Do you know of a racially-diverse children’s Bible?

[Ginevra]

I’m partially wondering if there is one. I don’t have much reason to own one at the moment, but if I want to buy one in the future, like for a grandkid, I would be looking for this. 

There is a series of artist’s renderings depicting Biblical characters as POC, which is certainly much more likely than some of the illustrations present in the average children’s Bible. Curious about this, I dug out the children’s Bibles we have here and found that, though some were more racially accurate than others, there was still little to no representation of truly dark-skinned people. For example, one Bible, which was a baby board book given to us at our youngest’s dedication ceremony, is the worst offender, with a blonde-haired Eve, and literally every character drawn as a white person. We also have an Usborne children’s Bible stories, which has cartoon-like illustrations, but those do indicate varied hair textures and skin colors (though nobody with a dark brown skin tone). Overall, though, this Bible has better racial diversity than others and there are no illustrations that look like Nordic-type characteristics. 

I’m curious if there is a children’s Bible with really outstanding racially-diverse depictions, in the event I have occasion to buy one. I have not bought a children’s Bible in several years, but it hadn’t entered my awareness yet about this issue. 

[fairfarmhand]

I’m listening in! I want one too!

[ktgrok]

yes!!! The Children of God Storybook Bible by Bishop Desmond Tutu!! It's fantastic! I love this children's bible because he has every story focus on God's love...so in the story where Adam and Eve are kicked out of the Garden of Eden he adds a line reassuring the children  that even after they left, God still loved and cared for them. Really important point to make with small kids! There is an audiobook too, read by Archbishop Tutu himself, but although I LOVED it, my kids struggled to understand his accent.  https://amzn.to/30Z93bH

Creating the first truly global Bible for children of all nationalities, Desmond Tutu retells more than fifty of his most beloved Bible stories, artfully highlighting God’s desire for people of every color and every background to love one another and to find peace and forgiveness in their hearts.

The Children of God Storybook Bible represents a marked achievement in portraying the diverse peoples of the Bible and connecting Scripture with the multitude of ethnicities across the globe who seek to know and love God’s Word. Many of the finest artists from around the world—such as Jago, E.B. Lewis, Javaka Steptoe, and Xiao Xin—have been selected to illustrate these stories, infusing each one with the style and richness of their own culture.

The stunning, full-color illustrations found throughout the Children of God Storybook Bible allow readers to experience the Bible stories as if they were there, with Adam and Eve in the garden, with Noah on the ark, with Abraham in the desert, and with Jesus on the mountaintop.

As Desmond Tutu says: “In the spirit of celebrating children all over the world, each illustrator in this book has been invited to draw on their own unique and rich cultural heritage in their portrayal of these Biblical stories. Their art is truly a marvelous reflection of how we are all made in God’s image.”

Edited June 21, 2020 by Ktgrok

[Guest]

Wow, Katie! Thanks! I said I have no present occasion to buy one but I want this Bible! 

[MercyA]

I teach K-2 Sunday School and own at least 15 or so children's Bibles and many other Bible storybooks. Some are better than others, but none are truly racially diverse.

Katie, thanks so much for posting Bishop Tutu's Bible! One of my hesitations about that one is that the stories are all illustrated by different artists. In the Last Supper story, for example, everyone is black (or so says the reviews). It might be a little confusing for younger children if one is reading it straight through. And some of theology (again, basing this on reviews) looks a little iffy for conservative Christians. I'd still like to add it to my collection, though, and use it selectively.

Side note for anyone who teaches kids: At times I have resorted to printing my own story cards with art from freebibleimages.com. Many of the illustrations there depict a Jesus with dark hair and slightly darker skin--to me he still looks white. Two of my kids actually told me "that doesn't look like Jesus. Jesus is white." 😳 I am trying to fix that misconception. The site also has a very nice series of photographs from the Lumo project, shot in Middle East with Middle Eastern people. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by MercyA

[Ottakee]

Such an important thing.  White people, and especially those of us in the US often portray Christ as white.  We need racially accurate Bibles and other books for kids 

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Ottakee said:

Such an important thing.  White people, and especially those of us in the US often portray Christ as white.  We need racially accurate Bibles and other books for kids 

 

It's been a long time since I've looked seen the whole book, but from the sample pages this seems to be racially accurate - which is not to say diverse - the people look like they are from the Middle East (though I don't really love the cartoonish illustrations myself):  The Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-Jones     https://www.sallylloyd-jones.com/books/jesus-storybook-bible/

I see the appeal of both this one and the one Katie linked, for sure.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Wow, Katie! Thanks! I said I have no present occasion to buy one but I want this Bible! 

