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re voice from a state with a huge outbreak in the early days

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Ktgrok, the spike in your county freaks me out.  I know that is going to happen here

 Our state is now rising when it wasn't a week ago.   We are still staying at home and socially distant.  Only leave for food and we have masked since the start.  I am going to have my kids start to do that on walks.   We normally just cross the street.    We have not gotten together with anyone in anyway.  Kids have not played with friends.  My kids haven't left the house since March except for bike rides.   Dh still works from home 100 %.  We have only had one dentist apt.

The rising numbers freaks me out.  How do you stay safe in that environment?   Someone in a state with a huge outbreak talk me through that please.

All the things for the year that my kids look forward to are canceled.    I don't think the will get back in the studio this year.  I cry about how sad this is all is.  For our kids.  I can deal with staying home for a year, I just hate that kids are missing out on so much of normal life. 

One of us needs oral surgery and I bet it will be canceled. 

((mommyoffive))

Breathe.

What we did was, we stayed home to the very greatest extent we could. (None of us have been inside a store since March 18.  We are very fortunate, telework & tele-studying all.)  We traded tips on how to get food delivered; we learned to make do with less-favored food (Walmart ships anything shelf stable just about anywhere in the continental 48 within 48 hours).  We put Torah/Bible study, and book groups, and civic organization meetings, on ZOOM. We learned to sequence ZOOM sessions with 5-10 minutes of open chat check-ins, how's everyone doing, before proceeding to formal business.  We set up regular standing "dates" to video chat with distant relatives. Grandparent-grandchild pairs picked up video readings of LOTR, learned to "go to the virtual library" together to choose online picture books, date-watched Netflix simultaneously so they could "talk" about it.  We sent in unsolicited reviews of newly-curbside-dropoff local restaurants to our local online media so as to encourage other community members to patronize their business, and the outlets happily printed them in their entirety.  We tried to figure out ways to "help" in whatever small way we could (in the early, desperately PPE-constrained days, my 82 yo mother, who lives in an independent senior residence, organized her cronies to sew homemade washable masks which they actually sent out to hospitals for the use by clerical and other staff who didn't face patients, so as to free up medical grade masks for the staff who did).  Partly just to give purpose and structure to the endless Groundhog Days, but partly, also, to feel there was some tiny corner of the world where we could exert some small feeling of control.

It sucked. It still sucks. The mental health toll is real.  

We got through it though, and there were moments of hope and connection and humanity, there were lessons learned that we will carry forward to whenever we get to the other side of this.  Here we are now three and a half months later, finally after all that our cases are down, our medical facilities are in OK shape in terms of capacity/PPE/equipment, our heroic medical personnel are finally getting the time and space to breathe, our school districts are finally able, looking at our local numbers, beginning to shape what going back to IRL class might look like.  People who've gone through what we've gone through are more than willing to distance wear masks in order to enable us to begin to re-open, partisan affiliation notwithstanding.  Having endured what we've endured, we understand the relationship between doing what we can to keep the numbers down, and ability to get the economy going. Nobody *liked* SIP. Everybody *wants* to be able to get going again. Masks and 6' markers are a very small price to pay, to be able to do that.  

 

And now we're watching in horror as other states fall like dominoes right to where we were....

...and the fact of the matter is, for better and worse, we are not 50 sovereign states we are one country, with interstate roads and interstate commerce and interstate supply chains for everything as basic as chicken and shelf stable Walmart food, we are interdependent, and no state can contain COVID when others are surging.  What happens in FL will come right back to NY/NJ/CT, and our ability here to reopen offices and schools in August is already in jeopardy because of what's happening there..  

There is no tradeoff between public health and the economy; they are interrelated, they move together.

Because the enemy here is a disease, not SIP measures or masking mandates or an ideology about individual v collective rights.  A disease.

 

Breathe. Stay at home to the very greatest extent you can. Learn to love the technology that allows us to stay connected and communicating, even though it will never be the same. Share tips with others in your community. Call people you haven't spoken to in ages and just check in. *Talk* about the mental health toll, be explicit with yourself and your loved ones about concrete acts that help this person, that help that person, how the one who feels stronger on a given day can carry a bit more for the one who feels worse.

Remember who the real enemy is.

