had paper towels, toilet paper (I brought rolls in from home and the kids would take them with them to the bathroom, then bring the roll back) or soap. The idea that they will be able to provide PPE-or even hand sanitizer and hand soap for more frequent handwashing-seems very unlikely. The superintendent has gone on record as saying that "Masks should be on everyone's school supply list this fall", because the schools will not be providing them. While they are saying that masks are required, in practice, not allowing kids to go to the classroom without them just means the school will have to keep them somewhere during the day, because a parent probably won't be reachable to pick them up. Sick kids usually end up staying in the room off the office (called the Nurse's office, but it is rare for a school to have nurse, or even a health aide on staff. Usually it's just where bandaids, etc are kept and where there is a cot for a sick child to lie down and rest).

 

I understand WHY this district needs to get kids back into schools. These schools are almost all kids who are considered high risk educationally. And they are. There is no question about that.  But the side effect is that the situation is perfect to make everyone in the building high risk for COVID, too. I would feel a LOT more confident working at Kroger or McDonalds or delivering packages for Amazon or almost any essential worker position than teaching in the classroom I taught in for a decade.

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Would it help to try to compare what seems to actually happen with Covid19 in schools versus other “essential” businesses?   How long businesses were open through pandemic, size of sample etc are important to pay attention to as well.   Deaths are not the only issue, but it is easier to find numbers for deaths than for severe illness. 

 

 

https://www.supermarketnews.com/issues-trends/ufcw-over-11500-grocery-workers-affected-first-100-days-pandemic  (~ 82 deaths amongst ufcw union members apparently)

 

 

Monday, May 11, 2020 ... All but four of the 74 DOE employees who died were based in schools across the city. ... The city health department is releasing COVID-19 cases and the positive test ... Follow ..
Apr 30, 2020 · ... teachers could be more susceptible to severe illness from COVID-19. ... percent of deaths related to the disease in the United States were of .
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jun 8, 2020 · Nearly 600 US health care workers have died of COVID-19 ... Many of the health care workers included here studied physiology and ...

 

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5 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

I understand WHY this district needs to get kids back into schools. These schools are almost all kids who are considered high risk educationally. And they are. There is no question about that.  But the side effect is that the situation is perfect to make everyone in the building high risk for COVID, too. I would feel a LOT more confident working at Kroger or McDonalds or delivering packages for Amazon or almost any essential worker position than teaching in the classroom I taught in for a decade.

I was watching the news about Disney reopening yesterday and thinking about how much safer I'd feel there right now than in a high school in my county (or in just about any Florida county, of course). Umm, not that I would actually go anytime soon. But there's no comparison whatsoever between the safety measures they have in place and the ones they'll have in schools.

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5 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

The big public district here is offering online and full time in person. The hope is that enough people will elect online to allow social distancing in the classrooms. It is highly likely that the Title I schools will be almost 100% back in person, simply because the parents need the kids in school so they can work. Many of these schools regularly had 30+ kids per room. When I taught in one of these schools, I had asthmatic bronchitis yearly and was on medications for asthma year round, and a huge percentage of the kids were asthmatic.   Once I left that job,  I have not had bronchitis or and asthma attack since, so I firmly believe it was due to the building. The bathrooms never had paper towels, toilet paper (I brought rolls in from home and the kids would take them with them to the bathroom, then bring the roll back) or soap. The idea that they will be able to provide PPE-or even hand sanitizer and hand soap for more frequent handwashing-seems very unlikely. The superintendent has gone on record as saying that "Masks should be on everyone's school supply list this fall", because the schools will not be providing them. While they are saying that masks are required, in practice, not allowing kids to go to the classroom without them just means the school will have to keep them somewhere during the day, because a parent probably won't be reachable to pick them up. Sick kids usually end up staying in the room off the office (called the Nurse's office, but it is rare for a school to have nurse, or even a health aide on staff. Usually it's just where bandaids, etc are kept and where there is a cot for a sick child to lie down and rest).

 

I understand WHY this district needs to get kids back into schools. These schools are almost all kids who are considered high risk educationally. And they are. There is no question about that.  But the side effect is that the situation is perfect to make everyone in the building high risk for COVID, too. I would feel a LOT more confident working at Kroger or McDonalds or delivering packages for Amazon or almost any essential worker position than teaching in the classroom I taught in for a decade.