I love it! And I think if you buy it, you get a CD as well as a bonus - maybe that was if you bought straight from the publisher? I know somehow I got a deal on both. And although the kids don't love the audio, I love it - his great joy for life, and his great love, just pour through the speakers. It's really nice, if you don't feel embarrassed listening to a kids bible, lol. 

Also, FYI, if looking for a Christian perspective on race issues going on now, the creator of Veggie Tales and What's In The Bible has an amazing podcast called The Holy Post with the last two episodes centering on that, and also made a video about racism that was very well done. Really well done. In the podcast he talked about how he himself was unaware of much of the racial history of this country and the issues facing people of color now until his church had a demographic change, and he started worshipping with people of different races, etc. (He also has a show for kids called The Mr. Phil Show, and some others, that look at historical figures. )

 

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

It's got Catholic on the cover, although I can't off hand remember anything in it that's specifically Catholic, but I love the Catholic Children's Bible.  It's an actual Bible, the Good News Translation, as opposed to a book of Bible  stories. 

https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Childrens-Bible-paperback/dp/159982177X

I'm going to see if I can find a used copy - sounds great, but pricey!

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I teach K-2 Sunday School and own at least 15 or so children's Bibles and many other Bible storybooks. Some are better than others, but none are truly racially diverse.

Katie, thanks so much for posting Bishop Tutu's Bible! One of my hesitations about that one is that the stories are all illustrated by different artists. In the Last Supper story, for example, everyone is black (or so says the reviews). It might be a little confusing for younger children if one is reading it straight through. And some of theology (again, basing this on reviews) looks a little iffy for conservative Christians. I'd still like to add it to my collection, though, and use it selectively.

Side note for anyone who teaches kids: At times I have resorted to printing my own story cards with art from freebibleimages.com. Many of the illustrations there depict a Jesus with dark hair and slightly darker skin--to me he still looks white. Two of my kids actually told me "that doesn't look like Jesus. Jesus is white." 😳 I am trying to fix that misconception. The site also has a very nice series of photographs from the Lumo project, shot in Middle East with Middle Eastern people. 

Ok, first, I'm glad I'm not the only one with a collection of children's bibles! (although I don't teach Sunday School and haven't for a decade, so no excuse, lol). I do think some people didn't like the idfferent artists and styles, and found it jarring. I find it more interesting, and my kids were old enough to understand that it is how different people represent Jesus and the stories, not true to life descriptions. But it helped with the idea of the universality of Christianity. I could see it going either way. I'm happy to take pictures of any specific pages you'd like to see, as well, and post them 🙂

Seriously, with young, sensitive kids, it is my favorite ever. So many stories can be very scary for kids, and this one is just so reassuring, even when telling the scary stuff. 

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

And for balance, a rebuttal of some of Vischer’s points from a gospel centered perspective. I’m a fan of his overall but this wasn’t great, just saying.

http://pastorgabehughes.blogspot.com/2020/06/whats-wrong-with-phil-vischers-video.html?m=1
 

 

Well, yes, if one holds the views of that pastor, and doesn't believe there is systemic racism in America, they won't like Vischer's video. I will say, the criticism that he doesn't have an answer, and that the answer is easy, it is Jesus, sort of ruined that blog post for me. Yes, we need Jesus, and to live out the Gospel, but HOW we do that is sort of the tricky part - and Vischer humbly admits he doesn't know exactly what that looks like when it comes to this issue. And obviously Vischer thinks the Gospel is important, he has an entire life dedicated to it - not just Veggie tales but a lot of different series like What's In the Bible, the Mr. Phil Show, etc etc (he has a Roku channel even). But that wasn't the point of THIS video. He deals with the Gospel in well, pretty much everything else he does 🙂

[Liz CA]

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

I teach K-2 Sunday School and own at least 15 or so children's Bibles and many other Bible storybooks. Some are better than others, but none are truly racially diverse.

