If placed in quarantine...? Work? Leave? Or what

[Hilltopmom]

I’m just curious about this. I’m a public school teacher & already brought this up to our union, but they don’t know yet.

I know al jobs are different but I’m still wondering.

If a person is placed in quarantine by the health dept for coming in close contact with a Covid positive person, what are the legal options for that person to take the time off from work? Assume they don’t get sick but can’t work in person due to quarantine. It wouldn’t be sick leave, right? Disability?- you usually have to use your sick leave first but you wouldn’t be disabled, not really.

I think this is going to come up a lot this year in classrooms everywhere. When one of my students tests positive, and I get quarantined (cause we are all breathing the same air all day in upstate NY all day in winter, mask or not, droplets are airborne)- how does that time out of work happen?

Yes I could still work remote, sort of, but someone needs to be in my room with my students unless they’re all quarantined too- perhaps they would be. 
it’s going to be an interesting year

Edited June 23, 2020 by Hilltopmom

[MEmama]

I *think* there’s guaranteed 8 weeks off or something, but that might only apply to my state. 
 

When I was placed under 2 week quarantine by my son's doctor because he had symptoms of Covid, my boss threatened to fire me if “I refused to go to work”. Rather than fighting it out, or letting him fire me and go on unemployment, I quit. The conditions were untenable. 
 

If you have the protections of a union, I would think their policies would be clear? I think you are right that this year is going to be a disaster.

[Ottakee]

This is a tough one, esp. as some teachers have 4-5-6 or more weeks of banked sick time but they might get quarantined NOT because they are sick but because someone they came into contact with was sick.  It doesn't seem right that they should burn up their sick time when they aren't sick, but just not allowed to work.

My own dd got sent home from work for 72 hours because the touchless forehead thermometer read high when she got to work....101.5.  She took her temp with 3 other thermometers that all read normal.  Talked to a doctor.  She had NO symptoms except that hot forehead test....after riding bundled up on a bus with heavy bangs on her forehead.   That meant though that she lost her pay for those days off as she can't get unemployment or sick time, etc.   I can see that happening more and more as those thermometers are not always accurate, esp. for someone who gets sweaty but does NOT have a fever.

[Hilltopmom]

Thanks Medicmom. Yep, NY.
that sucks

this was my first year with this district so I have barely any days to use & with 3 kids in public school I need them all!

Edited June 23, 2020 by Hilltopmom

[Laura Corin]

In the UK you get sick pay, but can choose to take leave instead if you wish

'Employees in self-isolation are entitled to Statutory Sick Pay for every day they are in isolation, as long as they meet the eligibility conditions.'

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-test-and-trace-workplace-guidance

 

[ScoutTN]

36 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

This is a tough one, esp. as some teachers have 4-5-6 or more weeks of banked sick time but they might get quarantined NOT because they are sick but because someone they came into contact with was sick.  It doesn't seem right that they should burn up their sick time when they aren't sick, but just not allowed to work.

My own dd got sent home from work for 72 hours because the touchless forehead thermometer read high when she got to work....101.5.  She took her temp with 3 other thermometers that all read normal.  Talked to a doctor.  She had NO symptoms except that hot forehead test....after riding bundled up on a bus with heavy bangs on her forehead.   That meant though that she lost her pay for those days off as she can't get unemployment or sick time, etc.   I can see that happening more and more as those thermometers are not always accurate, esp. for someone who gets sweaty but does NOT have a fever.

touchless thermometers are not very accurate! I threw ours away because it was so bad.

[Arcadia]

My husband is currently working from home until at least October according to his location specific company memo. If he needs to quarantine when they are back in office, he can use family sick leave to work from home.  That was what he used to accompany me to most of my medical appointments, he still have to work.

His company doesn’t have a limit for personal sick leave since they still have their work “sitting there” until they are back at work. They do have someone else to cover/take over for long term sick leave or long vacation leave. 

