Menu
Jump to content

What's with the ads?

Dotwithaperiod

International Students & On-Line Semester

Recommended Posts

28 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

So the students have to ensure they find a university that isn't entirely online, but the US gov't also needs to confirm and issue visas by August 4. So if the gov't is slow issuing the visas and students don't receive them by Aug 4, those students who would otherwise be allowed to remain will still be guilty of being in the US without a visa and will be subject to deportation. Can the US process that many visas in just 4 weeks? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

This is for existing International Students. My belief from reading the email to UNC International Students is that the school will need to issue a new I-20 for the students. The students already have their Visas.  The students will not seem to be involved in paperwork with the U.S. Government. If I understand, the U.S. Government will get a new I-20 for the students, and the I-20 is issued by the school.

" Must be issued a new I-20 by the University by August 4th that confirms..."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

This is for existing International Students. My belief from reading the email to UNC International Students is that the school will need to issue a new I-20 for the students. The students already have their Visas.  The students will not seem to be involved in paperwork with the U.S. Government. If I understand, the U.S. Government will get a new I-20 for the students, and the I-20 is issued by the school.

" Must be issued a new I-20 by the University by August 4th that confirms..."

 

Lanny - the problem for schools like your and my dds that are planning for hybrid is not with an upfront Visa for the fall semester. It's about what happens if Coronavirus spikes once all the kids,are back together and the university is forced to all-online mid-semester. From the same UNC email you pasted:

 If, in the future, the University moves to all-online instruction , per SEVP guidance, F-1 students must then depart the United States or transfer to another school offering in-person classes

And of course it's impossible to transfer mid-semester,  and for many kids impossible to leave the country - within 10 days!  And then would have to forfeit the semester, the tuition,  the credits, and may not ever be issued a new visa or be able to complete their degrees.

Of course, the new rules are an upfront problem for schools like Harvard and the U of CA schools that have plans to be fully online.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I"m glad Harvard and MIT moved quickly.  MANY students at my son's university are affected and very scared of this. Especially as numbers are already rising especially in young people in this college town.  Incredibly cruel policy.   

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how these visas work, but what does this imply?

"Since the University is offering a hybrid instruction model, a student cannot maintain his or her F-1 visa status while enrolled in online courses while residing abroad. In this instance, ISSS will need to terminate the student’s F-1 SEVIS record. Additional information about this process will be provided in a future email."

Were students who left the country in March able to maintain their visa status to return to the US once the school reopened?  Now, if the school offers some online classes but the student cannot make it back for the fall semester because of lack of flights (or because none of their particular courses are offered in-person), will that student have to start over with a process that would have been avoided if the university remained ALL online for the fall?  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I don't know how these visas work, but what does this imply?

"Since the University is offering a hybrid instruction model, a student cannot maintain his or her F-1 visa status while enrolled in online courses while residing abroad. In this instance, ISSS will need to terminate the student’s F-1 SEVIS record. Additional information about this process will be provided in a future email."

Were students who left the country in March able to maintain their visa status to return to the US once the school reopened?  Now, if the school offers some online classes but the student cannot make it back for the fall semester because of lack of flights (or because none of their particular courses are offered in-person), will that student have to start over with a process that would have been avoided if the university remained ALL online for the fall?  

To the bolded, yes, there was some kind of waiver allowed for the spring and summer semesters for classes allowed to be remote and online.

To the part in blue -  If the school has a hybrid model, they take at least one class in-person, and the person can make it back to the US, their visa is still valid.

If the school is all online, it doesn't matter where the student is, on campus (like freshmen at Harvard) or in their home country, or living somewhere in an apartment, they cannot take all their classes online.  So if the school is all online, no international students can take classes there with this ruling - that doesn't solve the problem but exacerbate it (at least with this stupid new rule).  But yes, it does also punish people who would like to continue their degree from their home country (if, for example, the time difference isn't too bad and their country has Covid much better under control).  But if your school goes all-online, you basically can't continue your classes or your degree, whether that's now or mid-semester.   And you have to leave the country within 10 days.