Katie, thanks so much for posting Bishop Tutu's Bible! One of my hesitations about that one is that the stories are all illustrated by different artists. In the Last Supper story, for example, everyone is black (or so says the reviews). It might be a little confusing for younger children if one is reading it straight through. And some of theology (again, basing this on reviews) looks a little iffy for conservative Christians. I'd still like to add it to my collection, though, and use it selectively.

Side note for anyone who teaches kids: At times I have resorted to printing my own story cards with art from freebibleimages.com. Many of the illustrations there depict a Jesus with dark hair and slightly darker skin--to me he still looks white. Two of my kids actually told me "that doesn't look like Jesus. Jesus is white." 😳 I am trying to fix that misconception. The site also has a very nice series of photographs from the Lumo project, shot in Middle East with Middle Eastern people. 

 

The Toddler's Bible had definitely pictures of all colors but that would be too young for school age kiddos. I have to say that I don't remember details since it's been a while we read from this Bible.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=ZjMrZiLktA8C&gl=us&hl=en-US&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwirz3BRD_ARIsAImf7LNhLgYopaTklfLfNhgPCA6EqMW16s6hXsetukcDIbe0ZwYHdpg2gksaAu2OEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Pam in CT]

Let My People Go, by Patricia and Frederick McKissack and illustrated by James Ransome, be still my heart.  It doesn't have *all* the Greatest Hits stories, but most; and there are "frame" stories connecting each of the ancient stories with an era and landscape rather closer to home.  Very complementary to the Tutu collection linked above.

That one is spot on to what it sounds like your focus. The other collection that I drew on heavily back in the days when my kids and I used to spend every Friday afternoon reading through a story, talking about and illustrating it, was Eric Kimmel's Be Not Far From Me.  It's not really illustrated -- just a single drop-dead (racially ambiguous silhouette) cutout by David Diaz per story -- but the text is pitch perfect.

[ScoutTN]

16 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

You might also want to check the Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-Jones. (Yes, Martin’s wife.)

The illustrations are pretty much racially appropriate colors for the settings and subjects of the stories. 

 

This. Jago's illustrations are stylized and none of the characters appear anglo/white. 

[ScoutTN]

21 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

You might also want to check the Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-Jones. (Yes, Martin’s wife.)

The illustrations are pretty much racially appropriate colors for the settings and subjects of the stories. 

 

No, she is not married to Dr. David Martin Lloyd-Jones. He was Welsh and was born in the 1890's and died in the 1980's. 

She has Welsh ancestry, obviously, but knows of no connection to rhe famous theologian's family. She has posted about this. She lives in NYC. 

[MercyA]

On 6/21/2020 at 12:32 PM, Ktgrok said:

Well, yes, if one holds the views of that pastor, and doesn't believe there is systemic racism in America, they won't like Vischer's video. I will say, the criticism that he doesn't have an answer, and that the answer is easy, it is Jesus, sort of ruined that blog post for me. Yes, we need Jesus, and to live out the Gospel, but HOW we do that is sort of the tricky part - and Vischer humbly admits he doesn't know exactly what that looks like when it comes to this issue. And obviously Vischer thinks the Gospel is important, he has an entire life dedicated to it - not just Veggie tales but a lot of different series like What's In the Bible, the Mr. Phil Show, etc etc (he has a Roku channel even). But that wasn't the point of THIS video. He deals with the Gospel in well, pretty much everything else he does 🙂

This reminds me of what has so disappointed me in my own church's response to all this. First of all, we've only had mention of rioters, nothing about the killings that led to the (mostly peaceful!) protests. Secondly, the answer is framed as "the rioters are hurting and just need Jesus." NO. No, no, no. I do believe people need Jesus, but not JUST Jesus. How about equality and justice and, oh, I don't know, not living in fear for their LIVES?

People do.not.get.it. 😡

Edited June 24, 2020 by MercyA

[ktgrok]

45 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Dude, I’m not surprised we would disagree. We have been subscribed to JellyTelly and Minno for years.  I’m well aware of Vischer’s body of work, strengths, and weaknesses. As a Christian this was a total let down theologically and in terms of how a believer is to frame this in a God honoring, biblical way.  I’m glad you prefer the video, but a lot of us are very disappointed and Pastor Gabe nailed why, hence why I linked it.  He has some of my favorite current articles on the topic linked at the bottom as well, but I think seeing a Christian response to some of the material coming from a professed believer is important.  It’s too easy to listen to these narratives and discussions uncritically. 

