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21 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Part of the problem is the so called science. Lile yes to hydroxychloroquine then no and no again yes.  Nontoxic masks then yes.  You get it fro surfaces and no you don't.

The CDC and some other science groups have been part of the problem 


“Science” never said yes to hydroxychloroquine. A few specific scientists made some waves when they came out promoting this miracle cure  to the media, but many other scientists came out within a few days urging caution and questioning that conclusion. 
With a brand new virus, it takes time to sort out how exactly it transmits, how it works in the body, what treatments actually prove effective (or not). It’s not realistic to expect that everything will be known by everyone up front. And some individual scientists will be foolish in their statements, which is why it’s so important to wait for a consensus to be able to form. 

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7 hours ago, Kanin said:

Seriously?!?! I'd have to move.

 

We do plan to move, far, far away from here. I always knew that people here were a little "quirky" with some of their beliefs, but I can't do this anymore.  The homeschool families here are full of conspiracy theorists promoting dangerous ideas, (the Fauci one and then there's one where they say that George Floyd was murdered by the Democratic party to make Trump look bad OR Mr. Floyd isn't actually dead, but he's in witness protection and the whole thing was staged to make Trump look bad).  There are suddenly a lot of Q Anon people here. 

It's bad enough that I'm moving toward supporting homeschool regulations, and seriously considering states with high levels of regulation, because maybe people won't be quite so nuts there?  Maybe? 

Like, it's bad here, which is a shame.  There are about 10 or 12 small things that I really, really love about living here, but handling of the pandemic takes all those tiny things I like and makes them meaningless. 

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My dss23’s MIL posted this. Her comment said ‘this is why the numbers are rising.’  Most of you probably immediately realized this was doctored up to appear like it is discussing the test when it is actually discussing the antibody test. I and a couple more people pointed this out. She took it down. 

1BDC0509-F747-49AB-83FE-82457659BF59.png

Edited by Scarlett
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7 hours ago, sassenach said:

Huh. All the engineers in my life (and I have more than the average bear, I think) are prolific readers. 
 

The loudest people on FB are my anti-vax homeschool mom friends, unfortunately. The ones that sell oils and rely on homeopathy for all their needs. One in particular can turn absolutely anything into a government conspiracy. The national coin shortage is us moving to an all-digital, global currency so they can track all of our spending, by the way. 
 

ETA: I didn’t finish my thought. All these women are huge readers, so I don’t know if that’s the issue. I think it’s more that their information source is 100% these conspiracy loops. I also think (getting CC here) that there’s almost some level of spiritual warfare involved here. Like, they are steeped in deception and can’t dig themselves out of that way of thinking. I haven’t completely fleshed out those thoughts but it’s something I’ve been pondering recently. Like one mom in particular hands out homeopathic medical advice left and right online like she’s some sage practitioner. But IRL the health of both herself and her kids has always been a disaster. She’s not anyone I would ever go to for health advice based on actually observing her family. But she’s also really kind and loving and I actually like her a lot. It’s all hard to reconcile. 

 

 

The loudest people in my fb feed (until I unfriended and blocked them) were the homeschool moms.  They were all into homeopathy, anti-vaxx, CBD oil, Plandemic, conspiracy theories, home births, gun rights, anti-big businesses, ant-medicine and "Big Pharma".  They grow and can all their own food, make their own soaps and essential oils, and drink unpasteurized milk and eat unpasteurized cheese. They also all LOVE Acellus for homeschooling, which by default makes me super suspicious of Acellus. 

This type of thinking has intensified over the last few years. When I first met these women, they were kinda kooky but still seemed somewhat grounded.  It feels like there has been a concerted effort by many of them to distance themselves from "regular" society over the last few years. Many of them have never left the state, and a few have never been out of this county.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

 

The loudest people in my fb feed (until I unfriended and blocked them) were the homeschool moms.  They were all into homeopathy, anti-vaxx, CBD oil, Plandemic, conspiracy theories, home births, gun rights, anti-big businesses, ant-medicine and "Big Pharma".  They grow and can all their own food, make their own soaps and essential oils, and drink unpasteurized milk and eat unpasteurized cheese. They also all LOVE Acellus for homeschooling, which by default makes me super suspicious of Acellus. 