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6 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I think this fits best here- after analyzing credit card data and comparing Covid spikes, it seems there is a strong correlation between sit down meals and Covid spikes!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/this-chart-shows-the-link-between-restaurant-spending-and-new-coronavirus-cases.html

That is very interesting,  but I wish they'd included data that compared outside to inside dining. I've been hoping outside would be better (though I've still been too chicken to do even that). Inside just seems nuts to me... (our cases are down now, but I'm in a state that was clobbered)

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44 minutes ago, Joker said:

You guys, I’m now supposed to pick up my sister, who’s coming from a hot spot, from the airport Friday because she wants to stay with my mom for a few days. My mom will have just been released from the hospital after having major surgery. I’ll be taking and picking up both of them - one to and from the hospital and the other the airport.  Both just laugh at me when I raise concerns. 😳 Am I crazy for thinking this is a bad idea? To be clear, I’m most concerned about my 70 year old mother. 
 

ETA: Will it help me at all if I am the only one wearing a mask when I pick my sister up? We’ll be in the car together for about 30-45 minutes. I know from FB that she didn’t mask and goes out a lot. Ugghhh!

That is hard.

Reasonable people weigh risks and benefits differently.  Also, not all people are reasonable.  COVID has forced a lot of difficult conversations, and has compelled me to really step up my boundary-drawing capacity.  

Personally I rank the risks of air travel quite high -- higher to/from hot spots, but high in all cases.  Personally I would draw a boundary at your sister's pickup and enabling her (to my mind, very ill-advised) visit with your recuperating mother.  I would agree to transport your mother only if your mother agreed to mask for the full ride.  Laugh with scorn all the way home Mom, but if I'm driving, you're masking.  

(30+ years ago I had to be VERY FIRM to train my then-cavalier in-laws to wear seatbelts.  It took 10+ years to get them there.  But if I'm driving you, those are the rules.  To my mind this is analogous.)

Good luck; that is very hard.

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54 minutes ago, Joker said:

You guys, I’m now supposed to pick up my sister, who’s coming from a hot spot, from the airport Friday because she wants to stay with my mom for a few days. My mom will have just been released from the hospital after having major surgery. I’ll be taking and picking up both of them - one to and from the hospital and the other the airport.  Both just laugh at me when I raise concerns. 😳 Am I crazy for thinking this is a bad idea? To be clear, I’m most concerned about my 70 year old mother. 
 

ETA: Will it help me at all if I am the only one wearing a mask when I pick my sister up? We’ll be in the car together for about 30-45 minutes. I know from FB that she didn’t mask and goes out a lot. Ugghhh!

I'm sorry, I am NOT one to make waves in my family, but I'd be firm. If you want a ride from me, you wear a mask. I'd say it more nicely...."I know you aren't into masks, but given the whole airport thing, and something I just read about car rides together being a major way to spread it, I need you to humor me and wear a mask for the car ride home, okay? Otherwise I'm going to keep all the windows down the whole way, and no one wants, that..." 

And her visiting your mom is crazypants, but you can't control that. You can control what happens in your car. 

12 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

That is very interesting,  but I wish they'd included data that compared outside to inside dining. I've been hoping outside would be better (though I've still been too chicken to do even that). Inside just seems nuts to me... (our cases are down now, but I'm in a state that was clobbered)

I know here the patios were PACKED. No distancing at most places....people thought outside was a license to pretend there was no virus. A few finally just got temporarily shut down and fined for it. 

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10 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re voice from a state with a huge outbreak in the early days

 *Talk* about the mental health toll, be explicit with yourself and your loved ones about concrete acts that help this person, that help that person, how the one who feels stronger on a given day can carry a bit more for the one who feels worse.

That was a beautiful post, @Pam in CT. 
The mental heath toll is definitely real. In my circle of friends, I have seen several marriages disintegrate and a person commit two suicide attempts since the pandemic started, and that's just the top of an iceberg of depression. With the slight opening, we are able to lend some in person support, while safely distanced and outside, but I am dreading a possible re-lockdown; we won't be able to give people what they need. I know that my mental health has improved dramatically since I have been able to see other humans. I am very concerned about that aspect. What concrete acts are going to help people from a distance?

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19 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm sorry, I am NOT one to make waves in my family, but I'd be firm. If you want a ride from me, you wear a mask. I'd say it more nicely...."I know you aren't into masks, but given the whole airport thing, and something I just read about car rides together being a major way to spread it, I need you to humor me and wear a mask for the car ride home, okay? Otherwise I'm going to keep all the windows down the whole way, and no one wants, that..." 