Edited by Matryoshka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

To the bolded, yes, there was some kind of waiver allowed for the spring and summer semesters for classes allowed to be remote and online.

To the part in blue -  If the school has a hybrid model, they take at least one class in-person, and the person can make it back to the US, their visa is still valid.

If the school is all online, it doesn't matter where the student is, on campus (like freshmen at Harvard) or in their home country, or living somewhere in an apartment, they cannot take all their classes online.  So if the school is all online, no international students can take classes there with this ruling - that doesn't solve the problem but exacerbate it (at least with this stupid new rule).  But yes, it does also punish people who would like to continue their degree from their home country (if, for example, the time difference isn't too bad and their country has Covid much better under control).  But if your school goes all-online, you basically can't continue your classes or your degree, whether that's now or mid-semester.   And you have to leave the country within 10 days.

No I am more confused... So if a university offers ONLY online courses, a student from Country X cannot remain in Country X and take classes?  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

No I am more confused... So if a university offers ONLY online courses, a student from Country X cannot remain in Country X and take classes?  

I guess technically that is allowed, but a vast number of international students are from Asia, which is about 12 hours off from here. Ask Lewelma how it was going for her kid who was taking all his classes in the middle of the night. There's a reason they're willing to send him all the way back to the US to live when NZ is pretty much Covid free, even if instruction is online. 

Another huge number are already living here, have leases, jobs, can't just head on back home, where they may or may not have a place to live or a way to support themselves.  My dd's gf has been living here for years.

And then if you are outside the US for more than some number of weeks, your Visa is also revoked and you can't get back in (this,was also waived in the spring/summer, I believe).  

There are also students like music majors, or grad students doing research, who may have classes online, but need access to labs or practice spaces, or other things that are not just classes. 

Edited by Matryoshka
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wilrunner said:

So the students have to ensure they find a university that isn't entirely online, but the US gov't also needs to confirm and issue visas by August 4. So if the gov't is slow issuing the visas and students don't receive them by Aug 4, those students who would otherwise be allowed to remain will still be guilty of being in the US without a visa and will be subject to deportation. Can the US process that many visas in just 4 weeks? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

The current International Students have Visas issued by the U.S. Government (Department of State). They don't need new Visas...

My understanding, from reading the email Carolina sent to the International Students yesterday, is that the schools (UNC in this case) will need to issue a new Form I-20 to the International Students by August 4th. Apparently the U.S. Government receives a copy of that, either electronically or on paper.

The risk for the International Students (at UNC or other schools where they are not planning to begin with 100% Online courses for the Fall 2020 semester) is that if the COVID-19 situation becomes much worse, during the Fall 2020 semester and UNC (or any other school) then goes from in-person classes or Hybrid classes to 100% Online classes, then the International Students are in trouble.   (The roommate of my DD is an International Student and she is contemplating going home to her Passport country)

I read today that two schools (Harvard and M.I.T.) that have announced they will be 100% Online for the Fall 2020 semester have filed, or will file, a lawsuit about this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I don't know how these visas work, but what does this imply?

"Since the University is offering a hybrid instruction model, a student cannot maintain his or her F-1 visa status while enrolled in online courses while residing abroad. In this instance, ISSS will need to terminate the student’s F-1 SEVIS record. Additional information about this process will be provided in a future email."

Were students who left the country in March able to maintain their visa status to return to the US once the school reopened?  Now, if the school offers some online classes but the student cannot make it back for the fall semester because of lack of flights (or because none of their particular courses are offered in-person), will that student have to start over with a process that would have been avoided if the university remained ALL online for the fall?  

 

My understanding is that normally, International Students on an F-1 Visa can take a maximum of one (1) Online course, along with their in-person courses. COVID-19 turned that upside down during the Spring 2020 semester. Apparently then the government relaxed the normal regulations/laws and permitted more Online courses. Now, apparently, the government is planning to revert to the normal regulations/laws.  The law prohibits International Students from taking 100% Online courses which is an enormous problem for students in schools where they are planning to be 100% Online when the Fall 2020 semester begins. I think Harvard and M.I.T. and the UC schools have all announced that they will be 100% Online when the Fall 2020 semester begins?