Ok, I will say I should have posted that it was "a Christian's perspective", not "a Christian perspective" as no, it was not about the theology of racism, but about the history of it, from a well known Christian. 

I will also say, he does go into greater depth on the podcasts, etc, and this video was written in about a day, plus another day to edit it, from what I remember...it was not designed to be a treatise or anything, just something he wanted to explain as it was stuff he didn't know before, but was interested in learning about and thought others would be too. 

20 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Let My People Go, by Patricia and Frederick McKissack and illustrated by James Ransome, be still my heart.  It doesn't have *all* the Greatest Hits stories, but most; and there are "frame" stories connecting each of the ancient stories with an era and landscape rather closer to home.  Very complementary to the Tutu collection linked above.

That one is spot on to what it sounds like your focus. The other collection that I drew on heavily back in the days when my kids and I used to spend every Friday afternoon reading through a story, talking about and illustrating it, was Eric Kimmel's Be Not Far From Me.  It's not really illustrated -- just a single drop-dead (racially ambiguous silhouette) cutout by David Diaz per story -- but the text is pitch perfect.

Thanks! Adding to my cart 🙂

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm happy to take pictures of any specific pages you'd like to see, as well, and post them 🙂

You are so sweet, Katie, thanks! I already have a used copy in my cart on eBay; only $5.30 with free shipping! 🙂 

[SounderChick]

I third the Jesus storybook Bible.  It is so good.  It is really good I truly enjoy reading it. 

[Carol in Cal.]

My favorite is “The Story Bible” from Concordia Publishing House.  It is unusually true to the actual wording of the Bible, and beautifully illustrated with characters that mostly have Middle Eastern coloring.  Is it diverse?  Not terribly.  There are human appearances that are mostly not reflected in it.   Is it true to the stories and their actual (likely) characters?  Pretty much.  (Details:  Big format book.  130 stories.  Coverage of lots of Old Testament characters that are not featured in a lot of children’s Bibles.   Good stuff.)

I am 62 and I grew up on Bibles and Bible stories that were all of white people.  I distinctly remember the first time I saw a Bible illustrated with Middle Eastern looking figures.  It was a paradigm shift for me (I was around 10-11 at the time) and an important one.  My church and Sunday school and parochial school were fully integrated ethnically, and explicitly taught equality and Christian love across racial lines, but seeing that one picture the first time was so significant to me that I never forgot it.  It’s good that you’re looking for this.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[EmseB]

5 hours ago, MercyA said:

This reminds me of what has so disappointed me in my own church's response to all this. First of all, we've only had mention of rioters, nothing about the killings that led to the (mostly peaceful!) protests. Secondly, the answer is framed as "the rioters are hurting and just need Jesus." NO. No, no, no. I believe everyone does need Jesus, but not JUST Jesus. How about equality and justice and, oh, I don't know, not living in fear for their LIVES?

People do.not.get.it. 😡

I guess I would say that only the gospel frees us from the kind of racism and injustice that exists. There is no division in the gospel, no critical race theory (where there is only atonement and no forgiveness), no power over another because of the color of their skin...only God's justice through Christ can unify us. Adding anything to Christ's work on the cross as necessary for repentance or forgiveness is a big no, but His work encompasses justice, mercy, and equality at the foot of the cross and IS all we need to see those things accomplished.

[EmseB]

48 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

But we aren't going to be unified with unbelievers and the world we live in isn't freed through the gospel.  It's still fallen and sinful which is why division and critical race theory exist and which is why we have to deal with them and not sweep them under the rug for some Christian utopia.  The Good Samaritan didn't just preach the gospel to the dying man, in fact Jesus didn't tell us that he said anything to the man about eternal life and yet he told us to show mercy like the samaritan did.  Countless times Jesus himself took care of people's physical needs ( I would argue that in our world that includes justice) before/without ever preaching to them.  It's nothing but tripe and trite to say "We just need Jesus" when showing mercy, promoting justice, and trying to understand our hurting neighbors is the exact way that we show Christ to the world.   

The point is not that we don't do anything, the point is that salvation, justice, redemption, unity...anything good, any good works, start from Christ who does unify us under the gospel. Of course sin remains in the world, but as Christians we don't act with the same divisiveness as the world because the gospel frees us from such things. We are free in Christ! This is the Good News! The Bible says this fairly directly. Gospel plus my own works is not the way of salvation, it does not lead to justice, but rather division, and cannot save us from sin, but condems us. This what the pharisees were teaching -- you can't be one of us unless you do, do, do, all these things. If I have to have Jesus plus my own works to be saved, I will fail every time.