And her visiting your mom is crazypants, but you can't control that. You can control what happens in your car. 

 I agree 100%, and I'd be even more cuckoo and make her wear a mask and keep the windows down the whole time...  (I have seen that suggested as a way to lower risk for shared rides...).  More air flow = better.

Or, you know, there's Uber.

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4 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I don't know that I believe that.  I think that many people have spoken loud and clear, saying that they think that certain people are expendable.  It seems that people are willing to accept death as long as the person is, in some way, different from the.  So, if they're older than you are, or disabled, or live in a city, or obese, or a different race, then it's not so bad.  I saw one post, on another forum, where someone said that COVID wasn't a big deal because it only kills people who "are going to die anyway".  I figure that writer was either Duncan McLeod or seriously misinformed about what the future holds for him.  

Again, I really hope I'm wrong about this.

Well, I mean, he’s not wrong in that (a) CV infects living people and (b) the mortality rate of the human race is holding steady at 100%. He apparently hasn’t made the logical leap his premise demands.

(And, yes, I understand he meant something else. I was just tickled at his implied opinion that there are humans who won’t “die anyway”. There can be only one, indeed.)

 

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1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

I think this fits best here- after analyzing credit card data and comparing Covid spikes, it seems there is a strong correlation between sit down meals and Covid spikes!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/this-chart-shows-the-link-between-restaurant-spending-and-new-coronavirus-cases.html

I'm extremely unsurprised. I think I posted a week ago that the correlation with OpenTable data was uncanny. 

And guess what? Father's Day was the day with the highest level of indoor dining since the beginning of the pandemic. We're in for some rough times... 

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Ok, I think I can make my sister wear a mask. We’re not super close so she will probably think I’m crazy, but since we’re not close who cares. I’ll probably leave the windows cracked as well.

My mom just had a Covid test for a pre op appointment so I’m good with no mask for her if she doesn’t want to on the way there. I’m not sure how comfortable she will be on way back so I’ll have to wait and see. This just all really stinks. 
 

ETA: And now I’ve also been asked to pick up the dog from boarding during all this crazy! It’s like they’ve all forget there is a pandemic!

Edited by Joker
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re mental health toll

27 minutes ago, regentrude said:

That was a beautiful post, @Pam in CT. 
The mental heath toll is definitely real. In my circle of friends, I have seen several marriages disintegrate and a person commit two suicide attempts since the pandemic started, and that's just the top of an iceberg of depression. With the slight opening, we are able to lend some in person support, while safely distanced and outside, but I am dreading a possible re-lockdown; we won't be able to give people what they need. I know that my mental health has improved dramatically since I have been able to see other humans. I am very concerned about that aspect. What concrete acts are going to help people from a distance?

Oh I am so very sorry.

And there are no easy answers or one size fits all answers, are there.

Within my own circles, the two biggest exacerbating factors have been isolation, and uncertainty.  The elders in my life have been more affected by the former; the emerging-adult ones by the latter. Neither is solvable.  Boredom and monotony as well of course, but those two seem among my loved ones to have had the most acute effects. Laying them out on the table, explicitly labeling them, directly talking about them, (in particular) directly asking what do you think would help even if only at the margins.

With my mother, I have a standing High Tea date for Saturday afternoon. We do it at the same time, I put out flowers and a cloth napkin and a pretty teapot (the absolute goofiest thing in the world but it MAKES HER HAPPY) and we ZOOM in. Sometimes one or more of my kids joins in, occasionally my brother, every so often a Guest Visitor from extended family, but every week at the same time, at least her and me. That it is reliably at the same time seems to matter a great deal.

My aunt has organized full-extended family check-ins every other Sunday. Those are a little chaotic and wearying, with the cacophony of 7 family groups talking over each other... but we're all keeping up with them both to stay connected but also to put stakes in the calendar, break up the Groundhog Day feel.

I made a rule for myself early on, to make one phone call to one person 70+ years old every day.  Anyone I know from any walk of life: just call. I haven't managed it *every* day. But as an aspiration I believe in it.  As I expect you are as well, I'm in various study groups and other organizations -- if I notice someone on one of those ZOOMs who doesn't say much, I just call the next day, so nice to "see" you, just wanted to catch up with a little more time...

The uncertainty that young people are facing, about college and job prospects and the economy and larger world into which they will launch... that to my mind is much harder to figure out how to help them through.  I am terribly worried about that.

