WWYD (appt with no mask eye doctor and COVID)

[sbgrace]

There is an optometrist we've been seeing for 12-13 years. I would really like to stay with her, especially because she's doing things to try to slow myopia development in my kids (I have terrible vision, and she's been able to slow them after they appeared to be on track to match me). 

I called today to make an appointment for myself and my teens. I need bifocals desperately. It's very likely my kids need new glasses. 

The office doesn't require masks for patients AND the staff does not mask. This is a small office, with extremely tiny exam rooms. We are typically there for a long time. 

I told the attendant I wasn't very comfortable with that. She told me the doctor would probably wear a mask during our exams if I ask. I made the appointments for first thing in the morning in mid-August and told her to call if the masking policy changes. Then I decided I didn't want that level of risk, and made appointments with a new doctor. Now I'm not sure which to cancel. 

**If you DO have reason to be more cautious about COVID exposure---WWYD? **

A. I could keep the appointments with our old doctor who knows us and our eyes and have us wear masks. I assume I could purchase some that have better protection compared to the homemade cloth ones we have now. Still, long appointment with tiny rooms. Ugh. 

B. I could instead keep the appointments with the other local optometrist who does require masks. I was much more comfortable with their policy. I couldn't get first thing in the morning appointments, but everyone is required to mask. 

Both doctors scheduled us in mid-August. I expect things  in my area to be much worse by then, assuming my governor doesn't mandate masks and we keep on the current trajectory. I'm not sure which appointments to keep.  I'm not even entirely sure which is a lower risk, but I assume it's the afternoon appointments with the mask requiring doctor. 

WWYD? 

Edited July 7, 2020 by sbgrace

[mmasc]

I would stick with my original doctor, due to the eye issues and history of dealing with my family’s specific eye issues. I would also like the fact that the office is small, so you might likely be the only ones in there especially if it’s the first appt of the day. However, I would get better masks if I could and definitely request for the doctor to wear one. Any doctor should accommodate that request with no problem. If it did seem to be a problem, I wouldn’t go there. 

[Harriet Vane]

I have been totally paranoid about covid issues and in pretty strict lockdown.  However, I would stick with the doctor who knows the issues and who you love. Ask for masks and ask to wait outside as much as possible. Bring folding camp chairs to make it easier.

[marbel]

I also would not switch doctors at this point.

 

[katilac]

Appointments back-to-back with same doctor? Is she the only doctor in the office? If so, and you decide to go to her, there is no reason for all of you to sit in the office for a long time. Each person stays in the car or just outside until they are actually needed for the exam. If you think they will fuss about that and want everyone in the waiting room, I'd change the appointments to one person per day (you each go on a different day). 

I don't have reason to be extra cautious with Covid, but I would still be extremely reluctant to go to a doctor who is refusing to implement the mildest of protocols. It would definitely make me think she isn't following other, harder-to-implement protocols either, like increased cleaning of high touch surfaces, all staff washing hands before and after each patient, all the things. If the attendant didn't mention other things when saying they didn't mask, I would have zero faith they were doing them. 

I would absolutely consider the other office to be lower risk.

[bolt.]

I wouldn't go anywhere near a medical professional who wasn't taking covid19 seriously.

A mask won't protect us from that kind of foolishness. I doubt it will still be open by August anyways.

[J-rap]

I'd have your current doctor send all records to the new doctor who actually masks and follows Covid protocol.  Especially now that Covid cases seem to be increasing again in so many areas.

[EKS]

Given the current situation, I would seriously question the medical judgment of a doctor who does not require masks.  I would switch doctors.

[prairiewindmomma]

I would switch. There is no way I am going into an enclosed small room with someone who is not masked right now...

 

[sassenach]

I would absolutely not go into an office full of people who have increased their exposure through bad medical judgement. If that's their behavior in a medical practice, I would not trust their behavior out in the world. It's a risk that I wouldn't be willing to take.

If you do decide to stick with them, wear N95s and ask them to wear a mask while you are in their vicinity.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Eyes are already a possible source of infection (since they are mucous membranes). I would only go to an eye doctor with strong COVID19 protections in place:  masks, sanitizing of medical equipment that touches the eyes or gets close to people’s faces etc. 

[marbel]

Add on question for the OP"

Quote

. It would definitely make me think she isn't following other, harder-to-implement protocols either, like increased cleaning of high touch surfaces, all staff washing hands before and after each patient, all the things. If the attendant didn't mention other things when saying they didn't mask, I would have zero faith they were doing them. 

Do you have reason to believe the office didn't already clean very carefully, wash hands before and after each patient (everyone I come into contact with during my exam washes hands before doing anything with me; the doc washes hands several times during the exam, all this even before covid), etc?   You could ask about these things to help you make your decision.  I would expect that any doctor sanitized all equipment before using it, again, even pre-covid. Do you have reason to think they did not do that, or would stop doing that now?  

Edited July 7, 2020 by marbel

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, sbgrace said:

The office doesn't require masks for patients AND the staff does not mask.