 

I would like to see middle and high school students old enough to be home alone and not special needs working at home, but going in once per week for a half day masked to meet with teachers and or advisor (also masked) and at a physical distance (one on one and/or in small groups)  get and turn in assignments, get help with problems, assessed for if more support needed, etc.   (similar for elementary students who have someone available at home and don’t need to be in school every day) 

And then the space (including gyms, auditoriums, and outdoors) normally used by the middle and high schools to allow the elementary students who need to be at school and teachers to have more physical space to distance. 

I’d also like to see high school students interested in education or who like little kids or needing community service hours and who don’t seem to be high risk or have high risk family to be helping with little kids (masked etc) if possible to give more people to help watch more distanced kids.

I think some beginning of the year arts and crafts projects of making personal masks and face shields would be helpful for students capable of that.   

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And, for classes that need hands on like welding, say, have it meet for a long day to get in a week or two worth of instruction once a week or every other week, with a single unchanging group (masked, distanced etc), not one period each day coming in and going out of rooms. 

Every other week could be good to give a quarantine period between meetings. But weekly is easier to keep track of as a schedule. 

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Another thing I would like to see here is for them to use other buildings. My community center, the recreation center, the performing arts center, the event center that is owned by the city and connected to the library-all have space that could be used for extra classrooms and to spread out children-or maybe they could be drop in centers for kids to come once a week in small groups. One thing I have proposed for the community center, if my suburb takes the same approach as the city, is to have small group weekly socially distanced classes to give kids who are doing virtual school something regular, meeting outside if possible, or taking advantage of some of the bigger rooms we have. 

 

Here, one reason for having all grades come was that a lot of parents and folks who work with teens in the community realized that teens out of school this Spring didn't lead to teens working from home because they were more responsible than the little ones, but teens doing other things. Some ended up providing child care, others ended up working more hours at their prior after school jobs if their jobs were at grocery stores, fast food, etc, and some....well....let's just say they weren't socially distancing. For the most part, school work actually happened more for the younger kids than for the teens, with the exception of those trying to take AP exams, etc. So the feeling was that parents needed the option to elect to have their teens go back, too. 

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12 hours ago, LarlaB said:

I get what you’re saying- I do.  But the bolded is a bit dramatic.  Teachers-  like everyone else- can, have and will choose what they are comfortable doing.   They are not commodities that we force into service.  We lost 60% of our income and an entire small business to COVID so I really feel for those who will suffer financial hardship if they aren’t comfortable or cannot returning to work due to safety concerns. 😞 I get it.  More than most.  I am one of the few on WTM who has been severely affected by COVID. so I’ve earned the right to comment on realities.  Teachers, if they don’t want to teacher can pivot like we have been forced to do, and find another path.

Life, especially now, is far from easy or perfect.  Our ideals are on hold right now. You can stay at home and wait till everything is safer and more contained and I bless you if that is your choice and option.  But there are some of us who really don’t have any options other than to make this work, try to be safe and find a way forward in this awful situation. Because, we have no other choice. 

I would encourage all of us to start digging more into how can we make this work instead of promoting discussions that favor idealism, “catastrophizing”, politicizing.every.single.thing, and ruminating over worst case scenarios.  I’m not saying be reckless and in denial- but respect that life and time goes forward. And we are all living different realities and have varying perspectives so there is not “perfect” option anymore.  Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good!  Time is already going on. It’s been 4 months. We can’t go back and fix or change anything, we can only work from here and try to salvage what we can. 

I feel I have earned the right, having lost our business, tens of thousands of dollars and financial stability, to speak to this from a pretty blunt, base level. YMMV 

I can imagine it is wild to have that contrast play out in front of you.  Another reality is that there are a LOT of people who have been working on what we have celebrated as the “front lines” this entire time!  For months and months.  People knowingly and repeatedly exposed to germs and doing high volume, prolonged contact, public facing roles.    Airline flight attendants, medical personnel, millions of store employees, mass transit, daycares...the list goes on. 

It’s awesome that your DH can work from home and stay safer.  And presumably hasn’t had a salary disruption. But that has not been the case for millions of households and remote work will never be an option so it’s unrealistic to keep putting that lens in place in these discussions as a viable option. 

My experience has been the opposite of yours so it is not weird at all to think of modified school restarting.  Both my husband and my DD16 are now in high contact public facing jobs....literally doing work so that those who choose, can stay hunkered down. God willing, in September  I will be starting a job in a busy office environment.  Not remote. Not Zoom.  Just regular office with precautions in place. New career path for me- YAY!   
 