 

And yes, it has been such a blessed relief to begin, slowly, with our masks and 6' apart folding lawn chairs, just to begin to meet up IRL.  There is just no substitute.

And I'm seeing it snatched away.

 

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We live in a suburban neighborhood near a hospital, close enough to hear the ambulances go by. Three have gone by today. That is how I have concrete poof the cases in my county are rising. For my mental health, I do not look outside my county for actual numbers though my state TX is one where we are backpedalling the opening and insisting on universal masking now. 

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2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

@square_25  and any other data buffs.

Have you seen this?  https://rt.live/?fbclid=IwAR1PSTTEjQfgWfGnEGtk3U_Uf0PkeHSyqrd6hHwdBid6p0m1044RdGk07jA

I am curious about the methodology of correcting the number of positive cases (see the FAQ) to come up with the R-naught. 

I've seen it, but I haven't looked at their methodology. I'll take a look tonight. 

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So my state and specifically my county has numbers highers than any point before the lockdown.  So the governor has left the state at the last stage but let local mayors make their own decisions.  So my county (and one up north, I think) have moved back to stage 3 (possibly stage 2 in the near future)...while the rest of the state is stage 4.  WTH?!  Where is the logic in this?

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2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

That is hard.

Reasonable people weigh risks and benefits differently.  Also, not all people are reasonable.  COVID has forced a lot of difficult conversations, and has compelled me to really step up my boundary-drawing capacity.  

Personally I rank the risks of air travel quite high -- higher to/from hot spots, but high in all cases.  Personally I would draw a boundary at your sister's pickup and enabling her (to my mind, very ill-advised) visit with your recuperating mother.  I would agree to transport your mother only if your mother agreed to mask for the full ride.  Laugh with scorn all the way home Mom, but if I'm driving, you're masking.  

(30+ years ago I had to be VERY FIRM to train my then-cavalier in-laws to wear seatbelts.  It took 10+ years to get them there.  But if I'm driving you, those are the rules.  To my mind this is analogous.)

Good luck; that is very hard.

 

This.

 

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1 hour ago, Joker said:

Ok, I think I can make my sister wear a mask. We’re not super close so she will probably think I’m crazy, but since we’re not close who cares. I’ll probably leave the windows cracked as well.

My mom just had a Covid test for a pre op appointment so I’m good with no mask for her if she doesn’t want to on the way there. I’m not sure how comfortable she will be on way back so I’ll have to wait and see. This just all really stinks. 
 

ETA: And now I’ve also been asked to pick up the dog from boarding during all this crazy! It’s like they’ve all forget there is a pandemic!

 

Sounds better. 

How bout windows as open as possible. 

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2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

That is hard.

Reasonable people weigh risks and benefits differently.  Also, not all people are reasonable.  COVID has forced a lot of difficult conversations, and has compelled me to really step up my boundary-drawing capacity.  

Personally I rank the risks of air travel quite high -- higher to/from hot spots, but high in all cases.  Personally I would draw a boundary at your sister's pickup and enabling her (to my mind, very ill-advised) visit with your recuperating mother.  I would agree to transport your mother only if your mother agreed to mask for the full ride.  Laugh with scorn all the way home Mom, but if I'm driving, you're masking.  

(30+ years ago I had to be VERY FIRM to train my then-cavalier in-laws to wear seatbelts.  It took 10+ years to get them there.  But if I'm driving you, those are the rules.  To my mind this is analogous.)

Good luck; that is very hard.

I have a friend who is 67 with diabetes and a host of other problems. She asked me to drive her to the doctor back in April/May. I told her, “We will have to wear masks. I will keep all the windows down. And we can’t stop and get food to eat in the car.”. (We used to like to go out and get a snack from Taco Bell and eat it in the car together.). I told her, “I’m ok if you want to ask someone else to take you, because I know my rules aren’t all that fun.  But that’s just the place where I am right now.  Masks, windows fully down, no food.”. She was ok with it.  

 

And of course it poured rain when we were driving.  So...we got wet.  Windows down!  I put hers up about 1/2 way, but kept the rest down. 

Edited by Garga
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49 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

So my state and specifically my county has numbers highers than any point before the lockdown.  So the governor has left the state at the last stage but let local mayors make their own decisions.  So my county (and one up north, I think) have moved back to stage 3 (possibly stage 2 in the near future)...while the rest of the state is stage 4.  WTH?!  Where is the logic in this?

There is no logic :-/. 