The roommate of DD is an International Student and she has been "SIP" (Sheltering in Place) with DD since March when Carolina went from in-person courses to Online courses. I am guessing (but I try not to assume) that if an International Student went home in March 2020 and that they are now preparing to return to the USA for the Fall 2020 semester, that their Student Visas are still valid. However, if their school is planning to begin the Fall 2020 semester 100% Online then the Student would need a new form I-20, which their school would not be able to issue. Then, the student would need to find another school  and transfer, or something else (stop studying?), which is a gigantic problem for the International Students in the USA now or those who will be there soon.

If the International Students return to their Passport country and take all Online courses from their current college/university, the school would not be able to issue an I-20 form and that would, I believe, result in the Student Visa not being valid.  If a school like UNC begins the Fall 2020 semester and then COVID-19 is much worse and they go to 100% Online, then, the International Students have a bad issue facing them.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

No I am more confused... So if a university offers ONLY online courses, a student from Country X cannot remain in Country X and take classes?  

 

They can take Online courses in their Passport country, but they will not have a Student Visa, because their school would not be able to issue an I-20 Form for someone  who is not attending on/near the campus and is only taking Online courses. My belief is that if the students don't have a valid I-20 form, their Student Visa is not valid,  They cannot only take Online courses and have a Student Visa and study in the USA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JennyD said:

Harvard and MIT have filed a lawsuit seeking an injunction against these new rules.

The legal basis for the lawsuit is that the ICE rules violate the Administrative Procedure Act's prohibition on "arbitrary and capricious" agency action.  These are the same grounds on which the Trump administration lost its Supreme Court cases on DACA and the census.  Other administrations generally win about 70% of these kinds of cases, but this administration has lost around 90%, even with a increasingly conservative federal judiciary.

So, good chance that the injunction will be granted.

My ds is on the MIT international student page, and they are freaking out.  This ruling came out the day that MIT announced their plans and the day after Harvard announced their plans.  So now, if these universities want to protect their students and the lawsuit fails, they have to get them all on campus and with some sort of 'required' in-person class.  MIT has 10% internationals, that is a lot of students to get sorted in 6 weeks. 

  • Like 3
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a number of international students who stayed in Boston in apartments over the summer so they could go to university in the fall. Flights are expensive, so it is not like they fly home every summer; plus they were doing undergraduate research.  These students, many who are friends of my ds, have already signed 12 month leases for the upcoming year. They now must break their leases and leave because MIT is only offering in-person classes for the seniors and only for the hands-on type courses. The timing is tight. Classes start in 6 weeks and now their visas are void. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, lewelma said:

There are a number of international students who stayed in Boston in apartments over the summer so they could go to university in the fall. Flights are expensive, so it is not like they fly home every summer; plus they were doing undergraduate research.  These students, many who are friends of my ds, have already signed 12 month leases for the upcoming year. They now must break their leases and leave because MIT is only offering in-person classes for the seniors and only for the hands-on type courses. The timing is tight. Classes start in 6 weeks and now their visas are void. 

Exactly. My dd's gf had a coop job here this summer that was part of her degree. She just signed a 12-month lease last month. 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read 1 or 2 articles last night on my phone. The Cal State schools (and also some CCs?) have filed a lawsuit and apparently UC is  preparing to file a lawsuit.

After granting a Waiver during the Spring 2020 semester because of Covid-19, what the government is planning to do now is revert to what the law/regulations say to do.  To me, it seems that they might decide to have another Waiver like the one that was implemented in March 2020 for the Covid-19 pandemic. If they don't do another Waiver, then the Congress would need to change the law/regulations. The International students are in deep stuff with this, which is sad and probably many of them won't be in the USA for the Fall 2020 semester.