When we ask for justice to roll down like waters, do we really want that? Really? To bear the full weight of our iniquities and sins against each other and God? No, no, we don't. We cannot bear that or do enough to fix ourselves. Christ bore that for us so we are free to love each other and do acts of mercy. But if we start thinking Jesus plus our own actions will save us or unify us, we will always miss what the gospel is and what it means. It unites us without regards to the classifications that would otherwise divide us into warring factions. It is the only way forward to be free to love...love those who are hurting, scared, and angry.

Jesus is the starting point from which we move forward to do good works. We cannot claim his gospel and claim we still need to add to it with our works to make things more better than He did. We cannot. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by EmseB

[EmseB]

Maybe simpler: if you think there is something you (general) can do to cause reconciliation and unity between people that is greater or more important than what Christ has already done, I would say that you (general) are missing the point of His life, death, and resurrection and putting yourself and your works on a pedestal they cannot possibly survive.

Edited June 22, 2020 by EmseB

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, EmseB said:

I guess I would say that only the gospel frees us from the kind of racism and injustice that exists. There is no division in the gospel, no critical race theory (where there is only atonement and no forgiveness), no power over another because of the color of their skin...only God's justice through Christ can unify us. Adding anything to Christ's work on the cross as necessary for repentance or forgiveness is a big no, but His work encompasses justice, mercy, and equality at the foot of the cross and IS all we need to see those things accomplished.

I agree that as believers we should find unity in Christ, yet I am thankful I didn't apply this kind of philosophy to pro-life activism and sidewalk counseling. Lives were saved because people were present where injustice was happening and actively trying to DO something to stop it. It is easy for people to say, Jesus is the answer for abortion. Jesus is the answer for racism. Jesus is the answer for [insert societal ill]. We are called to "speak for those who cannot speak; seek justice for all those on the verge of destruction." Faith without works is dead.

If I saw someone abusing a child, I might share the Gospel with them at some point, but that isn't the only thing I would do or even the first thing. People are dying because of the color of their skin. It is time for action.

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, EmseB said:

I guess I would say that only the gospel frees us from the kind of racism and injustice that exists. There is no division in the gospel, no critical race theory (where there is only atonement and no forgiveness), no power over another because of the color of their skin...only God's justice through Christ can unify us. Adding anything to Christ's work on the cross as necessary for repentance or forgiveness is a big no, but His work encompasses justice, mercy, and equality at the foot of the cross and IS all we need to see those things accomplished.

 

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Maybe simpler: if you think there is something you (general) can do to cause reconciliation and unity between people that is greater or more important than what Christ has already done, I would say that you (general) are missing the point of His life, death, and resurrection and putting yourself and your works on a pedestal they cannot possibly survive.

The Gospel is exactly where I read to serve my fellow man, to fight for justice, etc. You seem to be saying Jesus already did everything, I can just sit home and not work at helping my fellow man? I don't do that to save myself, I do it because it is what Jesus said to do, and because in my tradition it is part of my baptismal covenant. 

Celebrant: “Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself?”

People: “I will, with God’s help.”

Celebrant: “Will you strive for justice and peace among all people, and respect the dignity of every human being?”

People: “I will, with God’s help.

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

As a Christian I know that nothing I do can be of greater impact than what He has done for me.  But that doesn't mean that I shouldn't pay attention to how I act.  Do I say that because Christ's love for me is greater than anything I'm capable of, I shouldn't love my children?  Do, I say that since the world that God has created is more fantastic than anything I could make, the sandwiches I make for the soup kitchen have no meaning?  Do I say that since God's power to heal is mightier than man, I don't seek out medical care, or donate to charities that allow other people to do so?  No, of course not.  All of those things are part of my life as a Christian.  And so is addressing systemic racism in our country.

I feel as though the questions you're asking misunderstand my point entirely, so I'll try to explain better. I'm surprised you got from all of that that I would think I shouldn't love my kids...or anyone?