My thinking is this..... Either masks, social distancing and hygiene related endeavors help us or they don’t. It really seems they do slow down the spread and minimize prolonged, heavy viral load exposure, so I have no problem making responsible living choices in that context.  Sure everyone won’t be compliant but if I’m trying to stay safe and smart, that’s the only thing I can control. 

Looking to the bottom of your post, believe me, I'd be delighted if I thought that all schools would be opening with masks, social distancing, and proper hygiene (and cleaning). When some people describe the plans their districts have, it often sounds very workable. However, you have to realize that there are tons of districts out there which vary greatly in space, money, and parental support. Some of us are concerned that many, many schools will open without these things. 

I think it's hard for some people to imagine the reality of a poor school district. I know that many of our schools are so crowded that physical distancing would be impossible without a huge number of students on distance learning (which they are offering, thank goodness, but we don't yet know how many students will choose it). I think students would have to be reduced by well more than 50%; there is simply no room. They could use the gym, the cafeteria, and the janitor's closet and still not have near enough space. So, proper physical distancing, the most important piece of the puzzle imo, is a challenge for many districts. 

Cleanliness: I am not a school teacher, but I had a 9-weeks contract with two local schools this spring for special classes. I found them noticeably dirty, so much so that I started a thread here asking people how clean/dirty their local schools were. The floors were sticky, the vents were covered in dust, grime, and dirt that was then blown in to the classroom. Right before schools shut down, the cleaning staff mentioned to me that they were going to start wiping down the desks 'a couple of times a week' in direct response to covid. I find it hard to believe schools that start with this are going to be cleaning to anywhere near the recommended guidelines. 

Classrooms are more closed, and contain more people, than most working environments. In one room, we could pry one window open a few inches. Nothing in the other room. I've never worked in an office that had so many people so close together as a classroom, and I've worked in cubicles. Again, reduce by 50%, and this is still going to hold true. 

Hygiene: You can only enforce so much hygiene on younger kids, they're pretty gross, lol. But let's hope they don't contribute much to spread, and look at older students. Assume complete willingness, and it's still difficult for them to wash their hands often or even periodically. There aren't enough sinks, there isn't enough time, there's rarely even soap. Then how, one might ask, are they washing their hands before they eat lunch? They aren't. I'd say the only time high school students around here wash their hands is when they actually go to the bathroom, and even then 4-5 minutes to change classes AND use the bathroom AND wash your hands rarely means a thorough washing. You can hope they find the money to add hand washing stations, that would help, but the math is still difficult. 50% capacity is 500 to 1,000 students washing their hands for two minutes. 

What I find most concerning is the extreme pressures schools are under to open in person, on time, no matter what. Districts are saying that they don't yet see a way to fully and safely open, and they are being ignored. The president is publicly pressuring the CDC to change guidelines and threatening to cut federal funding if schools aren't open (not a power he has, but obviously still pressure). The education secretary is publicly pressuring for "fully open" schools and stating that hybrid plans are a failure. The governor of Florida is ordering schools to open (a power he does not have but again pressure). If the powers that be succeed in bullying districts to open when they know they are not ready, yes, I think that will be a disaster. I hope they all hold strong and are able to make sensible decisions for their own districts. 

Teaching in America is probably the most guilt-ridden profession in the world. Of course they have a choice, but they also are hearing from all directions how much students need school to be open, that irreparable damage will occur to their academics and mental health if they aren't, that parents are desperate for childcare. Of course they still have a choice, but a choice that is further complicated because they have not been paying into Social Security while teaching. It's not like changing jobs in the private sector. 

Again, I am not a teacher with a dog in this hunt. I know there are people who have worked public facing jobs the entire time; my dd is one of them, along with many other family members. 

Why do you think you are one of the few people on the boards to be severely affected by Covid?? I know that there are numerous people who have lost money, had plans derailed, graduated into a pandemic and economic crisis, been unable to see family, and lost loved ones. 

tl;dr: in a nutshell, I think schools reopening with proper measures is a good thing, but many districts are being pressured into reopening even if they can't do that; I think teachers are uniquely guilted if they don't want to return to their jobs; no I'm not a teacher, and yes I have family members who have been working public jobs the entire time; no I'm not saying we should all head to our bunkers for the duration.  