This will be interesting as it proceeds through the court system. There are probably hundreds of thousands of International students in the U.S.A., normally, possibly one million students, and many of those schools are dependent upon International students financially and have large percentages of their students who are International students.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2020 at 2:43 PM, lewelma said:

My ds is on the MIT international student page, and they are freaking out.  This ruling came out the day that MIT announced their plans and the day after Harvard announced their plans.  So now, if these universities want to protect their students and the lawsuit fails, they have to get them all on campus and with some sort of 'required' in-person class.  MIT has 10% internationals, that is a lot of students to get sorted in 6 weeks. 

 

On 7/8/2020 at 9:07 AM, Matryoshka said:

And of course it's impossible to transfer mid-semester,  and for many kids impossible to leave the country - within 10 days!  And then would have to forfeit the semester, the tuition,  the credits, and may not ever be issued a new visa or be able to complete their degrees.

There was a proposal in california to enroll all international students in a PE-like class held outdoors which will be student led (they are confident that they can pull off this workaround) so that all of them are signed up for an in-person class which is low risk, social-distanced and held outside. This plan might work if all classes go online for these universities. But, there are opponents of this proposal already (no surprises there!). I live in an area with a high number of H1-B tech workers, almost all of them converted their student visas to H1-B's and are facing the exact same problem. They have leases, jobs, kids in local schools, vehicles and lives that they have to abandon to take a non-existing flight back to their country of birth which is not allowing international flights in and pick up their lives from there. They are also highly educated (a lot of them with terminal degrees in their filed) and valued friends of mine who are very well paid (which translates to very high federal and state taxes) because of the field of work they are in. How is kicking all of them out justified when they actually enrich this country's coffers with their talent and work?

Scoring brownie points with the anti-immigration crowd is the flavor of the day in America. (I don't want to shut this thread down with politics, so, I withhold more commentary).

Edited by mathnerd
  • Like 2
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

 

There was a proposal in california to enroll all international students in an outside PE-like class which will be student led (they are confident that they can pull off this workaround) so that all of them are signed up for an in-person class which is low risk, social-distanced and held outside. This plan might work if all classes go online for these universities. But, there are opponents of this proposal already (no surprises there!). I live in an area with a high number of H1-B tech workers, almost all of them converted their student visas to H1-B's and are facing the exact same problem. They have leases, jobs, kids in local schools, vehicles and lives that they have to abandon to take a non-existing flight back to their country of birth which is not allowing international flights in and pick up their lives from there. They are also highly educated (a lot of them with terminal degrees in their filed) and valued friends of mine who are very well paid (which translates to very high federal and state taxes) because of the field of work they are in. How is kicking all of them out justified when they actually enrich this country's coffers with their talent and work?

Scoring brownie points with the anti-immigration crowd is the flavor of the day in America. (I don't want to shut this thread down with politics, so, I withhold more commentary).

Another facet is that a lot of these 'international' kids have grown up here in America, gone to high school, even elementary.  Their parents live here.  If they have to leave the country, where exactly do they go to live?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, perkybunch said:

https://www.kristv.com/tamuk-leader-reacts-to-new-international-student-requirement

I know this is a small school, but this is their approach to the situation.

 

My understanding of the laws/regulations that apply is that International Students are permitted to take a maximum of one (1) Online course during a semester. So, if they take one (1) in-person course and they are taking the rest of their courses as "Online" courses, that seems to put them in a bad place and the schools cannot issue the I-20 form to those students.

If the government would change their position on this, and implement a new Waiver, for the Fall 2020 semester, as they did during the Spring 2020 semester after the Covid-19 crisis caused so many schools to go from in-person to "Online" or "Hybrid" during March  2020, that would help a lot of International Students.

The Spring 2020 semester was in-progress and that first waiver worked well.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the lawsuits and the workarounds that some schools and some students are looking at. 

I suspect this may go to the U.S. Supreme Court soon, because it affects so many people. They are here on Non-Immigrant Visas which have certain laws/regulations that go along with that, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lanny said:

My understanding of the laws/regulations that apply is that International Students are permitted to take a maximum of one (1) Online course during a semester. So, if they take one (1) in-person course and they are taking the rest of their courses as "Online" courses, that seems to put them in a bad place and the schools cannot issue the I-20 form to those students.