No, the point is that the very idea of equality, justice, mercy, good works, loving our neighbor as ourselves flows from Christ. That is what makes all that work and love and obedience to God meaningful, not meaningless. It comes under a banner of sins paid for on the cross, the ultimate act of justice and mercy done on my sinful behalf. I am reconciled to God and my neighbor, should I repent and believe in Him! It brings me to tears anytime I think on it for very long.

We are equal humans made in the image of God. Christ has removed all distinctions of race, gender, social status, age, intelligence, you name it. And contrary to erasing who we are as people, this allows us to be our full selves in Christ and love each other freely. Our ability to act in kindness or mercy or to do any good works is because of Christ. Any act of injustice I commit, I need to repent of and seek forgiveness. This forgiveness has been given as a gift to me from Christ.

To contrast, the idea of systemic racism and CRT means that I, as a white individual, can never be reconciled to my black brothers and sisters in Christ because I am a part of a system that oppresses them actively. There is no redemption or reconciliation via the gospel in that system. Christ's work is not enough for me to repent and be atoned for because even if I do all I can, am the best person I can be and personally eschew all racism, I am still guilty of my whiteness. There is no forgiveness and reconciling to each other as brothers and sisters, no matter the work I do. That is the very antithesis of the gospel message, which is that we are reconciled to God and each other because of Christ's work on the cross. That is really all the reconciliation needed between God, myself, and anyone else on earth when I repent of my sin. That doesn't mean nothing matters or that I don't also have to work out my salvation with fear and trembling ever single day, but the work of redemption and reconciliation itself has been accomplished and it is not based on race, gender, or nationality.

[EmseB]

33 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

The Gospel is exactly where I read to serve my fellow man, to fight for justice, etc. You seem to be saying Jesus already did everything, I can just sit home and not work at helping my fellow man? 

Uh, no. It means because I have been forgiven, I am reconciled to God and free to love everyone equally as a sinner saved by grace. But if I am perpetually guilty of systemic racism all the time, that means I am never reconciled to God or man because racism is a grievous sin. Systemic racism means there is a barrier between me and my neighbor, a gap I can never bridge as an individual no matter what I do, a gap not bridged by the cross. CRT means that I am perpetually oppressed and an oppressor. And it means that gap isn't bridged or reconciled by Christ's work either. It means we are always divided societally and individually into tribes based on our identity. The Bible clearly teaches the opposite and *that* is how I am to act towards my neighbor.

Clearly something got misunderstood about what I think I can do as an individual and the concepts of systemic racism and broader issues as they related to reconciliation and redemption.

[Lawyer&Mom]

The Spark Story Bible by Augsburg Fortress does a great job of making everyone, from Adam and Eve to John and Jesus, appear realistically Middle Eastern. (Not just brown hair, but brown skin too!)  The pictures are a bit cartoony, and the text is a definitely a retelling for kids, but it has an important spot on our shelf.   

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I agree that as believers we should find unity in Christ, yet I am thankful I didn't apply this kind of philosophy to pro-life activism and sidewalk counseling. Lives were saved because people were present where injustice was happening and actively trying to DO something to stop it. It is easy for people to say, Jesus is the answer for abortion. Jesus is the answer for racism. Jesus is the answer for [insert societal ill]. We are called to "speak for those who cannot speak; seek justice for all those on the verge of destruction." Faith without works is dead.

If I saw someone abusing a child, I might share the Gospel with them at some point, but that isn't the only thing I would do or even the first thing. People are dying because of the color of their skin. It is time for action.

I don’t disagree with most of this, but some of us may disagree on the specific action that is needed.

And I simply disagree at a fundamental level with the ideas of CRT, which is the basis for most of the current movements toward political action. I will not give those ideas any quarter because they are antithetical to the gospel, which should be the foundation of a Christian's work on any of those issues.

[ktgrok]

36 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I feel as though the questions you're asking misunderstand my point entirely, so I'll try to explain better. I'm surprised you got from all of that that I would think I shouldn't love my kids...or anyone?

No, the point is that the very idea of equality, justice, mercy, good works, loving our neighbor as ourselves flows from Christ. That is what makes all that work and love and obedience to God meaningful, not meaningless. It comes under a banner of sins paid for on the cross, the ultimate act of justice and mercy done on my sinful behalf. I am reconciled to God and my neighbor, should I repent and believe in Him! It brings me to tears anytime I think on it for very long.