This type of thinking has intensified over the last few years. When I first met these women, they were kinda kooky but still seemed somewhat grounded.  It feels like there has been a concerted effort by many of them to distance themselves from "regular" society over the last few years. Many of them have never left the state, and a few have never been out of this county.  

 

 

I'm surprised people who are that "crunchy" would be so all over an online option for homeschooling.  I would expect more living books from that crowd.  

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2 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

I'm surprised people who are that "crunchy" would be so all over an online option for homeschooling.  I would expect more living books from that crowd.  

 

Right?  I can't figure out why online school from this provider is ok, but every other form of "Big Brother" peering into their lives is not. It makes me very wary of the provider since it has such enthusiastic support of this crowd. 

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10 hours ago, sassenach said:

national coin shortage

😮😕?!???  Guess I should be grateful not to have heard some of these ideas.

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

This type of thinking has intensified over the last few years. When I first met these women, they were kinda kooky but still seemed somewhat grounded.  It feels like there has been a concerted effort by many of them to distance themselves from "regular" society over the last few years.

This is disturbing.

Editing to add the quote below was from MissLemon's post. The Glitch got me.

28 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

They were all into homeopathy, anti-vaxx, CBD oil, Plandemic, conspiracy theories, home births, gun rights, anti-big businesses, ant-medicine and "Big Pharma".  They grow and can all their own food, make their own soaps and essential oils, and drink unpasteurized milk and eat unpasteurized cheese.

These seem like very...defensive...postures. In isolation, some seem reasonable and healthy, like growing your own food. But together, you're right, they suggest people are defining themselves in opposition to mainstream society.

Increasingly, I do not like this moment in history. It feels like the center is not holding.

Edited by Innisfree
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8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Wait - the company has a person who is currently positive, contagious, and kept him coming in to work?????

I was mistaken-a man was exposed and the company gave him a mask. He later became sick, as did a couple more coworkers and they are awaiting test results.

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I actually have heard about the coin shortage from some non insane sources.  It makes sense, if bank lobbies are closed, people aren't going to be going in with their big coin jars.  Stuff like that adds up.  

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1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

😮😕?!???  Guess I should be grateful not to have heard some of these ideas.

This is disturbing.

Editing to add the quote below was from MissLemon's post. The Glitch got me.

These seem like very...defensive...postures. In isolation, some seem reasonable and healthy, like growing your own food. But together, you're right, they suggest people are defining themselves in opposition to mainstream society.

Increasingly, I do not like this moment in history. It feels like the center is not holding.

 

It is very defensive. There's a Waco-like feel to it.  And yes, it's the combination of those things that makes me uneasy and wanting to leave. 

For whatever reassurance it gives, this is a very small segment of the population here.  

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24 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I actually have heard about the coin shortage from some non insane sources.  It makes sense, if bank lobbies are closed, people aren't going to be going in with their big coin jars.  Stuff like that adds up.  

 

I mean, but there's still coinstar machines. If people aren't going to the supermarket OR the banks then they're probably not spending cash money after all and doing most things with the card, so....

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4 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

Right?  I can't figure out why online school from this provider is ok, but every other form of "Big Brother" peering into their lives is not. It makes me very wary of the provider since it has such enthusiastic support of this crowd. 

Because all their other ventures take a lot of time and this way the kids are independent enough that mom can be canning food etc while the kids work alone. That's my guess at least

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3 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

I mean, but there's still coinstar machines. If people aren't going to the supermarket OR the banks then they're probably not spending cash money after all and doing most things with the card, so....

Very few people are using cash in the UK at the moment Anyone who has a bank account is using contactless payment where possible.

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16 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Like, it's bad here, which is a shame.  There are about 10 or 12 small things that I really, really love about living here, but handling of the pandemic takes all those tiny things I like and makes them meaningless. 

I'm sorry. That's really hard. Out of curiosity, where do you want to go? 🙂

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11 hours ago, Terabith said:

I actually have heard about the coin shortage from some non insane sources.  It makes sense, if bank lobbies are closed, people aren't going to be going in with their big coin jars.  Stuff like that adds up.  

Yes, I looked it up afterward and found the rational explanations. The mint was closed for a good stretch and the normal circulation of coins through commerce got gummed up with the shut downs. 