If the government would change their position on this, and implement a new Waiver, for the Fall 2020 semester, as they did during the Spring 2020 semester after the Covid-19 crisis caused so many schools to go from in-person to "Online" or "Hybrid" during March  2020, that would help a lot of International Students.

The Spring 2020 semester was in-progress and that first waiver worked well.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the lawsuits and the workarounds that some schools and some students are looking at. 

I suspect this may go to the U.S. Supreme Court soon, because it affects so many people. They are here on Non-Immigrant Visas which have certain laws/regulations that go along with that, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Intl students are currently allowed to take more than the normal one on-line class if the the school is adopting a hybrid model for the fall. That's mentioned clearly in the new regs.

The problem is if the school is planning on, or shifts to, all online. It seems that if at least one class is in-person, they're good (although the wording is maddeningly vague...so???).

Unless things change, which of course is not just possible but likely. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came here looking for a thread like this to vent. My oldest is 13 and both my kids were born here. But this is the story of DH and me.

I came here almost 20 years ago as a graduate student. My first time away from my family, my first time on a plane ever. It was scary but I wanted this so much I was willing to push into the unknown.

My heart is just hurting for these students because I know how much you yearn for something like this, the years you prepare, the sacrifices your family makes, the time and energy invested. I used to leave home at 5:30 am to go for extra classes for years just to prepare for it. I took exams, stayed up late, got up early, studied, studied, studied with only that as a primary motivation and single focus no guarantee of a visa. I know so many students whose visa got rejected even if they got admission here. The day I got my visa is one of the best days of my life because it changed the trajectory of my life. Even if I had decided to go back my American degree would have opened doors anywhere in the world.

It is so hard being an international student because you come without family support, to a country and culture where everything is new and you have to study and figure out how to live life as an adult and in a new country at the same time. It basically made me an adult.

These students don't deserve this becoming a political football. In the midst of COVID they need to feel safe, when their home countries have borders closed, even transit countries how and where will they go. It is so unfair and I have so much to say except it will be political and will cause me to be banned. I am glad schools and states are suing. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Intl students are currently allowed to take more than the normal one on-line class if the the school is adopting a hybrid model for the fall. That's mentioned clearly in the new regs.

The problem is if the school is planning on, or shifts to, all online. It seems that if at least one class is in-person, they're good (although the wording is maddeningly vague...so???).

Unless things change, which of course is not just possible but likely. 

 

My understanding is that the Waiver that was issued (March 2020?) during the Spring 2020 semester is no longer in force. If that is true, that would mean that the current laws/regulations that were written by the Congress (Immigration Laws for Non-Immigrant Visas for International Students) are applicable. My belief (understanding at this time) is that the current laws/regulations for Student Visas permit a maximum of one (1) Online  course during a semester?   From what you wrote, it looks like there may be another proposal from the government that permits "Hybrid" courses and a maximum of one (1) "Online" course?  

There are so many students affected, in addition to so many colleges and universities that are financially dependent upon their International Students, that I believe this may go to the U.S. Supreme Court, for an emergency decision, since the Fall 2020 semester will be starting in a few weeks, in many schools.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Lanny said:

My understanding is that the Waiver that was issued (March 2020?) during the Spring 2020 semester is no longer in force. If that is true, that would mean that the current laws/regulations that were written by the Congress (Immigration Laws for Non-Immigrant Visas for International Students) are applicable. My belief (understanding at this time) is that the current laws/regulations for Student Visas permit a maximum of one (1) Online  course during a semester?   From what you wrote, it looks like there may be another proposal from the government that permits "Hybrid" courses and a maximum of one (1) "Online" course?  

There are so many students affected, in addition to so many colleges and universities that are financially dependent upon their International Students, that I believe this may go to the U.S. Supreme Court, for an emergency decision, since the Fall 2020 semester will be starting in a few weeks, in many schools.

Lanny, I encourage you to read the actual ruling, which is linked upthread, but here it is again.  I am ver,y, very angry about this ruling, and hope it is overturned posthaste, but no sense in making it even worse than it already is. 