What kind of barbaric state do you live in??? I don't wear masks when at all possible, but I SURE expect someone sticking their face in mine to don a mask. Our state has all employees masked but no general mandate for customers (only local) and I like that. 

If the current eye doc, who has given you good care, is willing to wear a mask, then I would stay with them and wear better masks yourselves. You'll probably be fine. The odds are in your favor that you'll be fine. I wouldn't care about sanitation, because they already have the basics like wiping their machines. You pump gas and do other things. If they agreed to wear masks, then surely they will? I think it's no biggee to stand back a bit from the counter/receptionist. But that eye doc should mask, mercy. They're breathy every day of the week and it's nasty.

I don't know. I get so used to our sensible state that it kind of boggles my mind when some of the states are no masks for high exposure employees. This makes no sense to me. I don't even like the masks and it makes no sense.

Edited July 7, 2020 by PeterPan

[Pen]

Is she something like a developmental optometrist giving exercises to slow progression? Or something else the other one would not be able to do? 

Is there any possibility of going to the other one who masks for anything requiring in person exam like new glasses, but having telemedicine with the current one for eye exercises or that sort of thing?

Can you ask for a copy of your records to be sent to you so that you can take them to anyone as needed?

if you’ve been seeing current optometrist  for years can you send a personal letter saying that you are worried about the no masks policy and request that the policy be reconsidered 

 

Personally, I would see if current would change policies, but if not I would go to new person.  

Edited July 7, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

And if you are going to current optometrist do try to get some better masks for self protection for your family.  

But eyes can also be entry of infection probably, and eyes will be exposed even if your family is masked.  Plus if you are in with each kid that’s a lot of exposure for you—though maybe means fewer unrelated patients likely to be there. 

[Storygirl]

I would be uncomfortable with going to the current eye doctor who is not using masks. I'd worry that there were also other things that she didn't think were important to do, regarding disinfection and cleansing, and I think there is a big risk being in a small room together.

I understand your reluctance to switch, since you have a long-term relationship, but I think I would go to the new person this year. You can always switch back to your original eye doctor next year or when there is a vaccine. In the long run, having a different doctor for one year is not likely to make a huge difference in your kids' vision.

I set up appointments for my kids in August, as well. Even going to our eye doctor, who is taking a lot of precautions, makes me nervous, but their glasses prescriptions need to be updated before school starts, so we will do it. I would have a lot more qualms if the optometrist were not taking protective measures.

[wathe]

What are your state's re-opening standards wrt COVID for medical professionals?  And what are your state's optometrist licensing body's standards wrt COVID?  I'd have a look at those.  They may give you some leverage insist on appropriate PPE and other COVID prevention protocols.  Here (Ontario, Canada), what you describe would not be in compliance and your optometrist would be shut down.

[wathe]

We were at the optometrist last month, within days of re-opening.  We were screened and temped at the door.  One household in the office at a time.  They locked the front door to prevent others from wandering in.  Thorough cleaning between cases (wiping down waiting room chairs, counter-tops, door knobs - beyond the usual cleaning of medical equipment).  Staff were all in medical masks and the optometrist was in an n95 and eye protection.  There was a shield on the slit lamp and the the other equipment that goes up against eyes.  Plexiglass enclosing the reception desk.

[MEmama]

I wouldn’t hesitate to not only switch doctors for this appointment, but I’d fire her indefinitely. And I would let her know why. And I would contact my local health department and report her.

Her behavior is sheer recklessness and a danger to public health. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, sbgrace said:

There is an optometrist we've been seeing for 12-13 years. I would really like to stay with her, especially because she's doing things to try to slow myopia development in my kids (I have terrible vision, and she's been able to slow them after they appeared to be on track to match me). 

I called today to make an appointment for myself and my teens. I need bifocals desperately. It's very likely my kids need new glasses. 

The office doesn't require masks for patients AND the staff does not mask. This is a small office, with extremely tiny exam rooms. We are typically there for a long time. 

I told the attendant I wasn't very comfortable with that. She told me the doctor would probably wear a mask during our exams if I ask. I made the appointments for first thing in the morning in mid-August and told her to call if the masking policy changes. Then I decided I didn't want that level of risk, and made appointments with a new doctor. Now I'm not sure which to cancel. 

**If you DO have reason to be more cautious about COVID exposure---WWYD? **

A. I could keep the appointments with our old doctor who knows us and our eyes and have us wear masks. I assume I could purchase some that have better protection compared to the homemade cloth ones we have now. Still, long appointment with tiny rooms. Ugh. 

B. I could instead keep the appointments with the other local optometrist who does require masks. I was much more comfortable with their policy. I couldn't get first thing in the morning appointments, but everyone is required to mask. 

Both doctors scheduled us in mid-August. I expect things  in my area to be much worse by then, assuming my governor doesn't mandate masks and we keep on the current trajectory. I'm not sure which appointments to keep.  I'm not even entirely sure which is a lower risk, but I assume it's the afternoon appointments with the mask requiring doctor. 