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On 6/25/2020 at 8:42 PM, Fifiruth said:

Also, the mayor and governor will only say that they “don’t know” if the protests resulted in a surge of infections.

Truly. What are our numbers gurus here saying on that? Cuz it just sorta seems crickets with my online news googling, like no one wants to really say this. But yeah the spikes are starting to get really peaked here and when were the protests? My sense of time is bad.

 

3 hours ago, Joker said:

We’ll be in the car together for about 30-45 minutes.

Yeah, my dd is supposed to fly in. I'm kind of in Olaf mode. (Some people are worth melting for.)

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1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Truly. What are our numbers gurus here saying on that? Cuz it just sorta seems crickets with my online news googling, like no one wants to really say this. But yeah the spikes are starting to get really peaked here and when were the protests? My sense of time is bad.

 

Yeah, my dd is supposed to fly in. I'm kind of in Olaf mode. (Some people are worth melting for.)

I have seen calculation supposedly saying they didn’t have an impact but to be honest I find that hard to believe 

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Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

I have seen calculation supposedly saying they didn’t have an impact but to be honest I find that hard to believe 

Yeah, think about it. CNN is trying so hard to say that people sitting staggered tables apart (way farther than 6') and chewing their steak quietly is killing us all but riots with thousands of people jammed on each other with stupid paper masks had zero effect. 

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6 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Yeah, think about it. CNN is trying so hard to say that people sitting staggered tables apart (way farther than 6') and chewing their steak quietly is killing us all but riots with thousands of people jammed on each other with stupid paper masks had zero effect. 

I think the masks would help but the footage of many of the protestors I saw  not all wore masks and did involve a lot of shouting.  It’s hard to see how that didn’t have an impact.  Plus the secondary impact to me of people seeing it and thinking ok well it’s over anyway and going back to normal.

i hope it’s ok to think it’s completely understandable why the protests were happening and still wish there’d been a safer way...

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9 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Yeah, think about it. CNN is trying so hard to say that people sitting staggered tables apart (way farther than 6') and chewing their steak quietly is killing us all but riots with thousands of people jammed on each other with stupid paper masks had zero effect. 

I think what CNN is saying is that it's too early to tell.  There was this idea, earlier, that spikes came after a couple weeks, but if you look at everywhere where there's been spikes, and the time between the changes in behaviors and changes in numbers that are big enough to register, takes some time.  I hope that we find out that the very small number of rioters and the very large numbers of protesters didn't lead to spread.  I hope that we find that somehow miraculously Trumps things with indoor crowds and almost no masks didn't lead to spread.  But it's too early to know.  

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Not from a reliable source but one guy said the average infection rate for Massachusetts for protestors was 2.5pc versus 1.9 pc for everyone else.  While half a percent doesn’t seem huge when you are talking such small percentages anyway it is a big change.  But then protestors were encouraged to test more so they might be found more as well, I don’t know how you adjust for that.  

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24 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

 

 

Yeah, my dd is supposed to fly in. I'm kind of in Olaf mode. (Some people are worth melting for.)

Yeah, if it was one of my kids I wouldn’t have even mentioned it here. But it’s my sis who I’m not close to because of what she thinks of my amazing kids. I’m only picking her up out of love and respect for my mom but I don’t want to put any of us at risk to do so. It’s complicated and difficult. I wish I could opt out of all it at the moment but I can’t or I wouldn’t like myself very much. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t so nice and could treat others how they treat me but for some reason I can’t. 
 

Sorry I’m venting here on all of you but it really sucks.

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33 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I have seen calculation supposedly saying they didn’t have an impact but to be honest I find that hard to believe 

Minneapolis is not increasing. If the protests have an effect it should hit here first, and so far it has not.  

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Just now, Danae said:

Minneapolis is not increasing. If the protests have an effect it should hit here first, and so far it has not.  

Hmm interesting.

maybe the number of cases from protests are offset by the number of people not trying to go anywhere because it was too hard with the protests going on.  Could that be a thing?

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Last time I checked, one of the counties of CA's watchlist did mention protests as one of the reason why it's being watched. At least that county must have traced stuff back to them and isn't politically afraid of putting it as a reason.

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3 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Last time I checked, one of the counties of CA's watchlist did mention protests as one of the reason why it's being watched. At least that county must have traced stuff back to them and isn't politically afraid of putting it as a reason.