"Hybrid model" is a new thing that's come up specifically as some schools' response to how to open safely during the pandemic, so this part was never part of the immigration law you mentioned, which already did allow for just one online course per semester.  Basically, the hybrid model has most classes online, with some limited classes, labs or some other things in-person.

The school actually has to certify that the student is taking a minimum (not maximum) number of online credits - enough credits to finish their degree in time - but also certify that not their entire course load is online.  The infuriating thing is that it mentions nowhere how much of the course load has to be in-person -  one credit?  three?.  People can't write.

This is what it says about hybrid model schools (all bolding mine):

  1. Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools adopting a hybrid model—that is, a mixture of online and in person classes—will be allowed to take more than one class or three credit hours online. These schools must certify to SEVP, through the Form I-20, “Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status,” certifying that the program is not entirely online, that the student is not taking an entirely online course load this semester, and that the student is taking the minimum number of online classes required to make normal progress in their degree program. The above exemptions do not apply to F-1 students in English language training programs or M-1 students pursing vocational degrees, who are not permitted to enroll in any online courses.
Edited by Matryoshka
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is just so tight.  MIT has purposely left space on campus for students to petition for family hardship or poor home learning environment. And obviously this counts, but it was not what the university was anticipating when developing their housing policy.  MIT wants only on-campus residents to take on-campus classes to reduce influx from the community. But now, with only 6 weeks to go, it is going to be very hard to get all 400 international undergrads on campus, and to find in-person classes for them.  Just way way too tight. 

  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Lanny, I encourage you to read the actual ruling, which is linked upthread, but here it is again.  I am ver,y, very angry about this ruling, and hope it is overturned posthaste, but no sense in making it even worse than it already is. 

"Hybrid model" is a new thing that's come up specifically as some schools' response to how to open safely during the pandemic, so this part was never part of the immigration law you mentioned, which already did allow for just one online course per semester.  Basically, the hybrid model has most classes online, with some limited classes, labs or some other things in-person.

The school actually has to certify that the student is taking a minimum (not maximum) number of online credits - enough credits to finish their degree in time - but also certify that not their entire course load is online.  The infuriating thing is that it mentions nowhere how much of the course load has to be in-person -  one credit?  three?.  People can't write.

This is what it says about hybrid model schools (all bolding mine):

  1. Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools adopting a hybrid model—that is, a mixture of online and in person classes—will be allowed to take more than one class or three credit hours online. These schools must certify to SEVP, through the Form I-20, “Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status,” certifying that the program is not entirely online, that the student is not taking an entirely online course load this semester, and that the student is taking the minimum number of online classes required to make normal progress in their degree program. The above exemptions do not apply to F-1 students in English language training programs or M-1 students pursing vocational degrees, who are not permitted to enroll in any online courses.

What makes things more confusing is that the term "hybrid" is not being used consistently; at many universities I have seen the term "hybrid" is being used to refer to a type of instruction in a particular class rather than a model of having some classes on-line and some in-person.  I taught a class this summer that was considered "hybrid" although it was all on-line because of the the mix of synchronous and asynchronous components.  

Hasn't it been that before this international students were only allowed to take one class online?  In that sense this allows international students to take more online that under standard rules.  (I am not saying that in defense of this policy--I think it is a horrible and causing nightmares for many people)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

What makes things more confusing is that the term "hybrid" is not being used consistently; at many universities I have seen the term "hybrid" is being used to refer to a type of instruction in a particular class rather than a model of having some classes on-line and some in-person.  I taught a class this summer that was considered "hybrid" although it was all on-line because of the the mix of synchronous and asynchronous components.  

Hasn't it been that before this international students were only allowed to take one class online?  In that sense this allows international students to take more online that under standard rules.  (I am not saying that in defense of this policy--I think it is a horrible and causing nightmares for many people)

Yes.  Even now, if the school is has not announced any kind of change to their normal practices, and things are for the most part in-person, on-campus, the one online class rule stands.  From the same ruling: 

Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools operating under normal in-person classes are bound by existing federal regulations. Eligible F students may take a maximum of one class or three credit hours online.