2 hours ago, kokotg said:

Again, the school district my husband works at (which is a huge school district in metro Atlanta) says they will NOT be requiring nor providing masks for students, will NOT be social distancing (how could they if they're not limiting class sizes?), and will NOT be doing temperature checks or testing or any other health screenings. He'll be sitting in an air conditioned room with no openable windows for 50 minutes at a time in close contact with 5 different groups of 25-35 different students throughout the day. Please tell me which other jobs have these same conditions and have stayed open without major outbreaks right now.  

This. People in districts with good plans seem to have a hard time understanding that there are many districts lacking them! Of course more teachers would be less hesitant if they could rely on true social distancing and other protocols. Even then, classrooms are a different setup to almost any other business I can think of. 

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

Also, I think the notion that there are a bunch of "keep schools closed indefinitely no matter what!" proponents out there is a straw man. I see a lot of people arguing that it may not be smart to open schools yet in areas where the virus is out of control, or that it doesn't make sense to open schools without taking precautuions to stop outbreaks, or that perhaps we should consider prioritizing opening for younger kids over high school or for special needs students first and to devote limited resources to those populations....I haven't seen anyone saying "keep all schools closed until there's no more coronavirus!" Have I missed that? Again, PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO OPEN SCHOOLS. Or are the people arguing in favor of schools reopening on this thread saying it should be done everywhere and without precautions? We simply don't have any precedent for reopening schools in areas where spread is as rampant as it is in much of the US right now. Other countries have done it (with mixed success) but not with the kind of numbers we're seeing here. 

QFT 

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21 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

Another thing I would like to see here is for them to use other buildings. My community center, the recreation center, the performing arts center, the event center that is owned by the city and connected to the library-all have space that could be used for extra classrooms and to spread out children-or maybe they could be drop in centers for kids to come once a week in small groups. One thing I have proposed for the community center, if my suburb takes the same approach as the city, is to have small group weekly socially distanced classes to give kids who are doing virtual school something regular, meeting outside if possible, or taking advantage of some of the bigger rooms we have. 

 

Here, one reason for having all grades come was that a lot of parents and folks who work with teens in the community realized that teens out of school this Spring didn't lead to teens working from home because they were more responsible than the little ones, but teens doing other things. Some ended up providing child care, others ended up working more hours at their prior after school jobs if their jobs were at grocery stores, fast food, etc, and some....well....let's just say they weren't socially distancing. For the most part, school work actually happened more for the younger kids than for the teens, with the exception of those trying to take AP exams, etc. So the feeling was that parents needed the option to elect to have their teens go back, too. 

 

I have a teen who was generally resistant to doing public school from home.

He was much more compliant in elementary grade stages homeschooling. 

 

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1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

The bathrooms never had paper towels, toilet paper (I brought rolls in from home and the kids would take them with them to the bathroom, then bring the roll back) or soap. The idea that they will be able to provide PPE-or even hand sanitizer and hand soap for more frequent handwashing-seems very unlikely.  

 

I understand WHY this district needs to get kids back into schools. These schools are almost all kids who are considered high risk educationally. And they are. There is no question about that.  But the side effect is that the situation is perfect to make everyone in the building high risk for COVID, too. I would feel a LOT more confident working at Kroger or McDonalds or delivering packages for Amazon or almost any essential worker position than teaching in the classroom I taught in for a decade.

Quoting because this bears repeating; I think that many people just don't have the experience of schools that routinely lack basic hygiene supplies, but it's a reality for a huge number of students. 

I would also feel safer in almost any other public job! 

 

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I have teacher friends whose school has decided that 4 feet of space between desks is adequate social distancing and that that means measuring from the center of one desk to the center of the next desk.  Coincidentally, that works out to their normal desk spacing!

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Florida just smashed the record for new cases in a day; does anybody know if the governor has said anything about schools specifically in response to this? I haven't been able to find anything yet. 

This is worth noting in particular because Florida is a state that has a governor calling for all schools to be fully open, 5 days a week, along with teachers and schools who are saying that they cannot safely do so yet. 

 

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We decided this weekend that youngest will not be moving into a dorm next month. It would be a single abs they claim they’re doing lots of stuff but we all decided it’s just not worth it. They will have only one class with an in person component and dd will just commute for that (it’s about an hour one way). I just don’t see any way this ends well.

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41 minutes ago, katilac said:

Florida just smashed the record for new cases in a day; does anybody know if the governor has said anything about schools specifically in response to this? I haven't been able to find anything yet. 

This is worth noting in particular because Florida is a state that has a governor calling for all schools to be fully open, 5 days a week, along with teachers and schools who are saying that they cannot safely do so yet. 