We are equal humans made in the image of God. Christ has removed all distinctions of race, gender, social status, age, intelligence, you name it. And contrary to erasing who we are as people, this allows us to be our full selves in Christ and love each other freely. Our ability to act in kindness or mercy or to do any good works is because of Christ. Any act of injustice I commit, I need to repent of and seek forgiveness. This forgiveness has been given as a gift to me from Christ.

To contrast, the idea of systemic racism and CRT means that I, as a white individual, can never be reconciled to my black brothers and sisters in Christ because I am a part of a system that oppresses them actively. 

I'm pretty sure CRT is just a term that is just used in internet arguments, I don't care about the terminology, I care about the fact that the country I live in is not treating people of color as equal, the way Christ says they are. And it is my duty as a follower of Jesus to try to help as best I can. Call that what you will. To do otherwise is not to live out my calling as a Christian. 

I think people are focusing on terminology, and dare I say it, theology, instead of actually following Christ these days. He didn't say "think about me" he said "follow me". You can call it whatever theory or term you want, but calling out injustice and demanding change is not denying Christ's forgiveness. 

[J-rap]

Just tossing up a different idea altogether...  Knowing my own children (all 20+), I kind of wish I could do this all over again.  I love the idea of a racially diverse children's Bible.  But more than that, I do wonder if children's Bibles are always the right approach.  I sometimes wonder if starting with the Old Testament stories with children is even a good idea.  It seems like starting by simply talking about Jesus and the Gospel message might be a better approach.  

Still thinking this through, but it's something I've wondered about.

 

 

 

[ScoutTN]

3 minutes ago, Danae said:

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of critical race theory and systematic racism.  

Systemic sin is not something one can be guilty of. Evangelical Christianity tends to focus tightly on the metaphor cluster of sin=crime, atonement= forgiveness, at the expense of other biblical ways of looking at sin.  In the case of systemic issues sin is not crime that leads to guilt and requires forgiveness. Systemic sin is a trap that leads to captivity and requires liberation. Which is the the work of Christ! The idea that believing in atonement for individual sins means we have to be blind to systemic sin is false gospel. 

But the language of "repenting of white privilige" is extremely common now in evangelical circles, used mostly by those who lean progressive. People DO speak of systemic sin as something one can be guilty of, all the time. This is not biblical. Racism is not imputed, like original sin. I am responsible for my thoughts, words, and actions (or inactions). 

I agree that there are many metaphors for salvation in Scripture and that it is necessary to include all of them in ourcthinking and speaking. I am rwading Crime and Punishment and am seeing how the RO Church emphasizes a different understanding of sin than confessional Protestant ones. However, any one view, overemphasized, can lead to dangerous misunderstandings.

Christians are right to be wary of much of the language in current social justice movements, because there is historical precendent for doing so. Mainline Protestant churches in the early 20th C. gave up the gospel. CRT is unbiblical. So is much in the official platform/belief statements on the BLM website. 

We are to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God. We can live out the gospel in ways that affect our communities for good, loving our neighbors, being aware of past and current sinful cultural patterns and not conforming to them - without accepting unbiblical ideas, definitions, and words. The words matter! 

Professing Christians have too often misused Scripture to defend racism and the horrific evils it leads to. We need to be active in our communities making sure that government is not perpetuating these evils. We need to be active on a personal, relational level, having real friendships with people who are different from us, not living in a bubble. Learning and listening. But, we also have to be discerning, realizing that the current movement is using righteous anger over recent manifestations of violence and deeply wrong beliefs and actions to promote other, clearly unbiblical ideas and actions. 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

18 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

I have a lot of jumbled thoughts about this and I don't know how to articulate well so I am not even sure what I say will be relevant. 

I come from a country where all the Gods look like me and my family worships a God who looks nothing like us. St. Thomas came to my country, doubting Thomas himself came to my native country, it is not anecdotal but historical. He is buried there. But christianity itself came with Colonization and is associated with it. My family does not have a conversion story in all sides of the family I know of, It goes back to even my great grandparents and shrouded in the mists of family history. Conversion itself is a painful subject even now in my native country and conversion during the age of colonization always raises the question of how and why did my ancestors convert. Were they threatened ? Were they willing ? Were they converted for God or for the Queen ? Did they know the Christian God ? They were uneducated, we know that much. We do not talk much about that in my family and when some people here say, not always but quite frequently I do not "look" Indian, some part of me always freaks out because it goes back to those ancestors. So that is my family history and also the story of how Christianity came to my family. I just do not know. So my personal faith journey has always been fraught with questions ever since I knew how to ask.