[Ottakee]

12 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

touchless thermometers are not very accurate! I threw ours away because it was so bad.

But these are likely what schools and workplaces will be using as their health screening process.  I can see a lot of problems with this.  I am ALL for people with fevers staying home.  It is the false readings that worry me.

[ScoutTN]

6 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

But these are likely what schools and workplaces will be using as their health screening process.  I can see a lot of problems with this.  I am ALL for people with fevers staying home.  It is the false readings that worry me.

Plus, some peoplel get the Oxygen drop without a fever...

[madteaparty]

Well it seems that if the teachers' union have their way, there will be no full time in person school in NY this fall. I have no dogs in the fight but other countries seem to have managed it.

[Ottakee]

36 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I was going through our GS meeting regulations and touchless are specifically recommended.  Which obviously, for GS....eh....no one's losing money.  But for workplaces....that could be a thing.  

Or in schools if a child has a false high reading and then a parent or other caregiver has to come and get the child and stay home with them for 72 hours .   That can be very difficult for single parents and lower wage earners.

Obviously if they are sick we need people to stay home, I am just worried about the false high readings.  It would be nice if high readings were then double checked in 5 minutes with a reliable oral thermometer, etc.

[Hilltopmom]

31 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

Well it seems that if the teachers' union have their way, there will be no full time in person school in NY this fall. I have no dogs in the fight but other countries seem to have managed it.

teachers are not against in person instruction in the fall- in fact, we realize that remote learning did not work for the majority of our students and they would benefit from being in the building with us. However, teachers & school staff do want safety protocols in place before returning  and the choice to not return if it’s not safe for staff and their families.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Hilltopmom

[Robin M]

You are supposed to be covered for that two week period of quarantine time according to the Department of labor and received your regular rate of pay. 

Quote

 

Qualifying Reasons for Leave:

Under the FFCRA, an employee qualifies for paid sick time if the employee is unable to work (or unable to telework) due to a need for leave because the employee:

is subject to a Federal, State, or local quarantine or isolation order related to COVID-19;
has been advised by a health care provider to self-quarantine related to COVID-19;
is experiencing COVID-19 symptoms and is seeking a medical diagnosis;
is caring for an individual subject to an order described in (1) or self-quarantine as described in (2);
is caring for a child whose school or place of care is closed (or child care provider is unavailable) for reasons related to COVID-19; or
is experiencing any other substantially-similar condition specified by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, in consultation with the Secretaries of Labor and Treasury.

 

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pandemic/ffcra-employee-paid-leave

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/benefits/pages/irs-and-dol-unveil-employer-tax-credits-for-covid-related-leaves.aspx

The employer gets tax credits to reimburse for that time period so it isn't totally out of pocket and they end up on the losing end. 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Robin M
added one more thing. done now. :)

[Tap]

2 hours ago, Ottakee said:

This is a tough one, esp. as some teachers have 4-5-6 or more weeks of banked sick time but they might get quarantined NOT because they are sick but because someone they came into contact with was sick.  It doesn't seem right that they should burn up their sick time when they aren't sick, but just not allowed to work.

My own dd got sent home from work for 72 hours because the touchless forehead thermometer read high when she got to work....101.5.  She took her temp with 3 other thermometers that all read normal.  Talked to a doctor.  She had NO symptoms except that hot forehead test....after riding bundled up on a bus with heavy bangs on her forehead.   That meant though that she lost her pay for those days off as she can't get unemployment or sick time, etc.   I can see that happening more and more as those thermometers are not always accurate, esp. for someone who gets sweaty but does NOT have a fever.

My employer and at least one hospital in our area, will let the person sit for 5-10 minutes and then get retested. If she continues to work for the same place, she might ask them to consider a revision in the future to allow for this option.  

[Robin M]

46 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I do wonder how all of this works if a temp runs high multiple times.  There are plenty of reasons for a fever that aren't covid, so I am wondering if sending people home for *every* fever is going to become a thing.