 

No, he has not. I'm sure he will say it is just more testing, nothing to worry about. And to be fair, we did a CRAP LOAD of testing, which is a good thing. So positivity rate overall is down to like 11% for yesterday. But we STILL have big lags, still have people struggling to be tested, etc. 

My sister had to be tested and it was going to be 10 working days for results, two weeks. So she stalked the local urgent care for a cancellation opening and got one, same day results, but thats sheer luck. 

And yup, she's NOT happy about the idea of being in a building with 3-4 thousand students in a few weeks, with this kind of spread. But, as others pointed out, she's been paying into a pension that she own't get if she leaves. She's been working toward having her student loans forgiven, if she leaves before that, she's on the hook for 100 percent of it. They accept lower pay for those perks, but those perks tie them to the job. It's like having a percentage of your salary held hostage to keep you there. 

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I teach part time at a private school. I honestly don’t see the risk of going back into the classroom at the high school level to be worth it.  

How good is class instruction going to be if:

1) I as a teacher need to stay 6 feet apart from students? How do I confer with them in the classroom? Do I just stay at the front of the class and lecture and have them flash me some answers on whiteboards? 

2) Students have to stay six feet apart from each other? How do you run an engaging classroom without student collaboration? No groupwork, no discussing with a partner, no hands-on activities?

3) At least in an online classroom I can create breakout rooms for students to work together. Students can share work on the screen and I can spotlight them to give feedback. We can hold a Socratic discussion without masks. I can meet one-on-one with students to walk them through a solution.

I just overall feel like I can be a better teacher via Zoom than I can in a socially distanced classroom... so the increased risk doesn’t make sense to me.

I have a feeling that online teaching in primary and secondary schools is going to make a huge leap forward this year. There are so many creative teachers out there that will be working to make online classrooms as engaging as possible. I’m excited to see what solutions they come up with.

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Quote

My thinking is this..... Either masks, social distancing and hygiene related endeavors help us or they don’t. It really seems they do slow down the spread and minimize prolonged, heavy viral load exposure, so I have no problem making responsible living choices in that context.  Sure everyone won’t be compliant but if I’m trying to stay safe and smart, that’s the only thing I can control. 

 

It is not necessarily An either / or  100% sort of situation.

And schools seem to be in especially bad situation in that overcrowding already exists in many, as well as insufficient sinks, soap and other hygiene stations, and for reasons unclear to me many states or districts seem unwilling to mandate mask use by all who can safely do that.

Medical workers are no doubt at greater risk, but hospitals and medical facilities other than nursing home and similar facilities with many patients who can’t do it, are often more able to have rules like masks need to be worn to enter the facility.

 

 “I am one of the few on WTM who has been severely affected by COVID. so I’ve earned the right to comment on realities.  Teachers, if they don’t want to teacher can pivot like we have been forced to do, and find another path.”

 

As a society, we don’t generally have excess teachers, and especially not excess of older, very capable experienced teachers who may be particularly at risk.  

 

By all means, I think teachers would be well advised to be doing what they can to get as good Personal Protective gear as they can  (not just the type of mask that helps the other people). However, it is still likely to be a lot of exposure, and possibly exposure to people in an age group who tend to be dismissive of dangers and noncompliant (preteens and teens), or incapable of managing clothes well on their own (preK to K), and a history in recent years of kids going to school even when sick, which then means exposure of others for hours and hours—different than typical for business clients, grocery shoppers etc (where exposure to the sick, hopefully masked and distanced) is often substantially shorter in duration.

 

It is not at all that schools and teachers are the only situations like this.  But this is a thread specifically about “Reopening Schools” and many of us have kids who are going to schools and or are teachers, so discussion about teachers, staff, students, etc,  on this thread being about schools’ issues makes sense here.  

 

“Another reality is that there are a LOT of people who have been working on what we have celebrated as the “front lines” this entire time!  For months and months.  People knowingly and repeatedly exposed to germs and doing high volume, prolonged contact, public facing roles.    Airline flight attendants, medical personnel, millions of store employees, mass transit, daycares...the list goes on. “

 

It does not need to be taken as a disrespect for your own problems or those of others. 

This thread is titled as having to do with schools. 

Another thread could be started about other businesses that could also use thought.  

Another thread could be about agricultural and food workers.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, lovelearnandlive said:

I have a feeling that online teaching in primary and secondary schools is going to make a huge leap forward this year. There are so many creative teachers out there that will be working to make online classrooms as engaging as possible. I’m excited to see what solutions they come up with.