I don't know.  I'm in one of the most liberal parts of the country, and our local government has been clear that they both support the protests and are watching carefully from the beginning, way before there was anyway of seeing changes.   I'd say that the fact that places like Minnesota and Massachusetts and Washington, DC are doing widespread testing is a sign that they're not putting politics ahead of safety.  

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17 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I don't know.  I'm in one of the most liberal parts of the country, and our local government has been clear that they both support the protests and are watching carefully from the beginning, way before there was anyway of seeing changes.   I'd say that the fact that places like Minnesota and Massachusetts and Washington, DC are doing widespread testing is a sign that they're not putting politics ahead of safety.  

Here in MA they had a ton of pop-up testing sites after the protests and encouraged anyone who'd been to one to get tested - free of charge, no doctor's note.  I think they were expecting a surge from them and we're trying to get ahead of it, but as someone upthread pointed out, while it was a bit higher than the general testing pool, it was still only 2.5%.  And because there was proactive testing, those people,  hopefully are now quarantining rather than spreading it further.

MA has one of the highest testing rates in the country. We're also serious about contact tracing (by gumshoe methods , not tech)

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9 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I don't know.  I'm in one of the most liberal parts of the country, and our local government has been clear that they both support the protests and are watching carefully from the beginning, way before there was anyway of seeing changes.   I'd say that the fact that places like Minnesota and Massachusetts and Washington, DC are doing widespread testing is a sign that they're not putting politics ahead of safety.  

 

I'm sorry, but if they're willing to put it on a CA state website as a reason why, I'm going to believe them. You guys can refuse to believe the people on the ground here all you want, but I believe them. There is absolutely no way they would put that on there if they hadn't traced a number of cases in their county back to protests. Also, just because they're not saying people from protests in other places have been infected it doesn't mean they really haven't. 

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3 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

I'm sorry, but if they're willing to put it on a CA state website as a reason why, I'm going to believe them. You guys can refuse to believe the people on the ground here all you want, but I believe them. There is absolutely no way they would put that on there if they hadn't traced a number of cases in their county back to protests. Also, just because they're not saying people from protests in other places have been infected it doesn't mean they really haven't. 

Put what on the website?  I'm saying that the most liberal areas of the country all believe that this could cause a spike.   That's why they've been testing and looking for it.  If they wanted to support some political agenda they'd be hiding it, as is happening in other situations, but they aren't.  

I just think it's too early for us to know conclusively how this is going to turn out.  I'm sure there will be cases.  There have been cases from police and National guardsmen who were more likely to be unmasked.  There will certainly be cases from jail cells.  Maybe with testing we'll stay on top of it, I can hope for that, but I think it's likely that we won't. 

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48 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Hmm interesting.

maybe the number of cases from protests are offset by the number of people not trying to go anywhere because it was too hard with the protests going on.  Could that be a thing?


Here’s a news article.  The testing sites set up specifically for protesters have a lower positive rate than the general population. Experts are attributing it to being outside, moving around, and wearing masks.  
 

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5 hours ago, Joker said:

You guys, I’m now supposed to pick up my sister, who’s coming from a hot spot, from the airport Friday because she wants to stay with my mom for a few days. My mom will have just been released from the hospital after having major surgery. I’ll be taking and picking up both of them - one to and from the hospital and the other the airport.  Both just laugh at me when I raise concerns. 😳 Am I crazy for thinking this is a bad idea? To be clear, I’m most concerned about my 70 year old mother. 
 

ETA: Will it help me at all if I am the only one wearing a mask when I pick my sister up? We’ll be in the car together for about 30-45 minutes. I know from FB that she didn’t mask and goes out a lot. Ugghhh!

Does your state government have any regulations about folks having to quarantine when coming from certain hotspot states? Perhaps if it does, you could refer them to the web page?

I understand your mom saying she doesn’t care, but it seems rather irresponsible of your sister. 

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1 hour ago, Danae said:

Minneapolis is not increasing. If the protests have an effect it should hit here first, and so far it has not.  

I don’t think that would necessarily be true.  With an exponential growth curve I would think it would depend on how many infected people were in the crowd...not as many infected it would take longer to double and be noticed.  Protests in a city where there were more infected people in the crowd would make a more noticeable surge in a shorter period of time.  

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1 hour ago, Danae said:

Minneapolis is not increasing. If the protests have an effect it should hit here first, and so far it has not.  

 

I don’t see specifics on Minneapolis, but Hennepin County seems to have gone up since last week.