 

And then, if you have kids that run fevers (which they do for like everything), how does that work?  18 month old has a fever because he's teething, so he can't go to daycare...mom has to stay home.  Then after the kid finally cuts his teeth, mom goes back to work for a day, and then the baby's older brother gets a fever with some 24 hr thing, also can't go to daycare....dad has to stay home.  I mean, in winter months, fevers can bounce around families like blowing a feather around.  It doesn't mean anyone is really sick, but if low grade fever means an automatic day (or two or three or seven) off....that could really start to impact attendance of families, especially single parents, etc etc.  I am not sure how long that sort of thing can be sustainable for either families or for the businesses that have to keep paying people.  

All great questions. I think it's going to depend on the employer or day care's discretion and have to be handled on a case by case basis. Some may be more draconian than others which will put parents in a bind. Or the business, school, daycare, will have to set up private rooms for the kids to be placed just in case they may actually be ill versus just teething or a 24 hour thing. Others will be sensible, know its a kid thing and not worry about it.   

[Hilltopmom]

50 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I do wonder how all of this works if a temp runs high multiple times.  There are plenty of reasons for a fever that aren't covid, so I am wondering if sending people home for *every* fever is going to become a thing.

 

And then, if you have kids that run fevers (which they do for like everything), how does that work?  18 month old has a fever because he's teething, so he can't go to daycare...mom has to stay home.  Then after the kid finally cuts his teeth, mom goes back to work for a day, and then the baby's older brother gets a fever with some 24 hr thing, also can't go to daycare....dad has to stay home.  I mean, in winter months, fevers can bounce around families like blowing a feather around.  It doesn't mean anyone is really sick, but if low grade fever means an automatic day (or two or three or seven) off....that could really start to impact attendance of families, especially single parents, etc etc.  I am not sure how long that sort of thing can be sustainable for either families or for the businesses that have to keep paying people.  

Kids with fevers are already not supposed to be at school or daycare. And yes, that means for every short sickness too, someone needs to take a day off work.

[Tap]

5 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I do wonder how all of this works if a temp runs high multiple times.  There are plenty of reasons for a fever that aren't covid, so I am wondering if sending people home for *every* fever is going to become a thing.

 

And then, if you have kids that run fevers (which they do for like everything), how does that work?  18 month old has a fever because he's teething, so he can't go to daycare...mom has to stay home.  Then after the kid finally cuts his teeth, mom goes back to work for a day, and then the baby's older brother gets a fever with some 24 hr thing, also can't go to daycare....dad has to stay home.  I mean, in winter months, fevers can bounce around families like blowing a feather around.  It doesn't mean anyone is really sick, but if low grade fever means an automatic day (or two or three or seven) off....that could really start to impact attendance of families, especially single parents, etc etc.  I am not sure how long that sort of thing can be sustainable for either families or for the businesses that have to keep paying people.  

I have had kids in day cares for 26 years. Yep, it is going to suck. One thing I am really hopeful for though, is that if day cares really do stay up on the "don't return till fever and all signs of illness are gone for 48-72h without medication" (what most are doing in our area) , that there will be fewer illnesses going around.  I also think that commercial centers will be stricter, and there may be some pop-up 'sick day day cares' that are for when kids are sick, but not too sick. There was a day care in my old town that catered to children with illness like Chicken pox that were contagious but the child wasn't so sick that mom/dad needed to be home with them. Each child was isolated and there were strict protocols of when parents got called to pick them up. 

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I do wonder how all of this works if a temp runs high multiple times.  There are plenty of reasons for a fever that aren't covid, so I am wondering if sending people home for *every* fever is going to become a thing.