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18 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:


“Science” never said yes to hydroxychloroquine. A few specific scientists made some waves when they came out promoting this miracle cure  to the media, but many other scientists came out within a few days urging caution and questioning that conclusion. 
With a brand new virus, it takes time to sort out how exactly it transmits, how it works in the body, what treatments actually prove effective (or not). It’s not realistic to expect that everything will be known by everyone up front. And some individual scientists will be foolish in their statements, which is why it’s so important to wait for a consensus to be able to form. 

Riffing off your post, not arguing with you...If anything, I would think all of this would make people more aware that science, in and of itself, isn't a thing to be believed or disbelieved. It is a process; an observation of things in a set point in time in certain conditions. It isn't static and isn't dependent on consensus or anything like that. It is a field of study where people find new observations and information all.the.time. A lot of the time even the results we do find are not causal or even able to be replicated. The absolute frenetic pace with which covid is being studied shows us how much things can change dramatically from one observation to the next. It is exposing the fact that almost every area of study is subject to so many different factors.

People make decisions with the best information we have at the time. Science gives us information that we have to decide what to do with. Science isn't what we believe in or don't believe in, scientists aren't infallible or somehow able to take study results and then suddenly able to know what to do with it when you're dealing with global economies and populations.

Take all this science coming out and add several layers of global, national, local, and even individual politics. Add in differing economic and social issues. Add in personal bias, areas of expertise, and even tiny errors that can be made.

Now consider that all those things also come into play when determining which studies and papers and data are even done in the first place, and with covid, a lot of what is being done is throwing everything up against a wall and seeing what sticks.

It isn't as simple as just believing science or coming to consensus and I'm not a plandemic anti-vax denier by any stretch.

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44 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Riffing off your post, not arguing with you...If anything, I would think all of this would make people more aware that science, in and of itself, isn't a thing to be believed or disbelieved. It is a process; an observation of things in a set point in time in certain conditions. It isn't static and isn't dependent on consensus or anything like that. It is a field of study where people find new observations and information all.the.time. A lot of the time even the results we do find are not causal or even able to be replicated. The absolute frenetic pace with which covid is being studied shows us how much things can change dramatically from one observation to the next. It is exposing the fact that almost every area of study is subject to so many different factors.

People make decisions with the best information we have at the time. Science gives us information that we have to decide what to do with. Science isn't what we believe in or don't believe in, scientists aren't infallible or somehow able to take study results and then suddenly able to know what to do with it when you're dealing with global economies and populations.

Take all this science coming out and add several layers of global, national, local, and even individual politics. Add in differing economic and social issues. Add in personal bias, areas of expertise, and even tiny errors that can be made.

Now consider that all those things also come into play when determining which studies and papers and data are even done in the first place, and with covid, a lot of what is being done is throwing everything up against a wall and seeing what sticks.

It isn't as simple as just believing science or coming to consensus and I'm not a plandemic anti-vax denier by any stretch.

But, those I see who seem to think the science isn't clear on say, masks, or spread, are not basing that on studies/evidence. They are basing it on facebook memes and blog posts. Now, often those blog posts link to several studies...but as soon as you click on the study you see it says the opposite of what the blogger claimed it said. 

Or people linking to studies but not actually reading them, just the title, and not realizing what they show. The best example is that one that supposedly show cloth masks were worse than no mask...except if you read the study, the control group wore masks. They had two people in the control group that didn't, so they excluded them from the results. So no, the "science" doesnt' show masks were worse than no mask. But people were sharing that study over and over and over again (one person linked it twice, as if it was two different studies, because it was found on two different websites!). 

I'm happy to look at evidence for various points of view, but that's not what I'm seeing. When I ask for evidence I get memes, blog posts, and studies that say the opposite of the point the person is trying to prove. 

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1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

Speaking of studies, here's one on the importance of randomized controlled trials.

We don't want to urge people to take protective measures unless we know they work, right?

Ok, did they seriously riff off Pride and Prejudice? "It is a truth universally acknowledged that a medical intervention justified by observational data must be in want of verification through a randomised controlled trial."

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Yeah, lots of people pull that line out for funzies in studies and legal opinions and all sorts of places. It's fun to catch it in the wild!

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/25/538609475/the-enduring-legacy-of-jane-austens-truth-universally-acknowledged

https://electricliterature.com/why-do-so-many-judges-cite-jane-austen-in-legal-decisions/

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