WWYD? 

 

Only “Probably”?

Unacceptable.  

And rest of staff not masking is also a problem. 

I hope visit with other optometrist is first. If so, I’d keep that appointment with the new one. And if it seems like at least acceptable as to getting new glasses etc, cancel the other.  Or postpone the current till September to give time to know that the the new was acceptable. Then cancel with the current person.

[prairiewindmomma]

8 minutes ago, wathe said:

We were at the optometrist last month, within days of re-opening.  We were screened and temped at the door.  One household in the office at a time.  They locked the front door to prevent others from wandering in.  Thorough cleaning between cases (wiping down waiting room chairs, counter-tops, door knobs - beyond the usual cleaning of medical equipment).  Staff were all in medical masks and the optometrist was in an n95 and eye protection.  There was a shield on the slit lamp and the the other equipment that goes up against eyes.  Plexiglass enclosing the reception desk.

This was the set up I experienced when I had my opthamology appointment, except only patients could be in office and one patient was allowed to be in queue. They dropped the overall patient load by 50%, so I briefly was in a waiting room with another person 15 feet away because the visual field room person was late in arriving.

They purposefully cleaned all equipment in front of me so I saw it be cleaned...but I wish they would’ve used patching stickers rather than the pirate eye cover for the visual field portion of my exam. (I have to do visual fields and a retina scan and some other more intense stuff in addition to the normal stuff.)

[Pen]

Also, I would contact your elected representatives offices and Public Health department for your county or state to urge that medical offices need to mask etc for safety. 

[alisoncooks]

9 hours ago, wathe said:

We were at the optometrist last month, within days of re-opening.  We were screened and temped at the door.  One household in the office at a time.  They locked the front door to prevent others from wandering in.  Thorough cleaning between cases (wiping down waiting room chairs, counter-tops, door knobs - beyond the usual cleaning of medical equipment).  Staff were all in medical masks and the optometrist was in an n95 and eye protection.  There was a shield on the slit lamp and the the other equipment that goes up against eyes.  Plexiglass enclosing the reception desk.

Pretty much the same for us. Also, my DDs getting new glasses weren't allowed to touch any. You'd point at the ones you like, have it handed to you to try on, then they take it and set it aside to sanitize. 

It was all very procedural and orderly. 

[NorthwestMom]

That's bananas and there is no way I'd go to a doctor that isn't taking precautions unless I ask. WTH. That's a huge dealbreaker.

[ktgrok]

19 minutes ago, NorthwestMom said:

That's bananas and there is no way I'd go to a doctor that isn't taking precautions unless I ask. WTH. That's a huge dealbreaker.

Yeah..I mean, this is a pandemic, and they think it is just fine to sit with their nose and mouth and eyes INCHES from other people's noses, mouth, and eyes, with no PPE,  all day long, day after day, week after week?!?!?!? If they are that blase about infection control with this, how lax are they about infection control in general???

[Shoeless]

Hard no, friend. Even if you have a great mask, you're walking in to a high risk petri dish. 

My dental office didn't take covid seriously.  They masked for clients but didn't mask around each other.  Aaaaannnnd one of them contracted covid, exposed a bunch of patients, and the whole place has been shut down.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

17 hours ago, sbgrace said:

There is an optometrist we've been seeing for 12-13 years. I would really like to stay with her, especially because she's doing things to try to slow myopia development in my kids (I have terrible vision, and she's been able to slow them after they appeared to be on track to match me). 

I called today to make an appointment for myself and my teens. I need bifocals desperately. It's very likely my kids need new glasses. 

The office doesn't require masks for patients AND the staff does not mask. This is a small office, with extremely tiny exam rooms. We are typically there for a long time. 

I told the attendant I wasn't very comfortable with that. She told me the doctor would probably wear a mask during our exams if I ask. I made the appointments for first thing in the morning in mid-August and told her to call if the masking policy changes. Then I decided I didn't want that level of risk, and made appointments with a new doctor. Now I'm not sure which to cancel. 

**If you DO have reason to be more cautious about COVID exposure---WWYD? **

A. I could keep the appointments with our old doctor who knows us and our eyes and have us wear masks. I assume I could purchase some that have better protection compared to the homemade cloth ones we have now. Still, long appointment with tiny rooms. Ugh. 

B. I could instead keep the appointments with the other local optometrist who does require masks. I was much more comfortable with their policy. I couldn't get first thing in the morning appointments, but everyone is required to mask. 

Both doctors scheduled us in mid-August. I expect things  in my area to be much worse by then, assuming my governor doesn't mandate masks and we keep on the current trajectory. I'm not sure which appointments to keep.  I'm not even entirely sure which is a lower risk, but I assume it's the afternoon appointments with the mask requiring doctor. 

WWYD? 

Given the original whistleblower was an ophthalmologist and there’s some concern that it can be transmitted through eyes I’d be a bit concerned.  Even if they mask the fact that they generally aren’t means higher chance of them having been exposed.