 

And then, if you have kids that run fevers (which they do for like everything), how does that work?  18 month old has a fever because he's teething, so he can't go to daycare...mom has to stay home.  Then after the kid finally cuts his teeth, mom goes back to work for a day, and then the baby's older brother gets a fever with some 24 hr thing, also can't go to daycare....dad has to stay home.  I mean, in winter months, fevers can bounce around families like blowing a feather around.  It doesn't mean anyone is really sick, but if low grade fever means an automatic day (or two or three or seven) off....that could really start to impact attendance of families, especially single parents, etc etc.  I am not sure how long that sort of thing can be sustainable for either families or for the businesses that have to keep paying people.  

Isn’t that already the case?! Are you saying kids with known fevers should be at daycare or school??

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Well...........yes and no.  Have your kids never run a fever while teething?  Or dealing with allergies?  Neither teething nor allergies are contagious.

 

Obviously kids who are sick with something contagious should be kept home.  I think you know that I already agree with that.  The problem is that not all kids fevers are due to a contagious illness.  Teething, allergies, on a particular med, overdressed for the drive to daycare, etc etc.....I have no problem with kids who are warm in the morning for those reasons, especially if those kids are otherwise fine (or in the case of teething, probably fussy but both fever and fussiness relieved by a bit of baby advil) being at daycare or school.  

But how would one know it was allergies and not illness? Stuffy/runny nose plus fever - no, that kid needs to be home in case it isn’t allergies, etc. 

[Ottakee]

6 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

 

People who are known to be sick....with whatever.....should stay home.  That's a given.  But at some point, we have to recognize that not everyone with "symptoms" is actually sick, and that we are going to have to admit that things like temp checks aren't as clear and objective as we want them to be, and that, in turn, is going to have detrimental effects....especially for those who can least afford such detrimental effects.  

This is a huge issue for people who are just barely making it.   Many new jobs in our area have a ZERO tolerance for absence for 3-6 months.....meaning if you miss a day, for any reason, don't come back as you no longer have a job.   Also, a day or 2 less pay might mean a car payment can't be made fully, or a car repair not done, etc.....which can quickly lead to loss of a job, etc.

Most of the time these parents do care deeply for their kids but they know that if they miss work things will very quickly spiral out of control.   Leaving a mildly sick 10 year old home alone might lead to a protective services call.

All of this just continues to show that we need so e policy change and a better safety net for those that are works ng but still struggling to survive.

[ktgrok]

 

14 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

 

People who are known to be sick....with whatever.....should stay home.  That's a given.  But at some point, we have to recognize that not everyone with "symptoms" is actually sick, and that we are going to have to admit that things like temp checks aren't as clear and objective as we want them to be, and that, in turn, is going to have detrimental effects....especially for those who can least afford such detrimental effects.  

And it would be actually very very feasible to pass laws protecting people so they can stay home with their kid. But we don't. Instead we say "well, nothing we can do about it" and send sick kids to infect others. (and adults for that matter)

And until there is a way to know which person with symptoms is sick and which isn't, yeah, people with symptoms need to stay home. We CAN do this as a country. People in power just don't care enough to do it. Which is a disgrace. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

It's not about "just don't care enough."

There are very real implications to working environments when people have to stay home often.  If a parent has to be calling off of work multiple times a month, because their kid is legit sick and can't be at daycare, that can have a real world impact on a business.  I mean it's great to talk about "attendance policies" but there comes a point where people not showing up to work IS a problem.  I have been both the single parent that has to call off......and the person who fills in for multiple call offs.  My sister owned a cake for years....I don't even know how many Friday nights she spent at her shop for hours, finishing up a wedding cake, because one of her 3 employees called off.  And that would often be with her son laying in the office watching VHS tapes while her DH was also working OT at work.  

My point is.....

There really is a balance.  And we have to be really careful about our policies so that we don't create discrimination against parents, and especially discrimination against single parents.  

right, but then we fix that problem as best we can, because if they are sending kids to school sick, that is getting other kids sick, and then their parents have to take off work, etc. I'd wager there are more working hours lost because kids go to school when sick, infecting others, than if everyone actually kept their kid home when ill.