Christianity to me has always been associated with baggage. It comes as a religion of a colonizer, a religion associated with people who conquered my country in some way, who were not nice to my people. Beloved hymns like 'All things bright and beautiful' which paint a beautiful picture of God's creation and one of my most favorite hymns also has a painful verse like this 

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
He made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.

What am I supposed to do with a legacy like this ? Should I follow what Jesus did and say 'Father forgive them for they know not what they did' ? Jesus says 'Many are called but few are chosen'. Were my ancestors those that responded to His call ? Is it a Godly legacy ? It sure is a painful historical legacy. But at some point it has to be about me and my relationship with God. So I do not really look for how He is depicted in statues or books or diversity for I might just walk away. I choose to believe in Him despite everything I see.

I choose to recite the Lord's prayer in as many languages as I can.  I come from a country where I have seen mass back to back to back in various local languages and in English. I have stood in places where people recite the rosary in various languages and people are of various colors and it is a Holy Thing.  I know some in America do not consider Catholics "real" christians but I come from a country where they are considered real Christians as real as I am considered one. I have always associated Heaven with multitudes of people of various skin colors, singing and praising Him in various languages and that is why I imagine Him as  light, pure light and when he took the image of man, I don't really care for the color of His skin.

God as spirit doesn’t have skin. He doesn’t have an ethnicity. He doesn’t have or promote any human culture. He chose the Hebrews to introduce Himself to the world He created but yet said that “my thoughts are not your thoughts “.  He transcends culture and as Romans says, “what is known about God is evident within them”, meaning all of humankind. 
 

Jesus, when He became the God-Man obviously  had skin and hair and eye color. And I say that it’s fairly safe to say that his coloring didn’t stand out from the community in which He was born. So He didn’t look Nordic and He didn’t look SubSaharan either. But His message was never about that. His message contradicted many of the cultural norms of that time and place. 
 

Since I grew up in a missionary family I am sensitive to both the mandate to share God’s message with others and the pitfalls of sharing our sinful culture at the same time. It’s a hard one to sort out and there are success stories of people making the gospel their own and horrible stories of abuse and oppression. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

 

Christians are right to be wary of much of the language in current social justice movements, because there is historical precendent for doing so. Mainline Protestant churches in the early 20th C. gave up the gospel. CRT is unbiblical. So is much in the official platform/belief statements on the BLM website. 

We are to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God. We can live out the gospel in ways that affect our communities for good, loving our neighbors, being aware of past and current sinful cultural patterns and not conforming to them - without accepting unbiblical ideas, definitions, and words. The words matter! 

Professing Christians have too often misused Scripture to defend racism and the horrific evils it leads to. We need to be active in our communities making sure that government is not perpetuating these evils. We need to be active on a personal, relational level, having real friendships with people who are different from us, not living in a bubble. Learning and listening. But, we also have to be discerning, realizing that the current movement is using righteous anger over recent manifestations of violence and deeply wrong beliefs and actions to promote other, clearly unbiblical ideas and actions. 

 

1. Not going to get agreement from me or many that mainline churches have given up the Gospel, not that I even know what that means. 

2. What I bolded, where you said to live out the gospel, be aware of past and current sinful cultural patterns and not conforming to them IS exactly what I, Phil Vischer, and most people are describing when we talk about trying to confront systemic racism. Systemic racism is "past and current sinful cultural patterns", so I don't see why or how you acknowledge that, and then say that start saying how all this is unbiblical. When a person says we should repent of systemic racism, they mean for the way they have profited off a system set up for them to profit at the expense of others...how is repenting for whatever part you play in that unbliblical? 

As for terminology, when I google critical race theory the definition seems to be based on the idea that critical institutions such as government, police, education, etc were set up to empower one race over another. If that is true (one can argue if it is or isn't if they want), what about that is unbiblical? It's basically saying "sinful cultural patterns", but in an actual institution. How is acknowledging that unbiblical?

 

[NoseInABook]

https://www.amazon.com/Tiny-Truths-Illustrated-Bible/dp/0310764319  We love Tiny Truths and have Wonder and Wisdom on preorder. We love the Jesus Storybook Bible too.