Yes! We really can't look at the crisis schooling when schools were abruptly shut down as any kind of indicator. Around here, I know that students and teachers alike went home one day and school was shut without warning and without plans for an alternative. They were absolutely flying by the seat of their pants. Many teachers had never taught online before, much less had the chance to alter their plans from in person to online. Many schools did not have an actual online teaching platform. Even schools that did written packets did not plan on teaching that way, and what they were sending home was what they had access to at the time, and what students could do on their own: practice and review. 

Models for both online and written distance teaching do exist, and schools will do better in August than they did in March. I would implore people to still have patience, because it's still very new to lots of teachers and districts.  

 

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1 hour ago, Danae said:

I have teacher friends whose school has decided that 4 feet of space between desks is adequate social distancing and that that means measuring from the center of one desk to the center of the next desk.  Coincidentally, that works out to their normal desk spacing!

At mine they allow it down to 3 feet (masks required). I have smaller classes this year (randomly, not by design) so this will be more spread out than normal for mine. 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

And, for classes that need hands on like welding, say, have it meet for a long day to get in a week or two worth of instruction once a week or every other week, with a single unchanging group (masked, distanced etc), not one period each day coming in and going out of rooms. 

Every other week could be good to give a quarantine period between meetings. But weekly is easier to keep track of as a schedule. 

I hope this is offered locally--maybe a day or two in person with a fraction of the class vs. every day for 2-3 hours with a full class. We homeschool, but one of my kids is supposed to go to the local votech school just for their carpentry classes. I would really like to know what my son could do for "at home" credit as well because he has a lot of opportunity to do hands-on work at home. They already do their OSHA certifications online at their own pace, and my son is building a shed at home (the first year carpentry students build sheds in lab). I think we'd even be willing to run electric to it if he needs experience with that portion. He'll be reading plans as well as doing the bulk of the work. We've already run into situations where the materials available don't match the plans (shortages due to everyone tackling home projects), so he is learning about what building materials are equivalent. He's also been helping us remodel for years and helping friends with projects as well (potentially more jobs coming up that he can either mask or social distance for). He owns nice tools and knows how to use them. The only real reason I am comtemplating sending him is for the connections they build during the 2nd year of the program where they go to job sites and work for real (if they have done the required pre-requisites).

Incidentally, if he were in welding, I'd be less worried--they wear protective shields, have their labs in solo booths (with limited group time), and their welding booths have clear curtains. None of that is because of COVID. I am not sure how all student welding programs are set up, but it might be one of the more safe options!

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We've had the guidelines from the state and parent surveys we haven't seen the final plan yet.  If school started now it would be virtual because we are still in stage 1. 

If we get to stage 2 schools will be open with social distancing, masks and no mixing of groups.    Which looks like it will happen using a variety of things K12 is already available here free.  The school district is offering another virtual option for people.  They will use some sort of split schedule.  They have also been adding portables our hybrid school got two they expanded our enrollment by a couple hundred.  They will rent out space they have done this before.  They are also looking at using some of the space at the school the scheduled to open next year.  

People don't seem prepared for their not to be things like sports, choir and band but their is really no way to do those safely unless our levels go way down.  Our school is expanding it's private lessons, and other safer music programs like Marimba and Ukulele.  Safer PE options like archery.  

I think it can be done my only worry is community buy in. So much depends not sending sick kids or even more so healthy kids where someone in the home is sick.  

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3 hours ago, Danae said:

I have teacher friends whose school has decided that 4 feet of space between desks is adequate social distancing and that that means measuring from the center of one desk to the center of the next desk.  Coincidentally, that works out to their normal desk spacing!

Apparently our schools have decided 3 ft of spacing is okay.  And I think that's between students, not desks... so, probably also pretty much normal spacing...

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1 hour ago, rebcoola said:

If we get to stage 2 schools will be open with social distancing, masks and no mixing of groups.   

I keep hearing of this as an aspirational goal, which may work for elementary level, but how in heavens will that be working for high school?

Also, just the hallways during class changes in most high schools is going to be no distancing.  At our high school it's shoulder to shoulder.

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25 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I keep hearing of this as an aspirational goal, which may work for elementary level, but how in heavens will that be working for high school?

Also, just the hallways during class changes in most high schools is going to be no distancing.  At our high school it's shoulder to shoulder.

Most SoCal schools have classrooms that open to the outdoors. I do hope they study to see if that makes a difference compared to indoor halls. 

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