 

 Though it is still below its all time high for daily new cases, and for daily new deaths, the trend still seems 5% up from last week for cases, 2% up for deaths.  ???

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2 hours ago, Danae said:

Minneapolis is not increasing. If the protests have an effect it should hit here first, and so far it has not.  

NY is also not increasing, and it had lots of protests.

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7 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

I don’t think that would necessarily be true.  With an exponential growth curve I would think it would depend on how many infected people were in the crowd...not as many infected it would take longer to double and be noticed.  Protests in a city where there were more infected people in the crowd would make a more noticeable surge in a shorter period of time.  

But the point is that the biggest drivers of spread seem to be superspreader events, and those do not seem to be happening outside. 

I imagine some people did catch it at a protest, but it doesn’t seem like it’s enough to really drive numbers up. And in NY, the protests were largely happening in the more infected boroughs, too.

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27 minutes ago, square_25 said:

But the point is that the biggest drivers of spread seem to be superspreader events, and those do not seem to be happening outside. 

I imagine some people did catch it at a protest, but it doesn’t seem like it’s enough to really drive numbers up. And in NY, the protests were largely happening in the more infected boroughs, too.

I just think it's too early to tell.  We know from the water that things were going on in Italy months before the first case. 

I want to believe that outside is safe, because I want to go outside and play.  I want to believe that the protesters were protected by their masks, because I don't want anyone sick.  But I think that it's dangerous for us to draw conclusions, just like it was dangerous for us to look at the states that opened up in May a few weeks ago and draw conclusions.  The patterns take time to show up.

Now, do I believe there's reason to believe that they might be safer?  Yeah.  I'm more optimistic about the protesters than about the Trump voters who were indoors.  But it's a very cautious optimism.

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Does anyone know if this is correct? 

 

The US performed 602,947 new tests today June 26th. In April performing at most about 200,000 tests per day.

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3 hours ago, Joker said:

picking her up out of love and respect for my mom

Sounds like she should get an Uber.

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7 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Does anyone know if this is correct? 

 

The US performed 602,947 new tests today June 26th. In April performing at most about 200,000 tests per day.

I don't know, but that's mind boggling. 

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Okay, and sorry for another question, but can anyone tell what the source of these graphs is?

 

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4 hours ago, PeterPan said:
4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Yeah, think about it. CNN is trying so hard to say that people sitting staggered tables apart (way farther than 6') and chewing their steak quietly is killing us all but riots with thousands of people jammed on each other with stupid paper masks had zero effect. 

Well, hopefully we’ll find the “stupid paper masks” ended up being really helpful and prevented big spikes. I have been pretty concerned about what effect the protests were going to have, but locally they are finding protestors being tested are having a lower positivity rate than the general public. Strange, but true. Which is what makes it seem that outdoors plus masks helps a whole lot. I’ve seen many other cities have found the same. Sounds like Emse says that may not be the case near her, so it would be interesting to see the difference between protests that resulted in infections and that news that didn’t. 

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think the masks would help but the footage of many of the protestors I saw  not all wore masks and did involve a lot of shouting.  It’s hard to see how that didn’t have an impact.  Plus the secondary impact to me of people seeing it and thinking ok well it’s over anyway and going back to normal.

i hope it’s ok to think it’s completely understandable why the protests were happening and still wish there’d been a safer way...

I relate to the bolded. Around me, protests were very well masked, but I still worried. I’ve been relieved to see that so far it hasn’t looked to increase case numbers here. 
 

That’s still a different thing than eating indoors. At this point, indoors without masks appears quite risky. Particularly for the length of time a meal takes. 

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7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I don’t see specifics on Minneapolis, but Hennepin County seems to have gone up since last week.

 

 Though it is still below its all time high for daily new cases, and for daily new deaths, the trend still seems 5% up from last week for cases, 2% up for deaths.  ???

Superspreader event traced to two bars.  https://www.startribune.com/four-bars-help-fuel-minnesota-s-covid-19-surge-among-young-adults/571504962/
 

I’m encouraged that contact tracing seems to be more robust than I knew. I hadn’t heard much about it ramping up here.  There was a bigger flare traced to two bars in Mankato (smallish city) that spread into one of the daycare centers. That’s going to be very disruptive.

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1 hour ago, Danae said:

I’m encouraged that contact tracing seems to be more robust than I knew.

A friend of mine got a call from a contract tracer 12 days after her exposure. 

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