So, basically, the kids who are at schools who are still planning on 'normal' operations, or those who have made changes to make much work virtual but still offer some on-campus, in-person classes, can come here (or stay here) and be fine.  Until there is virus spread, the university is forced to go all-online like in March, and then they have 10 days to leave the country - flights, living situations, or anything else be damned.  How do you even plan for that?  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I work at a small university, and some if our international students who made it out in the Spring can’t make it back for fall, either because their countries or their families feel like it would be the equivalent of sending a kid into Italy last March. They are scheduling fully online from home, so many of us are planning asynchronous as much as we can. 

We have a lot of multi-generational students who have attended from Saudi Arabia, and some of them came in last week for fall b/c they could get a flight and were afraid they wouldn’t later. 

We’re very much business as usual for fall, although we do have space caps for classrooms.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

<snip>

Hasn't it been that before this international students were only allowed to take one class online?  In that sense this allows international students to take more online that under standard rules.  (I am not saying that in defense of this policy--I think it is a horrible and causing nightmares for many people)

 

Yes. My understanding of the laws/regulations for International Students is that they are only allowed to take one Online class during a semester. 

And that because of the crisis with Covid-19 during the Spring 2020 semester, they issued a Waiver, allowing  far more flexibility, because of the mid-semester crisis, when the colleges and universities went to "Online" and  told the students not to come back to campus after Spring Break.    That was for the Spring 2020 semester and possibly also for Summer school sessions during 2020. That did not include the Fall 2020 semester.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

It has been reversed !!!!!!! So happy for the students who would not be disrupted now. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/politics/immigration-harvard-visa-policy-online-only/index.html

I will refrain from commentary and will only say this was not at all necessary. 

 

 

+ 1

I came to post this link: 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-administration-rule-foreign-students-online-classes

DDs roommate is an International Student and she was contemplating going home. I sent this link to DD. Hopefully her roommate will stay at UNC.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Things are looking better, @Matryoshka 🙂 

It sounded outright stupid to make foreign students enroll in a student-led PE class in order to work around visa issues. Glad that people do not have to invent hacks to the visa system in order to get an education that they are paying a high price for.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not (normally) post something from NPR, but someone posted this link in the sub Reddit for UNC (which I read but don't post in) and let's assume that it is true and accurate. It says that at this time, 12% of colleges and universities are planning to be Online only fo the Fall 2020 semester.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/24/895223219/ice-confirms-new-foreign-students-cant-take-online-only-course-loads-in-the-u-s

I personally believe that the U.S.  government looked the other way and waived U.S. law about the regulations for the International Students who were present at their schools in the USA,  when the Covid-19 Coronavirus hit the wall during March 2020.

This clarification seems to me to be them not waiving the U.S. law for new International Students who would be Freshmen in the Fall 2020 semester, if their college/university is among the 12% that have announced they will be Online only when they begin the semester.

If the Administration and the Congress want to expand what is being done for the International Students they will need to change the existing U.S. laws that are applicable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how new (or renewing) international students currently overseas will get their visas.. maybe it's different in other countries, our embassy here has been at limited capacity for months and has stopped all "routine visa services." So unless you had a valid one already, I don't know how you would get one. The only services the embassy is currently taking appointments for are emergency passport issues.

 

Edited by Kate in Arabia
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2020 at 7:43 AM, Kate in Arabia said:

I'm not sure how new (or renewing) international students currently overseas will get their visas.. maybe it's different in other countries, our embassy here has been at limited capacity for months and has stopped all "routine visa services." So unless you had a valid one already, I don't know how you would get one. The only services the embassy is currently taking appointments for are emergency passport issues.

 


what a nightmare 😞 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2020 at 10:43 AM, Kate in Arabia said:

I'm not sure how new (or renewing) international students currently overseas will get their visas.. maybe it's different in other countries, our embassy here has been at limited capacity for months and has stopped all "routine visa services." So unless you had a valid one already, I don't know how you would get one. The only services the embassy is currently taking appointments for are emergency passport issues.

 

 

It's the same here in Colombia. The Visa section in the U.S. Embassy is closed. The ACS is only open for people who need an emergency passport and for other emergencies.

I hope the Visa section will be able to open in 2021, if not later this year.

The DD of friends is interested in being an International student. I am researching that for her. I don't believe it would be possible for her to begin earlier than the Fall 2021 semester and am probably going to suggest "Online" courses, directly from a university or via Coursera, or, going to a school here in Colombia. She would probably need to pay the full price as an International Student and that's a lot of money. I don't think there would be any problem for someone to be admitted as an International Student now, but the finances...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/30/2020 at 7:46 AM, Lanny said:

 

It's the same here in Colombia. The Visa section in the U.S. Embassy is closed. The ACS is only open for people who need an emergency passport and for other emergencies.

I hope the Visa section will be able to open in 2021, if not later this year.

The DD of friends is interested in being an International student. I am researching that for her. I don't believe it would be possible for her to begin earlier than the Fall 2021 semester and am probably going to suggest "Online" courses, directly from a university or via Coursera, or, going to a school here in Colombia. She would probably need to pay the full price as an International Student and that's a lot of money. I don't think there would be any problem for someone to be admitted as an International Student now, but the finances...  

She might consider community colleges; most have been planning for online since May (so it shouldn't be half-assed-together classes like it was in spring) and even full tuition is usually not that bad.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/30/2020 at 3:46 PM, Lanny said:

The DD of friends is interested in being an International student. I am researching that for her. I don't believe it would be possible for her to begin earlier than the Fall 2021 semester and am probably going to suggest "Online" courses, directly from a university or via Coursera, or, going to a school here in Colombia. She would probably need to pay the full price as an International Student and that's a lot of money. I don't think there would be any problem for someone to be admitted as an International Student now, but the finances...  

I don't know if you have similar programs where you are, my oldest went to the equivalent of a community college here in Dubai for two years after he graduated from high school.. it's set up as a US transfer program, so you take the introductory/survey/core courses that are typically required at US universities freshman and sophomore years, then can transfer to the US (or elsewhere) to finish.  It was a lot cheaper, and he was able to still work towards the ultimate goal of finishing in the US. Downside is there wasn't the breadth of courses you would find at a larger university, but he did finish and successfully transfer nearly all of the first two years of university requirements. Additionally, the credits were transferrable to other countries as well, in the event he changed his mind 😉

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Kate in Arabia: Thank  you for that!  Very interesting idea.  I am not familiar with that here, but I have suggested they go to the English language school she attended and pay for appointments, regarding being an International student. They do that all day and are "experts" at that.  Possibly there is a school like you described here and if so that would be a great way for her to go. Thanks again!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Lanny said:

@Kate in Arabia: Thank  you for that!  Very interesting idea.  I am not familiar with that here, but I have suggested they go to the English language school she attended and pay for appointments, regarding being an International student. They do that all day and are "experts" at that.  Possibly there is a school like you described here and if so that would be a great way for her to go. Thanks again!

I have a feeling there's a program like that in Dubai to encourage the Ultra Rich Full Pay kids there to go to a US University.  NYU has made it even easier for those kids by having full 4yr offshore campuses in Dubai and Shanghai.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

I have a feeling there's a program like that in Dubai to encourage the Ultra Rich Full Pay kids there to go to a US University.  NYU has made it even easier for those kids by having full 4yr offshore campuses in Dubai and Shanghai.

There are for sure satellite campuses and the like here.. this particular school is a college that offers businesses courses you can take full-time or part-time/at night, and this university transfer program. It is a lot cheaper, we paid nearly the same for an entire semester of full-time courses at this college that we paid for ds to audit one course (chemistry and physics with lab, in different years respectively) at the American University here while he was still homeschooling high school.

American College of Dubai

The link mentions partner schools they have in the US and other countries. DS did not go to one of those, he is at a public university in my home state, but the credit transfer process was straightforward, and the college was helpful in providing the required paperwork and course documentation.

Edited by Kate in Arabia
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 2 year schools-not only do many happily take international students, but often have on campus housing for them. My daughter's CC only has one dorm, and It is reserved for students from more than 250 miles away. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...